Prices down on ebay [Archive]

rubadub

Mar 21st, 08, 1:49 AM

Is this just your observation or is this information derived from a reputable source that has actually crunched the numbers?

Please show us the real number matching cars that have sold for 30% less than a comparable car 2 1/2 years ago. :noway:

My reputable source is me and 9 car forums that I frequent on a daily basis to the tune of 10 or 12 hours a day.

I have a couple of friends with expensive cars that went to mecums, and out of respect for them, I won't go into it.

I was present went they went on the trailers and came back with them.

Now that you got me started. heres the real deal.

Matching numbered cars, they bring the most money, almost always, but they have taken a little bit of a beating in the last three years.

In order to sort this out, you need to start somewhere, so lets go with three numbers.

We'll keep this simple, otherwise I would have to type up about 4 full pages, and I type 2 fingered.

#1 condition, driveable, reliable, but rarer then hens teeth, hard to find one, but they are out there.

#2 condition, driveable, but not reliable, probably will overheat or have a mechanical problem.

#3 condition, poor, full of rust but covered up, still bringing good money, as long as it isn't moved around so the rust doesn't start seeping out between the floor supports and floor pans.

Most people that can afford a $75, 000 to $100,000 matching numbered car have a computer, so its getting harder to unload these #3 and sometimes #2 cars.

They are getting educated on what to look for.

Three things are hurting them.

#1 cost of labor and materials and parts to fix them up

#2 computer

#3 digital camera.

The guys with the number one cars are setting in fat city, these cars will stay high and go higher, wish I had one.

But the days of the smoke and mirrors on these #2 and #3 cars are pretty much over.

This gives me an idea, I probably should start a new business, anybody thats thinking about buying a $75,000 or higher muscle car, should ship it to me, and I go over it with a written evaluation, spend about three days on it, charge them a $1000.

So lets say it cost them $1500 to get it here, $1500 to ship it back or to the new owner, plus the $1000 for the evaluation, that $4000 to check it out.

Sounds like a lot of money, but if your talking about a $75,000 car, it isn't.

So, the guy guy selling the $75,000 car, you tell him, that your going to pay the $4000 to get it checked out, and if it isn't up to par, he pays the shipping one way, and the buyer eats the $2500.

So, that will pretty much put the stoppers to the #3 and most of the #2 cars.

That might force these guys out in the open.

Rob:)

Bunz-T

Mar 21st, 08, 6:43 AM

I think it is just all about numbers and trends. I feel there are several reasons the market is correcting.

1. The most obvious is the economy.
2. In my area there are a lot of people that have replaced interest in cars with Harleys.
3. Most Importantly the nicely done car is becoming common place. They are for sale everywhere and not a lot to seperate them . The average person cannot tell much difference in a car taken to the level of John's 70 for sale at maybe $50K and a pretty nice car built for $40K and can be bought for $30K. He does notice the extra $20K.

We are now correcting our way thru the large # of cars built in the last 10 years that are for sale. Certainly a tough time to turn one . I think we have seen the all time high for the common car and it is going to have to be real special to bring $30K or certainly $35K+. The good news is the more affordable the more people that enter the hobby. The bad news is the gap between what it cost to build a nice car and what it will bring will continue to increase.

cwmunson

Mar 21st, 08, 10:10 AM

I don't know the percentage, but if you watched the Barrett-Jackson Auction, numbers-matching Chevelles were being sold for a lot less than previous years. It appeared that "clones" and retro-mods were bringing in the big bucks. I can only guess there is no market for them right now or it's the current trend. :confused:

(66 L-78:Viewing your Profile, I was on a Hospital Ship in the South China Sea, the day you were born. God, I'm gettin' old)! :yes: :(

Respectfully,
John R.

I think you're correct about the big buck "matching number" cars, but I think the daily driver Malibus are still on the rise. I purchased a 1970 for my son and had a heck of time finding an affordable decent car.

For me there is another reason I am hesitant to run out and purchase a "documented" SS for $35 or $45 grand. A big part of that is the selling of VIN tags and bogus build sheets that seems to be pretty common. In fact there are a couple of threads going about that right now. What surprises me is a few members of this forum don't have a problem with people doing that. Most of us believe it's fraud and it's generally considered to be illegal, but we do have the "mind your own business" crowd here. I think it's common knowledge, even among those of us (me) who are not experts, that many cars represented to be SS cars are not. I think that has hurt the value of all the cars. IMHO.

By the way, when you were in the hospital ship, I was a corporal who had been in country 5 months! I returned to the world in June of 1970 as I was short. It's a nasty rumor that they couldn't send you Wespac if youi under a year to go!:D Semper Fi my brother, I am glad you made it home.:thumbsup:

SixActual

Mar 21st, 08, 10:30 AM

John, hats off to you for serving our country...Thank you!!

On a side note,
Aging isn't all that bad...I don't think... after all, they say that the golden years are the best years of your life... ;)

Thanks, 66L! :thumbsup:

Respectfully,
John R.

SixActual

Mar 21st, 08, 10:50 AM

I think you're correct about the big buck "matching number" cars, but I think the daily driver Malibus are still on the rise. I purchased a 1970 for my son and had a heck of time finding an affordable decent car.

For me there is another reason I am hesitant to run out and purchase a "documented" SS for $35 or $45 grand. A big part of that is the selling of VIN tags and bogus build sheets that seems to be pretty common. In fact there are a couple of threads going about that right now. What surprises me is a few members of this forum don't have a problem with people doing that. Most of us believe it's fraud and it's generally considered to be illegal, but we do have the "mind your own business" crowd here. I think it's common knowledge, even among those of us (me) who are not experts, that many cars represented to be SS cars are not. I think that has hurt the value of all the cars. IMHO.

