Hi Guys,
First of all let me start by saying that I have been reading this forum for 3 years now and have totally restored a 68 Chevelle with all of your help. (You didn't even know that you were helping).
Now to my problem, I am at the point where I am test firing the motor (454 bored .030). The motor was test fired and ran like a raped ape, with a flexplate for test firing purposes. I changed to a flywheel, installed a M22 and when I went to fire it up again it was clinking and clanking. After shimming the starter the problem was still present and then I busted the gears in my starter. I changed to a stock starter (Hi Torque, aluminum nose) and sheared the whole nose off as well as some teeth in my flywheel. Now I am just confused so I removed the trans and flywheel and put the flexplate back on as well as installed a HEI MSD street fire distributor. I test fired it after making sure that the starter was shimmed and now I have a new problem, the starter stays engaged (energized) when the ignition switch is in start mode. I mean that there is no "Run" mode on my switch (unless I dissconnect the battery and test the switch which then it has Accessory, run and start with no issues) . When the motor is running the starter is also turning at the same time and when I try to turn the key back to run it shuts off the car. After the car shuts off I check the gear in the starter and it disengages from flexplate as it should. I changed ignition switches thinking it was bad but still the same problem. So the only thing I have changed in the car since the first test fire is the Distributor and the starter. I should tell you that everything in the car is brand new including a M&H complete wiring harness front to rear.
Sorry this is so long I just wanted to try and capture everything. Can someone please help me, I am so close I can taste it. Thanks for posting on this forum because you have helped tremendously. I would love to have this ready for the Chevelle show in June in Northeast, Maryland.

I may not even be close on this one, but I remember reading something like this before. If I'm thinking correctly, your starter is staying energized. If I had to guess, you have updated some of your electrical system (maybe an internally regulated alternator), but are still running the old setup to your starter and HEI.

I think your problem is how it's wired between the HEI and the starter, but I don't remember quite what the problem was. On mine, I only have 1 wire that connects to the solenoid + the battery cable. Might want to recheck and post on how yours is wired.

Well, are you sure the starter is still running, or is it somehow binding and staying engaged to the flywheel/flexplate? If its binding, I think it will seem as though the starter solenoid is still powered even though it isn't.

I'd have to say that the ignition isn't involved since its a different circuit from the starter.

The starter circuit is pretty simple in that the solenoid is engaged by power from the ignition switch. The starter is powered by the solenoid acting as a switch for the high current (large) wire from the battery. The bendix, which throws out the small gear that meshes with the flexplate is also actuated by the solenoid.

If the small gear binds and doesn't disengage, the starter seems to still be running.

Since the bad noises, and breaking of the starter nose are often mechanical problems, not electrical, I'd guess there's still a mechanical problem.

How did you decide the shims were correct?

You can look at it from a mechanical or electrical standpoint. Disconnect the - battery terminal and somehow make the starter gear engage the flexplate and look at the clearance, or measure the voltage on the S terminal when the key is in the run (not start) position.

You could also turn it over with the coil disconnected. Either the coil high voltage wire, or low voltage in the case of an HEI.

Hi 66SC,
I guess I don't know if the starter is still running or if it is binding. Some of this stuff is hard to do by yourself. I presumed that the shims were correct because I didn't have the grinding anymore and the starter gear looked evenly spaced in the flexplate. I had a paperclips distance between the valley of the flexplate and the tip of the starter tooth. The starter gear disengages all by itself when you turn the key off now as opposed to it wouldn't when there were no shims.
This is all new stuff wiring included. I did have the harness built for HEI and it included a yellow wire and a heavy Purple wire. I thought the yellow wire was for a coil??? so I disconnected the wire and just left the purple hooked up and I had no Power at all. I switched the Purple to the other post and still no power. I hooked both back up and it at least has power now. Remember that the car did test fire at the very beginning and ran great. It has been since I installed flywheel and new starter that the problem occurred.
What am I missing? I will have to try yuor ideas this week.
Thanks to all.

Hi Extreme70ss396,
I didn't think I needed that yellow wire either since it was an HEI but I tried it without the wire and had no power at all. I switched the purple wire to other post without yellow wire and still no power. It's only when I hook both of them up it has power. I know this is something simple but very frustrating. Thanks for the reply.

