I'm new at this so it's an honest question, no flames intended.

But why would someone build a small block over a big block? Is it strictly money? Although I've seen many very expensive SB's out there.

All things being equal, why would you want a 400hp (or whatever) SB over the same BB?

Just curious.

Alot of it is weight savings. If you have a 400hp SB and a 400hp BB then the SB would make the faster car do to less weight. As well as lots of other reasons including personal preferance.

Money, personal preference, the challenge, parts availability, MPG, maybe it's the 1st engine and they want something easy to build and/or with less power, the list goes on and on... just as the list goes on and on for why peoeple choose BBC over SBC.

Something I've always read that I really don't understand is what what makes one harder to build over the others? I understand your other points though. Weight, challenge etc...

Weight and they are much easier to fit into a tight engine compartment such as early model chevy II and chevelles. Saw a '67 chevelle that only weighed 2750 lbs. with a small block.

i went the S/B route because of the challange. when i raise the hood at cruse-ins it dosent get near the respect a B/B does. a lot of people just glance and walk off mumbling stuff about B/Bs. guess if i had to do it over again i might go the B/B route simply because it would be a little more streetable. Dave

Familiarity is #1 I bet.

All the above reasons plus the simple thing of supply...There are one heck of alot more SBC out there to build than there are BBC's.... Just as an example I currently own 4 SBC's and 1 BBC....My next engine ? Most likely a SBC.

If, God forbid, you found yourself in a speed contest driving a car with a 454 and you lost to a smallblock, you'd need an excuse.

If you won, so what?

In '67, our friend Bill "Grumpy" Jenkins ran a 327 Nova in SS/A against 426 Hemi Mopars, 396 and 427 Chevs, 427 Ford Fairlanes, etc., and was a consistant winner. Ya 'spose he was having more fun than them?

Originally posted by 427L88:
Familiarity is #1 I bet. And then probably cost.

also the ability to spin them to the moon (well most of them), something you wouldnt really want to do to a BB.

aaron

Cost, availability of parts, installed cost
including engine, trans, clutch, headers, exhaust, radiator. Handling considerations. An iron block / alum head small block is very lite wt.. This makes a huge difference in front / rear wt ratio. My feeling - if the car was originally a BBC, leave it so. If car had a small block, consider running a hopped up small block.

Try fitting a big block in a stock suspension 62-67 Nova, and you will have the answer to your question. smile.gif

Are Big Blocks really needed? (oh man I am gonna get torn apart. :D ) Is there a replacement for displacement? Yes it's called technology. In the last few years there seems to be an explosion of turbo/super chargers out there. Add in fuel injection and you can have a 500HP small block that gets 25mpg. With some fab skill, the click of a mouse, and tons of time it can be done for fairly cheap.

My winter project this year is gonna be a junkyard turbo build up for my 305 Cutlass. With lots of time and a HX35 turbo I should be able to make over 400hp on a bone stock 305 short block. How long it will hold is another story.

Steve

Originally posted by GRN69CHV:
Cost, availability of parts, installed cost
including engine, trans, clutch, headers, exhaust, radiator. Handling considerations. An iron block / alum head small block is very lite wt.. This makes a huge difference in front / rear wt ratio. My feeling - if the car was originally a BBC, leave it so. If car had a small block, consider running a hopped up small block. Agreed. Not only is an original small block car inherently better balanced than a BB car, putting a big block into a car originally equipped with a small block carries a lot of additional cost if you want to do it right. New springs, shocks, radiators, pulleys, fan, hoses, accessory brackets, etc.

All geat answers, thanks! My car right now is a 120HP 6 cylinder so I'll have to buy all the parts anyway. I'm pretty confused on what to build though.

Originally posted by csilkman:
All geat answers, thanks! My car right now is a 120HP 6 cylinder so I'll have to buy all the parts anyway. I'm pretty confused on what to build though. So then you need to think about how you plan to use your car. Most of the big block owners I know are not long haulers when it comes to hitting the road. You can have a small block making the same power as a big block and pull 3-5 mpg more from it easy, with overdrive and the right component choices it could be 10 or more mpg.

I've always had good luck/performance with my small blocks. I contemplated going with a pump gas 565 for my next motor project but ended up going back with another small block (18dg 427) that should add another 125hp over my current 422.

Familiarity has a bunch to do with it. Once your up in the 600hp range your better off cost-wise with a big block.

A small block will also be easier to hook on a 10" tire/non-tubbed car.