By the way, when you were in the hospital ship, I was a corporal who had been in country 5 months! I returned to the world in June of 1970 as I was short. It's a nasty rumor that they couldn't send you Wespac if youi under a year to go!:D Semper Fi my brother, I am glad you made it home.:thumbsup:

Cliff,

With 40,000+ members, you'll obviously have diversity and with that you'll have many individuals that feel that "re-tagging" a car is all right to do. Well, IMO, as long as they do not attempt to sell it as a matching numbers car, sits just okay with me. However, if they attempt to pawn it off as a "real" car, then simply, they are committing fraud and it is they, who have to live with it.

We all are aware that there are many places on a vehicle that have hidden VIN's, and if one were to know all their locations, a few, fraudulent transactions may not take place. But that's if one knows all those locations and is willing to go through the trouble of checking them, prior to purchase.

Check out the story about this Mustang :

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,340069,00.html

(OT)

Great, Cliff, glad you made it home as well. :beers: So, you were in-country for 10 months?

I'm very glad I made it home too Cliff, but I'm paying for it now, :clonk:and so is the VA. If I can do it, I'll post a pic of me and my '70 SS, LS-6. I'm kinda of pale and thin, but I still had about 21+/- months to go, but I was finally separated in June 1971.

Semper Fi! :thumbsup:

Respectfully,
John R. (0311)

cwmunson

Mar 21st, 08, 11:45 AM

Cliff,

With 40,000+ members, you'll obviously have diversity and with that you'll have many individuals that feel that "re-tagging" a car is all right to do. Well, IMO, as long as they do not attempt to sell it as a matching numbers car, sits just okay with me. However, if they attempt to pawn it off as a "real" car, then simply, they are committing fraud and it is they, who have to live with it.

We all are aware that there are many places on a vehicle that have hidden VIN's, and if one were to know all their locations, a few, fraudulent transactions may not take place. But that's if one knows all those locations and is willing to go through the trouble of checking them, prior to purchase.

Check out the story about this Mustang :

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,340069,00.html

(OT)

Great, Cliff, glad you made it home as well. :beers: So, you were in-country for 10 months?

I'm very glad I made it home too Cliff, but I'm paying for it now, :clonk:and so is the VA. If I can do it, I'll post a pic of me and my '70 SS, LS-6. I'm kinda of pale and thin, but I still had about 21+/- months to go, but I was finally separated in June 1971.

Semper Fi! :thumbsup:

Respectfully,
John R. (0311)

I saw that story this morning on Fox news. That was some fine police work!:D

Yeah, I was in country for almost 10 months, short of that I think by about 11 days. When I got orders to go I only had about 11 months left in the Marine Corps. I had played Division I college and some minor league baseball, so I ended up playing for the Camp Pendleton Marines. I thought I was going to skate, but as soon as the season was over I got orders. After Staging Battalion I only had about 10 months left on my enlistment. I told the C.O. I couldn't serve a full tour and beside that, who was going to play left field next season? He told me to serve what I could and they would probably find someone!:yes: I did what I was told. My MOS was 2111 so I was a REMF in the rear with the gear. I can't say I was sorry about that. I got promoted to Sergeant 21 days before RELAD and was offered Staff if I would extend:noway: I loved the Marine Corps but never considered making it a career. My father in law is a retired Sergeant Major and I have now been a career firefighter for over 30 years. I made the right choice.

Semper Fi

69396ss

Mar 21st, 08, 11:47 AM

Most Importantly the nicely done car is becoming common place. They are for sale everywhere and not a lot to seperate them . The average person cannot tell much difference in a car taken to the level of John's 70 for sale at maybe $50K and a pretty nice car built for $40K and can be bought for $30K. He does notice the extra $20K.

The bad news is the gap between what it cost to build a nice car and what it will bring will continue to increase.

I'd agree that building a top notch car, other than a high horse numbers car, is an excercise in futility.

In my case (as you likely generously calculated) that there would be at least a $10K Loss minimum if I sold.

And here I'm investing another $800 in a Smog system so make it $11K.

I still do believe however, that the high horse thouroughbreds such as the LS6 or Hemi's, will continue to flourish.

With that, I think the high quality recreations will also perhaps hold, rather than fall.

This due to the increasing costs for the rare High Horse cars.

The Well done, (Nut and Bolt, Correct Component) COPO's, Hemi Clones, Yenko's, and hopefully even LS6 recreations, may still be able to scratch out a portion the dwindling Pie Crust.

And if i'm wrong..... Well.... sure beats spending the Money on a Bar Stool. :D

In my opinion, the time you spend enjoying this Hobby has to count for something.

Calculate any potential money lost, divide by the months you owned and enjoyed the car, and chances are, your still getting a bargain to drive and own an American Muscle car.

In my case, Loosing $10,000 on my car would calculate to costing me $277 per month for the entertainment value of owning, building and showing this 500HP Red on Red Thumper.

"Peanuts and Beer money" :D

The investment value of these cars is only a side bar to the pride of accomplishment felt building them.

But as they say, Buy Low and Sell High. Hang on to your cars at all cost Gentlemen.

The market will re-correct in the upward trend.

It's just a matter of time.

skyman51

Mar 21st, 08, 12:06 PM

The matching numbered cars are down about 30% from 2 1/2 years ago, the others didn't take that big a hit, but there down a little, but look for the non matching numbered cars to keep gaining on the matching numbered ones.