The 'yellow' wire (R post on the solenoid) is used with a points distributor to provide a full +12V during cranking to the + side of the coil. The 'purple' wire is only hot during the START position and goes from the ignition switch, through the neutral safety switch, then to the S post on the solenoid.

If you are using HEI, you should have a +12V source wire from the IGN terminal of your fuse box to the distributor BATT terminal. You can disconnect the yellow wire from the solenoid or tape it up at the "coil" end. Its not used when you have a HEI ignition.

Remove the purple wire, connect it to a VOM and watch for +12V when you turn your key to START. Be sure it drops back to 0 volts when you release the key. If you're not getting the voltage check your neutral safety switch.

If that's correct, then the problem is likely in the solenoid. I remove the starter and check everything out for binding. You can actually 'run' the starter out on the ground with jumper cables and a wire lead to pulse the S terminal.

Although the yellow by-pass wire shouldn't be needed with an HEI, it won't hurt a thing IF it is left in use.
All it will do is send a full 12 volts to the HEI during cranking.
Once the starter solenoid returns home, the yellow wire doesn't connect to anything on it's "R" terminal end.

{EDIT} that is with a stock GM starter.

Hi D1 Bradley,
I do not have a neutral saefty switch, it is a 68 Chevelle w/ 4 speed (Not installed yet)
So since the car initially ran great at the first start up, is it safe to say it could possibly be the solenoid of the new starter just put in? Or am I missing something? Sorry for the dumb questions, I am not the engine guy. I know enough to be dangerous and would prefer to replace rust and paint the vehicle (which I learned fromn Chevelle Tech members). Thanks guys please bare with me. At this point I am willing to have a local Chevelle guru come out (If any are local to Cecil County, Maryland) and I would pay them. I just want to cruise........

I would be leaning to how you are shimming it... especially after going through a couple already.

There is only one real way to fix the problem and that is to get under the car (careful) and see what is going on when it engages.
1. Make sure the gears are lining up correctly.
2. Make sure the starter gear retracts by shimming it very loosely (or loosening the bolts of the starter (so it doesnt engage the flywheel) to see if it is working properly.

Dumb question, but do you have the front bracket on the starter bolted on? If not, this will cause similar symptoms because of the angle of the starter to the flywheel and will cause binding. This front bracket lifts the front of the starter for the correct angle. Dont rely on the mating surface of the starter and two bolts holding it up to give you the right angle.

I do not have a front bracket for the starter, do they make them for a hi torque mini? I will try all of these ideas this week and post the outcome. Very much appreciated.
Nice 68 in your pic!

I am not sure if they make it for a mini starter. double check that the gears mesh together properly because of different sized flywheels (153 and 168?)

Check the voltage as mentioned, also. If you're somehow powering the starter anytime the engine is on, it could explain your troubles.

Good luck!

Hi Guys,
I have a 168 T Flexplate in right now and I will check the voltage as soon as I get time to work on it this week. The only real baffling thing is everything worked great with the old starter but now with new starter it is starting these issues, so nothing really has changed except for new ignition switch and new starter. The original starter on the car needed no shims to fire until I installed a flywheel and that's when I fried the old starter. So i put the flexplate back in and added new starter and 1/16" shims, seems to mesh well with proper gaps and releases gear when car is shut off. Now I am leaning towards a shimming problem still since nothing has changed electrically. I am still very excited to show you folks some pics after I figure out how to upload to this post.
Thanks for all your help.

"Except for the new ignition switch....." ;)

I installed the old ignition switch which worked at the original test fire and it did the same exact thing as the new one so I hoped I could eliminate that as a problem. It is hard to state exactly what has been done over this thread. I will get a buddy to come over and actually look under the car as I start it to see if everything is working as it should and check the voltage. Try these links to see the car that was built using Chevelle Tech. If you couldn't tell I am a big fan of this site!!!!


http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll150/ragdollbailey714/Engine7.jpg
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll150/ragdollbailey714/68Chevelle3.jpg
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll150/ragdollbailey714/68Chevelle2.jpg
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll150/ragdollbailey714/68ChevelleSSInterior.jpg

WOW!! Nice car!!

