Alright, I started building my 383 and can't wait to put it on the dyno. But, being 17 years old I dont have all the money at once, and probably will not get the motor done until late spring/early summer. Tell me what you guys think this may make on the dyno.

-Early 70's High nickle content 350 block (Bored .030 over, tanked, fluxed)
-Forged 4130 Eagle crank (3.750 stroke)
-Forged SIR I beam Eagle rods
-Milodon High volume oil pump
-Milodon kick out stroker pan
-SRP flat top pistons
-Lunati Solid Flat Tappet Cam 288/296 at .020, 255/263 at .050, .540"/.556" valve lift, and the 108 LSA
-Dart Pro 1 Aluminum heads 215CC runners, Mild hand porting and polishing 64 CC domes, Ferrera Stainless valves.
-Crower 1.6 Stainless rockers
-Edelbrock EPS Dual plane aluminum intake
-Holley 750 Double pumper
-MSD Pro billet vacuum advance distributor
-MSD 6AL Box and Blaster coil
-Hooker comp long tube headers
-Cloyes timing chain

10.5:1 compression ratio

If you guys need anything else, let me know.


Thanks,
Joe Phillips

P.S. With a th350/3000stall(and shift kit), and a 4.11 posi rearend.... what are your guys estimates in the 1/4 mile on 27" or 28" slicks? The staging weight of the car is 3400 lbs.

sounds like a stout set up. Its a lot of cam for the compression in my opinion..but you sure wont have to worry about race gas..I would guess the 400HP range and mid 12s...oh yea...dont come out of the burnout box in second gear...the th350 wont live long

bump

Well thought out engine. Will need just as well thought out suspension to handle that 400hp! I think a good estimate would be high 12sec range. Good luck with your project. Take your time and get it right the first time! :cool:

I would guess about 450HP. I have a 350 .060 over, same cam but on 105LSA. GM #462 ported heads, RPM intake, 10:1 CR. This is in a 3000lb Nova with TH400 and 4500 stall and 4.11s. Chassis dyno said 300hp to the ground. I ran 12.20s consistant and best of 12.06. I would think you should be able to do the same maybe a little faster if you can hook it up!
Mike

I woulda guessed well over 400 horsepower with some dyno time. Be advised though, I hope you dont plan for this motor to be a regular driver, cause its gonna be pretty radical. Being that you have aluminum heads and judging by the specs of your cam, you could manage a little more compresion and still run pump fuel. Do you have a part number for that cam? I looked but could not find it, but if you could give me a number, I could actually give you a good idea of roughly how much compression you can actually get away with. Or better yet, if you have a cam card for it, whats the advertised intake valve closing angle(not .050). One thing that caught my attention is the intake manifold. A low rise dual plane manifold really has no business on top of this motor. Id say a performer rpm at least, but a victor junior single plane would be the most proper match. The gears are good, but you could use a little more converter to really get the most out of it(something that stalls at 3500+rpm), but yours wont be terrible. Like I said though, a 255 degree at .050 solid camshaft under a set of dart ported 215cc heads and the proper manifold should be capable of 430+ horsepower with the right tuneup, and in a 3400lb car, it should be well worthy of about a 12.30 when all the bugs are worked out. Without changing the manifold, keeping the compression as is, and only 3K of stall converter, I also agree that it would be tough to be any faster than 12.60's.

Hi greg,

First, thanks for the reply. The car will not be an everyday driver, usually only a weekend warrior. Not planning to take it on any long trips.

The cam, I posted earlier and UDHarold chimed in. I will link you to the post.
http://www.chevelles.com/forum/ultimatebb.php/topic/4/22784/2.html

Page 2, Harold's first post. Grind #01-UF1-UF5-08-A01 Part #50199

I will think about taking your advice on switching the intakes, but as of now I already have the EPS intake, and might use it for a summer or so. I will not be changing the convertor, as I find that the 3000 convertor suites my needs PERFECT with the rearend gear. I'm really looking to be REAL safe on 93 octane pump gas, so 10.5:1 may just be all I want, but shoot what I COULD run for compression at me. I may change my mind.