Rob

When will we stop beating this dead horse? The whole economy is down. Everything runs in cyckes. REAL cars with REAL paperwork will seem cheap in five years. Clones and tributes will go no where. The only folks that seem to be worried about where the current prices are, are the ones the bought a couple years or so ago for big bucks and hoped to make money and now either want to sell or have to sell and they are going to take a beating. I personally think just like the stock market, the car market is a buying opportunity for the real deals. JMO

69396ss

Mar 21st, 08, 12:12 PM

skyman51

Mar 21st, 08, 1:13 PM

As your cars continue to go up Rob, clones and tributes will follow as the desire for the unobtainable is human nature, as is settling for second best :D

Watch the $100,000 Hemi Clone cars sales trends as the thouroughbreds they emulate, become more and more of an unobtainable Legend.

Price me out a nut and bolt "Superbird", or a top notch 427 Side Oiler Cobra.

The desire for the "best of the Best" will always be there, unobtainable as ever, driving the market for "second best" if built to the nut and bolt, using correct components.

John

Most of my collector friends diasgree with that analysis. Clones and tributes are not going to keep pace with the real thing. I don;t know about you but I might pay 30K for a tribute SS but I sure would not pay 75K for a clone LS6 just because the real one is 125-150K. None of my cars are for sale so price is a moot point. I have them because I love the cars and the shows. I don;t look at them everyday to see what they are worth. That only matters when you sell and with all the constant talk about prices,it tells me that more folks are interested in selling their cars then enjoying them. Clone away if what you want is a fun car to enjoy,but buy real if you are concerned about what it is worth.

69396ss

Mar 21st, 08, 2:31 PM

What condition would you expect your tribute SS 454 to be in for 30K?

Not building where you can control your costs, but buying?

Would it be nice enough to "show" if that's how you enjoyed participating in this hobby?

Would it maybe be a top 50? at best in a local 200 car show? Passed over again and again for a "specialty award". A lot filler.

How about a Best of Show? Best GM? What if that's the kind of car you want?

A numbers car in that caliber will cost you $100K+ for a 454 SS.

Now, take a LS6 Recreation, or a HEMI Cuda recreation, or a 69 COPO recreation.

Take them and produce them to the Nut and Bolt.

Use the ERA correct 427 in the Copo, Use a nice Hemi Crate with every original detail and paint dab. Use the 291 Heads intake and carb on the LS6, mated to a 500HP 4 Bolt.

Restore it to the nut and bolt with "Clear Coated Cotter Pins", "chalk Marks" "Overspray" and "grease pencil codes"

NOW..... your talking recreation.

Will you pay $50K for the 69 COPO restored to this level of "best GM" while the original costs well over $100,000?

Remember the Orange 60 COPO Clone that hit $60K reserve not met recently?

$50K-$60K for a top notch "recreation" Clone and as the cost of a quality restoration rises, so will this caliber of Clone.

Don't confuse a 30K SS Clone with a Nut and Bolt Quality recreation.

Watch and see.:thumbsup: They don't come up often.

skyman51

Mar 21st, 08, 4:17 PM

69396ss

Mar 21st, 08, 4:30 PM

I wish Rob, that everyone could afford both quality, and originality, unfortunately, not everyone can enjoy a stable such as yours.

I would argue your opinion as well if I could afford to.

Many in this hobby though, are forced to choose between quality, and originality because both, are typically unobtainable.

I think the market will flex to the growing market's desire for the rare High Horse specimens that are unobtainable, and hold high quality recreations, a viable and desirable alternative.

Time will tell, and as always, just an opinion. :beers:

skyman51

Mar 21st, 08, 4:54 PM

69396ss

Mar 21st, 08, 5:20 PM

skyman51

Mar 21st, 08, 5:50 PM

ssjeff396

Mar 22nd, 08, 10:55 AM

Rob, with all due respect, I proudly exclaim my car is a recreation with every post I make in full view within my signature.

My car will stand on it's own merits if, or when, I ever decide to sell it.

If I ever Pi** on your leg, I'll be the first one to tell you. :)

I feel the same way about my tribute recreation, but take a look at how weak this car was bid on ebay. Makes no sense to me. Maybe not the right place for a car like this. What do you guys think? I hope you won't be telling me I pi**ed on my leg.:noway:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=004&sspagename=STRK%3AMEUS%3AIT&viewitem=&item=140214921288&rd=1

Dean

Mar 22nd, 08, 11:18 AM

I feel the same way about my tribute recreation, but take a look at how weak this car was bid on ebay. Makes no sense to me. Maybe not the right place for a car like this. What do you guys think? I hope you won't be telling me I pi**ed on my leg.:noway:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=004&sspagename=STRK%3AMEUS%3AIT&viewitem=&item=140214921288&rd=1

I really believe that a couple of years ago that car would have been bid up much much higher.

I also *think* that the prices WILL come back in a few years. (we'll see)

69396ss

Mar 22nd, 08, 2:27 PM

Wow Jeff, that's a rough one.

It's a nice car and I can tell it was built with love but I don't know if the Motion tributes will pull alot.

Motions were more Custom Modded cars than anything else.

Let's face it, some of those Motion Corvettes were down right Ugly.

Kind of the "70's custom" Look.

Custom cars have always been, and always are harder to sell.

You have to find a buyer who wants "exactly" how it's been modified.

Not that it's value is any lower persay, moreso that the potential buyers out there to get in a bidding war, will be fewer with a Custom Car.

I'd definately try a www.carsonline.com Ad for something like that, other than a 7 day e-bay auction.

A Custom Modified car will take a little longer to find an enthusiastic buyer.

