I need recommendations for a big block set of headers. I want 2" primaries w/ a 3"+ collector. Also, i found that ppl liked the Dynomax coated headers, but i have been unable to locate the part #'s Any help would be appreciated graemlins/hurray.gif

396 bbc anything...........stay away from 2" and bigger headers.......

427 and 454 2" headers seam to cover about any combo for street duty.........even thou the 1 7/8" would benifit alot of them with more low torque. specially the 427 ci.

Why do you need 2" primary/3" + collector headers?
Theres 10 second combos that don't run that size that are over 600 HP..

The only reason i need those size pipes is because that's what is on it. :rolleyes:
The headers were on the motor when i bought it, and so far ive had the heads (rectangle port) ported heavily (im not sure on the #'s off hand). I've installed a comp magnum 294S solid cam (original was 302H magnum, I think the guy said), and it came with a 950 holley carb with an 67 L-88 vette intake. It has roughly a little over 10:1 compression. If i can get by with smaller headers, i would be pleased graemlins/beers.gif

Mr. 4spd, why do you run an auto? If I am correct your race page in the spec section says you run an auto? My M-22 rocks, wouldn't trade it for the world, and suprisingly enough it's held together at 4500rpm dumps behind the bb. 4:10's and et streets

later guys graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Originally posted by 1BAD70SS:
Mr. 4spd, why do you run an auto?..because thats what the car came with,and I doubt I would be able to run high 12's with a stick and 2.73's..when I originally "coined" my user name 5 years ago,I owned three 4 speed cars at the time-can't change it now..but,I can still powershift with the best of 'em smile.gif

68 SS454,sounds like you got a nice motor there graemlins/thumbsup.gif
Heres the part # for the coated Dynomax headers,but they're the smaller tubes http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=WLK%2D86110

and the coated Hookers,with 2" primary/3.5" collectors
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=HOK%2D2455%2D1

If the new headers aren't the same primary length, the street hook ups won't work anyway. I would try to find the best fitting header with 1-3/4" - 2" primaries that I could afford and let it go from there. On a 468, I would definitely consider that a crosoover point for needing 2" headers. Unlike a 408 - 427, giving up 15 - 20 ftlbs of trq at 2000 rpm, you won't even miss it.

Chris
how about the Headmans, would they also be a good fit? I heard they are for 66s & 67s. I hope they are as I'm looking at getting a set for my 66
John 66 graemlins/beers.gif

Anyone got any recommendations on which brands are good and which ones to stay away from? Ive heard both good and bad things about headman, and my current headers bump the frame and cause a hell of a vibration.

i had the Hooker S/C's on my 454 they were 2" primaries with a 3 1/2" collector. you would just need to get a reducer to go down to 3".
my opinion on the header issue is that any big block chevelle running in the 10's making over 600hp with 1 3/4" headers would pick up considerably by going with 2" headers. shoot, most street strip 406's pick up quite a bit when ditching the 1 5/8" headers for 1 3/4" headers, so i find it hard to believe that a 468 couldn't take advantage of larger than 1 3/4" headers. my car weighed just a shade under 4000lbs with driver and it cut high 1.50 60ft times with those torque robbing 2" Hookers. :rolleyes: and it had a lousy B&M Torkmaster 3000 behind it. with a good convertor tailored to my combo it would have probably gotten at least low 1.50's if not high 1.40's in the 60fters. another thing that i see is why would you put the 1.88 exhaust valves in the heads then run a header tube that is considerably smaller? seems like a power robbing restriction to me. sure there are guys going fast with the smaller headers, but i wonder what would happen if they stepped up to the bigger headers? my guess is they would probably pick up power everywhere, especially above 3000rpms and if you are racing or have a hipo street motor you probably come out higher than that off of the convertor anyway. it might suffer some gas milage at cruising speeds, but who cares? if you're running a bbc you can't be to concerned with mpg anyway, can you? ;)

m71,with all due respect..these guys running mid 10's with 1 3/4" primary tube headers would be running bigger headers if they where worth ANYTHING,and believe me,the guys I know have tried them.When you're at the power/ET level,$150 for a pair of Hooker Competition 2" primary/3.5" collector headers is cheap,but there is no power/ET gain to be found-period.

Gas milage?? Naw. 16.4 mpg steady cruise 2950 rpms, 2" Hooker Comps.But that is witha X crossover, which decidedly helped low rpm smoothness. Not saying they're best ET wise.