Thanks,
Joe Phillips

Im having a hard time finding that cam anywhere. I went to lunaticams.com, but it tells me that there are no results for that part number, and I looked in the listings too and could not find it. As far as my compression estimates, keep in mind that those advertised duration numbers are at .020 inches of lift. Meaning that if it were rated like your average camshaft at .006 or .002, the numbers would read much higher, and that means to me that this cam should be easily large enough to run 11:1 compression(or close to it) with an aluminum head and premium fuel. If you went with an iron cylinder head, I would change my tune cause iron does not dissipate head as well as aluminum, so the tendancy for detonation and/or pre-ignition is higher with iron heads and any given amount of compression VS aluminum heads. All this means that 10.5:1 would be closer to the mark with an iron cylinder head. As far as the converter, it will be iffy still I beleive. Although it may be large enough for everything to work, I have never know a motor of that displacemet with a cam of those specs not to want a good bit more converter to really rip at the track. Of course this wont help your street manners, but keep that in mind if you ever want to run harder. My guess is that if you called up coan or hughess(and so on) right now with your car, gears, motor combo and cam specs they would reccomend a 3800+ rpm converter for bracket racing, and even if you told them you want a street car, they would probably still try to get you to go with at least a 3200 converter. Im not a cam super guru though, so I could be wrong, but this is a case where Id have to see it to beleive it.

That combos a lot like mine, same heads, same cam at 105, and 11.20 compression in a 400. Runs pump 91 no problem. I would hook up with the Wolfman and get some AFR, or Jegs Canfields, or some Vortecs. I made 400/400 at the wheels the first time out with no tuning.

Greg, thanks again for the reply... Do you think I should mill the head to achieve 11:1? How much milling would have to be done? I can still get away with 93 with 11:1 compression? I will probably be upgrading as I go along. It's all about the $$$ income right now. Haha. I will be using the dual plane and the 3000 convertor for now. Possibly upgrading to the 3500, and a Victor JR. as time progresses.

Hilljack, That's what I like to hear! Definetly wouldnt mind 400 to the rear wheels! I would hook up with wolfman's deal... sounds like the hot ticket, but I'm getting a pair of brand new bare dart pro 1's for warehouse price.

Thanks again guys,
Joe Phillips

Got to go with the deal, no doubt! I'm using the springs that came with my heads, 325@1.25"

http://www.cfmperformance.com/cfmhome.htm

These guys are in your neck of the woods. They seem to have good prices on porting.

with a good converter id say it has 11 second potential written all over it, not the first time out of course.

As far as your compression, you should not have to mill the cylinder heads at all. Here are some numbers. Lets say your deck height is stock at .025 and your head gaskets are .039 thick and your flat tops have 7cc worth of valve releif. With your 64cc heads on that setup, you get about 10.25:1 compression. But, a .039 gasket and .025 deck leaves you at .064 quench(just add the deck height plus gasket thickness). What you want for a performance motor is roughly .040 quench. There are many ways to acheive this. Assuming you do use .039 gaskets, mill your deck surface to about .005. That puts you at .044 quench and boost compression to a lively 10.75:1. All the sudden you have a more ideal combustion chamber quench distance, and also compression that is better matched to your camshaft. Depending on the valve releif size in those flat tops, the number can vary. Also if you peg the quench right at .040(.040 gasket and zero quench, .020 deck and .020 gasket and so on) compression ends up being roughly 10.85:1. Not quite 11:1, but good enough to call it a day. As you can see, no cylinder head milling is really necessary as a 64cc head is plenty able to make the compression on top of a flat top 383. What are your numbers so far like deck height, piston valve releif size, and compressed gasket thickness and bore. If you can give me those I can give a pretty accurate estimate of what your current compression will be, as well as what changes you could make to get things closer to where they need to be witout too much hassle.

Greg,
Been readin along here & am a little curious about your comment about seat timing on a flat tappet cam.
Almost all flat tappet stuff is rated at .020 lifter rise as are Harold's,, with a few exceptions like Comps XE stuff so I am confused regarding your reference to .002 or .006?

JP,
That combo is a solid 450HP deal with either a Vic Jr or a Ede Air Gap & the Air Gap will make very close to the same power to 6000 or so as the Vic with a lot more below 3500-4000.
I feel the Air Gap would be a better intake if you are not going to up the converter.
With a 4000 converter the Vic should be a lot better match.
Also, the difference between 10.5 & 11.0 is at best 1.5 to 2% so you are talking maybe 10hp with a 500HP deal & the 10.5 leaves you little more room for that occasional tank of crap gas ;)
My choice would be to stay at your 10.5.

Anyone else want to chime in? On what the car would run with the listed set up?


Thanks,
Joe Phillips

Originally posted by Jp-15:
Anyone else want to chime in? On what the car would run with the listed set up?