Definately a Cool Car Jeff. :thumbsup: I sure wouldn't give it away for that.

66 L78 ragtop

Mar 22nd, 08, 3:58 PM

My reputable source is me and 9 car forums that I frequent on a daily basis to the tune of 10 or 12 hours a day.

#1 condition, driveable, reliable, but rarer then hens teeth, hard to find one, but they are out there.

#2 condition, driveable, but not reliable, probably will overheat or have a mechanical problem.

#3 condition, poor, full of rust but covered up, still bringing good money, as long as it isn't moved around so the rust doesn't start seeping out between the floor supports and floor pans.

Rob:)

Rob thanks for sharing your personal thoughts on the muscle car market...but I'm not so sure that I would consider your personal views reputable...But, I can say that I appreciate your opinion...

Please take no offense, but if you are really spending 10 to 12 hours per day looking at forums, there is definately something wrong...there is a lot more to life than sitting at a computer for 10 to 12 hours per day. If this is truly the case, seek help!!...this is a very unhealthy behavior...

By the way, where did you get the definitions for the #1, #2 and #3 car rating system? Just curious...

rubadub

Mar 22nd, 08, 8:25 PM

Rob thanks for sharing your personal thoughts on the muscle car market...but I'm not so sure that I would consider your personal views reputable...But, I can say that I appreciate your opinion...

Please take no offense, but if you are really spending 10 to 12 hours per day looking at forums, there is definately something wrong...there is a lot more to life than sitting at a computer for 10 to 12 hours per day. If this is truly the case, seek help!!...this is a very unhealthy behavior...

By the way, where did you get the definitions for the #1, #2 and #3 car rating system? Just curious...

You say I sould seek help, and this is a very unhealthy behavior.

I really enjoy these car forums, this one is my favorite.

I'm 66 years old and don't take any medication. Whats unhealthy about it?

Rob

Ls6Convertible

Mar 23rd, 08, 2:00 AM

rubadub

Mar 23rd, 08, 3:18 AM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"The matching numbered cars are down about 30% from 2 1/2 years ago, the others didn't take that big a hit, but there down a little, but look for the non matching numbered cars to keep gaining on the matching numbered ones." ................................................. So the clones are a good investment,huh?

It depends on the quality of the restoration on the clone, if there done right there pretty nice drivers.

I assume you have an ls6 or maybe several of them, put some close up pictures on here, so I can assign you a number.

69396ss

Mar 23rd, 08, 10:52 AM

Saying that Clones are Good investments as a generalization may be stretching the conversation slightly.

High Horse Numbered thouroughbreds are (as always) good investments.

Average quality cars (numbers or not) are taking a beating.

High Caliber recreations may hold there ground better than the "loss taking" average quality cars as the "high horse" cars they emulate, continue to rise.

With all of these generalities, "quality" is the main variable.

Build quality and correct cosmetics are becoming just as important as numbers to some, as having both is often out of reach for many.

Moreso now than ever, the price of "Quality" becomes evidant, and seeing $50,000-$100,000 asking prices on high caliber recreations will not be uncommon when the cars they emulate reach $1/4 Million or more.

http://www.cars-on-line.com/33429.html

http://www.myhotcars.com/used-cars.php?id=5e744da1d2a561065dc7240d097aa816

.

66 L78 ragtop

Mar 23rd, 08, 4:32 PM

You say I sould seek help, and this is a very unhealthy behavior.

I really enjoy these car forums, this one is my favorite.

I'm 66 years old and don't take any medication. Whats unhealthy about it?

Rob

Sitting at a computer for 10-12 continuous hours:
Increased DVT risk
Increased PE risk
Increased rate of lumbar disc disease (back pain, sciatica)
Poor ergonomics and increased risk for neck, back, shoulder elbow pain ect
Increased risk for glaucoma
Generalized cardiopulmonary deconditioning
If sitting at computer for more that 2 hours in same position increased risk for pressure sores
Not to mention the psychosocial implications of this behavior

Given your advanced age, your risks are even greater

...Just to name a few...

Smokers tend to feel the same as you...
"I have been smoking for 30 years and I feel great"
These are the folks that later come to the doctor with emphysema, COPD, throat cancer, lung cancer etc.

If you are truly as healthy as you claim to be...I think that's wonderful and wish you another 66 + healthy years.

If you need more information...talk to your doctor
In my opinion a balanced life is a happy and healthy life...
Sitting in front of a computer for 12 hours per day is certainly not living a balanced life and appears somwhat obsessive...

Anymore information beyond this...I'll have to send you a bill:thumbsup:

66 L78 ragtop

Mar 23rd, 08, 4:44 PM

rubadub

Mar 23rd, 08, 9:42 PM

Sitting at a computer for 10-12 continuous hours:
Increased DVT risk
Increased PE risk
Increased rate of lumbar disc disease (back pain, sciatica)
Poor ergonomics and increased risk for neck, back, shoulder elbow pain ect
Increased risk for glaucoma
Generalized cardiopulmonary deconditioning
If sitting at computer for more that 2 hours in same position increased risk for pressure sores
Not to mention the psychosocial implications of this behavior

Given your advanced age, your risks are even greater

...Just to name a few...

Smokers tend to feel the same as you...
"I have been smoking for 30 years and I feel great"
These are the folks that later come to the doctor with emphysema, COPD, throat cancer, lung cancer etc.

If you are truly as healthy as you claim to be...I think that's wonderful and wish you another 66 + healthy years.

If you need more information...talk to your doctor
In my opinion a balanced life is a happy and healthy life...
Sitting in front of a computer for 12 hours per day is certainly not living a balanced life and appears somwhat obsessive...

