The starter on my recently rebuilt 454 is overheating. When I drive it around and park it for a few minutes and try to restart it, the starter will make a click, click, click noise then startup. Tonight I was driving around and pulled into a convenient store and when I went back out it had a harder time starting, didnt make the ticking sound but it was barely turning over. It is a brand new AC Delco starter from the local dealership and I also added a heat wrap today but it didnt help much. I really dont want to dump this starter. Ive heard that mini starters dont overheat like stock starters do. Also ive heard that you can wire an external ford soleniod. Would I have to replace my starter to do this? If so how would I wire a ford soleniod to a chevy starter? Is there any other recommendations that you guys have to keep this starter cool. Thanks.

Are you sure it is a 454 starter and not " Starter " Any Chevy starter will fit. 350s and up have different starters than other Chevy engines. B.B. starters have a different internals.
On my 468 driver, I am using a Delco Remy " Chevy " mini gear reduction starter $ 165.00 rebuilt.
I believe if you get the right starter and bolts you should be OK.
I am guessing your starter is getting " Heat Soaked "
I do not know for sure, Bottom line-- Too much heat on starter or, Improper starter. A lot of this is guess work.........
Bob

Your starter solenoid is getting heat soaked. On my other chevelle, I wired in a ford solenoid and mouted it on the inner fender. Never had another problem.:yes:

you wire in the Ford solenoid by taking the stock starter wire off the starter, and make a jumper to tie that terminal in with the big battery cable- thin gauge sheetmetal works the best- whenever the big wire gets power, it feeds power to the solenoid wire.
up top, you bolt the Ford solenoid to a metal surface so it gets a good ground, the wire from the big terminal on the stock solenoid to one of the big terminals on the Ford solenoid, and a big cable from the other big terminal to the + terminal on the battery. take the stock small solenoid wire and hook it up to the left small terminal on the Ford solenoid (if it has 2 terminals) and you are ready to start.
either that, or get the proper HD starter and matching HD solenoid.

take the starter back and get another one, prob has a dead spot in the windings-then if you have the same problem, go another route-FIRST, make sure you have good bat conn's, and a good ground-there are thousand upon thousands of b/b's out there with no heat related problems using the stock type starters, and no heat related problems

If the starter is in fact ok then you likely have issue's with the following. That's because it may not be your starter at this point because its a fresh rblt and you also have a heat shield and there are other things can cause the hot start issues too:

* STARTER IS NOT A HI TRQ UNIT OR IS A HI TRQ CASE/UNIT BUT WAS RBLT WITH A LOW TRQ AMATURE WITH LESS WINDINGS WHICH CAN HAPPEN AT THE RBLDR'S.

* HAVE STATER TESTED UNDER LOAD AT LOCAL SHOR TO SEE HOW MANY AMPS ITS PULLING WITH IS A SIGN OF COND OF THE SOLENOID & STARTER EVEN THOUGH ITS A FRESH RBLT.

* NOT ENOUGH CCA BATTERY OR WEAK BATTERY DUE TO AGE OR WEAK/AILING CHARGING SYSTEM/LOOK FOR 700CC BATTERY OR HIGHER/HAVE BETTERY LOAD TESTED AT LOCAL SHOP TO SEE HOW MANY AMPS IT HAS. WALLMART SELLS GOOD 700 +CCA BATTERIES AT LOW PRICES IF YOUR NOT INTO THE ORIGINAL BATTERY LOOK.

* RUNNING WEAK 37-42 AMP ALT/RUN A MIN OF 61 AMPS OR MORE FOR FASTER RECHARGE INBETWEEN MULT STARTS./HAVE ALT TESTED AT LOCAL SHOP TO SEE WHAT VOLTS/AMPSITS PUTTING OUT.

* ALT AND OR VOLT REG IS PLAIN SHOT/IF ALT BAD REPLACEWITH HIGHER OUTPUT OR HAVE LOCAL RBLD SHOP INCREASE ITS OUTPUT TO AT LEAST 55-61 AMPS.

* CLEAN ALL BATTERY/STARTER/FRAME TO BODY & MOTOR TO BODY CONECTIONS/GROUNDS AND THE HOT WIRE GOING THROUGH THE HORN RELAY .

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

Again,just as long as the starter is truely ok and is a hi trq unit then getting the above squared away will fix your problem. But if any one or more of the above mentioned items are weak/not up to at least 90-95% of their working compacity you will have hot start issues with a gm v8 starting system,thats just how it is.