The peak header torque with 2" primaries in a 433 is 5200 rpm. So clearly its a motor that should be seeing better than 7000 rpms to use them at all. And you will give some up down low. Most 500 hp sub-6000 rpm motors are better tuned with the smaller pipes.

Not quite the same conditions but...
During my 540's dyno session last Nov., I had the opportunity to run back to back pulls with TWO different sized headers...both made by Hooker...one set of 2 1/8" with 3 1/2" collectors AND a set of 2 1/4" with 3 1/2".
All the larger headers did was shift peak HP and TQ up around 400 rpms...no substantial increase or loss in either.
Got the dyno sheets to prove this...
The 2 1/8" set will go in the Chevelle.

primary tube length is more of a factor than diameter of the tubes, as far as torque is concerned, IMO. on the contrary to your info MR4Speed, i have seen the opposite to be true. if we were talking about a 396/402 then i would agree 100% with the 1 3/4" headers, but i've seen too many 454's and larger engines pick up 30-40hp with the 2" tubes, and some even more power when they stepped up from 2" tubes to 2 1/8" tubes, depending on how radical the engine was. are you sure the guys you are talking about don't run stepped headers and not just plain jane 1 3/4" headers?

Malibu71...exhaust gas doesnt flow like water,only once every engine revolution does exhaust gas go into that smaller than valve diameter tube, its not like the exhaust gases can't get out of the cylinder. With a heavy street/strip car you need all the torque you can get down low in the rpm range to get it moving,and thats what the smaller tubes do,move the peak torque down in the rpm range. Ed runs mid low 10's with the same dynomax coated headers that I'm using 1.75 x 3...468 shifted at 62-6500...1.3-low 1.4 60ft times...thats what torque in the lower rpm range does for you. Now if that same motor was in a 2000 lb dragster it would be a different story.

M71, and I'm not challenging you, but the 'peak header torque' calculations I saw and used, all involved only the cross-sectional area of the tube. Dr Gas did mention that a larger longer collector ( and my collectors are effectively very long) aided low end torque. And they did as the X pipe install really adided 'off stoplight' torque and the engine gained almost 1" of idle vacuum.

For the record, I was calcualting proper header torque for a 4500-7500 rpm L88 OR an eventual conversion to a 510" bbc. So clearly 2" was the proper size.

I won't change them now until somebody proves that the difference is not marginal, which I suspect it is. And it isnt a drag car fixated on ET. But I am curious as to the ET difference between an incorrect 2" and a 'correct' 1.75" foir a 3500-6800 439 ci engine.

i would like to see whoever this ED guy is try a larger set of headers. to run those quick of 60ft times he must be coming out around 4500+, in which case i don't see how a larger tube header couldn't help it. i can see that they would help you below 3000, but if you're launching at a much higher rpm how do they benefit you?

Originally posted by m71:
on the contrary to your info MR4Speed, i have seen the opposite to be true. if we were talking about a 396/402 then i would agree 100% with the 1 3/4" headers, but i've seen too many 454's and larger engines pick up 30-40hp with the 2" tubes, and some even more power when they stepped up from 2" tubes to 2 1/8" tubes, depending on how radical the engine was. are you sure the guys you are talking about don't run stepped headers and not just plain jane 1 3/4" headers? With all due respect,All I see you doing is posting a bunch of #'s,NOT real world results or ET gains..individuals that theorize and spread info on what they read that have NO actual experience with the EXACT details on hand hurt this hobby the most..and yes,the experienced guys I know are NOT running stepped headers..the part # is WLK-86110 for the headers I speak of.What experience do you have with a mid 10 second,3900 lb. Chevelle powered by a big block that has picked up ET from swapping 1 3/4" tube headers to 2" primary tube headers? Thats all I'm asking..

Hey, Ed and I aren't friends, too much trouble between us, BUT, he is a very good SCIENTIFIC bracket racer. If 2" tubes would give a better ET, I'm sure he would have used them. I don't know if he ever tried them, and he might not admit to it anyway. But, since his game is all in the short time, bigger pipes won't help.

I know my little street mill lost "off stoplight" torque when I put new 2" Hookers on vs the rusted POS small tubes the car came with.

For a second opinion, theres a nice website www.headerdesign.com (http://www.headerdesign.com) I beleive.