Anymore information beyond this...I'll have to send you a bill:thumbsup:

I see your 38 years old, son, I've been there and back, you stay in the truck on this staying healthy business.

I quit working at 61 1/2 years old, retired. At that age i could put on a full scba pack, and taped up tight with protective clothing so no contamination could get to me, and scale a ladder with out any problems, and I'm 66 right now, and can still do it.

You seem like a decent guy, but I don't like being questioned about my honesty.

I noticed you say you work out, well when I was 38 I was working as a laborer, fact is most of the jobs I have had were the same as being a laborer, good hard work, and being honest, thats what life is all about.

You say I should seek help, you remember what you told me when you turn 66.

Oh, another thing here, all these hours on a computer, I just set down here about a half hour ago, I got a private message from one of our members about a supplied air system, of which I have a lot of information on my website. So I took the time to help the man out with his questions.

I get emails, telephone calls, and private messages about my web site, and sometimes when I don't have the answers I will get on the other 8 forums and start searching.

My site was started in feb. of 2007, so thats about 13 months that it has been on.

My counter says 39462 hits, so thats about 100 a day on average, it varies from 40 to over 200 a day depending on how much stuff i post.

When you put out a bunch of information with pictures, you will get questions and you also have to defend it, so it all adds up.

For instance on my web site theres a airline drawing, people look at that and say yeah thats pretty good, but what they don't know is how much time this takes.

That drawing took 3 or 4 afternoons and evenings, the drawing is four foot long, with separate sheets of paper scotched taped to make it, then I brought in some lights and the bride and I took lots of different pictures to make it readable and sized right, then you have to resize the pictures and put it on the web site.

This web site is a group effort by a me and my 65 year old bride, we have spent a lot of hours on this. Take a look at the amount of pictures alone, son you have no idea how much time goes into something like this.

I don't think I hollared at you to much, you really seem like a decent type guy. You have a good one.:thumbsup:

Rob

rubadub

Mar 23rd, 08, 9:58 PM

This is Rob's bride...I have my own website I work on sometimes 12 hours or more a day, 7 days a week and have been for over ten years, which includes photographing many cemeteries..every stone. Check the counter at the bottom. This is all out of my pocket, volunteer and when I can no longer work on it, the local library will maintain it and keep it online because it's the best county genealogy resource online, and it's only pertinent for this county.
When you told Rob that it's unhealthy to be on the computer for so many hours, how do you suppose the information that people use gets online??

http://www.2manitowoc.com

69396ss

Mar 23rd, 08, 10:39 PM

I'll admit, I raised an eyebrow too when I read 12 hours a day on car forums, and if strictly on car forums, that would be a little obsessive.

But how many of us "car guys" who detail our cars with Q-tips, pick tiny pieces of Bug wings out of our radiators and ensure every little bolt has the correct head markings when building our cars can say we're not obsessive as well? :D

As far as I'm concerned any time spent other than sitting on a bar stool is time well spent.

Don't sweat the small stuff guys, at 66 and retired, you're pretty much entitled to do whatever the heck you please. :thumbsup:

Andy69

Mar 23rd, 08, 10:46 PM

69396ss

Mar 23rd, 08, 10:49 PM

Rob has a Chevelle? :D

Andy69

Mar 23rd, 08, 10:58 PM

Rob has a Chevelle? :D

that's what I heard

rubadub

Mar 24th, 08, 12:34 AM

I'll be back on it later this week.:)

Rob

Dean

Mar 24th, 08, 10:30 AM

There couldn't be a better way to keep up on current prices than watching them on the internet BUT, you gotta admit two things Rob.
1) WE aren't getting enough exercise.
2) WE aren't getting much done to our cars.
setting in front of these dang machines.

WE are enjoying retired life though, aren't WE. :yes:

dreis454

Mar 24th, 08, 10:54 AM

BTW Rob,66 L78 Ragtop is a Doctor I believe.

69396ss

Mar 24th, 08, 11:59 AM

Just be glad he's not a fortune Teller :D

"You stay in the truck on this "Healthy Buisness" young Man! :D

Geez Rob, :D

66 L78 ragtop

Mar 24th, 08, 1:31 PM

:)BTW Rob,66 L78 Ragtop is a Doctor I believe.

Hi Rob,

I'm actually 36, a Licensed Medical Doctor and Licensed Physical Therapist.
The risk factors as stated are real...You asked me "what is unhealthy about sitting for prolonged periods of time"... and I answered...

So moving on...I am a fan of your website and feel that you and your wife have done a spectacular job in developing it. All of your hard work and contribution to this hobby is very much appreciated.

Looking forward to meeting you and your wife some day!!

Man, I haven't been scolded like that in a long time!!
I guess I'll go to my room now LOL

rubadub

Mar 24th, 08, 4:16 PM

:)

Hi Rob,

I'm actually 36, a Licensed Medical Doctor and Licensed Physical Therapist.
The risk factors as stated are real...You asked me "what is unhealthy about sitting for prolonged periods of time"... and I answered...

So moving on...I am a fan of your website and feel that you and your wife have done a spectacular job in developing it. All of your hard work and contribution to this hobby is very much appreciated.

Looking forward to meeting you and your wife some day!!

Man, I haven't been scolded like that in a long time!!
I guess I'll go to my room now LOL

I looked at your profile, and saw your age and the amount of cars you have, and that you were in the medical profession. So I had a pretty good idea that you were a doctor.

I will commend you on that, I can't imagine going to school that long, that would take a real commitement. Before I forget, it would be a good thing to have your first name, most of us that post quite a bit are on a first name basis.

