MadMarv
Apr 13th, 04, 1:34 AM
(its really late and I am not feeling well, expect alot of mistakes)
I've been using those calcs on the net and none of them seem to make sense. I think alot of them confuse rwhp and hp, and rwhp with SAE NET which is different.
Just a foreword I'm not a mechanic by any means, this is a hobby that is starting to get less fun the more I spend to "fix and refix." Its my first car rebuild though, so, big deal.
I have atleast 25hp more than I did the last cam, a 286 @ .006 230 @ .050 .639 single pattern HR(I got something of a remark about if the cam is able to fill the cylinder, thats about as good as it gets) . I did a 12.09 @ 113.4 out of an engine that made "570hp/550tq (6100, 4100)" hp on the engine dyno (lousy (but my best) 1.85 60' on a set of too-short rubbing against the fender 26*10.5 ET streets w/ 16psi hot). Never had it chassis dyno'd in that form. This cam replaced an UD HR4 296 .006. 233 .050 .621 single pattern that was 9.6:1 instead of 10.14:1 (which engine is now) that made alot of power so much that I question how the dyno operator ran the test (564hp @ 5700, 574 ft-lbs @ 3900) (ie all the tricks in the book to make it look good, but to be god awful honest that form felt like by far the meaneast cam I've had so far in this car, and had a much louder distinct sound). Loved that cam :D .
Current motor dyno'd at 565hp/553tq (5900-6200 for hp, the tq peak ps pretty flat throughout), 4400 on the engine stand with my full exhaust and accessories, but with a much larger cam. Its not a light em up motor, it needs to kick to 2-2.5krpm to kick in)I can honestly say I have no idea how much power an (all my actual stuff that will go into the car) air filter, alternator, water pump, headers, x pipe, mufflers and tailpipes would cost hp wise. Maybe I lost 5 hp Or none at all?? Who knows, or where the governor will shift it because I have been unable to floor it from 1-2 w/o lighting the tires on fire, 2-3 I need to save for the track
Check out my dyno curve as is: http://www.detroit-iron.com/images/combodyno.jpg (200k)
I expect there is a bit more hiding in there somewhere, but plus or minus I know. Maybe a little more spring and a little longer on the rev, let the engine use those heads it has. Engine builder seems to still think that there is more lack of efficeny and directs it at the gear vendors and torque conveter, among other things, and would like to review the dyno sheets from. He is a nice guy, but I don't want to sacrifice any driveability for more power. This is just fun to drive now. I have more of a road race car, I could probably put a new vette through my trunk if a yakked on the brakes. All around fun-- stops, goes, just sometimes I wish there was an optional stickshift.
I have never gone more than 113.x mph (I may have hit 114.x the 1st time out ever in the first building of the engine, the 9.6:1 UD cammed version. in every combo of my car I have ever had, different cams, converters, gears, tires, etc, still 113. The car, as Jody mentioned, I really like driving more, and expect when the fixed converter is in and I fix all those other little things I listed in another post, it will be even more pleasureable because I won't be losing fillings putting it into gear or shifting it, never mind footbraking to keep it al stop lights.
I think the net calcs aren't making any sense because they are still telling me 113 mph.
I'd like to know what you all think. Power curve is in the link above, car is 4020lbs, w driver and 1/3 tank. I don't have the safety equip so I am going to be doing a few MPH tests this year (better at the track than on the street anyway). Here is the combo below. I have sunk enough money into this car, between my working hard-arse farm labor, asking my dad for loan after loan of money and know how, (may his 1st car, a 1929 ford model a killed by arson rest in peace), but I am really starting to get frustrated. I get different answers from everybody, and nothing works like they say it will (except for the baer brakes). I know I talk alot on this board and don't offer too much help to others, I try when I can, but I don't want to give wrong advice, and you are all probably getting sick of me and my blithering and whining. But its getting to the point where I am frustrated-- not angry, just frustrated- but very much so.
