I can't get anything but air bubbles and fluid from my brake system. Started dry-new lines, calipers, master, everything. Bench bled master, started at right rear, but tried all 4 corners. I tried clamping in the little button from previous posts I have read. I tried wide open and full reduction on the proportioning valve and have pumped about 2 1/2 quarts of fluid through with a hand pump vacuum bleeder that has worked in the past:mad::angry:. All that I have accomplished is a large mess of brake fluid. I can't believe it is getting the best of me. Any suggestions on power bleeders and the best one to buy or possible problems and yes I have read all the old posts I could find.

Yup, you'll spend the rest of your life trying to bleed that thing with a vacuum bleeder. And you'll N-E-V-E-R stop getting air bubbles...

...because you're pulling air around the threads of the loose bleeder screws...

...and maybe past the rubber cups in the rear wheel cylinders.

Neither the bleeder screws nor the cups in the drum brake wheel cylinders were ever designed to seal a vacuum.

I HATE VACUUM BLEEDING. And I don't have much good to say about fancy tools for "Reverse Injection" bleeding, either.

If the system is empty--like yours was--I pressure bleed using a bleeder that has a rubber diaphragm between the brake fluid and the pressurized air chamber. I use a Branick pressure bleeder exactly like this one--although I bought it from the local NAPA store a few years ago.

http://www.sjdiscounttools.com/brag300.html

"Pressure bleeders" that don't separate the air from the fluid--they look like garden sprayers--are SPECIFICALLY NOT RECOMMENDED. They're cheap--but they're JUNK.

If I've only opened up the wheel cylinders/calipers I'll gravity bleed.

Mike - I've been struggling with the same - I have the hand pump bleeder, an electric pump, speed bleeders, puddles of fluid, etc. I just order a motive bleeder from summit that is a smaller version of the one linked above.....


edit - sorry - the motive one is not the bladder style - it's the garden style sprayer one referenced above - but it is no worse than the home made plate method used by others.....

hi, i used the power bleeder(the little job that screws into the wheel cyl) with great luck when nothing else worked. One is about 5 bucks.

I am in the same position. I even tried the pumping the brake pedal method and the gravity method also and still no luck getting all the air out?
What next get someone over that has a $364.32 pressure bleeder to do it for me?

What next get someone over that has a $364.32 pressure bleeder to do it for me?
Any of the local parts stores have one that they will loan out?

Or, just buy one and return it when done. I'm guilty of this. :o

Make a power bleeder out of a 1/4 inch plate of aluminum or steel. The idea is to clamp it on the top of the master with a c clamp and then pressurize one circuit (front/rear)at a time with about 10 - 15 lbs of air pressure. Then go around and open your bleeders, farthest ones first. Use the actual master cover gasket between the plate an the master to seperate the air from the brake fluid. You have to drill a hole in the plate off-center so you can pressurize one side at a time. Pipe tap in some threads and buy a brass fitting with a hose barb on the end. Pressurize it anyway you can. A bike tire pump would probably work. I used compressed air with a regulator and regulated to 15 psi. Make sure you master is bench bled first. Also, at 10-15 psi, it will empty your reservoir in a few seconds. Dont let that happen or you'll be starting over.
It took me about 2 hrs total to make one and it works better than anything else I tried including vacuum pumps, gravity bleeding, two man bleeding and auto bleeders. If I had a pic of the contraption, I'd post it. Cost to make it was probably about $15 bucks, but I already had a regulator.

I just bled my monte, gravity bled it, even started with a dry master cylinder, had to pump the pedal a few times to get the fluid moving, nice "high and hard" pedal :D

Make a power bleeder out of a 1/4 inch plate of aluminum or steel. The idea is to clamp it on the top of the master with a c clamp and then pressurize one circuit (front/rear)at a time with about 10 - 15 lbs of air pressure. Then go around and open your bleeders, farthest ones first. Use the actual master cover gasket between the plate an the master to seperate the air from the brake fluid. You have to drill a hole in the plate off-center so you can pressurize one side at a time. Pipe tap in some threads and buy a brass fitting with a hose barb on the end. Pressurize it anyway you can. A bike tire pump would probably work. I used compressed air with a regulator and regulated to 15 psi. Make sure you master is bench bled first. Also, at 10-15 psi, it will empty your reservoir in a few seconds. Dont let that happen or you'll be starting over.
It took me about 2 hrs total to make one and it works better than anything else I tried including vacuum pumps, gravity bleeding, two man bleeding and auto bleeders. If I had a pic of the contraption, I'd post it. Cost to make it was probably about $15 bucks, but I already had a regulator.