Thanks a lot your's too! People asked how do you know how to do that and I say I had a lot of help from a Chevelle Forum. I even learned how to paint the car and upolster seats with advice from all of you guys and it has been very rewarding! Now I just need to fire this puppy up and get her tagged Historic.

The original starter on the car needed no shims to fire until I installed a flywheel and that's when I fried the old starter. So i put the flexplate back in and added new starter and 1/16" shims, seems to mesh well with proper gaps and releases gear when car is shut off. Now I am leaning towards a shimming problem still since nothing has changed electrically.
Same problem I had in my 68...
POZ

Poz68,
How did you fix your problem? Change the starter? I have to tell you that all starters are not created equally.

By the way Poz68, that is a great stance and look on your 68.

Thank you for all the compliments, your car is gorgeous! I like the interior with that color.

The way I fixed it was to crawl under there and see exactly what the binding issue was to keep the starter engaged which basically means shimming the starter until the gears just meet about halfway onto eachother.

You have to watch to see how it is engaging so you dont have any more drama switcing out the starters. Ground Up sells a bracket for the full size starter. Make sure that the starter is horizontal and tighten it down real good on the mini and you should be fine.

You have a pm.

OK, I just got back in from re-shimming the starter to the point where the teeth of the starter were only half engaging the flexplate and am having the same problem as before. The starter appears to be staying engaged while the car is running. (What are the easons that could cause this?)
I have a M&H engine harness that was supposed to be made for HEI but it has a yellow and purple wire at the starter. When I do not hook the yellow up I have no power at all, when I hook it up I have power but I have this problem. I emailed M&H for an answer.
Why would I need this yellow? Is there another way to get power to the starter? I am so lost. I went and bought a newer generation Delco hi torque starter but it has no provisions for the yellow wire because HEI does not need it, so I guess that is going back unless M&H can explain this. Is there any kind of grounding issues that can cause this? I still can't explain why it ran great when originally fired up. I'll keep trying.

[quote=66sc;1760344]Well, are you sure the starter is still running, or is it somehow binding and staying engaged to the flywheel/flexplate? If its binding, I think it will seem as though the starter solenoid is still powered even though it isn't.

If the starter was binding why would it totally release from the flexplate when ignition is turned off? I am not the Electrical/Mechanical guru I wish I was.

You need to see if it is electrically staying engaged as mentioned above.

Use a voltmeter, and see if the wire(s) have current running to the starter all the time (when ignition switch is on) or only when ignition switch is in the "start" position. If nothing else, this will narrow it down to wiring or starter gap problem. I'm thinking it's something in your wiring that's keeping the starter engaged, but you at least need to narrow it down at this point.

[quote=GR868;1762675]OK, I just got back in from re-shimming the starter to the point where the teeth of the starter were only half engaging the flexplate and am having the same problem as before. The starter appears to be staying engaged while the car is running. (What are the easons that could cause this?)

Will the gear from the starter stick out even if not touching the flywheel at all? (just loosely hang the starter from the bolts and dont let it touch the flywheel and see what happens when "started"...)

OK, an update:
Removed starter replaced with new starter, shimmed and have same issue with it staying energized. Installed yet another starter (Thank god they let me bring these back) and same isse with brand new non rebuilt model, same issues. Received e-mail from M&H wiring and they claim to know my issues and firmly believed it is being cause by my ignition switch. They said when you update your wiring harness to HEI but still are using old style ignition switch (Briggs and stratton key) that this will happen. Below is their e-mail back to me:
The original ignition switches suffered from this dilemma and only allowed power to the coil through the yellow wire when cranking, with no power in cranking mode through the resistance wire or in your case the pink wire going to the HEI. The newer ignition switches corrected the problem and allowed power through the resistance wire (pink HEI wire) during cranking.

Any of you heard of this before?

I ordered a new model switch to fit a 68 and we will see what happens. The good news is the car runs, the bad news is so does the starter the whole time the car is. That is very bad........

Thanks guys!

I would trace these wires out and see exactly where they go and what they do when the key is in OFF, RUN, and START positions. This shouldnt be that complicated. To get your starter going, you only need one wire (purple I believe, if it follows conventional coloring schemes) that provides 12 volts (to the solenoid) when your key is in the START position. Period. Not the RUN position, the START position. That twelve volts goes away when you release the key back to the RUN position.