HP is just a number, and driveability is fun, but I didn't drop XXXX on a cam swap for 25hp and some sound technical advice. Or did I really net alot more than 25hp because of the exhaust being on the engine? (40, 50hp total? If so, then it was worth it). So where do you really think this thing is going to go? I have a tight schedule and I dont know when I am going to b able to hit LVD, I don't know if 495 to new england dragway has been fixed well enough for race cars yet, and getting my trailer ready is a two person job because we roll it down a hill... Sorry.. I am talking and talking, but, I don;t know who else would care and nobody has to read it. It's late and I've come down with a sinus thing and a sudafed is keeping me up.
454 +.032 (462)
perf RPM rect port intake, GM lifter valley splash shield
dart 320 rect port heads, 116.5cc chambers (used)
crower 1.75 full roller rockers
CR lift rule 287/291 256/260 .643 112LS solid roller
isky red zones
regular timing chain
comp 933 springs 1.950 175/475, 6200 max recommended operating rpm, signs of locks moving a tiny bit in the retainer after that rpm, though builder said it would spin to 7500 pointlesslessy almost all day long.
(I love the feel of the solid cam)
manley pushrods
ferrea? valves
holley 4776 DP upper, with 4779 baseplate (750/850) DP 72-78 jets, jet extension kit, nitro floats
except for 4" of 3/8" line right at the tank, there is 1/2" stainless steel hard line or -8AN fiting from all the way back in there to both bowls, carter 172 mechanical.
mobil/exxon 93, sunoco 94, whatever is cheapeast.
10.14:1 SRP forged slugs
stock gm 4.00 forged crank
2 bolt LS5 block
TH400 with 9.5" 3400 stall converter (next week or so anyway), fairbanks shift kit
12 bolt 3.90s
p315/35R17 radials rear
p275/45R17 in front, 4 wheel discs
windstar electric fan
all steel, glass, metal, chrome, plastic, interior, 56/44 weight distrib 4020lbs 1/3 tank gas.
Whats the verdict guys, mph? I know I am going to get to the track and realize that the governor won't shift righ, and I will again hand shift my way from 1 ro 3 or 1-N, or something dumb like that. The converter is one of those precision indusries ones,, I bought it long before I heard iabout ths magazine (super chevy)
matt
I've been using those calcs on the net and none of them seem to make sense. I think alot of them confuse rwhp and hp, and rwhp with SAE NET which is different.
Just a foreword I'm not a mechanic by any means, this is a hobby that is starting to get less fun the more I spend to "fix and refix." Its my first car rebuild though, so, big deal.
I have atleast 25hp more than I did the last cam, a 286 @ .006 230 @ .050 .639 single pattern HR(I got something of a remark about if the cam is able to fill the cylinder, thats about as good as it gets) . I did a 12.09 @ 113.4 out of an engine that made "570hp/550tq (6100, 4100)" hp on the engine dyno (lousy (but my best) 1.85 60' on a set of too-short rubbing against the fender 26*10.5 ET streets w/ 16psi hot). Never had it chassis dyno'd in that form. This cam replaced an UD HR4 296 .006. 233 .050 .621 single pattern that was 9.6:1 instead of 10.14:1 (which engine is now) that made alot of power so much that I question how the dyno operator ran the test (564hp @ 5700, 574 ft-lbs @ 3900) (ie all the tricks in the book to make it look good, but to be god awful honest that form felt like by far the meaneast cam I've had so far in this car, and had a much louder distinct sound). Loved that cam :D .
Current motor dyno'd at 565hp/553tq (5900-6200 for hp, the tq peak ps pretty flat throughout), 4400 on the engine stand with my full exhaust and accessories, but with a much larger cam. Its not a light em up motor, it needs to kick to 2-2.5krpm to kick in)I can honestly say I have no idea how much power an (all my actual stuff that will go into the car) air filter, alternator, water pump, headers, x pipe, mufflers and tailpipes would cost hp wise. Maybe I lost 5 hp Or none at all?? Who knows, or where the governor will shift it because I have been unable to floor it from 1-2 w/o lighting the tires on fire, 2-3 I need to save for the track
Check out my dyno curve as is: http://www.detroit-iron.com/images/combodyno.jpg (200k)
I expect there is a bit more hiding in there somewhere, but plus or minus I know. Maybe a little more spring and a little longer on the rev, let the engine use those heads it has. Engine builder seems to still think that there is more lack of efficeny and directs it at the gear vendors and torque conveter, among other things, and would like to review the dyno sheets from. He is a nice guy, but I don't want to sacrifice any driveability for more power. This is just fun to drive now. I have more of a road race car, I could probably put a new vette through my trunk if a yakked on the brakes. All around fun-- stops, goes, just sometimes I wish there was an optional stickshift.
