Going to be doing a home project putting in 12x12 ceramic floor tiling in the bathrooms. Any pointers? Not too difficult is it?

Went to the floor tile clinic at Home Depot one Saturday and got their book, seems pretty straightforward, tear up the vinyl floor (no asbestos) put down backerboard, level floor, measure up and square your center lines for the tiles, lay them out for a dry run, put down adhesive/mortar, tiles and grout.

The one thing I'm not sure about is how to install a new threshold in the doorway between the tile and the carpet.

I'm no expert, but one pointer: They look much better layed out at a 45 degree angle instead of square to the room. You also have a better looking edge along walls this way.

For the threshold, cut the tile to butt up against the edge of the carpet with just enough space for screws into the subflooring to hold the threshold cover down.

when I did mine it had 5/8 underlayment board under the vinyl. I took that up and put back down the 1/2 thick wonderboard cement board on top of the subfloor. That combo with the thickness of the tile sits at the same height as the carpet. Then I used a piece of aluminum that is made to go under the edge tile and has an lip to hold the carpet in place. I would recommend you might think of using a larger tile. In small spaces bigger tiles make the room look larger. I know that seems strange but it is true. I used 18x18 tile in my bathroom, worked out great.

I'm no expert, but one pointer: They look much better layed out at a 45 degree angle instead of square to the room.

I was going to say the same thing but its extra work to do it and I don't know if you really want to tackle angled tile for a bathroom cause it's so small and you got the toliet sinks to get around.

I had a 12'x12' family room angled w/12"x12" tiles and put in an intermittent 4"x4" piece to contrast the tile some. Got compliments every
someone saw it.

My little advise is pick a grout color as dark as you can stand. No matter how much you seal it it will get dirty. Especially in the bathroom where people with dirty feet are walking around before they get in the shower and then dripping water all over after they get out.

Jay,

My best advice is to go to http://johnbridge.com/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1 and ask your questions there. Fantastic site with fantastic people.

With their help I did this -
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1052/1434471548_5835f72cd4_o.jpg

Get an electric wet tile saw (not the kind that you score the tile and break it). We did our whole kitchen with a $75 dollar saw from Home Depot that cut as well on the last tile as it did on the first tile.

45's do look great, but a lot of extra cutting, and you will go through more tile too (more partial cuts get thrown away)

Just finished doing my 12x20 kitchen with 13x13's... Looks awesome... Wow it was a lot of work though...

i guess its personal preference, i like em 90 degrees not 45, you could stagger them if you want... is your floor quite sturdy already? (not too flexible if you bounce on it?)... if so you could get away with going right over plywood, the added layer is really there only for stiffness (although you could argue concrete board in a bathroom can give you some moisture control to the subfloor). More than likely you will need to add some stiffness to the floor, in the form of a backer board or 1/2 plywood, or consider using the Schluter subfloor (looks like orange 'lego' sheet)... for the transition you can use a grout in transition strip from a tile store (or HD but they have less selection) or use one that you install after, they sell one that uses screws/clips on a stainless transition so you dont see any screws... also use a thinset with latex additive, its only a few bucks more for a bag, but its more flexible and has better adhesion (is mandatory over plywood)...

in terms of layout, if its not a massive bathroom you might consider a full tile along the wall without fixtures (if you're layout is like that) versus centering, the other wall might have the cabinet, toilet etc. so being centered isnt that relevant...

ak

A little note.

Measure the width and length of the room.After you put down the underlayment(whichever kind you decide on),mark the center of the room, at each end, both ways.
Then pop lines down with chalk.If you pop the line in the air first,it won't be as wide when you put it on the floor. When you start laying the tile,dry lay the first one each way on the center lines.Measure the distance each way from the center marks to the edge of the tile and mark the floor to corrispond with the size tile you will be using.This will keep the mail line straight,as well as the rest of the floor.Remember the tile probably will not be 12" or 8" or what ever.It usually measures 1/4" under.And then,work outward from there.This will keep the tile centered in the room.If the room is cut up quite a bit you may want the tile centered on a certain area.

"I'll give an example";Let's say you have a walk in shower.You want to make the shower walls and the floor in front of the shower uniform.In that case,I would lay out the floor to make it happen. The way you lay it out is up to you but this gives you something to think about.

