a fresh 454. Fired it up, set timing and ran for 20 minutes last week for cam break in. Turned up idle speed to 2000 rpms. During the 20 minutes, the rpms would fluctuate some by a 200 rpms or so. maybe be at 2000 for a minute, then drop to 1800 for a mintute or 2, then go to 2100 and so on. Also, a slight misfire. It would run on all 8, but it would miss here and there. Figured a possible vacuum leak but wanted to finish break in on the cam. Exhaust did smell a little rich, but the carb is brand new, so figured that it just might need jetting.

After break in, changed oil. The oil looked good. didn't see any metal in there. I expected to see a little, but didn't see any. Saved the filter, but didn't cut it open as there were no suitable tools at that shop to cut it open with. At this point, looks like a couple of tuning issues. Figured I would attack the vacuum leak first. It has a new carb and new intake. We had a 1" spacer of unkown origin, history or age. I removed it figuring, maybe it was warped. At least that would eliminate it. noticed intake bolts were not quite to speck anymore. retorqued them. The car ran a little better, but still was lacking power and the idle was all over the place. 1200, 700, 900, 1100, ect. In messing with timing, i found that the vacuum advance on the old parts shed distributor was not doing anything. Figured, it maybe a leak. Plugged off that port on the carb for the time being. Still no beans. Maybe a little better. Plugs read a little rich, but not too bad, cleaned them, checked plug wires (which are new). Decided to junk the distributor. got a reman points, put the pertronix conversion in it, already had new blaster 2 coil in there. Idle still all over, lack of power, surging rpms. Figure the intake gaskets might be bad. there was a mishap with a carb lift plate during install. Changed them, but noticed no more center section to the carb gasket. (the 4 hole kind) musta got sucked intot he engine. didn't see it, compression test showed all cyl's about the same. Had the timing advanced a little to far in trying to start it again. It kicked back against the starter. The starter was not pleased. Started making a grinding noise. Noticed no damage to starter gear or flexplate. Decided it might need shimming because maybe it never fully engaged the flexplate anyway. Put in a couple shims, and it was good.
this is where things go way down hill.
The engine starts up and for the first time sounds good. for about 10 seconds, then a really really loud knocking. Sounded like top end, but we shut it down right quick. pulled valve covers. No broken springs, or anything unusual. started it again for a few seconds. still makes noise. decided that we needed to start pulling the heads to see if that gasket was in there. started with the drivers side. noticed that the new intake gaskest were SATURATED with gas. There is only 15 seconds of runtime on them. this can't be right. cranked over engine holding the fuel line. MASSIVE amounts of fuel pressure. figured the fuel pump is overpowering the needle valve in the carb, overflowing, filling the back cyls and causing that noise. Things seem to make sense, the idle acting funny, the carb gasket falling apart, misfire that will not go away, lack of power. Changed the fuel pump and intake gaskets. changed oil & filter again as there was gas in it. There is a fine grey metal dust in it this time. I am hoping it is a little bit of excessive ring wear. Started it up, knocking still there. starter sounds like crap. it makes a horrible grinding when cranking but will turn the engine over. Only runs on 7 cylinders. #8 header tube is COLD, the rest will be warm. I only ran the engine a couple of times for about 4 seconds each to see if the noise was there. do a compression test, all cyl's read about the same. 135-145psi.

What are the chances that the remaining issues are a bad starter and a ignition issue? I'm thinking that the starter is probably bad, maybe the knocking noise is the starter gear coming out and hitting the flexplate and getting thrown back in the starter, or a broken flexplate. Then engine has less than 20 miles on it total.

Sounds like #8 plug or plug wire is bad..is the plug fouled?

it was wet with gas. it might be just enough fouled not to run. Its time for new plugs since it was running so rich. I checked the plug wire with a meter. Has continuity, but 0.00 ohms. I thougth there would at least be .01 ohms, so that is funky. forgot to post that in the first post.