I have never gone more than 113.x mph (I may have hit 114.x the 1st time out ever in the first building of the engine, the 9.6:1 UD cammed version. in every combo of my car I have ever had, different cams, converters, gears, tires, etc, still 113. The car, as Jody mentioned, I really like driving more, and expect when the fixed converter is in and I fix all those other little things I listed in another post, it will be even more pleasureable because I won't be losing fillings putting it into gear or shifting it, never mind footbraking to keep it al stop lights.
I think the net calcs aren't making any sense because they are still telling me 113 mph.
I'd like to know what you all think. Power curve is in the link above, car is 4020lbs, w driver and 1/3 tank. I don't have the safety equip so I am going to be doing a few MPH tests this year (better at the track than on the street anyway). Here is the combo below. I have sunk enough money into this car, between my working hard-arse farm labor, asking my dad for loan after loan of money and know how, (may his 1st car, a 1929 ford model a killed by arson rest in peace), but I am really starting to get frustrated. I get different answers from everybody, and nothing works like they say it will (except for the baer brakes). I know I talk alot on this board and don't offer too much help to others, I try when I can, but I don't want to give wrong advice, and you are all probably getting sick of me and my blithering and whining. But its getting to the point where I am frustrated-- not angry, just frustrated- but very much so.
HP is just a number, and driveability is fun, but I didn't drop XXXX on a cam swap for 25hp and some sound technical advice. Or did I really net alot more than 25hp because of the exhaust being on the engine? (40, 50hp total? If so, then it was worth it). So where do you really think this thing is going to go? I have a tight schedule and I dont know when I am going to b able to hit LVD, I don't know if 495 to new england dragway has been fixed well enough for race cars yet, and getting my trailer ready is a two person job because we roll it down a hill... Sorry.. I am talking and talking, but, I don;t know who else would care and nobody has to read it. It's late and I've come down with a sinus thing and a sudafed is keeping me up.
454 +.032 (462)
perf RPM rect port intake, GM lifter valley splash shield
dart 320 rect port heads, 116.5cc chambers (used)
crower 1.75 full roller rockers
CR lift rule 287/291 256/260 .643 112LS solid roller
isky red zones
regular timing chain
comp 933 springs 1.950 175/475, 6200 max recommended operating rpm, signs of locks moving a tiny bit in the retainer after that rpm, though builder said it would spin to 7500 pointlesslessy almost all day long.
(I love the feel of the solid cam)
manley pushrods
ferrea? valves
holley 4776 DP upper, with 4779 baseplate (750/850) DP 72-78 jets, jet extension kit, nitro floats
except for 4" of 3/8" line right at the tank, there is 1/2" stainless steel hard line or -8AN fiting from all the way back in there to both bowls, carter 172 mechanical.
mobil/exxon 93, sunoco 94, whatever is cheapeast.
10.14:1 SRP forged slugs
stock gm 4.00 forged crank
2 bolt LS5 block
TH400 with 9.5" 3400 stall converter (next week or so anyway), fairbanks shift kit
12 bolt 3.90s
p315/35R17 radials rear
p275/45R17 in front, 4 wheel discs
windstar electric fan
all steel, glass, metal, chrome, plastic, interior, 56/44 weight distrib 4020lbs 1/3 tank gas.
Whats the verdict guys, mph? I know I am going to get to the track and realize that the governor won't shift righ, and I will again hand shift my way from 1 ro 3 or 1-N, or something dumb like that. The converter is one of those precision indusries ones,, I bought it long before I heard iabout ths magazine (super chevy)
matt