I've seen alot of nice engines lately. Trying to decide what I want to start building. I want a greatly streetable car in the very very low 11's prefferably mid-high 10's. Many ways to do this. I've seen a couple 355's one that didnt run on gas, and the other had a 6-71 supercharger on it. A 355, is a bored out 350? Then we have the 454's which are heavier but supposedly easier to achieve power. Im either thinking of building my own 454 which would be great fun and a good learning experience. Or buying a 502 from OPG. What would you guys do?

It would defininately be easier to do with at BB of some sort. Although I wouldn't buy an engine from OPG.

355 = 350 + .060 over.

Actually Adman, a 355 is a 350 bored .030" over, a 350 + .060" bore = 360 cubes.

Pick a budget, and remember that actual dragstrip e.t. is a factor of:
1) Power to weight this is the oldest of truths, so put your car on as much of a diet as you can - or bring more power to the party.
2) Chassis and suspension setup - a 10 second car will only be a 12 second car if the suspension does not allow for an efficient transfer of power off the line.
3) Torque converter selection. What not a lot of racers might admit to is how many torque converters they have experimented with to find the "perfect" one for their combo.

I probably would not reccomend building a 10 second car of any kind as your first hot rod - what is your track experience? Maybe you are a naturally talented drag racer, but over the years I've seen too many first time builders make serious driving errors when starting out at that acceleration level.

Thomas

Whats wrong with buying an engine from OPG? It seems like they have a good selection of engines. Actually theres a machine shop in town that makes some nice stuff, but again, I really want to build something myself. Ive rebuilt a few engines, and toyed with a good ammount of parts. I havent really hit up the track much yet.
Also, my 350 now is a 2 bolt is it tricky to add a 4 bolt engine in? It's going to be a 1/8 of the time drag car, not very much at all. I just need the power behind the wheel :D I think I should find a bare 454 block someplace....

OPG is just selling motors that the General sells,but at a higher price...cut the middleman out,and go to GM direct if you're going to buy a crate motor.

"Greatly Streetable" and 10's.

Build a very stout bottom end 454 with a moderate hydraulic roller and a 250 shot of nitrous and 3.55 gears.

Or go big Cubic Inch.

I tried 3 converters in 6 weeks to get it where I wanted it. 4200 to 4400 flash.

Pnut, first, mid 10's and highly streetable from my view arent really going to be the same motor no matter what you do. If you want no maintaince, a smooth idle, a quiet car, or no roll cage to have to climb over, forget about it. If your fine with loosing creature comforts, and dropping some serious coin on a loud, lopey motor, proceed. No matter wich way you go, a SB or BB, neither are going to be cheap. At that level, pretty much everything in the motor will be aftermarket for power or insurance sake. And id highly suggest you find a person whose done this type of motor before and will help you with every little detail. This also isnt a plastigauge and bolt together deal. I was lucky to have my next door neighbor help me out with the bottom end last spring, and measuring all my clearances,as hes done a whole bunch of performance SBC's. Good luck what ever you decide to do

Please consider a 496 motor b/c it will make alotta power and isn't all that much more then a 468 if your core 454 motor needs a crank!!

I have about $3800 to $4000 in mine that per D2K should make right at 550hp at 5500rpm and 580t at 4500rpm. And that includes a set of new cast-iron Merlin oval port heads

I just call it my great big "tow-truck" motor. I know it's a sim. program estimate but what the hey, anything close to that level of power sounds good to me!!

Plus, I'm just a cam change from the good old CC 282S solid cam to a CC 288AR street solid roller cam to come up with more power.

You mentioned you wanted to build it so to me this is a very good bang for the buck, imho...

pdq67

Thats a learning lesson thomas (bomber 67)!!!!!!! graemlins/beers.gif ,
And how your doing in the SOCAL? graemlins/thumbsup.gif
Talk to you later!!!!!!!

EDDY merlin

Yeah I dont mind working on it but i dont want a high maitinance engine in the future. I like superchargers :D I think I will go with a 454/496 though. I think that might be a safe bet. Thanks guys, let me know if youve got anymore info.

Phil,
I don't want to question your knowelege or back ground, but do you know how fast a 10 second car is ?