Check the 12volts to your distributor coil. It should only be present in the RUN and START positions. Period.

Take these measurements with the wires disconnected and if they check out properly, then there is a problem in the way you are connecting them either at the switch or at the starter. Fishy fishy fishy....Maybe creating some sort of LOOP when the solenoid closes...speculating...

I am using the original '65 ignition switch in my car with a new HEI setup and have no problems (I replaced the "resistance wire" with #12 copper strand). Thousands of others have done the same. I am not sure about that explanation that you got from the rep. Was it some sort of factory defect?

You've got several determined people behind you so you'll straighten it out one way or the other.

Hi 65Cayne,
This weekend I am going to put some time into all of your's and others feedback and try to figure this thing out. I appreciate everyone's help and suggestions on this.
I hope the new ignition fixes things but I have to admit I am skeptical. The reason I am skeptical is that the car ran 6 moths ago when I first installed it into the car with everything I have now except the starter (I even put the old ignition switch back in the car). The only thing I have done was add a Covan Dash with all autometer gauges but That was straight forward: Oil line to block and tap into a light socket for light, fuel to sender wire and light tap, tach to distributor with light tap, speedo to trans with light tap, water temp to block with light tap, and volt gauge with light tap. Could I have screwed that up somehow????? I will be checking everything.

...I have a M&H engine harness that ... has a yellow and purple wire at the starter...I am so lost...
You are not lost...the problem is right here. Just need to look at the facts. Disconnect these and check the status in each of the three KEY positions.

...If the starter was binding why would it totally release from the flexplate when ignition is turned off? ...
Can I assume you mean the OFF position? This points to a constant 12v to your solenoid...after your engine is fired. I assume (again) that your engine does not start when you go from OFF-->RUN initially...

You need to see if it is electrically staying engaged as mentioned above.

Use a voltmeter, and see if the wire(s) have current running to the starter all the time (when ignition switch is on) or only when ignition switch is in the "start" position. If nothing else, this will narrow it down to wiring or starter gap problem. I'm thinking it's something in your wiring that's keeping the starter engaged, but you at least need to narrow it down at this point.
What he said :yes:

Hi 65Cayne,
This weekend I am going to put some time into all of your's and others feedback and try to figure this thing out. I appreciate everyone's help and suggestions on this.
I hope the new ignition fixes things but I have to admit I am skeptical. The reason I am skeptical is that the car ran 6 moths ago when I first installed it into the car with everything I have now except the starter (I even put the old ignition switch back in the car). The only thing I have done was add a Covan Dash with all autometer gauges but That was straight forward: Oil line to block and tap into a light socket for light, fuel to sender wire and light tap, tach to distributor with light tap, speedo to trans with light tap, water temp to block with light tap, and volt gauge with light tap. Could I have screwed that up somehow????? I will be checking everything.

I think what you did was fine. I also think that you are getting caught up in the frustration that comes with changing parts and not solving anything (we've all been there). Just pull back on the reigns and do a little investigating and see what is going on electrically (at those two wires: yellow and purple), then go from there.

Hi 65Cayne,
This weekend I am going to put some time into all of your's and others feedback and try to figure this thing out. I appreciate everyone's help and suggestions on this.
I hope the new ignition fixes things but I have to admit I am skeptical. The reason I am skeptical is that the car ran 6 moths ago when I first installed it into the car with everything I have now except the starter (I even put the old ignition switch back in the car). The only thing I have done was add a Covan Dash with all autometer gauges but That was straight forward: Oil line to block and tap into a light socket for light, fuel to sender wire and light tap, tach to distributor with light tap, speedo to trans with light tap, water temp to block with light tap, and volt gauge with light tap. Could I have screwed that up somehow????? I will be checking everything.
I dont think you need to check everything, all you need to check is why there is constant power to the starter. It can only be two things, either it is wired wrong(or grounding out) to the starter or the switch is faulty. You have a closed circuit making power at all times. If it was my car I would test for continuity at the switch in the start position and see if there is still continuity after released, which we know there is but I would test the switch seperately from the wires/starter to rule that out as the culprit. Then I would start working my way back through the wires until I ended at the starter. Double check wiring diagrams for HEI and make sure yours looks like it. Keep us posted!