A few more things.
#1 I have never seen a professional tile layer use spacers.They say it hinders them. And I've been building Comercial Bldgs.for 17 yrs.
#2 Don't walk on the layed tile for at least 24 hrs.:noway: and then only if absoultely necessary.
#3 After around 36 hrs., @ 60 degrees or warmer, the floor will be ready for you to clean the joints and vaccum the residue up.Be careful as the tile will still come loose.The guys we use clean the joints with a wet sponge as they lay the tile and after it has dried they use a utility knife.
#4 When you start to grout; start in a corner and work your way towards the door.
#5 If you plan on using epoxy grout,read the instructions first,then burn them. No,seriously don't..I promise,That stuff will set up on the tile FASTER than what they say and you will NEVER get it off.I used it in my shower and after ten minutes of wait time,what the instructions reccomended, it was so thick,it took me almost an hour to get it off the tile. To this day there are a couple of small places where it is still there..............I did however use it on the surround of the juccuzi with much better results.
#6 If you do use the epoxy grout,do not walk on it for the time the instructions say.If you get a stain on it before it fully cures,the stain will never come off.

Sorry for the long post.I didn't know if you had ever tackled a project like this before.BTW,it took me almost two weeks to lay the 367 sq.ft. in my master bath.(Floor is square,walls are on a 45)The hall bath took 165 sq.ft. and only took 3 days.By the time I got to the 3rd.bath I had it down pat.

Here's a project I completed last year:
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i217/JD12585/house/th_Before.jpg (http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i217/JD12585/house/Before.jpg)

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i217/JD12585/house/th_100_2498sm.jpg (http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i217/JD12585/house/100_2498sm.jpg)
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i217/JD12585/house/th_100_2499sm.jpg (http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i217/JD12585/house/100_2499sm.jpg)
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i217/JD12585/house/th_100_2500sm.jpg (http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i217/JD12585/house/100_2500sm.jpg)
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i217/JD12585/house/th_100_2501sm.jpg (http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i217/JD12585/house/100_2501sm.jpg)
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i217/JD12585/house/th_100_2502sm.jpg (http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i217/JD12585/house/100_2502sm.jpg)

I'll 2nd most all of the advise given here. I'm an "amatuer" handyman type, and did all the tile work in this room. Tips:

* Just go slow, measure & re-measure.
* Spend a LOT of time on your layout work, and triple-check.
* Buy 10% extra of all tile pieces. (Even if you have to throw out nearly a full box, you won't be stuck).
* Plan your tile layout so you won't have "slivers" of tile near an edge... split the difference side to side.
* Try and have all your cut or undersize tiles in the least visible corners or on the least visible edge (under the cabinets/toilet).
* Dry-fit the job!
* If this is your 1st tile job, use the spacers. It'll really help keep things in alignment... worth the PITA to pick 'em out later.
* Spend the time to really clean the "squeeze-out" from your grout lines/grooves once the mortar has stiffened/set up!
* Spend the $79 - $99 for a "re-modelers special" cheapo wet-saw! It WILL save you money & time in the long run!
* Follow all mixing directions on thinset & grout to the letter.
* Start out small on mixing batches of thinset & grout. Once you find out how much you can do before it sets up, increase your mix amount.

Lots of good advice already. Here are a few more points.

Get an angle grinder with a four inch diamond tile blade. This will help you clean up corners and cut odd shapes.

With ceramic tile, I've had good luck with a score/snap type cutter. It's much faster for all your straight cuts. Won't work for thin strips or inside corners though.

Mix up your thin set in small quantities and spread it out for 6-8 tiles at a time.

When using tile spacers, stand them up so they are easy to remove.

I also use the carpet edge that goes under the tile and then leaves a lip to tuck the carpet under. Very clean looking, no nails.

Hey Jay, why don't you stop in my store in N Royalton and I'll give you the lowdown, depending on when you do it I could probably come over and give you a hand..


Or call me anytime 440-537-2132

Jay. Doing tile on a 45% diagonal isn't probably the best route to go if you've never done it before. It takes a lot more effort and calculations than a straight lay does. I've been setting tile for 22 years now and as much as I like the look of the diagonal, I sure hate doing it because of the extra time it takes, Although I do charge accordingly for that extra time. ;)

Zeke offers some good advice about the grinder. That's what I use 95% of the time. It's very versatile once you get the feel of it. You gotta loose the safety guard to use it to it's full potential though.