I graduated from high school in 1959, 12 in my class, went to college in michigan for one term, I was in over my head, always been a slow learner, unless its something that interests me.

Thats the thing about these forums, you have the old stray dogs like me, right off the street, right up to some highly educated individuals.

When I post something I usually check out there profile. I wish more of them would fill it out.

Anytime somebody posts about matching numbers and clones, it usually ends up in some controversy. I don't want to lose what I posted here, but I believe your from around Chicago, so next time a good sized car show comes up, I'm 3 hours from there, I'll come down and introduce myself.

I have never met anyone on this forum in person, I would like to.

Anyway, I think I might of came across a little to harsh, so my apology is in order here. You have a good one.

Rob

rubadub

Mar 24th, 08, 4:34 PM

69396ss

Mar 24th, 08, 4:48 PM

Whatever he admits to, triple it. :D

Look at his post count :D

rubadub

Mar 24th, 08, 4:50 PM

We'll see what he says, then we'll take it from there.:)

dashboard

Mar 24th, 08, 6:32 PM

How did we get from prices down on e-bay to Rob and Deans health??

Hope both of you are doing well and with spring coming, we can all get out and walk around a little. Anyway Rob and Dean you two are some of the corner stones, of this site, your no BS straight forward approach is both refreshing and respected by this reader. Nice to know there is homework and research behind the answers.

Thanks for what you do for this hobby every day, no one loves it more then you guy’s.

Now if I can revert to my old Master Chief roll for a second, both you guy’s give me 10 push ups. Doc's right move around a little.

rubadub

Mar 24th, 08, 8:04 PM

66 L78 ragtop

Mar 24th, 08, 8:28 PM

I looked at your profile, and saw your age and the amount of cars you have, and that you were in the medical profession. So I had a pretty good idea that you were a doctor.

I will commend you on that, I can't imagine going to school that long, that would take a real commitement. Before I forget, it would be a good thing to have your first name, most of us that post quite a bit are on a first name basis.

I graduated from high school in 1959, 12 in my class, went to college in michigan for one term, I was in over my head, always been a slow learner, unless its something that interests me.

Thats the thing about these forums, you have the old stray dogs like me, right off the street, right up to some highly educated individuals.

When I post something I usually check out there profile. I wish more of them would fill it out.

Anytime somebody posts about matching numbers and clones, it usually ends up in some controversy. I don't want to lose what I posted here, but I believe your from around Chicago, so next time a good sized car show comes up, I'm 3 hours from there, I'll come down and introduce myself.

I have never met anyone on this forum in person, I would like to.

Anyway, I think I might of came across a little to harsh, so my apology is in order here. You have a good one.

Rob

Hi Rob,

My name is Orlando...I'm also interested in seeing how much time folks spend on TC forum. I average 30 minutes per day..Sometimes a little more depending if there is an interesting topic.

Maby someone should set up a poll...I'm sure the site administrators would be interested in these numbers...

Regards,
OC

Dean

Mar 24th, 08, 9:15 PM

I'm also interested in seeing how much time folks spend on TC forum.....
Maybe someone should set up a poll..

Good idea Orlando, maybe I'll do that.

I've been spending probably 10-15 hours a day, (not just on Team Chevelle though) every day since I retired 5 1/2 years ago and probably 5-6 hours a day most days before that since around 1980. (I'm addicted.) :(
My first computer was a Radio Shack TRS? with a 5 1/4" floppy drive and NO hard drive.

My heart doctor told me to start walking everyday and I walked around the block one day and quit. :o

Being a MD you'll love this, I set here and chain smoke and drink tea while I'm on the computer. :o :o :(

How about putting up some pictures of your Chevelles.

ssjeff396

Mar 24th, 08, 9:32 PM

anychevy

Mar 24th, 08, 10:24 PM

let me know what you think about my chevelle and why it did so poorly.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=004&sspagename=STRK%3AMEUS%3AIT&viewitem=&item=140214921288&rd=1
Thanks,
Jeff

I'm no expert on COPO tributes but I'll give you my 2 cents
Black on black, nice :thumbsup: but not for everyone, T350 ? Maybe a 4 speed or a T400 with console would have done better ? No undercariage pics, not much said about the body and paint condition
(even though you can see your reflection in it) I'm guessing not a period correct block ?
But having said that, I still would have thought high 20s at least, maybe you just haven't found the right guy yet :confused:

rubadub

Mar 25th, 08, 1:09 AM

I think your pictures and where you took them might have cost you ten grand.

The reason I say this, we were into motorcycles for a couple of years, a lot of them plus a lot of parts on ebay.

After a while we figured out with the right pictures and really clear pictures we would get at least a third more for our stuff.

Heres a few suggestions.

The place you took them probably hurt you the worst.

The yellow lines, one is kind of smeared on the blacktop, the grayish looking sky, and it looks like the light was directly overhead.

The one tree without any leaves and the back field is kind of gloomy looking.

You did have a fairly lighter background, but not the right one.

Anyway, I would hire someone to take the pictures, unless you know somebody that is into photography, you can get a professional photographer for a couple hundred bucks to get you some good high resolution pictures.

A golf course might be a good bet for a background, green isn't the ideal background for black, but if its a sunny day you might make it work, or some new concrete with a stylish newer type building might work.

You need to find an inviting type background, this is kind of hard to explain, but I think you understand what I'm trying to say.

So, a bright sunny day, close to sunset with the sun at your back, a lighter background, at least a half a dozen pictures underneath the car, and all of your pictures need to be clear.

Hope this might help you.:thumbsup:

Rob

rubadub

Mar 25th, 08, 5:17 AM

Good idea Orlando, maybe I'll do that.