Is there a replacement for displacement? Yes it's called technology. In the last few years there seems to be an explosion of turbo/super chargers out there. Add in fuel injection and you can have a 500HP small block that gets 25mpg. With some fab skill, the click of a mouse, and tons of time it can be done for fairly cheap. This isn't necessarily completely true. Throw that same technology at a Big Block, and you should see similar increases in power and economy levels.

Look at the guys using the new Gen engines... many are stepping up displacement to C5R blocks and going for the 427 cid engines (or something like that), because there's no replacement for displacement on a similarly equipped engine...

Naturally comparing the newer technology to the older dinosaurs will show quite a few reasons to go small... small block that is...

So basically its personal preference. How much do you want to spend and what do you want your car to do? Whats the ultimate goal? Whats most important?

honestly, if I build another street car, I will probably go with a nice small block. But thats because absolute best ET isn't my consideration. i want a fast car, but I want something that cruises nicely too, and isn't as harsh on parts, etc... Maybe an LS1...

Its been said here before, big blocks arent necessarily better, just cooler.
Ron

How many small block funny cars or top fuel rails are there....lets see....none

'Bout 3 years ago, I decided to go with a big-inch small block - 427 to be exact. It is now thumping badboy 434 that's making around 600hp and isn't huffing too hard to make it.

Pro's: Tons of engine bay room, tons of parts - sky is the limit; good bottom end machine job gives me stability all the way up to 7200, maybe more

Con's: Haven't used even 1/4 of all that extra engine bay room but the victor requires a cowl induction hood now; a bear to keep cool; wear and tear - we all know this one.

Do it again? Probably not. Anything over a 450hp target and I'll go rat without a second thought next time. I love my 434 - it's a work of art - but I think it would take me no time at all to settle into the torque and reliable hp of a 502 or 572 (or any other rat) could serve up.

Best,

Mike H.

My reasons for SB over BB is weight 100% otherwise I would want cubes.

I have a ford ranger and everyones favorite swap for those is 5.0, I wanted to save weight and build power so I swapped in a turbo set up that is california smog legal, makes tons of power compared to stock and doesn't dig it's nose into the ground when I try to stop or turn.

I just bought a 1970 Malibu 300hp/350ci (CRE) car minus carb, battery and front brakes (factory disk but rotors were shot) for 250 bucks. Put parts I had laying around on it and started it. When deciding what I wanted to do with it. Goal for the project. The one thing I wanted to do was turn. That is why I am staying with a small block. I want a street car that is fun to drive. Granted they are probably never good cornering cars no matter how much global west money you spend but I don't want a car that is devoted to the straight line. So the first thought is save weight. Luckily in this case, saving SBC weight saves money too.

The way I see it, for me anyways, it all comes down to money. If you're looking to make a lot of power with stock parts then hunt yourself down a bigblock. If it is a 300-400 hp engine then you can do that fairly easy with stock and midified smallblock parts. If aftermarket rods, crank, heads, etc are going to be purchased then you might as well go bigblock because the price difference won't be all that great in the long run and you'll make more power. If this is your first project and you're doing it yourself I recomend a 350 or 400 as a starting point if the budget is tight. Ask around and you'll find parts hiding everywhere, I try to slip some car talk into almost every conversation I have and it has provided a lot of good deals over the years. Bob

Originally posted by Greybeard:
If, God forbid, you found yourself in a speed contest driving a car with a 454 and you lost to a smallblock, you'd need an excuse.

If you won, so what?
graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Originally posted by 69bigblock:
How many small block funny cars or top fuel rails are there....lets see....none Theres a reason for that also .. NHRA Rules .. Thats why they have a min. CID also. Recently there has been chatting on another board about 400 cid T/F motors making close to, or the same power the 499 cid engines do

But thats another topic ...

The SB BB deal is ALL personal preference. I ran SB's for years in Drag Only cars until I realized that unless it was class racing and required there was no reason to run a SB. But thats just my opinion

a few years ago i wanted a hobby car that would be reasonable on cost, have high utility as a driver, be easy to work on, look cool and would perform "similar" to a late sixties early 70's stock muscle car. i chose a '72 el camino, 3.73 12 bolt, built a 406 with iron eagle heads, 350 rods, KB pistons, crane cam, edelbrock, holley....etc. etc. and i must say i met all my objectives. i have owned a few big blocks in the past and i loved them but this 406 runs stronger than almost any of them did, stock, of course.

csilkman,

First - congrats on getting what could be a nice ride. Second, I suggest you accept the 6 banger for a while until you get some serious work done on that body & chassis. Your car came with a 6 cylinder, a step up to a v8 in your '65 will enough of a challenge, a big block drivetrain will cost a fortune. Remember - chassis includes frame, suspension, trans, rear, driveshaft, spindles, brakes, etc.. You could get buy with the 6 cyl components with a small block, but not with a big block. For now, tackle the rust. 6 bangers are still cool!