I've also read Scotts posts when it comes to tile advice and he always seems to be on the money so I don't chime in much. ;) If he's willing to help out I don't see how you can go wrong. One thing I will say though is stay away from using spacers. They could hurt the layout of your job more than they might help, being that tile is not always the same size. Just grid the floor out with chalk lines in a four tile grid and you really can't go wrong as long as you know your first two lines are truely square. All you need to do is loose lay three tiles out end to end with the desired groutline you want and butt your tape measure up against the first one and measure the distance to the edge of the third one and bingo, that's the size of your four tile grid. You'll know the size of every cut before you ever mix up the first batch of mud and if you don't like the layout it's easy to adjust it before the first tile ever goes down.

Regards
Red

I was going to lay tile in the entries, the kitchen, a full bath and 3/4 bath. I'd never done tile before so I got the spacers - a friend that does tile stopped by and told me to take them back - I didn't listen and used them for the front entry. I used a 6 foot level for a straight edge for the rest and pitched the spacers :yes:

One thing I didn't see mentioned - if you have a "porous" tile like porcelain, SEAL IT BEFORE GROUTING !!!!! if you don't, the grout will be forced into the pores and won't come out. This will result in a forever "dirty / hazy" look to the tile.

Now I am an amatuer so this may be aginst the rules, but it worked for me - my bathroom is small. I wanted to make it feel a bit bigger so I bought 9x12 tile. THis gave more joints/foot in one direction than the other to give it an illusion of being a bit bigger. That plus a pedestal sink made a huge difference.

I echo the advice of dark grout (boy my wrist was sore mixing it by hand!) and the cheapo wet tile saw.

For straight cuts I scored the tile with an old glass cutter and then using straight peice of wire coat hanger under the score, just stepped on the tile quickly and it was a perfect cut every time (too cheap to buy the right too, will do so next time).


What I do not know is how often should I re-seal the tiles?

The great thing about tile is that you can get really creative if you want. I've tiled floors (ceramic), showers (porcelain), and counter tops (granite) in my last home. As some have stated, buy a cheap electric wet saw -- you won't regret it. I also like to use the pre-mixed latex mastic to attach the tiles to the desired surface. Take the time to look for and visit tile stores in your area. The selection of materials is usually better, and they often have a lot of displays that can help give you some really good ideas on layouts and accents. Don't forget to seal your grout after it cures, and if you use porous materials like marble or other natural stone, get the right sealer for those as well.

Have fun,
Dave

Thanks for the advice all. :thumbsup: This will be my first time working with tile so it's good to hear from those who have done this before or do it for a living. I already measured out the rooms and bought 12x12 tiles with 10% extra for cuts/waste. Think I'll keep it simple and go with the straight lay but the 45 angle looks sharp. A cheap wet saw sounds like a good tool. Scott, I'll have to drop by your store sometime.

Jay. Doing tile on a 45% diagonal isn't probably the best route to go if you've never done it before. It takes a lot more effort and calculations than a straight lay does. I've been setting tile for 22 years now and as much as I like the look of the diagonal, I sure hate doing it because of the extra time it takes, Although I do charge accordingly for that extra time. ;)

Zeke offers some good advice about the grinder. That's what I use 95% of the time. It's very versatile once you get the feel of it. You gotta loose the safety guard to use it to it's full potential though.

I've also read Scotts posts when it comes to tile advice and he always seems to be on the money so I don't chime in much. ;) If he's willing to help out I don't see how you can go wrong. One thing I will say though is stay away from using spacers. They could hurt the layout of your job more than they might help, being that tile is not always the same size. Just grid the floor out with chalk lines in a four tile grid and you really can't go wrong as long as you know your first two lines are truely square. All you need to do is loose lay three tiles out end to end with the desired groutline you want and butt your tape measure up against the first one and measure the distance to the edge of the third one and bingo, that's the size of your four tile grid. You'll know the size of every cut before you ever mix up the first batch of mud and if you don't like the layout it's easy to adjust it before the first tile ever goes down.

Regards
Red

Thanks for the kind words, and your above advise is right on the money :thumbsup: A grid is the ONLY way to go for setting floor tile... As far as the diagonal, I can show you a trick for this to make it a LOT faster :yes:



Thanks for the advice all. :thumbsup: This will be my first time working with tile so it's good to hear from those who have done this before or do it for a living. I already measured out the rooms and bought 12x12 tiles with 10% extra for cuts/waste. Think I'll keep it simple and go with the straight lay but the 45 angle looks sharp. A cheap wet saw sounds like a good tool. Scott, I'll have to drop by your store sometime.

Jay, I'm not sure if I ever gave you a business card, but my store is at 9591 York-Alpha Drive, in North Royalton always best to call before you come just to make sure I'm here...

I can show you how to lay a grid out, it's kind of hard to explain, but a LOT easier to show you...

If you really want to do it yourself (nothing wrong with that) I could come over and help get it all layed out and snap the grids on the floor...

Oh, here's another little tip, when you lay your grid out, get a can of hair spray and spray it over your chalk lines so you don't wipe them off the floor as you work..

Here is a tip or two for putting down your cement backer board. Trowel down thinset and lay your backer board into that. It helps to absorb the stresses from expantion and contraction giving you a lesser chance of cracks in the grout or tile.
Also I allways use a pnuematic roofing gun to fasten down the cement board. The large head surface of the fastners grab and hold the board down without penetrating the surface. Plus its much faster. The board needs to be nailed every two to three inches on the perimeter and every six inched throughout the field.

[quote=ak 67SD;1807095]i is your floor quite sturdy already? (not too flexible if you bounce on it?)... if so you could get away with going right over plywood, the added layer is really there only for stiffness (although you could argue concrete board in a bathroom can give you some moisture control to the subfloor). More than likely you will need to add some stiffness to the floor, in the form of a backer board or 1/2 plywood, or consider using the Schluter subfloor (looks like orange 'lego' sheet).

Ceramic tile should never be put down directly over plywood. The tile will not bond well enough to the board. You may get away with it , but if you do consider yourself lucky. If you bond ceramic to any kind of wood after it cures you can pry up the entire tile without breaking it. If you try that with cement board you won't be able to pry up a piece larger than an inch or two in diameter without the tile breaking. In other words it bonds much better to anything cement based. Also adding cement board to your floor will not add any stability. Cement board is not structural. It is only used as a bonding medium. If your floor needs added structural stability that has to be accomplished with some type of wood underlayment. If you want to use plywood as your underlayment (without cement board on top) you should fasten steel diamond mesh to it and then float that with thinset. The Schluter system is a good alternative to the cement board.

Probably already inferred, but make sure your surface is FLAT.

[quote=ak 67SD;1807095]i is your floor quite sturdy already? (not too flexible if you bounce on it?)... if so you could get away with going right over plywood, the added layer is really there only for stiffness (although you could argue concrete board in a bathroom can give you some moisture control to the subfloor). More than likely you will need to add some stiffness to the floor, in the form of a backer board or 1/2 plywood, or consider using the Schluter subfloor (looks like orange 'lego' sheet).

Ceramic tile should never be put down directly over plywood. The tile will not bond well enough to the board. You may get away with it , but if you do consider yourself lucky. If you bond ceramic to any kind of wood after it cures you can pry up the entire tile without breaking it. If you try that with cement board you won't be able to pry up a piece larger than an inch or two in diameter without the tile breaking. In other words it bonds much better to anything cement based. Also adding cement board to your floor will not add any stability. Cement board is not structural. It is only used as a bonding medium. If your floor needs added structural stability that has to be accomplished with some type of wood underlayment. If you want to use plywood as your underlayment (without cement board on top) you should fasten steel diamond mesh to it and then float that with thinset. The Schluter system is a good alternative to the cement board.

Hmmmmmm, I hate to come on here and argue, BUT we do about 100 homes a year for one of our builders over 1/2" exterior grade plywood (CDX) and have been doing so for YEARS and have had little to no trouble at all..

Don't get me wrong, I personally prefer going over some sort of cement board or Ditra Mat (the schluter system) but I can't argue with a 13 year record..