Thanks,
Joe Phillips Joe,
A little more in the HP area for ya,,,
I have a 406 on the dyno we ran today & this is considered by most a pretty conservative dyno (read honest)
It is a true 9.4 compression, so-so EDE Perf RPM heads, EDE air gap, 750HP Holley, Isky hyd roller, 1 3/4" x 28" x 3 1/2" dyno headers.
430HP at about 5900 & 498lbs ft of torque at about 3500. I will get the exact RPM numbers & cam specs tomorrow if you want them but this thing is a very mild deal.
With your cam compression & heads this thing would be closing on 500HP. ;)

Joe; Listen to Mike, he knows his s**t! Your cam, compression, heads, gears, and stall are right in line for a solid street & strip performer. The manifold could definitely be improved upon, but with your limited hood clearance, I'd leave it alone. The EPS is a virtual copy of the RPM, except for the height. If you have a cowl hood, I'd definitely go with the RPM. The Vic Jr. will make a little more above 6000, but who the hell drives at those engine speeds? :rolleyes: :D
To summarize, just do what you're doing and you'll be pleased!
Steve

This is for Wolfplace. I see what your sayin here, I think I confused the solid cam with a hydro cam for a second. It would not be fair to rate a solid camshaft of any sort at .006 inches of tappet lift(or anything much less than .020), cause if you had lets say .022 lash for your particular cam, the valve itself would be closed until the point where the lifter reaches .022 lift on the lobe, at which case the lash is taken up and the valve starts to move off the seat(meaning the valve is just beginning to rise from zero lift when the tappet reaches the amount of lift that is equal to your lash settings which is a higher tappet lift). So, the advertised duration numbers are rated at a higher tappet lift to take valve lash into account at the rocker. However in a hydro cam(which I was thinking for some reason..... I think), there is no lash present. So it would not be totally fair to rate a hydro at .020 on the tappet, cause the valve is still open at this point and will not close until the tappet is much closer to .000 lift(hench the difference in the ratings from solid to hydro). I probably woulda never caught my mistake had you not brought it up.

Originally posted by greg_moreira:
This is for Wolfplace. I see what your sayin here, I think I confused the solid cam with a hydro cam for a second. It would not be fair to rate a solid camshaft of any sort at .006 inches of tappet lift(or anything much less than .020), cause if you had lets say .022 lash for your particular cam, the valve itself would be closed until the point where the lifter reaches .022 lift on the lobe, at which case the lash is taken up and the valve starts to move off the seat(meaning the valve is just beginning to rise from zero lift when the tappet reaches the amount of lift that is equal to your lash settings which is a higher tappet lift). So, the advertised duration numbers are rated at a higher tappet lift to take valve lash into account at the rocker. However in a hydro cam(which I was thinking for some reason..... I think), there is no lash present. So it would not be totally fair to rate a hydro at .020 on the tappet, cause the valve is still open at this point and will not close until the tappet is much closer to .000 lift(hench the difference in the ratings from solid to hydro). I probably woulda never caught my mistake had you not brought it up. Yeah, what he said tongue.gif :D

Originally posted by greg_moreira:
This is for Wolfplace. I see what your sayin here, I think I confused the solid cam with a hydro cam for a second. It would not be fair to rate a solid camshaft of any sort at .006 inches of tappet lift(or anything much less than .020), cause if you had lets say .022 lash for your particular cam, the valve itself would be closed until the point where the lifter reaches .022 lift on the lobe, at which case the lash is taken up and the valve starts to move off the seat(meaning the valve is just beginning to rise from zero lift when the tappet reaches the amount of lift that is equal to your lash settings which is a higher tappet lift). So, the advertised duration numbers are rated at a higher tappet lift to take valve lash into account at the rocker. However in a hydro cam(which I was thinking for some reason..... I think), there is no lash present. So it would not be totally fair to rate a hydro at .020 on the tappet, cause the valve is still open at this point and will not close until the tappet is much closer to .000 lift(hench the difference in the ratings from solid to hydro). I probably woulda never caught my mistake had you not brought it up. =

Yep, kinda figured you were comparing two different things here it was just a little confusing unless you read between the lines :D

Also just to keep things close to correct, if you use the .020 lifter rise for a solid then you also need to take into account the rocker ratio & the SAE standard of .004 for deflections to know about where the valve is.
So,,,, the .020 lifter rise number is only correct at the valve if you a valve lash of .024 with a 1.5 rocker ratio & .027 with a
1.7 :confused:

And in your example of .022 working backwards the lifter would need to rise .0187 to start opening the valve ;)

Are we having fun yet?? :rolleyes: