Just fishing here.. reading about the wide range O2 sensors and was wondering if anyone has seen anything new, that can be used like that for Methanol combustion??? My EGT up to 1300F on most cylinders (with a lean out in play) but it does not go that high when on HP only, about 1200F. I only spray for 2 to 4 sec on a 7 sec pass. I'm looking for a magic pill here! tongue.gif

This one also works with methanol:

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/lm1.php

Jody

Paul,
If you can change offset in the software any of them will work
I have an ECM on the dyno & I just use a new calibration file & screen I call "alcohol" which I have put the offsets in.
Also got one for Chevron CA pump gas & one for Chev TT101 106 octane Spec gas they run around here.
According to ECM you are supposed to change the offset for different fuels.
Here is part on an email from Chevron:
==
I received your request for the hydrogen-to-carbon (H:C) and oxygen-to-carbon (O:C) ratios for our TT-101 Racing Fuel and California P-II Certification Fuel. I'm listing these numbers below.
>
> TT-101 Racing Fuel
> H:C = 1.92
> O:C = 0.024
>
> California P-II Cert Fuel
> H:C = 1.91
> O:C = 0.019
==
Below is an email from ECM RE changing offsets for the two fuels:
==
Mike and Darlene,

For PT-101 fuel use: AFR = 1.94 Vout + 7.78

For Calif P-II Cert Fuel use: AFR = 1.96 Vout + 7.82

The formula to do the conversion for different fuels is on page 5 of the
manual.

Best regards,

Ron Patrick
ECM
408-734-3433

P.S. Nice operation you have up there in the Redwoods.
==

I talked with the guys from Inovate at the PRI show & they say you don't have to do this with different gas with theirs.??
I haven't tested theirs against my ECM yet but will get around to it pretty soon. ;)

Paul,
I was looking at your sig,.....what is an M40? I'm not being a smart-a$$ if it is a typo, I just have not seen that before.

Hey Mike and Jody, Thanks for the input. Let me ask a few more questions. My Fuel Injection is mechanical so there is no ECM. I do use a Data Acquisition system in the car and can use any sensor with a std 3 wire 1-5V input direct. The system can let me scale a non linear sensor with 5 points but other than the T/C's, all the ones I use are just set for a Zero and Span. Looks like for a on-board system the key would be to get the Bosch LSU4.2 5-wire, wide-band O2 sensor into that system. Extra conversion boxes are pretty hard to fit in this car, but not impossible. Let me dig around and see if I can find a spec. sheet on the raw sensor... Do you read this sensor engineering units as excess O2? If so what would be ideal for power with methanol? I never thought an O2 sensor would work for this. I wonder how they would hold up over time????......Thanks
More Wolf pictures please! graemlins/hurray.gif

Jim, M40 is what the General called the TH-400. graemlins/waving.gif

I believe the innovate should work well for your purpose (especially for the cost), it also has a datalogger and you can add an inductive pickup.

Just make sure you intall the sensor a fair distance before the exit of the exhaust to the open air, like 12-16" at least IMO. If you don't you will pick up some atomospheric air and show a false lean signal.

I'm not sure about life expectancy with methanol, but the Bosch LSU sensors don't like lead from my research.

The sensor Innovate uses is a VW part# 021 906 262 B. It's $46. at the local VW dealer. It is a Bosch 5-wire wideband unit. I believe they tell you to look for 9:1 A/F on methanol, but I can't find my manual right now.

Jody

found this on the Bosch web site.

Wideband: This is the newest design of oxygen sensor and it offers the increased accuracy needed to meet the latest emissions requirements. Unlike all the other types of oxygen sensors, the wide-band sensor can actually measure the air/fuel ratio from 11:1 (excess fuel condition) all the way to straight air (no fuel)! (The ideal air/fuel ratio is 14.7/1.) This improved measurement allows the engine control system to measure the actual air/fuel ratio and eliminates the switching between lean and rich associated with a traditional type of oxygen sensor. These sensors use a planar zirconia ceramic element, so that they heat up much faster than other types of sensors- reducing cold start emissions. These sensors can be identified with having five or more wires. In addition, these sensors are used with the newly developed gasoline direct injection engines. Direct injection engines can use stratified charges, which produce a very lean mixture in the combustion chamber, and these sensors must be used because of their ability to measure from very lean to very rich accurately. Click here for a diagram of a wideband oxygen sensor.

Originally posted by pcs0snq:
Hey Mike and Jody, Thanks for the input. Let me ask a few more questions. My Fuel Injection is mechanical so there is no ECM. I do use a Data Acquisition system in the car and can use any sensor with a std 3 wire 1-5V input direct. The system can let me scale a non linear sensor with 5 points but other than the T/C's, all the ones I use are just set for a Zero and Span. Looks like for a on-board system the key would be to get the Bosch LSU4.2 5-wire, wide-band O2 sensor into that system. Extra conversion boxes are pretty hard to fit in this car, but not impossible. Let me dig around and see if I can find a spec. sheet on the raw sensor... Do you read this sensor engineering units as excess O2? If so what would be ideal for power with methanol? I never thought an O2 sensor would work for this. I wonder how they would hold up over time????......Thanks
More Wolf pictures please! graemlins/hurray.gif Paul,
Sorry for not being more specific graemlins/clonk.gif
ECM is th name of the company that makes the lambda unit I use.
Here's a link:
ECM (http://ecmmotorsports.com/)

Alcohol Lambda is around 6.4 I believe

Forgot,
The Inovate already has a calabration for alcohol as well as propane & diesel built in but as I said I haven't got to play with it yet.
If it works as well as claimed it beats the hell out of $2000 plus about $300 for sensors I have invested currently in the ECM one I currently run on the dyno.
If nothing else $50 sensors wouldn't ruin your day if you screwed them up :D
And the sensor Inovate uses is supposed to be within 1 or 2% of the high dollar ones. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

PS,,,,,there are a bunch of Wolf pics on my web site in my sig

Hey Mike. Looked at your web site. Your shop is better than anyting I have ever seen around here. Very, Very nice!!!! graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Thanks Paul, wer'e kinda proud of it for a "shadetree operation" out in the sticks a mile down a dirt road.
But you are supposed to be looking at the Wolves like everyone else, not the equipment.
People are going to get the idea you're one o dem fool gearheads or sumptin :D

O yea about the Wolves... They sure look nice...... and HUNGRY!!! how does a customer approach the shop?? :D

Originally posted by pcs0snq:
O yea about the Wolves... They sure look nice...... and HUNGRY!!! how does a customer approach the shop?? :D =
With permission :D