The big thing is that the floor meets spec, and for plywood or cement board the spec is that the subloor needs to be 2 layers and be 1.25" thick.. The ditra mat can be installed right over the 3/4" plywood or OSB though..

Also, I have found that when going over plywood, it helps to mix the thinset a LITTLE on the loose side, wipe the plywood with a damp sponge (to slow down adsorption), then "key" the thinset into the plywood with the back side of the trowel before spreading it..

[quote=blm;1808407]

Hmmmmmm, I hate to come on here and argue, BUT we do about 100 homes a year for one of our builders over 1/2" exterior grade plywood (CDX) and have been doing so for YEARS and have had little to no trouble at all..

Don't get me wrong, I personally prefer going over some sort of cement board or Ditra Mat (the schluter system) but I can't argue with a 13 year record..

The big thing is that the floor meets spec, and for plywood or cement board the spec is that the subloor needs to be 2 layers and be 1.25" thick.. The ditra mat can be installed right over the 3/4" plywood or OSB though..

Also, I have found that when going over plywood, it helps to mix the thinset a LITTLE on the loose side, wipe the plywood with a damp sponge (to slow down adsorption), then "key" the thinset into the plywood with the back side of the trowel before spreading it..
Would you care to argue with my statement that ceramic tile bonded to wood can be taken up in one piece compared to ceramic tile bonded to any proper concrete based substance? That is a fact. I am also willing to bet the ceramic tile council doesn't recommend tile installation directly on plywood be it CDX, Exterior Grade or any other grade. Like I said you might get away with it and if you do condsider yourself lucky. Just because someone does something for thirteen years and doesn't have any problems doesn't make it correct, just lucky. I installed floors for 25 years professionally. Ceramic,Hardwood,Vinyl,Laminate and Carpet so I know a little about what I'm talking about and claiming here. By the way just so you don't think I'm BSing you, I hold a Master certification from CFI.

TCA ABSOLUTELY does recognize plywood as an accepted subfloor(pages 18 & 19 if you'd like to look it up)!! And NO I would not challenge your statement about it bonding better to cement, what I AM saying is it isn't as bad as some people (such as yourself) make it out to be, ESPECIALLY in small areas that don't have large unsupported spans...


AGAIN, I'm not saying it's by any means MY preferred meathod of installation, but if properly prepaired it will hold up just fine..

.......And I'd rather not say what I think about the CFI, I'm not saying you were/are not good at what you do, but that piece of paper sure doesn't impress me.....

Let me ask you a question and please answer honsestly. Have you ever had problems with cracks be it in the tile or grout in a ceramic tile installation that was put down directly over wood, whether you considered it an insufficient subfloor thickness or just a poor installation?

Let me ask you a question and please answer honsestly. Have you ever had problems with cracks be it in the tile or grout in a ceramic tile installation that was put down directly over wood, whether you considered it an insufficient subfloor thickness or just a poor installation?

Sure we have, we do hundreds of jobs a year.. But most of them were found to be due to excessive spans, or lack of proper cross blocking..

And for the record, we have also had problems over cement board, pro float, and modified mud jobs... With ceramic tile, if the floor moves, the tile breaks..it just doesn't bend..

Honestly, I was completely apposed to doing these jobs over plywood way back in the day, but as the time went on I found that for the most part, we really don't have the problems that even I had anticipated..And it's really hard to sell a builder on a ,more expensive underlayment when they're not having problems with what they're using..

I will say that in the several thousand jobs we've installed over plywood, we have had a handfull that didn't bond well because of some kind of oil that was found in the particular batch of plywood..But even that's out of our control, as the builder installs their own subfloor..

I'm really not trying to be a hardnose here, just trying to make the point that wood can be used as subfloor for ceramic tile..