I'm telling you a 12 second street car is a crazy fast street car, and more than enough to get way outta shape in.

Seeing the number of guys on this site, that have 10 second street cars, may have skewed your perception, of just what a 10 second car is.

A 9 second car needs a drag chute and a NHRA license to compete legally.

A 10 second car requires a (I think) 10 point cage.

I have a thirteen second car, and I now have a 12 second car, and I want to practice with the 12 second car, before I even try for 11s.

Guys like Todd, Ken, and Tom, have payed dues, and learned a lot of lessons on the way to their 10 second cars.

I don't think its easy, or everybody would be doing it.

PDQ67; you must have that response cut and pasted somewhere in your computer! that must be the 20th time i have heard it;
"Please consider building another response!" tongue.gif ;) No really; PDQ67 suggests a good thing; 496. Except in my opinion i wouldn't go with such a small cam or heads, but the cubic inches would work well, and you can do it for fairly cheap

Originally posted by Adman:
It would defininately be easier to do with at BB of some sort. Although I wouldn't buy an engine from OPG.

355 = 350 + .060 over. I thought it was +.030 for a 355...

build a nice low 12 sec street car from a mild bbc and squeeze that sucker down into the 10's on nitrous.

i have built and driven many cars and i can say 12 sec for a street car is plenty fast. a 12 sec street machine is nothing to be ever ashamed of.

i have in the past driven my car to the track on street tires with exhaust still on and ran down the 1/4 mile posting low 12's at 110 mph go back to the pit throw some slicks on and drop the exhaust and squeezing 175 hp shot of nitrous to high 10's...........

i think this would be the easiest. and it can be done for cheap. granted i have done this with out roll bars and saftey equitment.......but it was for just pure bragging rights to say it can run 10's............

i built a bigger engine for a honest 10 sec street car, it is far more radical set up. that is why i retired my 81 camaro from the streets and it is now just a drag car. the 468 motor was just plain stupid fast for the streets even without the nitrous.it runs in the 10's now without nitrous. and i use to drive it on the streets.it wasnt practical for anything but to rumble around town and try to advoid the cops.............it was pretty much a tire fryer at this level............anything under 50 mile per hour you could roast the rear hides hard............

a 12 sec car isnt bad on the streets you can still drive down the highway and get fair gas mileage 12 or so........and you can smoke about anything that comes your way.........besides if a race is to close you can always hit the nitrous to edge them out.......

but this is from an old school stand point..........im sure you could build something smoother with a turbo and more electronics..............

I am going through a delima with what to do about a motor combination in the wife's 66. A few weeks ago I we had decided to go with a drivetrain out of a 87 Buick GN but she really wants the big block/ 5 speed in it. My first thoughts to consider as well as anyone is what are the intentions with the car. Ours has no cage so the clocks stop at 11.50. As I understand it even a lot of the outlaw IHRA tracks have really been cracking down on this. Street racing is too much of a liability in today's times so picking a fight on the street is not part of the program for this ride. I was originally going to build a 540 then I decided to go with a 496 but now I am wondering if I even need that. the car had a 427 in it and I am wondering where that could lead me. I did purchase a head itake combo off of a pretty stout car a few months ago so I know the top of the motor is pretty much taken care of. Where have you guys been buying your rotating assemblies for the 496 from? I have looked at speedomotive and Doug Herbert. All the prices seem to be abou the same. Plus, I talked to Richmond gear last week about my 4+1 5 speed and asked him about the Torque limits on it. I was basically told if you thrash it out the gate with sticky tires and a motor making 500-550lbs of torque, you are gonna have problems.

How bout this combo, super streetable, works for me!!

http://www.chevelles.com/ads/photoads/emanuele/index.html

Originally posted by scotty:
How bout this combo, super streetable, works for me!!

http://www.chevelles.com/ads/photoads/emanuele/index.html Coming from someone driving a 10 second car, I can tell you first hand there's nothing at all streetable about a 5,000RPM stall converter and 4.11 gears.