For the record, dyno numbers dont mean jackcrap to me, and many others. Not empirically translatable in a live chassis. Further, I SUSPECT ( meaning don't rightly know) that 2" pipes will give better dyno number, peak HP etc. Again, not 'real-world' performance in a chassis loaded down with equiptment and a full exhaust.

Again, I'd be curious as to a real live ET comparo, taking into consideration the motor's operating range.

Anyone got one?

Well said Gene..

..and with that in mind..heres some real world performance with 1 3/4" headers doing their thing they do best...

http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/TEMPwheelsup.jpg

..and what they do best is to make a heavy Chevelle ET the best by maximizing the torque and hp in the operating range where a heavy car needs it the most..
graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Anyone have the part #'s for those headers for a 68 chevelle? Thanks! :D

Originally posted by 68SS454:
Anyone have the part #'s for those headers for a 68 chevelle? Thanks! :D http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=WLK%2D86110

Those are for a Camaro though, aren't they? :confused:

Originally posted by 68SS454:
Those are for a Camaro though, aren't they? :confused: ..yes,and a Chevelle..etc
please read the application listing smile.gif

applications for WLK-86110

Make Model Engine Year
CHEVROLET CAMARO 396 1970 - 1981
CHEVROLET CAMARO 402 1970 - 1981
CHEVROLET CAMARO 427 1970 - 1981
CHEVROLET CAMARO 454 1970 - 1981
CHEVROLET CAMARO Z28 396 1970 - 1981
CHEVROLET CAMARO Z28 402 1970 - 1981
CHEVROLET CAMARO Z28 427 1970 - 1981
CHEVROLET CAMARO Z28 454 1970 - 1981
CHEVROLET CHEVELLE 396 1964 - 1977
CHEVROLET CHEVELLE 402 1964 - 1977
CHEVROLET CHEVELLE 427 1964 - 1977
CHEVROLET CHEVELLE 454 1964 - 1977
CHEVROLET EL CAMINO 396 1964 - 1977
CHEVROLET EL CAMINO 402 1964 - 1977
CHEVROLET EL CAMINO 427 1964 - 1977
CHEVROLET EL CAMINO 454 1964 - 1977
PONTIAC FIREBIRD 396 1970 - 1981
PONTIAC FIREBIRD 402 1970 - 1981
PONTIAC FIREBIRD 427 1970 - 1981
PONTIAC FIREBIRD 454 1970 - 1981
PONTIAC TRANS AM 396 1970 - 1981
PONTIAC TRANS AM 402 1970 - 1981
PONTIAC TRANS AM 427 1970 - 1981
PONTIAC TRANS AM 454 1970 - 1981

well i guess until someone can give us a head to head comparison on more than one different combo then we'll just have to keep on doing what we think works best for ourselves. all the cars i'm around are not bracket racers, they are heads up racers. and for the street i don't disagree with the small tube designs, nor for a 396/402 of about any type, but i will have to have it proven to me head to head that they work better on a car that launches above 3500rpms at the track. MR4speed, i notice your car runs high 12's with a 454 in it? and you're asking me about my experience? i ran slightly quicker times than that with a bone stock dish piston 400sbc in my 71 Chevelle which i've owned since 1987. stock heads, GK 288 .480 cam, rpm intake, 3.55 gears, 10" convertor. i'm not spreading disinformation, and though i'm not an engineering genious, i'm not an idiot either. i've been around racing all my life. so please don't cheap shot me with those type of remarks, m'kay?

Yeah, I know. I'd love to see a back-to-back by a good consistent bracket car to really see what all the fuss is about. Trouble with 67s is, those headers mentioned fit like crap, I've been told. Mine came with old Blackjacks I beleive. The 2" Hookers fit so much better. Plug access is mint. Like to know what, if anything, I'm losing.

Originally posted by m71:
MR4speed, i notice your car runs high 12's with a 454 in it? and you're asking me about my experience? i ran slightly quicker times than so please don't cheap shot me with those type of remarks, m'kay? Guess You didn't notice I run high 12's with 2.73's tongue.gif

..and I never took any "cheap" shots at your ET either-such as You are to me!