Charlie over at PT .com has Stielow's old Camaro running a detuned small blk at over 1000HP. How many of you B/B boys can claim that-oh yeah he drives it cross country. Mouse motors just make sense unless you are drag racing or into #'s matching there is no "good" reason to look at the monster motors. The LS1 can easily be built to pull in excess of 500HP normally asp. and still knock down 20MPG. I am much more impressed by a 10 sec small blk that drove to the track than a 8 sec B/B that was trailered.
My .02

If you have a 400hp SB and a 400hp BB then the SB would make the faster car do to less weight. I would argue this point, TORQUE is what moves you. You don't have to spin a big block to the moon to make good power,ya aint gonna find too many smallblocks shifted at 6500 or less and run in the 10's n/a. I would also venture to say that longevity is on the big blocks side since it doesnt have to work as hard.

I think it has to do a lot with money and whether the car was 6, SB, or BB to start with. With my Stock SB parts, it would have been way out of my high school/college budget to covert to BB. So what do i want to do? Stroker SB or 400SB.

I went from a screaming 327 to a 454 in my 65 . The 327 made great power and was reliable. BUT... I always thought a big block was just plain cool .And as mentioned, the conversion is not cheap . Throw in performance parts and you've spent a pretty penny. As always it's your ride. Do what pleases you.

"Detuned" small block at over 1000hp? Build the big block with the same technology and detune it to 1300 or more. You just can't get the torque or hp out of even a huge smallblock that you can out of a big inch big block - the crank arm length and piston surface area are both much more on the big block and other than airflow thru heads, those are the two main determining factors of torque production. Can't make a smallblock head that will flow with the huge stuff available to monster blocks - there isn't room, period. Start with a tall deck with Big Duke or Big Chief heads and you've got 1150+ hp naturally aspirated. Anything over about 500 - 600 on the street is pretty much a waste anyway, but it sure is fun to light 'em up at 40. If you reallly want a challenge, get a 565 to hook on street tires AND on street pavement. I've built a few darn good strong smallblocks and a 406, 415 or 427 will make just about all a typical street car can handle, but give me a rat between my frame rails in most instances. It takes an aftermarket block to build anything at 427 inches or bigger small block-wise, so why not go aftermarket on the big block and run a 4.600 bore? That bore size unshrouds the valves and lets it breathe like nothing else. I don't care how big of a crank you manage to squeeze into a small block, it'll never have the WOW factor of a big block. I know there are a lot of smallblock fans out there and I respect what some of you guys are able to do with 'em. I don't intend for my comments to be a flame toward anyone, but I'm as dedicated to big blocks as a lot of folks are to the smaller stuff and just about as opinionated about them. If I'm gonna carve the canyons, give me an aluminum headed smallblock for the handling. If I'm going to cruise the streets or hit the strip, it's gotta be a rat, prefferably with big inches. IMHO, of course.

^^^^^^I agree with this guy. I'll most likely have more SB rides in my life than BB ones but i have Big respect for the Big blocks. But just like everything else, I'm not all that obsessed with the 540/565/572/632 engines, they're BIG and all, but to me the 427, the 454 and the 502 are the attractive BBs.

I will be building a small block for my first car. why you ask because I have a 5,000 dollar intake manifold sitting in my basement also known as a 63 corvette fuel injection. I just cant pass up the chance to build a nasty mouse motor with that injection and dual throttle bodies like the old cheata race cars. i have this thing for old mechanical fuel injections.

You could sell that Corvette Fuel injection and almost do the whole engine project, big block or small block and a newer style electronic F.I. without the theft worries. Keep the hood closed if you do use it so as not to make a midnight auto shopping target out of it.

I saw a number of mild small blocks running low 12s and decided to build one (my cruse car). The AFRs I run on my small block flow close to the worked ovals on my last big block(but with a smaller intake port). So they still make good power and are a better match when using a small "cruse" cam. Also since I have two cars, I can have one of each. The other car will have a 533 with AFR heads and will not be on the mild side.