Less Weight or more Horsepower........which is the best way to go.......My Street/Drag Toy is a good example of this topic......my combo has 350 c.i.,Forged Pistons,ZZZ cam, Fast Burn Aluminum heads,Dual Plane, B.G. Speed Demon,Spraying 150 H.P., 700R4 / Overdrive, 3.90 posi, Cal-Tracs,Hooker Headers, and 3 years of tweaking the suspension etc.........best E.T. on little (26" dia.) 235-60 BFG Drag Radials....11.22@120 mph.....getting static at the track about not having a cage .......very streetable combo :cool:Ken http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/SS396Convert/nova.jpg Ken

Originally posted by kjett:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by scotty:
How bout this combo, super streetable, works for me!!

http://www.chevelles.com/ads/photoads/emanuele/index.html Coming from someone driving a 10 second car, I can tell you first hand there's nothing at all streetable about a 5,000RPM stall converter and 4.11 gears. </font>[/QUOTE]AMEN Brother !!!

Impressive combos :D I bet it took lots of hours of time and tuning, not too mention some cash for all the goods. Im going to start building my 454 soon, hence even HAVING a block yet. But im lookin', and going to build it for mid-low 11's I think....

I drive the car with no problems. And honestly the car drives better with my high dollar 9" 5000 stall converter then it did with a 10" 3000 rpm TCI converter. Unless you floor it you can't even tell, it drives like it did with a stock converter. I never drive the freeway so the 4:10 gears are no big deal. I just don't have the money for a 4L80 yet. Someday!!! Also, everyones opinion on "streetable" is different. It is a pump gas (93 octane) motor only. I can just turn the key in any weather and it fires up instantly, it idles perfect, no holding your foot on the gas for 2 minutes when it's cool out like most peoples "streetable" cars. Nuff said!

Originally posted by scotty:
I drive the car with no problems. And honestly the car drives better with my high dollar 9" 5000 stall converter then it did with a 10" 3000 rpm TCI converter. Unless you floor it you can't even tell, it drives like it did with a stock converter. I never drive the freeway so the 4:10 gears are no big deal. I just don't have the money for a 4L80 yet. Someday!!! Also, everyones opinion on "streetable" is different. It is a pump gas (93 octane) motor only. I can just turn the key in any weather and it fires up instantly, it idles perfect, no holding your foot on the gas for 2 minutes when it's cool out like most peoples "streetable" cars. Nuff said! You have an impressive car and I'm glad you feel it's streetable. That said, low 11's ain't 10.60 and when I was was visiting the in-laws on vacation in Whitewater, Wisconsin two years I didn't see any Atlanta style traffic or mountainous grades tongue.gif You're right, everyone's opinion of streeetable IS different. Nuff' said!

I'd stick with a sbc over bbc.This will keep the cost down.I just finished my bbc it looks good between the fenders But I really like sbc. I put togather a 406sbc years ago 2 bolt main studed 492 heads solid flat tappet cam vic jr. 850dp and a little spray in it. Car ran 10.20@134 3400lbs car. Motor still lives 6 years later. The best thing about is I only had $4000 in it.

pnutkemist, if your gonna build a BB, I have got to say the BSE combo is the ticket. You will run 12's easy. Drive it anywhere. Have you any friends with a true 12 second car you could take a spin in??? Crazy fast for a real street car. 10's is a different story. That be a sure fired RACE CAR. :eek:

Ultimatly, he needs to look at a large cube combination. Something in the 420-480 c.i. range. It also needs to run a head( if its a small block) that will flow at least 310/240 cfm at .600-.700 lift. Depending on his car weight and if he will run slicks, a motor like mine can run mid 10's. You have to keep in mind, my combination was run with an air cleaner, 17" low profile drag radials, and a car weighing 3850 with me in it. A lighter car, say 3500lb, slicks or E.T. streets and drag wheels up front, Should easily run 10.60-10.70 all day. My car went 123 mph, with a lighter combo that is a mid 10 second motor(with traction of course).

Scott,does your car have a cage? Impressive numbers for sure..