I have been working on these gm motors for 37yrs and when you get all the above mentioned items right your hot start issues will go away and you dont have to wire in ugly ford solenoids that are a baindaid to other issues and it muck up a nice engine compartment too,its not needed if you get things right.

Scott

If you were to trace the path of electricity back from the starter soleniod's "S" terminal to the battery, there are many places where poor electrical connections can cause this due to voltage loss through one or more of the connections.

Same with the starter itself.

The addition of a Ford solenoid bypasses all those connections and fixes the symptom.

Before you bother to wire in a ford solenoid replace the starter with a mini you would be "foolish" not to at least have the battery load tested,alt output checked,and starter amp draw under load checked al ocal garage or autozone etc which are very easy to do and takes 15 mins to chk prior to doing anything.

I say that because most times then not i have found over the yrs its a weak battery,alt, weak starter or non hi trq starter with perf motor,along with bad /dirty /or new paint under wire connections that cause the hot start issues to begin with when you already have a new rblt starter with heat shield.

And BTW,why did you just install the new rblt starter,was it because your motor was having hot start issues?

If yes that right there tells me its very likely it's one of the other issues i stated above because the new rblt starter did not fix the hot start issue. And even if the starter was getting hot with a new rblt starter & solenoid it would be ok for a while and not crap out right off the bat like it in your case. As long as you didnt get a bad rblt starter which can happen & have seen it before so thats why i suggested load testing it along with battery (how old is the battery and what's the CCA ot CC) and alt testing,very improtant thing to do when your having these issues and it's simple/quick to do at your local garage.

keep us posted on what you do and what fixes the problem in the end.

Scott

Iam in Az so it gets real hot here in summer 99 to 110' so hot starts are a bigger problem here, when I had the stock starter in my 402 it always dragged and finally cracked , then installed mini starter & remote solenoid, check out the Taylor Hot Start/Bump Start Solenoid Kit , got mine from OPG that fixed the hot start . I also put a 1" phenolic spacer under the carb, to cure the gas boiling in the carb and flooding when stopping then trying to start while hot .

http://www.opgi.com/product.asp?topcatid=275&chapterid=681&topvalue=0&newflag=0&grpcode=27505&yearrange=

Ok, I just went out and checked the CCA and CC of the battery. CCA is 450 at 0 degrees F. CC is 550 at 32 degrees F. The battery was the cheapest battery that checker had in stock. I bought it just so I could move and park the chevelle for 7 months while I was in Iraq. The Alternator is a brand new AC Delco from the dealership, im not positive of the amps but I remember it being pretty high around 90 I believe. The starter is also a new AC Delco. I dont think its a high torque starter, didnt think I would need one with a 9.7:1 compression ratio. I made new wires going to the starter before I installed it because the old ones were really worn. Battery cables are brand new and have good grounds and good connections I made sure of that when I built the engine. The starter wires are now questionable considering the extremely tight clearance around the headers, I checked them yesterday, there were no burns on the wires but I dont see how they could hold up to that heat for very long. BTW this is the first starter ive had on this engine, I bought the engine as a bare block so everything is new from the ground up. So im guessing the battery may be the culprit? I want to look at all of my options before I have to take out this starter. Getting this starter in was one of the biggest PIA things ive had to do. So tell me more about this battery maintaner. Thanks.

450 cca is very low for cranking over a heat soaked bbc for sure esp if your running fairly hi compression and cyl pressure so yes the not fresh 450cca battery could be part of the issue if not all of it.

Esp if when you were in Iraq for most a yr & the battery was left without being charged and it may sulfated some which will also lower the amps/cranking power .

So with that said if you have a buddy with higher 700+CCA battery see if you can try out his battery to give that a try to see if that in fact is the issues.

If you dont have a buddy with a battery to try you could go you your local auto parts store and ask if you could just install a higher cca battery (with promiss to buy it if it works well)to see if it fire up better hot righ at their store just to see if its the battery or not.

You should also put a volt meter on the battery with motor running to at least see if the alt is charging a min of 13-13.5 volts at like an 900rpm idle and then 14-14.5 volts at approx 2k-2500 rpm . Then put the headlights on hi beam to see if you get at least 13.5-14 volts at 2k-2500 rpm to ensure the alt is doing ok under a load.