Hi Poz68,
If it were grounding our what is the likely culprit? I will check this on Sunday as I am spending Saturday at baseball/Softball practice with the kids. I fired it last night and noticed that when the car is running (along with the starter) that when i turn the key back from start position it goes directly to shutting engine off. It's like ther is no run position. After the car origianlly fired some months ago I have added the grounding straps block to frame, body to frame and body to block with original copper straps. I have my negative battery to fender. Is there something wrong there? I will disconnect all of these and see what happens as well. I sure am hoping it is the switch but I will check on Sunday. Thanks to everyone for trying help this beast breath again.

Hi Poz68,
If it were grounding our what is the likely culprit? I will check this on Sunday as I am spending Saturday at baseball/Softball practice with the kids. I fired it last night and noticed that when the car is running (along with the starter) that when i turn the key back from start position it goes directly to shutting engine off. It's like ther is no run position. After the car origianlly fired some months ago I have added the grounding straps block to frame, body to frame and body to block with original copper straps. I have my negative battery to fender. Is there something wrong there? I will disconnect all of these and see what happens as well. I sure am hoping it is the switch but I will check on Sunday. Thanks to everyone for trying help this beast breath again.What I meant by grounding out is if the starter is somehow getting a full circuit by two wires touching maybe behind the starter switch or through the metal on the firewall (stripped wire from installation). I doubt it is this though. I would double check my connections at the starter and make sure they are correct and also at the ignition switch. Use a test light or multimeter with continuity(audible tone when touched together) and see what is getting power when from the ignition switch. Turn the key to all positions when testing.:thumbsup:

OK, Looks like I have 12 volts at the solenoid when the key is in run position and start position. This is a problem. So now the question is why is this happening when it's a brand new harness built for HEI system? The starter should not need the yellow wire if an HEI but in my case this is the only way I can get power to the starter. Any ideas on where to look or check now?
I originally posted that when I first test fired the car it ran like a raped ape! Now I think that this was always the problem but I just did not hear the starter running while standing over the engine with open headers. This is probably why I fried the first starter. For my information only I installed brand new GM newer type ignition and proble is the same. Any thoughts?
Thanks

Is there something I am overlooking at any relays or junction blocks? If I accidentally wired the black and red heavy wire to the horn relay backwards would this happen?

Fix that problem, give it a try -

It's still possible the ignition switch is bad, too - but I'd go over your wiring with a fine-tooth comb (not a metal one ;)) and see if you can spot anything else.

OK, I misunderstood my helper, He said there were NOT 12 volts when key was in the run position so I checked myself with a test light and here is what I have found:
Key in run position there is no power to the purple or yellow wire on the starter and no power on the Solenoid connector on back of ignition switch. There is power when in start mode to the Purple wire on back of ignition switch (Sol). Since I am still questioning the yellow wire being needed for HEI to the starter and i noticed that there is a pink (Ignition and same yellow wire hooked to distributor. Is this normal? I also looked to make sure that the back of the switch matched the harness wiring (in case there was an error from factory) and here is what I have found:
Heavy Purple to Solenoid
Pink to Ignition
Key + was pink/black
Key - was black
Ground- no wire
Battery is Red
ACC was 2 wires one heavy brown and one lighter brown/white

Last thing I looked at was the dash wiring harness that was made by M&H for a 68 Chevelle w/ gauges. I seen that there was a purple and purple and white wire hook up for a neutral safety switch that I am not using but there was still a quick dissconnect present. I checked it with the light and in the run position on key there was no power but when in start mode there was power to those wires.

Now what?

Did you, or did you not, fix the horn connection problem first?

If you did, I would try disconnecting the yellow wire from the starter - then try it again.

Note an electrical guru would figure it out first - I'm not an electrical guru, so I usually "try it".

Xtreme70SS396,
The horn has always worked, I thought maybe I had something wrong on the horn relay that may have caused my current issue a few posts ago. All my electricals in the car work (EXCEPT: constant energy to my starter) and all my gauges work, that is what has me puzzled. I will keep on probing and looking even though I am not a guru either.
Note: I currently have .125" of shims under my DB Electrical starter and it engages fine and releases after car is shut off fine.

THis will be interesting once you figure it out.

Note on my car, the battery is grounded to the engine, not the fender. Otherwise, I have the same basic setup as you.

I got an HEI wired kit for the engine compartment, using an internally regulated alternator.

Here's a test I would run if I were in your position: I'd run the car only off the battery, I'd disconnect the alternator and see what happens. If the starter is OK, then it's something in your charging circuit. Either way, I'd review that circuit.

I still can't see why you'd need that yellow wire, either.

disconnect the yellow wire at both ends (starter and dist.) and try it. with HEI you should not need it. may be back feeding from the Other wire on the distrib threw the yellow and back to the starter. Cant hurt to try

Great advice guys! Tonight I am going to do the following:
-Put yellow and Purple on same solenoid post just to see what happens,
-Disconnect Alternator and see if Starter then runs fine and if it does problem is in charging circuit,
-Disconnect yellow wire from both starter and distributor and see what happens
- Test yellow wire @ Solenoid for volts while car is running

Any other ideas while I am troubleshooting?

Fun Fun Fun! When this is done I may have to go through therapy!

...Key in run position there is no power to the purple or yellow wire on the starter and no power on the Solenoid connector (correct) on back of ignition switch. (this is step one)

There is power when in (key in) start mode to the Purple wire (also correct) on back of ignition switch (Sol). (same as the purple wire on the starter, correct?? make sure you have it at the solenoid...you should...this is step two)

Heavy Purple to Solenoid
Pink to Ignition
Key + was pink/black
Key - was black
Ground- no wire
Battery is Red
ACC was 2 wires one heavy brown and one lighter brown/white

Now what?

...Tonight I am going to do the following:
-Put yellow and Purple on same solenoid post just to see what happens,
Any other ideas while I am troubleshooting?...


You should never mess with electrical "just to see what happens" :sad: because "bad" things can happen. :)

Troubleshoot the problem and stop guessing. I know this is hard to do running back and forth waiting for responses from the forum but you are already halfway there.

With ONLY the purple wire connected to your starter solenoid, and the feed wire from the battery to you starter (large post), based on what you said above, that starter should turn when you go to START and stop turning when you release to RUN position.

If this is not true then post back.

Forget about the yellow wire and leave it disconnected.

You should never mess with electrical "just to see what happens" :sad: because "bad" things can happen. :)

Troubleshoot the problem and stop guessing. I know this is hard to do running back and forth waiting for responses from the forum but you are already halfway there.

With ONLY the purple wire connected to your starter solenoid, and the feed wire from the battery to you starter (large post), based on what you said above, that starter should turn when you go to START and stop turning when you release to RUN position.

If this is not true then post back.

Forget about the yellow wire and leave it disconnected.

CORRECT !

65 Cayne,
This is the problem, with the yellow disconnected I have no power to the starter... strange but true. With just the purple to the S post I have no power. Your right, I do not want bad things to happen electrically.
Thanks,Kevin

65 Cayne,
This is the problem, with the yellow disconnected I have no power to the starter... strange but true. With just the purple to the S post I have no power. Your right, I do not want bad things to happen electrically.
Thanks,Kevin

Kevin,
This is why I stated that you ought to check these measurements (back in my first post) with those two wires disconnected. That will tell you which wire is providing power and in what key position.

90% of the battle with electrical problems is troubleshooting. And by T/S, I mean taking lot's of measurements, in a systematic way, to determine exactly what is happening. The remaining 10% is just the repair.

It doesnt necessarily matter which end of the circuit you start on. What matters is that you dont jump around unless you are sure of the circuitry in between.

If you dont have one, find a diagram of a basic ignition/starter circuit, study it carefully, and get ready for another go....:yes:
To recall what I said earlier, disconnect the purple and the yellow from the starter, and while you're at it, disconnect the ignition wire from the HEI. Put your helper in the driver's seat and check the following:

KEY position--> OFF/_RUN/_START
PURPLE _______0v___0v ___12v ............(solenoid wire)
YELLOW_______?____?_____?................(yellow mystery wire)
HEI __________0v___12v___12v.............(wire to your HEI coil, color?)

Verify and/or fill in this table and report back. This will tell you ALOT (it really will). Take the measurements with the wires DISCONNECTED and use the engine block as a ground reference. I would recommend a meter instead of the test light so you can see voltage levels.