Plan of attack is change starter, loosen toque converter and see if flexplate wiggles or not, replace plugs and wires. Is there any chance this will solve anything? I'm afraid the noise is really a broken piston from getting so much gas washing the oil off the cyl. The thing has a 7 qt pan, and yesterday it had about a quart of gas in it. So, if by now (20 miles), it has 1 quart of gas in 7 qts of oil, would that have been enough to ruin the bottom end or cam? Remembering that it has accumulated 1 quart of gas over 20 miles, so the whole quart wasn't in there the whole 20 miles. It has not seen over 4000rpm, nor heavy abuse yet.

well, took the starter off today on my lunch break. Doesn't have any visible damage other than some wear on the teeth and some wear on the flexplate. The starter gear was still engaged to the flexplate when I looked at it. The last time it was cranked over there were no spark plugs in and I was just checking compression so maybe since the engine didn't start, it didn't release the starter gear. or maybe it just doesn't disengage on its own because its broken. :confused:
didn't have time to unbolt the converter and see if the flexplate moves around.

Dennis; The starter gear should always disengage from the ring gear.If not,check the return spring in the starter,or add more shims.When engaged,you should be able to slide a paper clip between the high point of the starter drive gear,and the valley,or low point of the ring gear,or visa-versa. Steve

Dennis; The starter gear should always disengage from the ring gear That is not true for Gear Reduction starters, is it? I thought that the starter gear can state engaged until the car is started again.

Ok, i replaced the starter, shimmed it, removed the converter bolts, pushed it back and tried to move the flexpate. Turned, it and tried to move it again. It is solid. Measured it to make sure it was still flat and not bent. So the flexplate looks fine. I am not incredibly happy with the converter though. I noticed that when there were 2 bolts in it and I was turning the engine around the converter could move rotationally!! and the sound it makes is remarkably similar to the knocking the engine makes. After I put the 3rd bolt on it was no longer able to move. I'll get new plugs and wires today and fire it up, if it still makes the noise, i'm going take out the converter bolts again, push the converter back and start it up. If that fixes it, I'll make the converter bolts a little shorter. they must be bottoming out before getting tight. I should do that anyway I guess. Hopefully that is it, otherwise that pass side head is coming off to see if there's some carb gasket in there messing with PV clearance.

Fourfiddyfour, If you got gas in the oil it is probable that the fuel pump has a ruptured diaphram if you have a manual fuel pump in line. The diaphram that creates the suction to draw fuel from the gas tank can rupture and fill the oil pan with gasoline thru it's mounting hole. Any new fuel punp should be primed with gas prior to installation to keep this from happening. This in turn dilutes the oil and bang the bearings are toast. If it knocks again pull the engine and check the bearings, one at a time. This can totally trash an engine in a very short time as my ex-wife blew up a 455 Stage 1 buick by driving 10 miles with a spun rod bearing. Number 5 rod is now sticking thru the oil pan.

Harold, thanks for the tip. I have replaced the pump too with a known good one now, and cleaned the needle valves in the carb. I think the plug wires are all messed up so I can't get it started to know if gas is still going to the base. Getting new plugs and wires today.
Sorry to hear about the Buick. :(

yanniz; Yes,you're correct.If the engine did not fire,they can,and often do remain engaged.I was on my eleventh or twelfth graemlins/beers.gif last night,and wasn't thinking of that scenario.I actually use the block mount type(no nose)and it does hang up.It actually made it easier to set the clearance.The only problem is the incredibly weak return spring.Under hard accelleration,mine will actually slide back into the ring gear,and make a chirping soung,almost like a referee's whistle.I even used the shim kit on the starter drive to give me about .100" clearance between rest and engagement.So far no damage,just a little shine on the front of the teeth. :D Steve

Originally posted by Harold Sutton:
Any new fuel punp should be primed with gas prior to installation to keep this from happening. Not trying to hijack this post, but how do you "prime" a fuel pump? I have a new one as well and don't want to screw it up.

was the oil real watery as in thin when you draned it? did it smell ike gas