Now that I can understand all above. Just one question.
The rubber master cylinder gasket I will buy another one for this. Do you have to cut out a hole through the gasket so the pressurized air will be able to push the fluid. With out getting restricted from a sealed off lid? I am talking just the rubber master cylinder seal.

Now that I can understand all above. Just one question.
The rubber master cylinder gasket I will buy another one for this. Do you have to cut out a hole through the gasket so the pressurized air will be able to push the fluid. With out getting restricted from a sealed off lid? I am talking just the rubber master cylinder seal.From my understanding, no.

No, the pressurized air will fill the space between the gasket and the plate. And as this air pushes on the gasket, the gasket will push on the fluid.

I purchased an extra gasket from an autoparts store to use for the bleeding. Its just one of those "help" parts gaskets. I see no reason why you cant use the one you already have though. The 10-15 psi air pressure wont hurt it. Also, no you dont want to put a hole in the gasket. The air pressure pushes on the gasket which forces the oil out. The gasket is made to expand.

I made a plate and did it like 70SS540. Worked like a charm when nothing else seemed to. Just don't let the reservoir get empty.

I use the motive bleeder on all my cars to change or bleed brake fluid when needed. In fact I'm doing it today on the Chevelle as I changed front brake hoses.
For this bleeder you need the correct adapter for each type of master cyclinder. I only needed 2

http://www.motiveproducts.com/02bleeders.html
Around $60

That easy I have a new small bug sprayer in my shop I can convert into one of those and put a air guage in it.

I use the motive bleeder on all my cars to change or bleed brake fluid when needed. In fact I'm doing it today on the Chevelle as I changed front brake hoses.
For this bleeder you need the correct adapter for each type of master cyclinder. I only needed 2

http://www.motiveproducts.com/02bleeders.html
Around $60

That easy I have a new small bug sprayer in my shop I can convert into one of those and put a air guage in it.
Yeah, those are EXACTLY the products I warned him about.

If there's no diaphragm to separate the fluid from the compressed air, the fluid absorbs humidity from the air pressurizing it.

It "works" but you end up pumping water-contaminated fluid into the system.

I'll say it again:

"Pressure bleeders" that don't separate the air from the fluid--they look like garden sprayers--are SPECIFICALLY NOT RECOMMENDED. They're cheap--but they're JUNK.

Yeah, those are EXACTLY the products I warned him about.

If there's no diaphragm to separate the fluid from the compressed air, the fluid absorbs humidity from the air pressurizing it.

It "works" but you end up pumping water-contaminated fluid into the system.

I'll say it again:

I'm trying to understand how you would get air in the sytem using the Motive power bleeder. You have the master filled with fluid, you put the adapter over the master and secure it so it don't leak under pressure. You have the Motive power bleeder filleed with a liter of Whisky, this time fluid and I pump to 10 lbs. The pressure keeps the Master filled as you drain fluid from each wheel cyclinder or caliper. I check pressure after working on each brake cyclinder. When done and you take the adapter off the Master, it is still filled and there are NO bubbles what so ever, not even tiny ones if you looked with a magnifying glass. It looks like its just a pushing of pressure from top of fluid in master and not mixing bubbes in master..............
Any way, a half hour and both front calipers are now bleeded and have a good pedal and on the test ride brakes work excellent.
Been doing this for a few years now with NO problem. The Wife loves it because she don't have to waste her time sitting in the car pumping the break when she should be in the house cleaning the floor :D

I'm trying to understand how you would get air in the sytem using the Motive power bleeder.
Who said anything about getting air in the system? I'm concerned with water- (humidity-) contaminated fluid, not air.

It "works" but you end up pumping water-contaminated fluid into the system.

Well them if you are worried about moisture in the air. I will just use my dive tank thats filled with pure/ moisture free air:yes: Its 100% dry air. Ok my dive tank is compressed to 4200psi and I have a reducer valve just so you know, LOL

Who said anything about getting air in the system? I'm concerned with water- (humidity-) contaminated fluid, not air.