Originally posted by m71:
my opinion on the header issue is that any big block chevelle running in the 10's making over 600hp with 1 3/4" headers would pick up considerably by going with 2" headers..remember you said "my opinion"..not "In my racing experience,I swapped small tubes headers for large tube headers and picked up ET and MPH"

Originally posted by m71:
i'm not spreading disinformationYes You are,unless you have a timeslip to prove anything between small tubes vs. large tubes.Remember,you said in my opinion
If you had actual data,it wouldn't be your opinion now would it? It would be actual data and fact..I'm not making any "cheap" shots,I'm asking you for data,and all you have is your opinion..

i guess maybe i've missed something here. where is the proof that the 2" headers would slow down a car making over 600hp launching at say 4500rpms with the 1 3/4" headers? i respect the fact that the fellas you refer to are running that quick with 1 3/4" headers, but where's the proof that they ran a heads up test against the 2" or any other size headers for that matter? all you have are your words. my experience has come from a couple of 427's in street/strip cars and the rest has been from truck pulling motors. and one of the 427's was fairly mild and it picked up .2 in the 1/8mi by going from 1 7/8" headers to 2" tubes. this was only a low 11 sec 68 Camaro.
i apologize for my remark, but i felt your remark was directed at me (it sure seemed to be), no hard feelings? graemlins/beers.gif

I've talked to Ed about using larger headers...

It seems I recall he tried some 2" and lost ET but I don't recall exactly.

He has admitted however that his ride by calculation SHOULD be using 1 7/8" headers but since the 1 3/4" are working so well....

Which brings me to the subject...

who makes a 1 7/8" header for a BBC in a 68-72?

I've checked Hooker and Hedmans site and no luck.

Stahl still makes 1-7/8" big block headers. They are not priced like Summit or Jegs, but in my experience you get high quality with Stahl.

I enjoy reading posts where replies are made by people talking about what "others" have done. However, before anyone gets the idea that someone else has really figured it all out it could be that is just where their personal testing ended.

Actually I'm glad that some things, like the perfect header or engine combo, have not been completely scienced out. This way we can all still have some fun trying out our own ideas in an effort to run stronger than our competitors.

See you at the drags smile.gif

Thomas

M71,no hard feelings smile.gif

Originally posted by 427L88:
For the record, dyno numbers dont mean jackcrap to me, and many others. Sorry! :rolleyes:
I was just posting my personal recent experience on the subject at hand.
Never mind...

Bill,don't think Gene meant to be harsh in regards to your info..its always good to have real world #'s graemlins/thumbsup.gif

No Bill, I didnt mean you specifically, I meant saying something like " It made more HP on the Dyno, so therefore it will run a quicker ET".

As an AMATUER ( emphasis added), that seems like a too much of a logical jump.

Dude, I'm just sufferring from 'pen^^ envy'. Having a little 439, and only HP reckoning is that is probably does what the sticker on the aircleaner says. tongue.gif

Kidding. But seriously, its the dyno VS real track test that seems like you cannot make a causal link there, unless its , you know, my measly 435 hp vs your OUTSTANDING near 700 hp. Somehow, I think we can infer.....

John Hunt, yes, the Hedmans are the only ones I've heard fit the 66/7 chassis well. Stahl might too, but I can't spend $700 for a set of pipes, for maybe .15 sec in a total street ride that sees the strip half a dozen times a year.

As I've said before, the addition of an X pipe really aided off-idle ( i.e. street) performance with the new 2" pipe.

Long story short .... show me. If its something like .10 in ET, I think many would argue that easier plug access might be worth "losing" that in a street ride. Or maybe its a full 1/4 second, which becomes meaningful.

Try these:

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=SUM%2DG9010

Yeah,
Those are 1 3/4" and I was looking at them last night.
I'm seriously considering buying a set to cut up..
Anybody make a merge collector forthe 1 3/4"?

Seems Flowmaster's Scavenger collectors skip from 1 5/8" to 1 7/8".

Originally posted by mr 4 speed:
Bill,don't think Gene meant to be harsh in regards to your info..its always good to have real world #'s graemlins/thumbsup.gif Sorry...I must have misinterpreted the comments made. It's easy to do here sometime. redface.gif

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/1/1_4_32.gif

Chris,

Bring a set of 1 3/4's to the Track Rental in May, I'll try them out and do a 4 runs to 4 runs comparison on the same day within 4 hours. I have 2" primary Hooker Comps and 3" to the bumper.

My car right now is really consistent and flashes at 4400 to 4500...

Anyone Care to Loan out a set of 2 1/8's also?