I've been spending probably 10-15 hours a day, (not just on Team Chevelle though) every day since I retired 5 1/2 years ago and probably 5-6 hours a day most days before that since around 1980. (I'm addicted.) :(
My first computer was a Radio Shack TRS? with a 5 1/4" floppy drive and NO hard drive.

My heart doctor told me to start walking everyday and I walked around the block one day and quit. :o

Being a MD you'll love this, I set here and chain smoke and drink tea while I'm on the computer. :o :o :(

How about putting up some pictures of your Chevelles.

You being on the computer and chain smoking reminds me of this.

The bride and I quit smoking a couple of years ago.

Just before she quit.

Anyway, I'm setting there watching tv, and I can hear that bic lighter snap when she lights up a cigarette, so I said, you know Shari, your smoking one cigarette right after the other, you must be smoking about 4 packs a day, she got the ears back and turned on me, no I'm not at all.

Shes been a stay at home homemaker, so she could smoke when ever she wanted to.

Our computers only last about four years, then they go belly up, so one day her computer quits. I said we just bought that one, whats with that, looked at the check book, and it was only four months old.

So I take it to where we bought it, it was a place that builds you a computer, I get a call the next day, that its all fixed, I go in to get it, and ask what happened to it, the girl said it was full of nicotine, locked that baby right up.

I guess it stands to reason that could happen, that little fan is sucking the smoke right in there. You ever have this problem Dean?

Rob

rubadub

Mar 25th, 08, 5:34 AM

This might help.

Top 8 DON'T - As Advised By 'Speed' Magazine http://image-cache.boostcruising.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/angry.gif
-Don't shoot your car on grass or sand (You wouldn't believe how many times this came up over the article) leave it for the cows. http://image-cache.boostcruising.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/head_wall.gif
- Don't allow telegraph poles or trees to be in the background as it will look like they are sticking out of your cars roof.
- Don't leave windows half open.
- Don't shoot dark cars in the middle of the day.
- Don't have shadows cast under or over the car.
- Don't forget to wash your car, dirt really shows up in pictures.
- Don't just take one shot.

I know most of them a gimmies but you'd be surprised how many cars I see on here not following the most obvious ones.

Top 8 DOS - As Advised By 'Speed' Magazine http://image-cache.boostcruising.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif
- Do shoot your car on concrete or asphalt; it looks natural
- Do shoot dark cars in soft ambient late-afternoon light. (Sunset always looks awesome)
- Do examine the paint all the paintwork for clean, simple reflections
- Do point the wheels AWAY from the camera (so everyone can see your wicked expensive rims)
- Do keep the background clean and simple (remember it’s about your ride not the scenery)
- Do try to find a low angle that will make your car look phat.
- Do detail everything, such as windows, tires and inner guards.
- Do experiment and practice.

Other photo tips from professional photographers such as Mark Bean, Guy Bowden, Cristian Brunnelli or Tony Rabbitte. http://image-cache.boostcruising.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif

- Shoot dark cars at sunset or sunrise, shoot bright cars in sunshine. Pearl, candy and metallic need sun and lots of it.
- Again NO grass, sand or trees growing out of the roof. http://image-cache.boostcruising.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/head_wall.gif
- Gaffer tape is a useful waxing tool on carpet if a vacuum cleaner is not at the ready.
- Black the tires, black the tires, black the tires.
- Check the off-camera objects and make sure your mates yellow R32 isn't reflecting in your beautiful paintwork. Ensure your shots are clean. Top photographers use the reflection of the landscape horizon to emphasize body lines.
- Hit the deck cars look great from a low angle, giving that mean outta-my-way stance. Beware of ants.
- Do try taking shots of your car on the move action shots always look great.
- Again make sure your car is immaculately clean with all those little extras not forgotten.
- When taking interior shots park the whole car in a shaded area.
- Study your subject first. Walk around the car and view it at different view points, to see which angle looks best.
- Don't be afraid to move your car around, this will make your collection more diverse.

Rob

Dean

Mar 25th, 08, 8:36 AM

I can't believe how much input I have received about my car and the prices seeming to be down on ebay. LOL The posts have been interesting and entertaining. If anyone gets bored and has a few minutes, let me know what you think about my chevelle and why it did so poorly.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=004&sspagename=STRK%3AMEUS%3AIT&viewitem=&item=140214921288&rd=1
Thanks,
Jeff
This, along with the one on the deck lid is probably one of the reasons.
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s228/deancall/Team/motion692.jpg
It’s a very nice Chevelle but those ugly stripes are a turn off since it’s not really a Motion car. But like I said, I bet it would have brought a lot more a couple of years ago.

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s228/deancall/Team/movingbug.gif

mr 4 speed

Mar 25th, 08, 9:01 AM

Jeff,I absolutely love that 69..as it sits :cool: :thumbsup:
Looks like a very well done ride...nice job
I am jealous..that car would look great parked next to my 70 SS454
In today's market,it should draw 30K IMHO
I still see people trying to get 25K for a 72 SS 350 Chevelle..soooo..thats my take

skyman51

Mar 25th, 08, 9:05 AM

My last comment on the whole subject. First we are all car folks and we should enjoy our cars in anyway it makes us happy,but since this thread started with that dirty word value I will just say that I have been offered and turned down a minimum of 28% profit on one and more then 30% on the other two of my cars. That is because they are the real thing,documented with no excuses or explanations needed. That tells me that for the right car in this very selective market place they are still great investments.:thumbsup:

Dean

Mar 25th, 08, 9:11 AM

I have been offered way more than my car is actually worth several times BUT not in the last few months.

skyman51

Mar 25th, 08, 9:53 AM

I have been offered way more than my car is actually worth several times BUT not in the last few months.

Dean

I have had these offers in the last nine months.

69396ss

Mar 25th, 08, 9:58 AM

Chris Stanwyck

Mar 25th, 08, 10:09 AM

This, along with the one on the deck lid is probably one of the reasons.
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s228/deancall/Team/motion692.jpg
It’s a very nice Chevelle but those ugly stripes are a turn off since it’s not really a Motion car. But like I said, I bet it would have brought a lot more a couple of years ago.

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s228/deancall/Team/movingbug.gif

Ugly, gee thanx Dean.

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r29/Jutskin/random017.jpg

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r29/Jutskin/random025.jpg

Guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Trust me it was tough to lose the SS hood but this one is way cooler (literally) after it was done. Maybe it's the colour scheme.
Been a Chevelle guy for 33 years.

69396ss

Mar 25th, 08, 10:42 AM

I don't think it's "Ugly" I just think that Custom Modified cars take longer to Sell than Stock restored.

Dean

Mar 25th, 08, 11:07 AM

"beauty is in the eye of the beholder"
That's it right there, not enough percentage of prospective buyers that are beholders of the beauty, especially since there have been less buyers in the last few months anyway.

Now IF it was the real thing maybe but not for a home brewed car because most people will want to do their own thing with something like that.

Of course this whole thread is mostly conjecture and personal opinions anyway and that is just my personal opinion because he asked.

mr 4 speed

Mar 25th, 08, 11:43 AM

I personally wouldn't use ebay as a gauge. It is its own world IMHO and experience.
The car might do better advertised in Hemmings,Deals On Wheels or even at a localized level.
The careful buyers really won't even go on ebay.They want to see it,feel it and if they like it,pay cash and leave with it.

ssjeff396

Mar 25th, 08, 12:13 PM

I appreciate the input. I actually know of a new building here in town with MOTION industries on the building. If I park the car right, the only thing seen above the car would be the big Motion sign. Thanks for the tips.
Jeff

ssjeff396

Mar 25th, 08, 12:29 PM

I really appreciate all the feedback!:hurray: Unlike a lot of folks, I am a big boy and do not wear my feelings on my shoulders. I can see the points about non originality, and customization. I have several all original factory cars that are sought after and will bring the money any day as has been stated.
I guess my thinking at the time was that I have seen so many YENKO clones that it might be fun, even though more difficult, to build a MOTION clone. I guess the good thing is that I don't have to sell it, and my thoughts were more about if I were going to let it go, don't give it away. When you do the work yourself there is an undefined correlation between dollars and sweat equity. While I could "afford" to sell it for a lesser amount, should I based on the market, or hold it til it corrects?
Anyway, I digress, thanks for the comments and praise it or bash it if you will, cause all input helps for future projects. I have always said, "If you can't learn anymore, you can't grow, if you can't grow, you are on the way to dead." :beers:

Jeff

rubadub

Mar 26th, 08, 2:27 AM

Jeff, I don't know if you have ever seen this dealers web site, but he sells a lot of cars, and he always has some similar to yours, anyway, here it is.

http://www.showdownmusclecars.com/

Rob

Enforcer505

Mar 26th, 08, 12:15 PM

muscle car market is still strong in ontario here. MOPAR projects ie cuda, challengers, chargers still selling strong. chevys and fords have been hit bad. simple supply and demand. and the supply of restored cars is greater then the demand for them. i knew this would happen, and now ppl will complain they lost money on there investments. the way gas keeps going up (they forecast $1.40 a CDN litre here in the summer) then many will be forced to sell or get into another investment area. because to me if you buy a car to flip your a business man, if you work on your own car and enjoy it, its a hobby!!!

Greg

Apr 13th, 08, 10:43 AM

The only folks that seem to be worried about where the current prices are, are the ones the bought a couple years or so ago for big bucks and hoped to make money and now either want to sell or have to sell and they are going to take a beating.

I've said this before, and apparently it bears repeating...
At most, you will make chump change by buying a Chevelle, fixing it up, and then attempting to sell it for a profit.
The motive for buying and fixing up a Chevelle should be the fun of doing and owning it...the enjoyment factor.
If you have a motive of making money, then you should invest your money in the stock market. For profit potential, you'll do much better over the long haul then putting money in a Chevelle in hopes of making a profit several years down the road. In fact, sometimes through smart investing, you can hit pay dirt in the short term with the stock market...
When Google had it's IPO back in late 2004, it could be had for $85 a share.
With $30,000 you could have bought around 350 shares of Google stock.
Three years later, in the fall of 2007, Google was trading at $700 a share.
You could have sold your 350 shares of Google stock for around $250,000.
That's $220,000 profit in three years...36 months.
Now, that's some serious money.

No, if I'm going to sweat and toil in my garage on my Chevelle (which I do), I'm going to do it for the enjoyment of refurbishing the car as a hobby...not as an attempt to perhaps make some chump change down the road.
There are much easier ways to make money...serious money...than toiling in your garage.
Plus, with VIN tags being sold nowadays, and "documents" readily forged with a computer by unscrupulous, clever guys, you can't be absolutely certain what you have unless perhaps you personally know the history of the car.
Heck, some guys around my area were selling VIN tags earlier this year.

Moral of the story...
Restore and refurbish your Chevelle for the fun factor, for the fun of doing it and the fun of owning it.
If your motive is making money, stop putting it into a Chevelle and begin doing some smart investing in the stock market.

-Greg