Sorry about that, my bad. I replace fluid yearly so I see no probelm anyway

Well them if you are worried about moisture in the air. I will just use my dive tank thats filled with pure/ moisture free air:yes: Its 100% dry air. Ok my dive tank is compressed to 4200psi and I have a reducer valve just so you know, LOL

Yes Brad, Dive tank will work. just make sure you have the pressure set correctly and Life insurance paid up :D

Great info guys, thanks. Shortly after posting I pulled my head out of you know where and tried the gravity bleeding again. The rears are what I was having problems with...a mutt 4 wheel disc setup w/ hose adapters, adj. prop valve, etc. Turns out there was no problem. The vacuum bleeder got the fluid siphon going and after a quart of fluid realized it was in fact pulling air around the bleeds. I gravity bled them and literally watched the last few bubbles disapper:yes:The fronts were already done:clonk: from the first attempt at gravity bleeding. solid fluid, no bubbles:hurray:. After getting the proper adapter for master/booster incompatibility issues (another story) I am good to go! What a relief:thumbsup: Sure can be frustrating. I am however going to make a plate with a fitting and try to pressure bleed and see if the pedal gets even better. Thanks for the tip on using a gasket between the fluid and air to prevent moisture absorption...never made sense until now.

The motiv bug sprayer worked great for me. The only issue I found was that the plastic top had a hard time sealing to the MC. I couldn't get it to hold more than 5lbs of pressure until I reinforced the top with a steel plate and some angle iron. After that I ended two weeks of pain and suffering in only 20 minutes.

If using a hand bleeder you have to pump slow or else you will get the bubbles.

I bench bled my master on the car with a master cylinder bleeding tool complete w check valves. Then cracked the right rear bleeder, and attached a mityvac pulled suction on it till i saw fluid then gravity bled till all the air bubbles ceased to come out, hi and hard pedal. Keep in mind this was on a DRY system. I mean all new components including lines and prop valve.:cool:

The motiv bug sprayer worked great for me. The only issue I found was that the plastic top had a hard time sealing to the MC. I couldn't get it to hold more than 5lbs of pressure until I reinforced the top with a steel plate and some angle iron. After that I ended two weeks of pain and suffering in only 20 minutes.

I did the same as far as leaking, but I just tightened the adapter more than I had, and went to 10 lbs and that solved the problem

Great info guys, thanks. Shortly after posting I pulled my head out of you know where and tried the gravity bleeding again. The rears are what I was having problems with...a mutt 4 wheel disc setup w/ hose adapters, adj. prop valve, etc. Turns out there was no problem. The vacuum bleeder got the fluid siphon going and after a quart of fluid realized it was in fact pulling air around the bleeds. I gravity bled them and literally watched the last few bubbles disapper:yes:The fronts were already done:clonk: from the first attempt at gravity bleeding. solid fluid, no bubbles:hurray:. After getting the proper adapter for master/booster incompatibility issues (another story) I am good to go! What a relief:thumbsup: Sure can be frustrating. I am however going to make a plate with a fitting and try to pressure bleed and see if the pedal gets even better. Thanks for the tip on using a gasket between the fluid and air to prevent moisture absorption...never made sense until now.

If you're sucking air around the bleeders, a little dab of grease on the threads will seal them up.

I did the same as far as leaking, but I just tightened the adapter more than I had, and went to 10 lbs and that solved the problem

Rich - I was doing that too, then I started worring about breaking the cover. I put a straight edge on the top and sure enough I was already bending it at the edges. I spend all of 5 minutes with the reinforcement. I had some 1/8" thick perforated angle left over from something - and the holes lined up perfect with the cover. But if you notice there is a lip on the edge of the cover to keep the bolt positioned properly. Under the angle iron I put some piece of 1/8" plate that was nearly the dimensions of the cover. That cleared the lip nicely. Probably none of this was needed - I just didn't want to risk breaking the top.

Now that they're bled I realize the 1 1/8" bore MC is not enough line pressure for the 4 way C5 setup. All these weeks of struggling with the bleed and I had the wrong part anyway. The stock C5 uses a 1" bore - so that's what I'm picking up today....

Rich - I was doing that too, then I started worring about breaking the cover. I put a straight edge on the top and sure enough I was already bending it at the edges.

Mike,
I saw that bend on mine, but was still holding good. Just incase and because of the leakage at first (first time using this adapter) I covered the Master with a trash bag. Nasty thoughts of the thing spraying brake fluid on my paint.
It worked fine, but just for peace of mind I will always use a trash bag to cover the adapter, hose and container.

FYI, the Branick pressure bleeder mentioned is a little cheaper ($300) at www.nationaltoolwarehouse.com if anyone needs one.

Subhuman

I only use a vacuum bleeder to start the process, after just open the bleeder, fill and kepp the master full, walk away, make lunch and go back and see what's going on.

Heres a pic of my homemade power bleeder.
http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd275/70SS540/brakebleeder.jpg
Couldnt have cost me much more than $10, but I already have a regulator. The steel lines with the fittings are for bleeding the master. I forgot to put the c-clamp in the pic. If I were to make another, I would use a bit thicker steel plate.