I will agree that wood can be used as a subfloor for tile and I'm quite sure that builders are not willing to pay for the added exspense of using backer board. Will you not agree that builders will take any and all measures to cut building exspenses. All they are looking for is for the property to make it past warrenty and then they don't care in the thing crumbles to the ground. What we are talking about here ( at least I am)is the proper way to install it.
I'll give a small example of using backer board. I installed a ceramic floor over 2 X 8 floor joists that was covered with 5/8 ths OSB. Over that I put down 1/4 inch Hardibacker. The floor has 12 ft spans. This floor has been down 15 years with not a single crack in the tile or grout. I would venture to say if I would have covered with 1/4 inch plywood (which would have added to stability) I would have had cracks all over the place. This is just an example ot the minimums that can be achieved. Also I don't have a tile council of america handbook here but I did go to their website and this is what I found in the frequently ask questions section. (Question) Are there any reasons I might have cracks/loose/hollow tile. Amongst other answers was the following. " Over wood floor failure is more likely -movement in the subfloor can cause grout to break away from the tile compounding the instability of the flooring" Lets look at another analogy. I can take my cheapo wallmart floor jack and jack up my Chevelle 50 times and crawl underneath and pull the transmission any get away with it. Does that mean on the 51st time it won't collaspe and kill me as I lay underneath and when that unfortunate thing happens it will be said the failure or my death was caused by not doing it the right way. When your company eats a floor that is installed over plywood is the manufacturer going to say it was your fault?

I have to correct the statement I made the example I used was not correct. The floor was 2 X 8 joists with 5/8ths OSB but had an additional 1/4 inch Luan on top of that, then the Hardibacker.

I hear what you're saying and do agree to a large degree, but I do have a few issues with your first analogy....The first is that you proposed to put 1/4" plywood over 5/8" OSB, that's only 7/8" SURE IT's GOING TO FAIL, you're no where near the 1 &1/4" that is required..Now if you used 3/4" over it it would be just fine....To be completely honest, I would prefer plywood over hardy backer, that stuff is nothing more then glorified cardboard...

I have been installing since 1986, and inside as a store owner for 13 years, I can tell you that I have seen a LOT of stuff that other people (mostly DIYers) have done, that I have NO EXPLAINATION how it didn't just blow of the floor, and I have also seen jobs that everything was done by the book and yet there are problems...

The long and short is, you are EXACTLY correct in saying that CBU's are a preferred method of installation BUT I simply disagree with your statement "Ceramic tile should never be put down directly over plywood. The tile will not bond well enough to the board. You may get away with it , but if you do consider yourself lucky."

Respectfully,
Scott

As for me, my preference is to use the shluter Detra system, it's just a better mouse trap.. But that's just MY .02;):D

I also want to make myself PERFECTLY clear that this is not intended to be an argument, just a professional debate:thumbsup:

Now I'll turn Jays hijacked thread back over to him :thumbsup:

I have to correct the statement I made the example I used was not correct. The floor was 2 X 8 joists with 5/8ths OSB but had an additional 1/4 inch Luan on top of that, then the Hardibacker.

see, now you screwed up my whole rebuttal :D:beers:

just be honest, how loud did you curse when you re read your post and saw the omittid information???:p

Scott: I agree that this is just a debate. Well,I guess we can also agree that the Detra system is the best.Finally, I think you will agree that 69 Chevelle owners tend to be more intelligent and better looking than other Chevelle owners.;)
Brad

Only thing I'm going to say if it hasn't already been said is to pull everything out of the room that can be removed and do the whole floor so in case later you want to change out a sink cabinet or whatever, it's tiled 100 percent under it.

pdq67

Not to stir the pot a bit more, but the thickness of the subfloor is only a guide based on construction (i.e. the floor deflection) based on minimum code - generally what builders build to, since going over and above costs $.... you can tile over a single layer of 3/4 plywood if the deflection is minimal (i dont remember the # off hand, but residential floor deflection is quite high, like L/240, commercial probably L/360, for example vs. L/600). The scenario of whether a tile will crack when you pull it off plywood or concrete board really has no bearing on how it will stand up, none whatsoever... the substrate should fail when doing an adhesion test (i.e. the plywood will tear apart)... this isnt the test of durable floor however. I would lay tile over a single layer of plywood (not osb) without hesitation if the floor is stiff enough (a typical house floor is not) i have it in my place, and there are no cracks ....why use more material than you have too? eventually the rate of benefit to cost diminishes... ditra is nice but pricey...but i have used their shower system in my house....

p.s. pdq67 gave great advice about going under the millwork etc... if not at least save enough tile/grout to patch it in later...

I'll put in my 2 cents about tiling over plywood.

