Just wondering if anyone knows of some no-hops that are like the art morrison with multiple holes to use for adjustment like the ones pictured here http://chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/148_0309_guide_08_z.jpg

If not are the Edelbrock ones a pretty stout and quality unit?

Tried the edelbrocks..too violent on the tires
Lakewood, too violent also

Dick Miller sells them, I use the lower of the two holes but he won't sell them too you unless you buy his upper control arms as well. You will need the upper adjustables to adjust the pinion angle and provide a slight amount of preload inthe right rear.

http://www.boomspeed.com/mc71454/no_hop.wmv

First launch is stock, second is with DM no-hops

I use the Edelbrock no hop bars and like them a lot. They are a quality piece at a very reasonable price, IMO. I did have to notch the webbing on the rear end in a couple of places, but it was no big deal. They could probably be installed without removing the rear end, but given the fact that some material needed to be removed I just to the rear out to make it easier. Average 60' times are in the 1.49-1.51 range. Best 60' in signature.

I removed the no-hop bars and look what happened..


http://home.swbell.net/kenladd/launchpicture4.bmp

Originally posted by gatewayracer:
I removed the no-hop bars and look what happened..


http://home.swbell.net/kenladd/launchpicture4.bmp Nice pic. Was that before or after you switched over to you're high compression alcohol motor? :D

Take a look at the Jeg's lift bars. They are the same design as the SSM's, but SSM is out of business. If you produce a diagram of all the intersection points and figure out the IC with the hop stops and the lift bars the lift bars provide a higher IC and a bit further forward. The edelbrock hop stops put the IC much further back and a little more down, yet still above the neutral line thus hitting the tires much harder. It's hard to say which setup is better as I have used both, but I have had much more success here lately with the lift bars. It's all about the entire setup though. One component is not going to be the cure without dialing in the rest of the chassis.

Originally posted by mc71454:
You will need the upper adjustables to adjust the pinion angle and provide a slight amount of preload inthe right rear.What do you mean by pre-load? Do you make the passenger side arm a little shorter than the driver side one? How much difference have you tried? Does that cause any negative effects, like binding or anything? Thanks!

Chris

I see in National Dragster that Lakewood has SSM lift bar clones, now. Metco makes some, too. The Metco's are aluminum.

I'm sure a lot of factors enter into which (lift bars or no-hops) work better for a particular car. I put Edelbrock no-hops on and still had hop. SSM bars got rid of it.

I run the trianglation braces, too. I didn't notice any improvement in 60' times but they became more consistant.

Nice pic. Was that before or after you switched over to you're high compression alcohol motor? What's your point? As if your car is a daily driver...Please.... tongue.gif

As you can see from the pics below my car is still basically in stock form, streetable with a carb swap (has quick change fittings), idles at 800 rpms and still weighs 3800lbs with driver:cool:

What does yours weigh? Also didn't you remove the interior and add a full cage? :D

So if you point is that your impressed with the engine's performance then thanks! :D

Now, back to my point! I have done everything to a stock suspension as possible on these cars and have found that using the stock instant center is better than using no-hop bars! The farther forward the instant center the more weight will be transferred to the rear!

All you have to figure out is how to keep the passenger side from squatting, which can be accomplished with the anti roll bar.

End of story! Case closed! graemlins/beers.gif

http://home.swbell.net/kenladd/interior2.jpg http://home.swbell.net/kenladd/chevelle9.jpg

Chris,

yes you shorten the right upper arm to put some pre-load in, this is especially useful to eliminate the air bag in the right rear. I have only a slight amount of pre-load since mine is a driver. I still use the airbag and QA1 12-way shocks to add the additional pre-load. On a race only car in theory you would keep shortening the upper arm until it launches straight. The car will look like the right side is higher than the left.....and it will be.

First you adjust your pinion angle with the left upper, then you attach the right upper then add one or two turns after the bar starts to get tight to add the pre-load.

Originally posted by gatewayracer:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Nice pic. Was that before or after you switched over to you're high compression alcohol motor? What's your point? As if your car is a daily driver...Please.... tongue.gif

As you can see from the pics below my car is still basically in stock form, streetable with a carb swap (has quick change fittings), idles at 800 rpms and still weighs 3800lbs with driver:cool:

What does yours weigh? Also didn't you remove the interior and add a full cage? :D

So if you point is that your impressed with the engine's performance then thanks! :D

Now, back to my point! I have done everything to a stock suspension as possible on these cars and have found that using the stock instant center is better than using no-hop bars! The farther forward the instant center the more weight will be transferred to the rear!

All you have to figure out is how to keep the passenger side from squatting, which can be accomplished with the anti roll bar.

End of story! Case closed! graemlins/beers.gif </font>[/QUOTE]A little defensive aren't we? My point was your car didn't start pulling the wheels like that just by losing the no hop bars. No slam meant, Ken. I like your car and it performs well. Each to his/her own. The no hop bars work fine on my car, but everyone is different. Tom and Pat K. both had issues with them and I respect their opinions as well. As for my car it has the factory bucket seats, rear seat, floor deadening, carpet, and 10lbs of factory rubber floor mats at each of the four seating positions! Today it went 10.77@124.95 in 3,500' air. Not bad for a 10:1 454 in a car weighing 3,730lbs and running through the tail pipes tongue.gif Here's a picture of the interior EXACTLY the way it is raced EVERY weekend (just add 10lbs worth of year one factory replacement rubber mats!)

http://bellsouthpwp.net/k/_/k_jett/Images/Temp/bardone4.jpg

Not defensive, just giving you a hard time.