Originally posted by mc71454:
Chris,

Bring a set of 1 3/4's to the Track Rental in May, I'll try them out and do a 4 runs to 4 runs comparison on the same day within 4 hours. I have 2" primary Hooker Comps and 3" to the bumper.

My car right now is really consistent and flashes at 4400 to 4500...

Anyone Care to Loan out a set of 2 1/8's also? Ahhh! Just what we need, a Team Chevelle Parts Test Day!! :D :D :D A whole day at the drags swapping parts for some real world info. :cool:

Is anyone here running stahl headers? My car came with a set of them in the trunk when I bought it, they are 1 7/8". I contacted stahl to research the part number and they said they were built for a 69 Impala? Hopefully the frame will be back together soon so I can do some test fitting to see if they'll work. I think the 1 7/8" will work good with the 468.

i know alot of you are agreeing with a 396/402 dont need big tube headers. and i was wanting to add some of my racing back ground with some real world result that mad me sick when i changed header sizes.

in steet trim my 81 camaro with 275/60-15 regular used radials and mufflers ran an awesome 12.18@110 mph with the rear tires wrinkled on the line with 1.72 60 ft. full throttle launch.(have a nice 8X10 pic on the wall) with a 396 .060 over 11.7 to 1 comp. 262/273 @ .050 with .561/.600 lift. ported oval heads,single plain intake 850 holley,4500 brake stall,3.70 gears running 1 3/4" cheap summit headers.

i changed the headers to some 2" primary tube headers i bought for 50 bucks with 3 1/2" collectors and my daily driver slowed down to 13.0's at 102 mph with no other changes!

i put my old headers back on and i was back down to my low 12's at 110 mph.

i tell you i noticed a HUGE lack of low end torque when i put on my headers made my bottom end real soggy....worst then it allready was.

i did some changes to the motor and changed my rear gears to 4.56 and i was running 11.80's at 115 mph. i tried the headers again. i should have known better.....but it slowed the car down too. with the same 2" headers. and i was turning 7200 rpms......the car was in the 12.60 range around 107 mph.......so off came the headers...and i sold them.....just way to big for a small "396"

i am now running the same summit brand headers on my 468 bbc and it has tons of bottom end torque. enough that it is causing me launch problems. my car just will not leave the line consistent.

my car launch and handle very well with the 396 bbc even when the nitrous was engage from the start line to shoot me into the 10.90 range at 123 mph mark.

but for some reason this 468 is just to much for my old set up. i'm not trying to say the summit 1 3/4" headers have everything to do with this........but im kinda thinking if cant straighten out my chasis set up..then maybe going to a larger tube header would help kill some of the bottom end torque to maybe allow me to leave just alittle softer.......

I have the Hooker Competitions on my '71 MC, 2" primaries and 3 1/2" collectors, the drivers side needed alot of banging, but the passenger side went in with no mods, but my friend said he had to smash the hell outta them on his '66 velle.

#5 tube usually needs a ding.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bomber '67:
[QB] Stahl still makes 1-7/8" big block headers. They are not priced like Summit or Jegs, but in my experience you get high quality with Stahl.


Holy s**t!!! I just checked out the prices on Stahl headers for my Camaro. Anywhere from $855 to $1520!! :eek:

LYK2ROC (good name), Stahl headers fit quite well and should last. After dealing with a lot of cheap ill fitting headers with plug change nightmares you may find that spending more upfront on quality pieces will be one of the better long term "bargains" you could have purchased. If you really want to scare yourself on header prices just go find your local custom header fabricator and pull up a chair while you get the quote.

Thomas

Originally posted by Bomber '67:
If you really want to scare yourself on header prices just go find your local custom header fabricator and pull up a chair while you get the quote.

Thomas Before you do that go price some caskets :D

Try Lemons Headers, Same high quality as Stahl and I believe 900 $ a set regardless of engine or chassis. http://www.lemonsheaders.com/

Originally posted by jakeshoe:
I've talked to Ed about using larger headers...

It seems I recall he tried some 2" and lost ET but I don't recall exactly.

He has admitted however that his ride by calculation SHOULD be using 1 7/8" headers but since the 1 3/4" are working so well....

Which brings me to the subject...

who makes a 1 7/8" header for a BBC in a 68-72?

I've checked Hooker and Hedmans site and no luck. I have a set of 1 7/8's Hooker Super Competition headers that will be for sale this spring. Only about 2 dozen passes... heck I have a set of 1 3/4s in the shed too... also hookers if I remember right.