-Kevin

65 Cayne,
Your advice is brilliant and well appreciated!
My problem is I am not an electrical guy and that's why I bought all new stuff. I didn't even own a voltmeter or test light until 2 weeks ago. I will take these measurements tonight and report out in the morning. I really do love this forum so please hang with me as I am learning as I go which will make this all valuable in the end.
Thanks

65 Cayne,
Your advice is brilliant ...!

it's not my brilliance (I am pretty dim)...You've just been shocked...let go of the wire! ;)

disconnect the yellow wire at both ends (starter and dist.) and try it. with HEI you should not need it. may be back feeding from the Other wire on the distrib threw the yellow and back to the starter. Cant hurt to try

Let me explain my thinking with this so that you all dont think im nuts. He stated that he is getting power threw the yellow wire to the starter. In one of his posts he states that the yellow wire is also connected to the distrib.. one of his post also states that the purple wire has 12v at crank/start and nothing in run. If both the yellow and purple are connected to the S term on the starter, it is feeding 12v from the hei (stated that 2 wires connected to pos. term on hei) back to the S term when the key is in run. The yellow wire between the starter and distrib is not needed so it can be capped at both ends and not even considered. I dont think im nuts here but who knows:confused:

Ktrim,
If nothing shows up tonight when I get to my garage to test what 65Cayne says to test than I may try disconnecting the yellow from Distributor and starter.
I appreciate your advice and I do not think your nuts!

Let me explain my thinking with this so that you all dont think im nuts. He stated that he is getting power threw the yellow wire to the starter. In one of his posts he states that the yellow wire is also connected to the distrib.. one of his post also states that the purple wire has 12v at crank/start and nothing in run. If both the yellow and purple are connected to the S term on the starter, it is feeding 12v from the hei (stated that 2 wires connected to pos. term on hei) back to the S term when the key is in run. The yellow wire between the starter and distrib is not needed so it can be capped at both ends and not even considered. I dont think im nuts here but who knows:confused:

LOL, this has nothing to do with why we think you're nuts... ;)

I'm comfortable "trying it" to an extent, such as disonnecting the alternator or disconnecting the yellow wire. I wouldn't just start connecting stuff haphazardly to try it, though.

***UPDATE****UPDATE****

Ok, I will try and explain my findings the best I can over this post:
I disconnected my wires at the HEI while my friend Worked the key and below is what I found:
Key off: Purple post 0 volts, yellow post 0 volts and HEI 0 volts
Key run: purple post 0, yellow post 0
Key start: Purple post 0 volts???? Yellow 12 Volts???? This explains why my starter kept running and at the HEI 0 Volts????? Now I knew I had issues. I stuck a test light in the terminals at the HEI with key in start and after a couple of seconds looking for the light I started to see smoke billowing out from under the car. Yeah you guessed it the starter!!!!
Well I disconnected the wires at the starter and confirmed that the purple was not getting voltage in start position but the yellow was (Now I need to stop have a beer and think about it. I realized the whole time I am starting the car from the yellow wire and not the purple so I crawled under the dash and pulled out my Neutral Safety wire connectors which I am not using in a 68 with manual trans. I made a jumper with 2 male spade connectors and heavy gauge wire and connected them in the NSS harness. I then tested the starter with jumper cables to find my "S" terminal (it was not marked) and then taped up my yellow wire and attached my purple to the "S" post and guess what? I have 12 volts where it should be. I went to fire up the car and bad news, my starter is fried or burnt up from earlier incident.
The problem was that NSS connector not being looped and the wiring harness company did not specify to loop this in any instructions if not using it. I called M&H and guess what they told me? That the NSS switch should be looped if not going to be used!!! If I wasn't so happy I would be mad........

Story is now I have correct voltage at HEI and Purple "S" post while key is in start mode now. YEAH!!!!!!!!!!! Now all I have to do is buy a NEW Starter and fire this puppy up. I appreciate everyone's troubleshooting on this forum and one day I hope I can repay the favor to someone in need of advice. Thanks to all, maybe soon I will post a video of this thing running.

