I'm anticipating the 'Velle breaking into the 11s at some point in the future. I'm starting to think about roll bars. However, do I even NEED a roll bar at 11.99?

In addition, any BTDT advice for a guy who's thinking about getting a roll bar installed? The interior has never been redone, and that needs to be taken care of as well. In what order should these things progress?

Oh, I'd like to cut up as little stuff as possible. Isn't there a bar setup that has the rear downs going through the speaker holes in the package tray?

And don't they make legal swing-out bars, or do I not need side bars at that point?

good question, that would kind of suck to run 11.99's though without a bar. The added weight of a bar will probably drop you back to the 12.0's again wouldn't it?

Well, my optimistic mind is telling me that when I hit 11s, I'm going to hit them HARD, and not squeak in with some 11.9-something.

Good point you bring up, though. I wonder how much extra weight a bar adds? I forgot about that.

By the way, nice '66.

Kelco's in Indy did mine. I'll shoot you a pic tonite.

IRP requires one if you run 11.99 ( NHRA)

Muncie doesn't. I've run 11.50's there and they didn't say a word.

NHRA is 11.99, I hear IHRA is 11.50 (11.49?). Swing out bars are fine. You need at least a 5 point bar with a side bar on the drivers side. A bar has to be 1.75" OD. It can be mild steel (min.118" wall but .135" is actually required). Or chrome moly (.083" wall).

Here is a link tech faq (http://www.nhra.com/contacts/tech_faq.html)

I just heard last Saturday that NHRA changed to match the IHRA standard of 11.49, so now supposedly they are both requiring roll bars when running 11.49 or faster.

The rule change is supposed to be because of all the new fast cars coming out of the factory (ie: Vette's, Mustangs, 4th gen Camaros, etc) that are running high 11 with few mods.

Can anyone confirm this?

i just had a chrome moly bar put in my 67. the only oversight i missed was failure to remove the supply lines to the air bags and they were melted. if theres any thing under the car near the welding points protect or remove till after the job is done. my main hoop was 14.2 lbs. the bars into the trunk were 16 lbs total. the rear seat brace was 3 lbs. did not weight the swing out door bars but would guess 5 lbs each. the hole deal was a little under 50 lbs. Dave

Originally posted by Eric68:
I just heard last Saturday that NHRA changed to match the IHRA standard of 11.49.

The rule change is supposed to be because of all the new fast cars coming out of the factory (ie: Vette's, Mustangs, 4th gen Camaros, etc) that are running high 11 with few mods.

Can anyone confirm this? I read that too, but the article I read seemed to indicate that this was only for certain classes of racing and not across the board. It wasn't as clearly worded as I would have liked. It didn't seem to apply to older cars that were not built with the same government safety requirements as newer cars.

sheetmetal,
Fifty pounds? Is that all? No problem, I'll just lose fifty myself and even it out! I'll be down to a willowy 130lbs!...or maybe I'll die of starvation.

Originally posted by Eric68:
I just heard last Saturday that NHRA changed to match the IHRA standard of 11.49, so now supposedly they are both requiring roll bars when running 11.49 or faster.

The rule change is supposed to be because of all the new fast cars coming out of the factory (ie: Vette's, Mustangs, 4th gen Camaros, etc) that are running high 11 with few mods.

Can anyone confirm this? I hope it true, haven't heard anything though.

I haven't seen anything in ND. Maybe that is for the new Pure Street class, newer car with no mods.

The weight you add will probably increase performance from stiffening the chassis. I will probably need a rollbar with my new motor also,gonna get a 10.99 timeslip if I have to spray it smile.gif

I would LOVE it if they changed this rule, My 96' Thunderbird V6 will be into the 11's next year or so I hope, and its my daily driver and would hate to have to put a bar in it. It currently runs 13.5 @ 101 , not bad for a 3880 lb. car with a 3.8L under the hood (building a 4.2L forged stroker V6 and upping the boost from 8psi to 14psi). The 70' Malibu is going to be my wife's daily driver in the summer and with a fuel injected 383 under the hood that might get close to the 11 second range also.

My stock '02 C5 convert ran 13.4x and I've gotten grief from the track techs for not having a roll bar. :rolleyes:

convertable being the reason.....thats 13.99 roll bar territory

Originally posted by bigjimzlll:
convertable being the reason.....thats 13.99 roll bar territory Obviously. ;)
I was commenting to further enhance Eric's statement above regarding the faster factory cars...
"The rule change is supposed to be because of all the new fast cars coming out of the factory (ie: Vette's, Mustangs, 4th gen Camaros, etc) that are running high 11 with few mods."

pardon my ignorance.....im just not real quick sometimes...didn't realize everyone new that.

Originally posted by Eric68:
I just heard last Saturday that NHRA changed to match the IHRA standard of 11.49, so now supposedly they are both requiring roll bars when running 11.49 or faster. Can anyone confirm this? I E-mailed NHRA last week to confirm what I was told by a local bracket racer that they were to change the rule to 11.49.
They never responded, but I do hope it`s true because I can play somemore with BigRed without cutting up a rare factory muscle car smile.gif

As I suspected, it appears that this "new 11.49 rule" is only for newer cars in factory stock type classes.

Here is the long version for those of you who care to read it, as pulled from the Stangcrazy web site:


Mark Keiser
Pure Stock, pure fun
NHRA's new E.T. racing class for newer, unmodified vehicles takes manufacturer safety engineering into account in rules

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
6/22/2004
At NHRA's annual member track meetings last winter, one item discussed with track operators was the modernization of certain rules as they apply to street-legal cars that compete at NHRA member track street-legal events. The key question: "Why should E.T. bracket rules and regulations have to apply to newer, faster, yet safer pure-stock-type street-legal vehicles running at test-n-tune or street-legal events?"

The answer: NHRA believes the time has come, since the street-legal category is one of the fastest growing categories running weekly at NHRA member tracks throughout North America, to reevaluate and better define existing rules and regulations to match the improving levels of safety and performance in today's production vehicles.
NHRA's new Pure Stock class is for street-legal vehicles that run 11.50 seconds or slower. Pure Stock Street Legal rules are specifically intended for street-legal vehicles that are production stock, as manufactured and sold by the original automobile manufacturer.

Currently, all street-legal vehicles are governed by the same rules and regulations as those in the NHRA Summit Racing Series section of the NHRA Rulebook. While the E.T. rules can and do apply to street-legal cars that have been modified with certain performance enhancements, such rules may not necessarily fit today's OEM high-performance vehicles as produced by auto manufacturers.

"In looking at the types of vehicles being produced today by OEM manufacturers, it is apparent that high-performance vehicles are once again popular with buyers," explained Len Imbrogno, NHRA's director of Sportsman racing and member tracks. "Along with the increasing horsepower levels of today's performance vehicles comes a much higher level of engineering in structural design and safety features incorporated into the vehicles by the auto industry. It is therefore possible for us to now consider separate rules for pure-stock vehicles."

To that point, with input from NHRA member tracks, NHRA has finalized a set of rules for street-legal events that apply to any car considered to be purely stock and street legal. The new Pure Stock Street Legal rules and regulations can be integrated into existing street-legal categories by member tracks or run as a separate class. The new rules, however, apply only to stock OEM-type production vehicles. Once any power adder or performance hardware is used, it then must follow the existing Summit E.T. safety requirements. Otherwise, any pure-stock, street-legal car running 11.50 or slower (example: stock Dodge Viper) would be governed by the proposed new Pure Stock Street Legal rules, providing the vehicle remains completely OEM stock.

As an example, under existing Summit E.T. rules, a convertible running 13.99 and quicker must have a driveshaft loop and roll bar. Under the new rules, a pure-stock street-legal car will not require this equipment unless it runs 11.49 or quicker.
Vehicles must meet all state-highway safety requirements for the state in which the vehicle is registered, must be street driven, display valid license plates (or temporary permits), and have proof of vehicle registration and valid insurance.

"With a growing emphasis by local law-enforcement agencies to reduce street racing, NHRA's street-legal program has been an effective tool in the fight against illegal street racing," explained NHRA President Tom Compton. "Not only has the NHRA street-legal program helped in the fight against illegal street racing, but at the grassroots level, it also allows anyone wishing to participate in NHRA Drag Racing the opportunity to do so.

"The new Pure Stock Street Legal rules are a very important element for all NHRA member tracks to help grow their street-legal programs and another example of how we will continue to listen to input from our member tracks and react to their needs."

Within the framework of the street-legal category, the following technical rules and regulations will apply for Pure Stock Street Legal vehicles that run 11.50 or slower. Pure Stock Street Legal rules are specifically intended for street-legal vehicles that are production stock, as manufactured and sold by the original automobile manufacturer. For street-legal cars other than Pure Stock, tech rules and regulations are the same as those in the NHRA Summit Racing Series E.T. vehicle section of the NHRA Rulebook. Once any power adders or performance hardware are added to a Pure Stock Street Legal vehicle, it is then also classified as an E.T. vehicle

At street-legal events, only legitimate street-legal machines are permitted to participate. Though competition structure varies from track to track, the emphasis is on fun. A common street-legal venue will feature time trials and grudge racing only, which ensures each participant the opportunity for a maximum number of passes down the dragstrip. Grudge racing permits participants to choose their competition rather than participate in an organized eliminator. Once eliminated, a participant may return to the staging lanes for more time trials or grudge runs. Being eliminated at a street-legal event does not necessarily mean it's time to go home.

Thanks for posting that TH! and thanks for the compliment.