The US is to anal about it. Up here in Canada we've been doing it for decades with great success. I've seen jobs done over plywood that were done before the invention of latex modified thinset, let alone even liquid acrylic mortar additive, that are holding up just fine. How did they do it back then??? They used one of the old outdated oil based mastics and coated the whole floor with it the day before they tiled it. I myself have never done it that way because it was before my time in the industry. I would never think twice about tiling over plywood but,,,,,,, the floor must be thick enough with VERY minimal deflection. If it's not, all bets are off. There are products on the market now that will stick to almost anything and plywood is by far a pretty easy substrate to stick to compared to some things. If the floor is questionable just give me a bag or two of regular non-latex thin-set and a jug of Mapei Keralastic and I'll warranty the job for 20+ years. Tile WILL stick to plywood just fine if it's done right the first time.

Regards
Red

word to the wise...listen to what the above posts are telling you with regard to the floor deflection..i had tiles crack in my kitchen after slapping down some tile and not taking the time to think it all out...my kitchen floor did have some bounce in it, and apparently it was too much for the tiles...the grout held up fine though...hairline cracks developed in about 3 months.

on mine we used the thin hardibacker and hardibacker screws right down over the original (builder grade) vinyl flooring, then tiled over the hardibacker.

i am confident that I could have avoided the headache by bracing up the floor joists underneath, but i never thought it would be that much of an issue, but i guess it was just enough.

i solved the problem by selling the house!

I gotta say this.

i think I recenty read where the MoDOT and the KsDOT may be patching the I-70 Missouri River Bridge after like 50 years b/c they originally poured the deck w/ concrete containing Latex paint type of additive!

Think about this for a bit b/c until recently I didn't know this was done to improve strengths to slow down cracking over time.

pdq67

If the floor is questionable just give me a bag or two of regular non-latex thin-set and a jug of Mapei Keralastic and I'll warranty the job for 20+ years. Tile WILL stick to plywood just fine if it's done right the first time.

Regards
Red

IMHO, Keralastic/ Kerabond is the BEST setting system BAR NONE... Rule of thumb is that if you can't get it off your hands, you can't get it off the floor;):thumbsup:

Scott: I agree that this is just a debate. Well,I guess we can also agree that the Detra system is the best.Finally, I think you will agree that 69 Chevelle owners tend to be more intelligent and better looking than other Chevelle owners.;)
Brad

Now, those are 2 points even I couldn't debate :D:beers:

I absolutely agree, the kerabond/lastic is the best stuff out there, I've been using it for years. never a call back when I used this product, and under the right conditions I have used it over plywood. The key to going over plywood is that the first sheet obviously is nailed into the joists, the top sheet then gets screwed into the first sheet, but NOT into the joists. This allows the two sheets to slide just enough on each other, so that the WOOD is moving when the house moves and not the tile. The tile is bonded to the top ply sheet, which slides on the bottom sheet. Movement is guaranteed, you just need to put that movement in the right place! With that being said,I always prefer to tile over the cement backer, as you are almost guaranteeing no problems. I don't have the experience that Brad and scott have, as I've only been installing professionally for 4 years now, (and still learning) but these guidelines have worked very well for me. Now, I must get out and drive that Chevelle!

I absolutely agree, the kerabond/lastic is the best stuff out there, I've been using it for years. never a call back when I used this product, and under the right conditions I have used it over plywood. The key to going over plywood is that the first sheet obviously is nailed into the joists, the top sheet then gets screwed into the first sheet, but NOT into the joists. This allows the two sheets to slide just enough on each other, so that the WOOD is moving when the house moves and not the tile. The tile is bonded to the top ply sheet, which slides on the bottom sheet. Movement is guaranteed, you just need to put that movement in the right place! With that being said,I always prefer to tile over the cement backer, as you are almost guaranteeing no problems. I don't have the experience that Brad and scott have, as I've only been installing professionally for 4 years now, (and still learning) but these guidelines have worked very well for me. Now, I must get out and drive that Chevelle!

John, you're right on the money !! the other thing I would add is that it is imperative that the top layer of plywood is installed with slight gaps between the sheets.. If they're fitted tight the tile can actually be pushed right off the floor as the wood expands with moisture..

Yep, good point Scott. Hey,I just noticed we're like gumbahs. I'm part Salerno. My mom's name. John

Small world...:beers: