My house is 2880 sqft., single story. The hot water heater is on one side, close to the kitchen and master bedroom. But the guest/smaller rooms on the opposite end of the house take forever to get hot water out to.

Is it possible to add a smaller 20gallon water heater (electric) that would be installed at the distant bedrooms? It is a crawlspace house, with room below for such a unit. I like the electric because I can flip the breaker off when nobody is using the back shower.

If it is possible, can you guys think of any drawbacks to this? Or maybe justify putting a high $$ tankless unit "back there".

Don't have any advise for you but it is a "water heater" not a "hot water heater" :D

LK

You can also install a small recirulating pump. When the hot water is needed at the far end, flip the switch for a second and it will cycle (not waste) the water from the water heater up to the faucets.

Your idea will allow limitless hot water use, though - can be a benefit if your tank isn't big enough for too many people at once.

Don't have any advise for you but it is a "water heater" not a "hot water heater" :D

LK

That is also a pet peeve of mine. No need to heat hot water!!!


Mike. If you separate the hot water systems, It will work great. With the duel system, You won't have to worry about people taking showers at the same time. Just remember that you will need to turn the small heater on early enough to give it time to heat the water before using that bath.

"Hot water heater", from the Department of Redundancy Department. :)

"Hot water heater", from the Department of Redundancy Department. :)

If your water heater doesn't make the water hot enough then you do need a hot water heater.

Depends on at what temperature you call "hot"
If it's in the tank @ 110* and the WH heats it on up to 120* then it's a hot water heater.
(that is unless you cal 110* cold, the it's a cold water heater). :D

Pretty easy to stick a 20 gallon electric down there Mike.
I would use the existing hot water pipe, cut it and connect both cut ends to the new WH.
(in series with the main WH)

Mike your idea of adding an additional water heater is a good one as long as you have the correct electric source close by. The circulating pump idea wont work on a single pipe system as it will require a return line. With todays hot water heaters it wouldn't be worth the effort to even turn it off as it would use very little energy to maintain temp. when not being used due to better insulation. You will want to valve off your current hot water feed side. Using a dual water heater set up will allow you to have the option of using either hot water in case of a failure of either one. I personally would opt for something a bit larger than a 20 gallon unit and install it in a drain pan. Then pipe both the T&P valve and the drain from the pan thru the side of your foundation in a noticeable spot to detect any leaks or failures in a timely manner........Good Luck

You guys are cruel! :D

Right now it's just me and the (soon to be) misses. Early next year we plan to get the master bathroom redone, so we will be using the distant bath for about 2 months straight.

Good points guys.
I too was a little curious about detecting failures. I'd just have to crawl under there and check it out. Or walk out to the meter once in a while and make sure it stays still when nothing is turned on. The 20gal' will be in series with the main tank. using up the available hot water isn't an issue, because it's just the two of us. so I was thinking that before the 20Gal could run out during two simultainious showers in the back rooms, the main "reserve" hot water would come trucking in and wouldn't need to get heated by the.... hot water heater! ;)

I would still run a separate cold water supply to the 2nd tank. But if you do run them in series it might be cheaper as you would only need to buy a 'warm water heater'.:D

I don't think 20 gallons will be enough for showers unless they are short and a long time apart. I'd look at a recirc pump.

Humm....20 gallons....(soon to be misses)....I think this might be the best time to shower together.....to save hot water of course. :p

20 gallons is plenty if connected in series, it only has to reheat warm water after the initial storage is used which will take a couple of fairly long showers because it's incoming water is already hot.

You would have to run another line from the hot water pipe all the way back to the existing WH for a recirculating loop.
Recirculating loops are very inefficient because of the constant heat loss from the loop pipes.

I have a 20 gal. in the garage that stays on all the time. no need to shut it off doesnt effect the bill enough.
as for showers it hasnt ran out of hot water yet. and I dont rush to get done.

There are also recirc systems available now without the need for a return loop. a bypass type valve is installed under the furthest lavatory and the recirc pump near the water heater on the hot line. This recircs the hot back into the cold line at the lav and keeps your furthest point of delivery warmer.Grundfoss makes several to chose from.

I'll look into both. I can work out the details to decide which option is better. Until I read this post, I'd never even heard of a re-circulating pump.

Donnie, you take showers in your garage? No wonder your car looks so good.

My only goal here is hot water to the back two bathrooms (about 40' of linear tubing) that is "ready and waiting" versus now where it takes about 2 minutes in the winter months. And while I'm at it, I'd like to plan for the worste case scenario of one person taking a shower and another taking a bath and for that water to be the same temperature. i.e. 5 minutes into the shower I don't want the water temp to climb (or drop?) a noticable/sudden amount.

The in series 20 gallon tank put closer to the back rooms is also cheaper for me to install. I will only pay a plumber to come out and solder the small amount of tubing, but I can mount it and get power to it.

Dean, would you mind guessing at how much you'd charge to do that in series soldering part? I'd venture to guess around $100 + materials, but there's probably a minimum to make the drive out. You can send a PM, or opt' not to comment. ;)

I will only pay a plumber to come out and solder the small amount of tubing, but I can mount it and get power to it.

If you can mount it and get power to it, you can solder the pipes too. Seroiusly..... all you need is solder, flux, and pipes. I'd bet you already have a butane torch, and a tubing cutter.... :D

We re-did the kitchen 2 years ago, and moved the sink about 8" over. I redid all the plumbing in copper including replacing the crusty galvanized down to the basement, and I'd never done it before. A couple practice pipes and an hour laterI had it down.

Mike, I don't know the going rates in Al. but here I'm sure it would be more than 100 bux. 94.00 service call for the first 30 min. and 21.00 per 1/4 hr after. Even if you had the house all drained down and ready I could easily see 1-2 hours of work. Oh yeah, don't forget copper has sky rocketed in price, 1/2" type "m" is 3 bux a foot and fittings are high too. You could save much labor AND materials having the line installed in P.E.X. piping. The Grundfoss recirc systems typically run around 800.00 installed. the drawback to those would be more equipment to maintain.

PEX. I'll walk by the plumping section while in Lowes today. Learning more than I thought I would in this thread!

I will look into doing the piping myself as well.

I work with solder on an almost daily basis doing electrical wiring. It can't be too different, I guess?

Mike, I'd cut the water lines going to that end of the house and put in a 30 or 40 gal electric (cost can't be that much more than 20 gal). I tried the recirc that goes under the sink without a return line and after a couple of years the check valve failed. I found that out while running water to wash my car it started getting warmer. Tracked it down to check valve and wondered how long I'd been watering my lawn with warm water and eating up my propane. While you do remodel you won't be waiting for hot water and later as a guest area you can turn it on ahead of time. I agree with using pex tubing to keep cost down and fewer joints that might leak.

There are plenty of DIY ways of connecting a WH without any soldering also.

Duct Tape!!! :D

20 gallons is plenty if connected in series, it only has to reheat warm water after the initial storage is used which will take a couple of fairly long showers because it's incoming water is already hot.

You would have to run another line from the hot water pipe all the way back to the existing WH for a recirculating loop.
Recirculating loops are very inefficient because of the constant heat loss from the loop pipes.

See, there is such a thing as a "hot water heater"

That is also a pet peeve of mine. No need to heat hot water!!!


Mike. If you separate the hot water systems, It will work great. With the duel system, You won't have to worry about people taking showers at the same time. Just remember that you will need to turn the small heater on early enough to give it time to heat the water before using that bath.


Just an FYI, it's spelled dual in this instance. :D

Mike,

No matter what the project, I'd be honored to help you and your sweetie.

Now I can't gurantee that any actual work will get done (hence my house still in shambles some 4 years later), but if there was some cold adult beverages, there would be no problem whatsoever with getting rid of them. I could supervise you while trying to maintain sobriety.

Maybe I can ask my co-workers on your situation, perhaps by the cold water cooler ;)

I also think you can solder your own fittings. There is not much pipe or many fittings needed for this. I wouldn't convert to PEX just for a few feet. Most important thing is to get all the water out of the lines. If you can't gravity drain, use compressed air or put a plug of white bread in the pipes (no kidding).

My first copper soldering job happened when a buddy developed a leaky pipe on a Sunday and called me in a panic. We got to the lumber yard just before it closed for parts. I guess he figured I knew enough to trust me even though I'd never actually done it -- and it worked. Done several small copper projects since then.