All BS aside, even after the switch to alky it didn't pull the wheels but a few inches.

As soon as I removed the no-hop bars the front started coming up much higher with way better weight transfer.

5lb's in each air bag and properly adjusted anti roll bar leveled it out.

If you doubt what I'm saying, try it!

Very nice interior, A+! graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Originally posted by gatewayracer:
Not defensive, just giving you a hard time.

All BS aside, even after the switch to alky it didn't pull the wheels but a few inches.

As soon as I removed the no-hop bars the front started coming up much higher with way better weight transfer.

5lb's in each air bag and properly adjusted anti roll bar leveled it out.

If you doubt what I'm saying, try it!

Very nice interior, A+! graemlins/thumbsup.gif OK! That's better information. Please share your entire front and rear chassis setup as I don't think I've seen it posted in a while. I would also like to see any hard data you might have on 60' improvements assuming you installed the roll bar as its own project with no other changes. I've been considering a real anti roll bar for a while, but I didn't want to have to loose the tail pipes and/or my factory non sumped gas tank. I've been eying that new bolt in piece by HR Parts. I'm waiting for another TC member to try it to see how it works before ordering one myself.

On a side note, how do you like the alky? Your already running good numbers, will those numbers improve with better air or are alcohol engines not as affected as gas engines by changes in air/hum? One of my brother in law's friends (dead now, rest his soul) had a blown alcohol Camaro. I remember him starting that thing up at Super Chevy in Atlanta during the month of June (read wicked hot) and ran it for a couple minutes. When he shut it off the blower literally had ice on it!!!

My rear is basically the dick miller setup minus the no-hop bars and springs, with el-cheapo CE 3-way shocks and air bags. Up front I have the Moroso Trick springs and CE shocks with about 4-5 inches of travel and a 28 inch tire to bring the ride height back up.

Removing the no-hop will take away a number or two in the 60 foot(.01-.02) on a well prep'd track, but will plant the tire hard everytime and be more consistent with marginal track prep. No-hops just don't work well unless the track is right.

I haven't tried them yet but I think the 12 way QA1's would be ideal for dialing in the car for varying track conditions to adjust anti-squat as oposed to the bolt on no-hop bars which once installed can't be adjusted.

I've thought about moving the SSM liftbars back to the stock location too,to see what happens. Not sure if the bar itself is the same length as factory lower arms though. I guess I could adjust pinion angle with the uppers again.

Oh yah, and with the Alky I have run a quickest of 10:22 and slowest of 10.31 in a 110 heat index. This is no BS!!!! It's a little more work(very little) but well worth it IMO. You just have to do your home work before converting.

Also I have not really tuned the motor at all, pretty much dropped it in, set the timing to 36*, launch at 1800 rpms, shift at 6200. The same as when running 11teens last year. So I'm pretty confident there's a couple 10ths improvement left.

gatewayracer, nice ride. You can definately see that your rear suspension is planting the tires, looks like 2-3 inches of seperation judgeing from the photo of the car sitting still. I wonder how ride height plays into this. Your car may be a few inches higher or lower in the rear than many others changing the bar angles and pinion angle and affecting the way the no hop and ssm bars worked for you vs. how they worked for others. Everyone here makes recomendations based on what theve seen work of experienced themselves, but ride height is no consistant from car to car and never gets factored in. I've got a 71 going together and have been researching the no hops and ssm bar for awhile with no consistant findings. Front spring selection is another debate often brought up here with no real consensus. I may run the trick springs with a spacer hoping for good weight tranfer with stock ride height, how would that work. I don't want that sagged out look you usually get with the trick springs.

When I installed the Trick springs (part #47200), the front was up in the air and had very little travel. after a few months I cut 2 full coils and the front dropped to bump stops! OOP's, too much graemlins/clonk.gif

I think the right choice would have been part #47160 or 47190 with 1/2 coil removed. Even being an iron headed bbc with a steel hood.

With trick springs you just have to get the right spring.
New stock 6 cylinder/sml block springs didn't work nearly as well as these, Period!

I agree, ride height has allot to do with bar/pinion angles. Mine is basically stock height with the exception of the taller tire. IMO, if someone has a Chevelle sitting up higher or much lower then they more than likely have other issues to deal with before worrying about no-hop bars!

Thanks for the input guys... for the record this is a car set up to run 10's as is and 9's eventually on a stock style suspension. The car has been lighten up as much as I can without making it too race car like. It has a 10 point roll cage and a 496 BBC (unless I decide to sell it for a different combo I have been thinking alot about) to go under the hood eventually.

I am not afraid to play with IC's and used to run a slow 4 link drag car so I know those adjustments and tweaks pretty well. This is one reason I would really like to find some adjustable no hops so I can gain more adjustment without spending 700 bucks for upper arms and no-hops. I have drawn out the suspension points and both methods of IC relocation relocate the IC back... IMO the main concern is the height of the IC. I'm really confused how people complain that the no-hops hit so hard. How are you launching and what is your combo? Technically in theory the SSM's put the IC Higher then the neutral line, thus the chassis lifts and causes seperation. The higher IC's usually end up hitting the tire harder in my experience, but I would be interested to hear other's experiences as well.

In the end... I only know a couple of cars that run 10's or faster with decent results with a lower mount relocation. It seems to work great for slower cars, but faster cars seem to have much more problems blowing the front end sky high or problems with the tires unloading. Regardless of what relocation the whole package working together will be the key to success.