WOW!!! Sounds like all the same reasons I heard over 35 years ago. Do what you like. I like them both, but, I always put a 327 L79 real or clone in all my 66-67 Malibu's front end.

See how radical of a small block you would need to run a 4000 lb. car to a 12.99 with 2.73 gears :D
My bet is would be pretty unstreetable unless it was a stout 406 or similar 383
My motor cost me $2500..think you could still build that radical small block for that money and have it run that ET and that weight and with that gear?

Originally posted by 71Sprint:
If you have a 400hp SB and a 400hp BB then the SB would make the faster car do to less weight. As well as lots of other reasons including personal preferance. Are you talking a 350 that 400 HP and 390 ft/lbs. of torque vs. a 402 that makes 400 HP/450 ft./lbs. of torque or a 454 that makes 400 HP and 500 ft/lbs. of torque? :D ;)

The 454 would win hands down.

Originally posted by BowtieAaron:
also the ability to spin them to the moon (well most of them), something you wouldnt really want to do to a BB.

aaron Take a ride with me some day brother. But, admittedly, I'm tame now. Only 7k, no more 7400 powershifts.

I second those powershifts in Gene's ride graemlins/thumbsup.gif
You're at 7K before you can say "holy crap" :D

Having said that, some sbc's will eat Old Red at the track. But can they drive 1500 miles getting 16mpg??? So, what can we infer from that?

You're not building a motor, you're building a drivetrain system that must be matched to itself and the intended use.

Big , small, in between, they all have their roles, they all have their proponents, and they are all cool to me!

Blondes or brunettes? They both taste great. I prefer bigger girls that are a bit athletic. It's nothing more than a preference, not something to quibble about, and certainly not something that's "better" or "worse". Is a big blonde better than a petite brunette or redhead? Hope I don't offend anyone with the analogy, but it's something that is a bit more obvious. And if I could, I'd run through the gears with all of them. This one is nice out of the hole, I like the pull on that one, nice top end here, etc., etc., etc. Sure would like to take one of the 'petite' models out for a spin one day. tongue.gif

If you plotted a distribution of ET's here, you'd see a gaggle in the 12 second range, maybe 12-13, and both bbc and sbc are represented in this normal distribution.

" And which do you prefer young man?"

" Uh, Sir, I like all a-dem !"

" Right answer, troop." smile.gif

Build up your chassis for now. Brakes., etc and get for 400 ponies. Then make a choice whn you have a good basic platform, like GRN69 has said.

Well, as for Chevelles, they're big cars...so I like to pop the hood and see something big too!

Personally at car shows too, I don't care if there's a totally dressed up smallblock that will blow the doors off anything, even if I see a cruddy looking big block I just love it, but like I said that's just me! graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Well I didn't break any world records with my small block performance but look at my sig. My car goes pretty good with a small block on pump gas. Shift at 6000 rpm

BTW those runs were made on a Hoosire 28 inch slick. And I have made some other changes but haven't made it back to the track yet.

I'm with Gene here after having ran 265, a couple a 283's my junk 301, a mild 327, my 350 and finally my 406!!

I dearly love the rpm's the little motors put out on the top end, but ALSO the grunt of my 406!!

I'm over on the "Dark Side" now with my 496!!

AND I'm even considering making another junk 301 outta my nephew's old 283 motor for the fun ofit but this time more radical!!!!!!

pdq67

First, I’m a self-professed small block bigot (but 454’s make great tow motors).

IMO, people that race small blocks are generally on an ego trip (before you start flaming me, remember that I fall in that category). They want to be able to say that they did more with less (cubic inches). And, if your goal is to maximize the naturally aspirated hp/ci, the smaller the motor, the easier it is to reach that goal. Even within the small block family, you can make more hp/ci with a large bore/short stroke 360ci than you can with a 454 ci sbc.

On the other hand, if you are looking for maximum hp or just maximum streetable hp, the pig block is perhaps (I refuse to be definitive here) the way to go.

I think Scott Shafiroff would disagree with the small, small block theory as his latest offering is 472 cu.in. and 855 H.P. which isn't too bad.

I'll most likely never race the car so it's honestly an ego thing. So any engine I put in will probably be overkill. I'm looking for reliability, streetability, sounds good, looks good, and of course the bragging rights. I'm sure I'll be happy no matter what I choose to build or buy.

Isn't the valve locations of a bbc head better then the sbc? Since the bbc uses a "canted valve" type head? And the best sbc head is a canted valve head. Which was why all the pro stock truck teams used them, when they had an option for any head they wanted.

I remember a few magazines doing a bbc vs. sbc test, and the bbc always won. Which I would assume is do to the better cylinder head design. Even though it's throwing some heavier rotating weight.

And for those using the tall deck, big stroker crank 434+ cubic inch sbc as a "makes just as much power as a big block" excuse. You need to remember, bbc guys can get aftermarket blocks, heads, etc. to make close to 800 cid.

And the "technology" works on both engines. Technlogy is providing better flowing heads, intakes, better camshafts, etc. But that is available for both sbc, and bbc.

I like both engines. But if you want really big power, you go bbc, period. Do an all aluminum job if weight is a concern, graemlins/thumbsup.gif .

My answer for SB over BB is cost. I can buy a 4 bolt 350 block for $100 any day and have been looking for any 454 block for a year and haven't seen one for under $400. Pistons, intakes, cams, rockers, etc. all cost more period. You can put together a decent 350 for $500 that puts out 350 HP. The 454 will put out 450 HP but you end up with much more money and that is usually the deciding factory if space is available.

I have a 69 with a 350 and a 69 SS with a planned 496. My expectation is the 496 will suck gas and go fast, but the 350 will get a LOT more miles put on it over the next 10 years. If you aren't interested in burning the tires off your car then go SB.

Saw this on Ebay. Wonder what your thoughts are. Not a lot of feedback which would make me nervous:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7909631870&category=33615

Not bad, but don't like the cam ( personally dont like big hyd cams), and wonder if they put bigger valves in the heads. Swap out the cam for a better grind, put standard vol oil pump on ( unless they've set the thing up on loose clearances), and run it in for me, drain it all, and ship it with a written warranty for $4000, isnt bad.

Originally posted by Harold Sutton:
I think Scott Shafiroff would disagree with the small, small block theory as his latest offering is 472 cu.in. and 855 H.P. which isn't too bad. Indeed, 1.81+ (855/472) hp/ci isn't bad, but it doesn't come close to the 2.2+ (800/360) numbers generated by the average normally aspirated, heads up sbc motor (using 23 degree heads and a 4150 carb).

Let alone the 2.65+ (950/358) numbers generated by the sbc motors in the Pro Stock Trucks (using any heads they wanted and sheet metal intakes).

Small block, Big block, If you want to go fast and it makes you go fast, It's cool. If you think it looks cool, it's cool. If you just want to cruise and it'll cruise 'till the cows come home, it's cool. Is one better than the other? Only if you're comparing a specific engine to a specific engine (ie, Joes built 355 to Jims built 427). You've got mice and you've got rats, but they're all rodents, and that's all I need to know. Just my $.02

Heck, I have About $3800 to $4000 in my 496 great big , per D2K, 550hp at 5,500 rpm, 496 "tow-truck" motor that I put together myself so please go figure costs again....

Nothing much to my motor at all unless you think new Merlin oval port heads, a single plane Strip Dom., a CC 282S solid cam and about 9.8 to 1 CR. is radical??

pdq67

small block or big block is all a personal prefrence. So whatever motor someone has and they are happy with it, they dont really care what other people say bad about it.
(As long as they dont stuff a ford engine into a chevelle i dont care) big rat or small mouse each have there advantages and disavantages :eek:

Parts interchange, we forgot about that one. This is one reason SBC guys like SBCs, the small block chevrolet seems to have more interchanging parts than almost any other engine out there. BBCs seem to have have had more Generations than the SBC. Excluding the LS1, the SBC only had 2 major Gens. One from the original 265 all the way up the 400, with a big range of years in between. The second Gen was the LT1-based SBCs of the 1990s. Before the LT1, you could pretty much take any part from any SBC and put it onto another SBC, with very little effort. Heads, intake manifolds, cranks, distributors, etc, if you're in a pinch and one of these items dies on you, it's almost a sure shot that any junkyard will have a part that will at least hold you over for a while if not directly replace your worn part. Even with the 87-up stuff, there's ways to adapt the newer stuff to the older stuff relatively easy. Now, if you were to mess up your BBC's head pretty bad, there's a chance the local junkyards won't have a BBC head laying around under every chevy hood, and if they do, it might be the wrong Gen head, etc.

So parts interchange and availability is a BIG part in staying Small.

I just picked up a standard bore high nickel/tin 4 bolt main 350 short block for $25. If I could do that with 396s or 454s, I would switch to BBs in a heartbeat.