You guys are all trying to make this way too easy. Just like cams different headers will work differently for different combos. For example a jump up on my buddy's 454NA from 1 3/4" to 1 7/8" yeilded 3 tenths. Got his 4600 lb. station wagon to a 12.0 ET. I wish I could remember the mph difference. One key to keep in mind here is he had a larger port sized Alum rectangle port head. IMO if you are runnning smaller ovals you would be fine with the smaller header... my personal theory that seems to work is gauge the primary size according to the head port size and vary it depending on if it has forced induction/nitrous and by engine displacement.

A nitrous combo obviously needs a bigger header then a N/A. I personally feel that for a street/strip and/or any heavy chevelle would like the smaller headers. 2" max for a nasty 454... otherwise I would go with the 1 7/8's.

I agree with Ed's old comment of just getting a set of cheap headers. Interesting comment I heard from a racer a while back... Hooker has NEVER done ANY engineering of any kind on any of their headers. All their designs are purchased. I also really wonder how long it has been and how much current exhaust theory was put into the headers on the shelves. Pretty much right now the only place header and exhaust theories are gonna help you is if you are building your own set of headers. I agree if you are going for an off the shelf set look for real world results, but bare in mind the differences in your combos may make the info useless. Also note that the most cruical area in the exhaust system is actually the collector itself.

Originally posted by jakeshoe:
Yeah,
Those are 1 3/4" and I was looking at them last night.
I'm seriously considering buying a set to cut up..
Anybody make a merge collector forthe 1 3/4"?

Seems Flowmaster's Scavenger collectors skip from 1 5/8" to 1 7/8". Jack Burns, IMO one of the best collectors money can buy http://www.burnsstainless.com/

Originally posted by jakeshoe:


Which brings me to the subject...

who makes a 1 7/8" header for a BBC in a 68-72?

I've checked Hooker and Hedmans site and no luck. Hooker has them and its on their site, their Super Comps. part# 2250HKR. They have a 3.5 collector

Originally posted by jakeshoe:
...who makes a 1 7/8" header for a BBC in a 68-72?...Jake, a lot of the Sanderson stuff is 1-7/8" - but I didn't check to see if they have your application.

Thanks for the info guys!

Looked around some more and finally ordered a set...

My criteria was:
1 3/4" or 1 7/8" primaries, 3" collector, full length, 3/8" flanges (mandatory).

Only a few meet the criteria really.

I had forgotten about Sandersons checked the site, not too bad but $335 for a non-coated header.
They didn't appear tohave any collecotr length to them (C7's)

The Hooker 2450's were about that price too.

I ordered a set of Hedman 68198's tonight for $281.
3/8" flange, 14 guage tubing, full length, coated, 1 3/4" primaries.

They should work..

I wish I could have gotten them non-coated, welded on some scavenger collectors, then sent off for coating.

I may buy a set of cheapies and do the deed to them and test, then send off..

Do some back to back testing at the strip.

Jake I just recieved my hedman 68198's make sure the gasket you get with them are square not round. Mine came with round not right should have square 1.75x1.75. i called Hedman and they sent me 2 sets of the right ones.IMHO use the gasket they give you no others will fit the raised beed on ther header flange. Also what are you putting them in my car is a 1972 402BB and is in winter storage.Would like to know how install goes do you have to lift motor etc. Thanks for tour time! Gary

Originally posted by gnunzio:
Would like to know how install goes do you have to lift motor etc.Gary,ALL BB headers regards less of brand,size,etc. will require the drivers side motor mount bolt be removed,the motor be jacked up,along with the oil filter removed,z bar removed if its a stick..no ifs and or buts..period.The passenger side goes in with very minimal hassle.

Mr 4 Speed,

Not ALL headers require this...

My '69 car with 427 has Hedman headers on it currently and I can slide the drivers header out the bottom with the car jacked up with the motor mount intact.

The oil filter has to come off I THINK.

I even leave the column shift linkage in place.

One reason I went with Hedmans again.

Gary,
Thanks for the tip.

I've actually had the best luck sealing my current Hedmans with Mr. Gasket cheapie gaskets with the small round hole.

I installed some with the square (larger) hole and they would leak at the corners due to lack of material.

With a 3/8" thick machine header flange I may run them gasket less.

I stand corrected