Thanks,
Kevin

***UPDATE****UPDATE****

...
Key off: Purple post 0 volts, yellow post 0 volts and HEI 0 volts
Key run: purple post 0, yellow post 0
Key start: Purple post 0 volts???? Yellow 12 Volts???? This explains why my starter kept running and at the HEI 0 Volts????? Now I knew I had issues. I stuck a test light in the terminals at the HEI with key in start and after a couple of seconds looking for the light I started to see smoke billowing out from under the car. Yeah you guessed it the starter!!!!
...

Kevin, I am glad you made so much progress but I feel bad about your starter man :(...you promised you would disconnect those wires...:(..."bad things can happen"...

What about the HEI in RUN and START positions? 12v in both?

Please please do not wire anything up until you have verified the circuits are operational (in each of the key positions) with your volt meter. It never hurts to double and triple check....

65Cayne,
It's alright I probably would of paid triple of what a good starter costs just to get this thing running. But you were right that bad things do happen!!!!!!! and I was so overwhelmed by doing these tests I really just jumped in to test the HEI first. I have learned a whole lot from you guys for the last 3 years and appreciate this site.
I have 12volts in run and 12 volts in start mode on the HEI now where I didn't earlier all because of a jumper in the NSS harness. Do you think that makes sense? I would hate to think this solved my issues but really didn't !#$@%$^%^

Thanks again and I look forward talking to you guys later down the road and hopefully it's not about problems.
Thanks again!

**UPDATE***
This weekend I installed my Flywheel, clutch, pressure plate and 4 speed. Everything is working great! I have 70lbs+ of oil pressure but I need to get the straps for my driveshaft to pinion connection tonight.
Thanks again to everyone!!!! IT'S ALIVE.........

I installed the old ignition switch which worked at the original test fire and it did the same exact thing as the new one so I hoped I could eliminate that as a problem. It is hard to state exactly what has been done over this thread. I will get a buddy to come over and actually look under the car as I start it to see if everything is working as it should and check the voltage. Try these links to see the car that was built using Chevelle Tech. If you couldn't tell I am a big fan of this site!!!!


http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll150/ragdollbailey714/Engine7.jpg
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll150/ragdollbailey714/68Chevelle3.jpg
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll150/ragdollbailey714/68Chevelle2.jpg
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll150/ragdollbailey714/68ChevelleSSInterior.jpg

Wow :eek: Another orange 68 And i thought i was different. Your car looks great:thumbsup: Glad to see you got the wiring figured out. I know how frustrating things can be when your reassembling a car. Keep us updated on it.

68Chevyed,
Thanks, I have almost the same exact pictures of my car as I was dismantling and rebuilding all new metal except for the roof. You learn to appreciate them a whole lot more when you see the work that goes into them.
I sprayed my car with Hugger Orange base coat, then 1 coat od Gold pearl on top, then a coat of candy copper with 3 coats of clear. A lot of work but worth every sweat bead. Do you have any finished pics of your car?
Talk to you all soon,
Kevin

68Chevyed,
Thanks, I have almost the same exact pictures of my car as I was dismantling and rebuilding all new metal except for the roof. You learn to appreciate them a whole lot more when you see the work that goes into them.
I sprayed my car with Hugger Orange base coat, then 1 coat od Gold pearl on top, then a coat of candy copper with 3 coats of clear. A lot of work but worth every sweat bead. Do you have any finished pics of your car?
Talk to you all soon,
Kevin

Kevin, Yeah the pics are in my sig under the cardomain link pages 4-5 Also some in the acrodz link under restoration link then completed rides. Mine is HOK Tangilo orange pearl with a ghost 68 stripe

SWWEEEEEET!
I debated HOK Tangelo, regardless that is one hot color. I'm diggin the head rests on the seats. Good luck with your ride and I will be talkin to you later.

Kevin

I am glad you got it fixed!:hurray:

SWWEEEEEET!
I debated HOK Tangelo, regardless that is one hot color. I'm diggin the head rests on the seats. Good luck with your ride and I will be talkin to you later.

Kevin

Went with the HOK for ease of repair if needed. Was going to do as you did originally, But my painter talked me out of it. Still like the pop of yours better.
They are 69 headrests on 68 seats. Painted with 2007 cadillac white pearl with additive for plastic. Seems to be holding up so far.