AND BTW,YES,you need a hi trq starter and higher then 450cca battery to start a heat soaked bbc with 9:7 comp esp if it has mild cam with higher cyl pressure in AZ heat

Also,you can buy good hi heat insulation from summit/jegs to warp arround starter wires to protect them from the header heat to avoid having to bother rewiring the car for a ford starter solenoid(YAK!!!,no ford crap on a chevy for me)(LOL!!!)

Let us know how you make out with if you try a better battery with a min of 700CCA for your bbc in the hot AZ weather.

BTW,i setup my frindes 402 with headers heating the starter up that has 10:0 comp,a fairly mild cam (only 222 deg @.05/has hi cylpressure) along with a stock gm hi trq starter & h/shield,750cca battery,and 61 amp alt and that motor has no hot start issues at all even in 95 deg heat after sitting traffic and then stopping for fuel & restarting 5-10 mins later after getting gas.,same goes for my 396.

Scott

What gauge battery cables are you using?

The heavier stock starters can handle quite a bit when a few details minded. One thing they always will be are power hogs. It sounds like you just aren't feeding it enough power to start a hot engine.

Exactly the point of why his not fresh 450cca battery thats only rated for a 4 cyl sentra for god sake cant handle the job becasue it doesnt have enough amps for feed the starter when it needs it most . Thats also not to mention the fact it may not have a hi trq starter to begin with which it needs too.

I have found through the yrs that yess a fresh hi qulity 600 cca battery can handle the jobe if aqll else if up to snuff in the starting system but after 1-2 yrs that lower amp battery will have hpot start issues in a bbc. Its always a good thing to spend 10-20 additional bucks to get the higher 700 +cca battery when your working with hi perf bbc motors but eve a fresh 450cca batery is not up to the task of starting a hot heat soaqked bbc with close to 10:0 comp IMHO.

I run the skinny stock looking gm battery cables as does my friends car i mentioned above too and both ours bbc motors with approx 10:0 comp 396 with mild cams/fairly hi cyl pressure always start fine when heat soaked eve with 18-20 deg base timing for perf cam . Thats beacuse we are running a hd 750cca batery/good hi trq starter with shild/and good alt with min of 61 amps along with clean connections in complete starting system which is key. Overlook one of these items in a stock gm starting system and you will have hot start issues,period.

Scott

Thanks for the replies. Im going to get a new battery with the 700 CCA and see how that works, im due for a new battery anyway. I do have a volt guage hooked up and it shows about 14 when cruising and 12.5 when parked. I really dont want to get a high torque starter even if it means having a ford solenoid. Hopefully it works with the new battery, ill post next weekend with the results. Thanks.

Hi Mike,if the battery helps but doesnt fully fix the hot start issue the ford solenoid will likely NOT fix it either.

I say this becasue you have a newly rblt starter so the solenoid shonld not be a problem yet esp since you have a heat shield to protect it fro header heat .

If you have a non hi trq starter it's the fact that the low trq/low perf starter doesnt have the larger fields in the starter case and that it also doesnt have the hi trq armature with more windings for more cranking power/trq,thats where the issues would be in your case with hi trq vs non hi trq starter.

So if thsats the case just order a std gm hi trq starter from summit and be done with it to be matched with a fresh 700+cca battery at the same time.

And btw the approx 12.5 volts from your alt at idle is not good esp when in traffic esp at night with lights on,you should see at least 13 volts at idle with no load.

So now add it up,very low 450 cca battery cranking power,likely non h trq starter,along with an alt that has low 12.5 output at idle so battery can partially discharge esp at night while in traffic but 14 volt at cruise is ok as long as it will hold 13.5-14 with lights on too while at crusie but the idle output is not good,could you idle it up a few rpm to helpout? Now can you see how this can all collectively add up to hot start issues? As i said before if one or more of the stock gm starting system componats is not up to nearly full potential you can have hot start issues.

Scott

We use a Delco mini starter on our L78. It rolls that engine over as if the spark plugs have been removed. Amazing power for a small unit. We've wrapped a couple of starters and solenoids with a fibreglass/asbestos cloth which has an aluminum foil coating. Never had a slow roll problem with either. Some air can still pass through but the header and engine heat is deflected away. Pretty simple thing to try. Might save a lot of aggravation.

OK.. super small battery was definately a problem. Don't just replace it with a 700cca battery, get the most cca battery you can find!

You missed the fact i already covered that when i suggested " LOOK FOR 700CCA BATTERY OR HIGHER " so i was using 700ccs as a minimum value when i said OR HIGHER.

scott