Thanks. No, the care does not have any kind of cage. It has all the other safety equipment like safety loop, axles, studs, SFI flexplate. It could use a scatter shield though. That would be a nice piece of mind. I never put a cage in the car because it was built to live its life on the street and a cage just isn't real people friendly. And there is no way I could get a child seat in the back with the cage. The car drives like its on rails with the wheel and tire combination, and never gets out of control. Actually if someone didn't know any better, you'd say it was a 12-13 second ride by how smooth it drives. :D

Just a little clarification to a previous post regarding 10sec car needing a 10pt cage. As long as original firewall and stock floorpan is intact only have to have a roll bar. Cut up the floor or alter firewall then you graduate to 12pt! Agree that a 10sec. can be driven on the street as mine is licensed but that doesn't mean its really all that streetable. Sure if I want to burn up my transmission and can make it to the next gas station that sells racing gas you could call that streetable. The point is these guys are right to say a 12sec car would be much more streetable and enjoyable as well as burning all the rubber you could possibly afford! :D

Originally posted by scotty:
I drive the car with no problems. And honestly the car drives better with my high dollar 9" 5000 stall converter then it did with a 10" 3000 rpm TCI converter. Unless you floor it you can't even tell, it drives like it did with a stock converter. I never drive the freeway so the 4:10 gears are no big deal. I just don't have the money for a 4L80 yet. Someday!!! Also, everyones opinion on "streetable" is different. It is a pump gas (93 octane) motor only. I can just turn the key in any weather and it fires up instantly, it idles perfect, no holding your foot on the gas for 2 minutes when it's cool out like most peoples "streetable" cars. Nuff said! Definately is just a matter of opinion as to what streetable really is. I've been in a chevelle numerous times that has a 9" 4800 stall Coan converter, and it has no drivability problems on the street - at least nothing that I would consider a drivability problem. It tachs up a bit going up hills, but stoplight to stoplight in traffic it does fine, and has nice throttle response around town.

My converter will stall ~4600 once I get it up and running, and I'm not concerned in the least bit about drivability problems. Although I do have 4.56 gears :eek: Put a big tranny cooler on it and drive!

A cage is nice because it's possible to get into a bind quickly. As far as a trans goes. Take mine for instance, it is a hipster built T400 that is a purpose built trans for super street class. The downside is price and horespower loss .The line pressure in a trans like this is very high and will take much more power to run. This means you put less power to the ground. BUT, the trans will last a LONG time in a street car. Behind my motor the trans still performs perfectly! I agree, race gas has no place in a street car, based on the extreme high cost. Especially at $4-8 per gallon!

It seems to me personally making big cubic inches is a simple way to go for power.

This doesn't have anything to do with ETs or anything, but in my opinion something worth considering, but would you rather have someone ask you to open your hood and they see a smallblock and you have to explain to them what it is and why its fast, or open your hood and have them see a big block and smile...

:DThis doesn't have anything to do with ETs or anything, but in my opinion something worth considering, but would you rather have someone ask you to open your hood and they see a smallblock and you have to explain to them what it is and why its fast, or open your hood and have them see a big block and smile...
This is exactly why my ride now has a bbc :D . I put togather a 406sbc years ago 2 bolt main studed 492 heads solid flat tappet cam vic jr. 850dp and a little spray in it. Car ran 10.20@134 3400lbs car. Motor still lives 6 years later. The best thing about is I only had $4000 in it.This combo had 4spd and 4.56 gears so that elimated the annoying typical 4500 stall. I drove 2 hrs to the track and 2 back cruising at about 55mph.Now thats my definition of a 10 sec street car.

--------------------

Nobody has asked the question yet, how much money do you have to build this? If you only have say $3000 then your only real choice for those kind of ET's are a super stout bottem end 454 and NOS.

if he's considering a Crate 502, he's way over $3k already.

I went with a big cubic inch motor after my 350 died out a little while ago;

454 with a 4.25" stroker crank, .100 overbore = 505". With the setup I have now I make 593hp at 5400/5500 rpms and 646 ft/lbs at 4100 rpms, with 10.5 compression it runs on 93 (actually was dynoed on 91) and is going in my daily driver '71 Monte Carlo. With the hyd. ft. cam theres pretty much no maitenance and the engine should be very streetable. My goal after some tuning is somewhere in the 11's hopefully mid-low 11's. But then again it was nowhere near cheap for the whole project :rolleyes: