Anyone have any pics they can post or advice on how much to remove and where to grind??

DIY head porting (http://www.sa-motorsports.com/diyport.htm)

Where in PA are you located? I have a set of well ported oval port closed chamber heads. You can look at them if you'd like. They were done by a well respected BBC guy.

Who did them what is done to them and how much are you asking,what size valves?

best head guy down here is probly lorenzos fast flow cyl heads up you way in pa brandywhine cyl heads probly the best in the buissness well in PA anyway

Pick yourself up a copy of the old HPBook's "How to Hotrod Big Block Chevrolets" b/c it has a whole series of pic's on this.

pdq67

Originally posted by 1968 hot rod:
Who did them what is done to them and how much are you asking,what size valves? I didn't mean to buy, I meant if you wanted to see them in person instead of seeing pictures. smile.gif They are off of the motor at the moment.
Anyway,....they were done by Rich Biebel. He did the heads and motor work for Ed Bigley (aka racer1320). They have 2.19/1.88 valves and he knows how to port a BBC head for some power.

Jim,
Thanks for the offer,I am close to Hatfield PA
and might look you up after this weekend.

Go to the link that Rapid Robert posted. I did my 781's using that same guide

Jim,
What did Rich charge you?

Epistuff, I would also like to take a look at those heads, is there any way you could post a few pictures? I've got a set of 049's that I just had stainless 2.19/1.88's installed, hardened exhaust seats, spring pockets cut for roller springs. The machine shop did a 5 angle on the intake's but nothing has been done to the ports yet. I'me sure the rocker stud boss bulges should be cut out and the short turn worked some but should anything be done on the roof or sides of the port. Sure would be nice to see a professional's work. Have the intake port shapes been altered much? Bob

Hi all, badbob = you can find some pictures of a ported oval port head at Meaux Racing Heads that are beautiful. 1968 hot rod = if you have a 10.03 @ 131 MPH wouldn't the oval port motor be a step backwards? That 60' is almost as good as Racer 1320's also.

Harold,
Most if not all bracket motors will ET quicker with an Oval port configuration, the corners in the rectangular ports are Dead air.

Which BTW, how can you make the comparison, the ONLY thing you know about the car is the ET/60ft, nothing of the suspension, weight, compression, cam, induction, ect.

Jim, why are you selling them?

And Brian, " Most if not all bracket motors will ET quicker with an Oval port configuration."

Com'on, that is a long piece of bs there. Please don't serve it here. And BTW, no one has really proved it. Yeah, guys have gone faster with ovals, but ALWAYS with more compression and a cam change.

Don't fret, I also believe ovals are the 'best fit' for most small rats, but please lets keep the hyperbole outside the door.

Maybe 68 Hot Rod thinks these ovals will nick .04 off his time and yield an 9.99???? smile.gif Let's see!

Yup, Both Ken Jett and Tom aka MC71454 are both running respectable times with aluminum rectangular port Canfield heads. The track time speak for themselves.

Lets's not get all tied up into the specific parts used, rather be glad these cars run as well as they do. There's definately more than one way to skin a cat.

Whoops, Todd, I forgot, you did run quicker with the ovals and you only changed the one item , correct?

Anyway, I wholeheartedly concur.

Originally posted by 427L88:
Whoops, Todd, I forgot, you did run quicker with the ovals and you only changed the one item , correct?

Anyway, I wholeheartedly concur. No, in addition to changing the heads, I also changed the cam, intake and carb, then the converter.

Look no further then the fastest class in N/A drag raceing, Pro Stock, pro stock teams across the board ALL use an Oval Port Configuration, no better comparison can be made.

The simple fact that these motors are turning 9000+ RPMs, producing 1300+ HP, and moving a 2350lb car into the high 6.60's and low 6.70's at 207mph! With 500" cid to work with.

http://www.hobbystage.net/camaro/camaroracer/1095347234-004441.jpg

The simple fact that if a 500" Pro Stock motor is faster with the Right Port configuration, a Bracket motor will be faster with the correctly chosen Oval port.

Many in the faster classes are making more power then a stock port can produce, but Engine Builders like Steve Schmidt have stepped up to the plate with a Host of cylinder heads that have an Oval Port configuation and are on the cutting edge of technology offered to the sportsman drag racer.

http://www.steveschmidtracing.com/ssr010007.jpg

12 degree oval port, ProFiler cylinder heads (http://www.steveschmidtracing.com/ssr_010.htm)

If you are in love with flow numbers, look no further then the chart listed under the cylinder heads, while flow numbers are low on the list of considerations, these cylinder heads are putting out 518cfm!

Steve Schmidt selected an Oval port cylinder head to be placed on his 760" Commander, producing 1560HP N/A!

Need More Proof:
Sonny Leonard's 14.5 degree Oval Port cylinder heads (http://www.sonnysracingengines.com/products/heads/pb2005ascastported.html)

Motor Martyr, According to some knowledgable people the most horsepower and torque will be produced when an ideal sized port is arrived at. The round port is the most efficient but must be arrived at with sufficient cross sectional area to feed the motor being built. The factory oval ports have their limits in this reguard. Dart is now advertising a "383", 18 degree, oval but i haven't been able to find out any particulars on it yet. The combustion chamber shape and size is also extremely important and the old factory oval design is very dated. There is an ideal velocity where the port moves the maximum amount of air without going "sonic" which causes fuel distribution problems. I had a very good head porter tell me, "flow don't mean s**t", which must imply that velocity is more important than flow hence the reason that the ovals run so good. Frankly i don't think the people that know aren't going to share the information with the rest of us anytime soon. And now there is the "wet flow technology" which is bringing new knowledge to the porting world and is allowing anyone with a bench to get latest insite into airflow. One IHRA Top Stock team gained 3 or 4 tenths and 4 MPH over the winter and now they are at the head of the pack instead of the back. Remember, " If your not the lead dog the view never changes".

It comes down to ALOT more then flow, as i stated of all the considerations, thats on the bottom of my list.

One of the much more important characteristics is the ports ability to create the swirl effect, which some of the smarter head porters know how to effectively Gauge.

Velocity Makes power, Period! And getting ride of the dead air corners, makes for more velocity, especially in the RPM range of a typical bracket and or street/strip motor.

So does your small block have oval ports or rectangular ports???? And it still runs OK??

smile.gif J/K Brian, we've hashed over this oval v rect debate ad nauseum. Its really no debate at all.... one size DON't fit all.

alright not this shat off will you guy's!!
This is for a 408 I'm putting together either as a back up motor for an oval to square expermint.
Or my friends want to Ebay it off its gonna have good parts so maybe I can clean out the garage some.
They run a 70 402 velle and run ret ports @11:18 118mph.

I'm also wonder which roller cam to use.
I will figure that one out after I decide which casting to use.

Originally posted by 427L88:
So does your small block have oval ports or rectangular ports???? And it still runs OK??
You guy's are too much :D
Last weekend my car ran 10.72@125.12 in 3,200' air with a slight crosswind. Looks like I'll be changing my signature pretty soon, as those times in my signature were posted earlier this year in nearly -1,000' conditions with a 10-15mph tail wind! ;)

In comparison to Ole' Red there, i'd say My combo runs better then "OK" :D tongue.gif


Back to the point at hand!
factory oval port heads when
preppared properly will support 700+HP and 7000 RPM while flowing 320+cfm MORE than
enough for any real street/strip ride!


before you guys go off on a tangent about how the air in NJ is sooo much better for ET's.....the conditions and DA that Ken just posted about when his best ET was made, those conditions rival the best conditions that we see in NJ all year long. In fact my best ET was at +2000' DA. You'd see a drastic improvement in performance from my combo at -1000'.

Originally posted by Motor Martyr:

before you guys go off on a tangent about how the air in NJ is sooo much better for ET's.....the conditions and DA that Ken just posted about when his best ET was made, those conditions rival the best conditions that we see in NJ all year long. In fact my best ET was at +2000' DA. You'd see a drastic improvement in performance from my combo at -1000'. Brian, just to make sure I was clear in my post above. The ET/MPH in my signature, 10.60@127, was posted from February of this year at Reynold, GA when the DA' was nearly -1,000' and a 10-15MPH tailwind. At the time I was running a ported dual plane Performer RPM and a Wilson tapared spacer. We NEVER see conditions that good at my home track in Commerce, Ga.

The 10.72@125.11 was posted this past weekend at an 1,100' track with a DA of 3,200 and a slight crosswind running a custom built Dart Oval-Rect port intake and a .5" wood spacer.

My point is that my car will soon shatter that 10.60@127 as soon as the good air comes back around. According to my weather station my car has a DA factor of ~.01x150'. Look for a bottom 10.5x or high 10.4x pass at 129-130mph, if not better than that.

OK, what's the "DA" acronym thing?

If I've asked before, it's b/c my pointy little head just doesn't remember what it means.. Please bear with me, it's heck ta get old..

pdq67

D/A = Density Altitude

Ken, exactly what i was saying, maybe i worded it more confusingly.

Originally posted by Motor Martyr:
Ken, exactly what i was saying, maybe i worded it more confusingly. Hehe. I thought my statement was confusing, that's why I clarified it. At any rate congrats on your times. We'll ALL be throwing up killer numbers in another month or two graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Originally posted by kjett:
We'll ALL be throwing up killer numbers in another month or two. graemlins/thumbsup.gif Most of us... :(

Originally posted by BillsCamino:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by kjett:
We'll ALL be throwing up killer numbers in another month or two. graemlins/thumbsup.gif Most of us... :( </font>[/QUOTE]If you need someone to blow the carbon out of that 540 you've got my number :D

thanks Ken!

It just can't be possible that Ken J. is running that fast with an RECTANGULAR port, ALUMINUM HEAD, and SINGLE PLANE intake in a full weight Chevelle. It just can't be done. Not to mention that a single plane intake is showing to be faster than a dual plane??? Say it's not so. :eek: ;)

Ken must be running 14+:1 compression to be pulling that off....Oh that's right it's a pump gas engine to boot.

I'm just joking folks. :D

Ken's car is proof that there is truly more than one way to skin a cat.

Nice work Ken!!! Keep us posted on how things turn out on the intake swap when the weather cools off a bit. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Sorry for the delay in response guys. I am out of town on business in Manassas Va. and my wireless connection in the hotel keeps crappin out.

Anyway, the heads I have are not for sale, I just have them off of the motor at the moment and figured if the guy lived close enough, I could pop a few valves out of one of them and he could see what it looked like in there. I won't be back in town till early next week though. I paid $135 for the castings, Rich did the milling, cleanup, new guides, installed new valves, port work intake, exhaust, gasket match,....and a bunch of other stuff that I have written down at home for about $700 if i remember correctly. I can check when I get back

As far as rect port vs oval port goes,........


http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/10/10_9_134.gif

Ken,
How about listing the details of your combo as well as head flow data.

Originally posted by Bob4Prez:
Ken,
How about listing the details of your combo as well as head flow data. Here ya go:

1966 Chevelles SS
454 x .030 = 4.280 bore
deck height .010 Felpro 1071-1 head gasket (.051 quench)
10.37:1 compression
Lunati Racer Series 4" forged crank
LS-7 rods, 7/16" ARP bolts, shot peened
Wiseco forged pistons K117A3 36cc dome flycut to 32cc
Canfield 119cc rectangle port aluminum heads (mild port work)
REV severe duty valves 2.25/1.88
Custom ground Comp Cams billet core solid roller .655/.660 248/254@.050 108LSA 106ICL
953-16 Comp Cams valve springs
732-16 Titanium retainers
CLO-9-3110A Hex-A-Just timing set
ATI-917060 7" ATI Super Damper
84174 Lunati 1.7 aluminum roller rockers
4021 Comp Cams 1 piece stud girdle
Dart oval to rect custom ported intake
Holley HP950 carb with 1/2" spacer
Griffin aluminum radiator
CSI electric water pump
Flex-a-lite twin electric puller fan
March Systems serpentine pulley system
Manual steering
SSB disk/drum power brakes with Comp Cams vacuum canister
Hooker Super Competition headers w/2" primaries
Dynomax bullets with turn downs
TH-400 with full manual reverse valve body built by Neil Racing Tranmissions
8” ATI Treemaster MRT converter flashes to 5,300
12-bolt Chevrolet rear end
4.11 Strange gears/Moser C-clip Axles
Edelbrock no-hop bars
1-1/8" rear sway bar
Hotchkis adjustable 4 link rear w/air bags
Hal 12 way rear shocks
Moog factory replacement springs rear
Global West upper/lower control arms front
Custom QA1 coil over front with small block springs
28x10.5x15" MT ET Drag "S" series slciks mounted on Weld Draglites
28"x4.5"x15" Hoosier skinnies mounted on Weld Draglites

Thanks for the kudos, Jason.

Jim, thnx for solving that enigma for me, I couldnt figure out why you were going to sell them. Great heads for sure.

If you are contemplating a test of rect v oval on a 408, don't bother yourself unless its cammed to run from 4500-8500. Even with a 454, or a small 440, rects will only shine from 4500-5000 rpm on up.( unscientifically speaking). On a 408, that number has to be much, much lower.

I would pretty much copy Todd's 414 ci setup, since its a proven combination at that same ( nearly) displacement.

We run 3700lb 70 velle,10's @134 spinning on the bottle and 11teens@118 1.52 60's N/A with square ports now only 10/1 cr cam is 251°I&E.
When I finish the oval ports we will see what happens.

Come on Ken, don't be so secretive :D
I think the only detail you left out was what brand lugnuts you use.

He, He!! Bet he gets them at NAPA!!

LOL...

pdq67

1968 hot rod, sorry I don't know your name....
I am back home now, e-mail me if you want to see the heads.