Chevy High Performance Magazine did a 'hot start' remote Ford solenoid install article here: http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/148_0312_chevrolet_no_start_fix/index.html

Where can I find this jumper bar perhaps OTC at a local chain parts store?

http://images.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/148_0312_hot_09_z.jpg

I made my jumper out of two appropriately sized ring terminals with a piece solid copper (i.e. house hold) wiring crimped and soldered. About 1 to 1.5 inches of copper wire should do. Then put a bend in it to get the rings to line up with the starter terminals. Stranded wire will work, but solid wire will look neat and clean.

From the CHP article:

This happens because the large solenoid on the starter pulls 40 to 50 amps at the moment the ignition key is turned to the Start position. That large amount of power must flow through a long circuit from the battery to the dash area, back through the underhood wiring, and finally to the starter. Sounds like quite a job, doesn't it?

This isn't at all true. A solenoid is an inductor and will have a large AC resistance at the moment the circuit is completed. I don't think that the CHP guys are electricians.

I always thought that the point was that the Ford remote solenoid pulled less amps than the GM. Further, the GM solenoid not only makes the electrical connection, it also has to mechanically pull in the Bendix. This fact remains with the remote solenoid conversion, but the current for that comes straight from the large battery cable (i.e short length, low resistance) and not the long dash harness wire. Finally, being near the exhaust, the GM solenoid can heat soak while the remote solenoid can be placed away from the header heat.

No matter what kind of remote current switching device you use, the original GM solenoid remains in place and operational. It still gets hot and it still has to fully deploy in order to switch the starter current. Many guys believe that you are actually replacing the GM solenoid with the remote device. Basically you are supplying the solenoid with full battery voltage, which can be accomplished in a couple of ways.

Some like me think the hot soak thing is a myth masking other issues.

What happens when this heat soak of the solenoid (or name the part) happens?
Two devices doing about the same thing should draw about the same current.

There's a thread about 2 years long on chevelles.com I think about this.

My point or opinion is that, get the grounds right, good solenoid, starter, and a good 12V source, and I bet the heat soak problem disappears.

Check it yourself if you have the problem by directly connecting the battery to the S terminal via a long wire with alligator clips.

The Ford relay draws quite a bit less current as it does less work.

Non electrical reasons to do the conversion:

Easy place to bump the starter when running valves.

To drop the starter, unhook the wiring from the Ford solenoid rather than fight the wires on the GM solenoid. This works better the closer the Ford solenoid is to the starter. (Mine is on the firewall under the heater core.)

It's cool.

Where can I find this jumper bar perhaps OTC at a local chain parts store?

Check this out:

http://www.madelectrical.com/catalog/st-1.shtml

If you are using a high torque mini (perm magnet), you can't use this jumper!


This is how I wired my high torque mini with a Ford remote solenoid:

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169390&highlight=ford


There are 2 conditions that cause heat soak. The first is a no crank, this happens when not enough voltage/current is supplied to the GM solenoid. A ford remote will solve this since is draws much less current.

The 2nd is a slow crank, usually caused by a weak starter, bad ground, corroded cables, etc. A remote solenoid will not solve this.

This is the type of problem, which will be cured with installation of the START'M UP kit. The problem occurs because the large solenoid on the GM starter draws 40 to 50 amps at the moment the key is turned to "START."

Where does he get this stuff?

I understand why the starter has RUN_ON...but why do they use a permanent magnet.....and do ALL mini starters have a permanent magnet? It says the FORD starters have this problem, so if I have a GM style Powermaster mini XS starter, would it still have the same issues? This may be unrelated, but why would I care if the starter ran on for a few seconds if it isn't damaging anything other than being annoyed?

A permanent magnet motor is smaller and lighter, thus the concept of a "mini" starter.

Starter run-on will only be temporarily distracting until it the starter fails. If the gears are meshed and the over-running clutch fails, you can expect some parts to fly. The positive benefit of this is that you only have to remove one wire every time you replace your broken starter.

This is what I've gathered about the Ford remote 'solenoid':

First of all, it is not technically a "solenoid", it's a relay. It is switching on current to both the Chevy starter and its 'real' solenoid. Solenoids use electricity to create movement within the unit. So the Chevy solenoid moves something; the bendix. I think as you move up into higher current or industrial situations, the term solenoid gets used more often or interchangably.
I don't think hot soak is a myth at all. On a 40-year-old car you have thin wires and questionable insulation. The starter circuit is keyed-power and it a long one. Now to these factors add concentrated heat to the starter area. It's the "S" terminal wire's resistence that's the culprit.
It doesn't matter how much current the Ford 'relay' draws because it is not performing work at the starter. It is just switching power flow to the starter cable.
The starter cable is a huge pipeline of power. Jump it to that Chevy solenoid (OEM non-permanent magnet style) and it's going to fully engage no matter what.
Ron Francis Wireworks has a relay-based solution here http://www.streetrodstuff.com/Products/1241/ but it doesn't address the live OEM Chevy cable from the battery to the starter motor.
Here's a Nova enthusiast's wiring version using hi-torque perm. magnets and relays http://novaresource.org/starter.htm but I don't understand how he has input & output cables on the same Ford solenoid terminal???
The purpose of the remote solenoid includes the fact that the cable to the starter motor is now dead unless the car is cranking over. This is a huge safety thing IMHO and, as previously mentioned by zeke67, has a R&R convenience factor, too.
Taylor Vertex makes a remote kit that has the bump starter button built into the 'solenoid' but they only offer a 3 terminal solenoid; I need 4 terminals since I am still running points (working on fixin' that) as of today, right now http://www.taylorvertex.com/Products/pdfs/taylorcatalog38.pdf
The heat soaking via headers bakes all of the wires attached to the stock Chevy solenoid, and of course one of these wires is the small serperate bendix plunger wire. Using the jumper as well as 1-gauge or better SGX starter cable reduces resistence and should solve heat-related resistence issues. Cross-linked SGX is rated to 257F or 125C and is oil-resistant. Here's some commentary http://www.custombatterycables.com/wire_types.htmMy mock-up has the Ford unit mounting to the frame below the battery. Using a side terminal battery works nicely. No problem working with stiffer, insulated cable since it sweeps from the solenoid to the starter to a 90-degree lug. Ground cable from Ford unit to engine block, block to battery.

So is this jumper available? Well, come to think of it, maybe - just maybe - wiring for a future hi-torque starter will cover both bases utilizing the Nova site's examples, but first verifying the battery cable wiring because to me it looks as if it leaves both starter cables hot all of the time :sad:. I also noticed how the points coils wire gets put back on the Chevy solenoid. OH OH. If this is correct wiring for a P.M. starter, the safety and convenience factors are negated.
http://novaresource.org/images/solenoid01.gifhttp://novaresource.org/images/solenoid02.gifhttp://novaresource.org/images/solenoid03.gif

Credit novaresource.com/.org: Stock Starter, Stock Starter w/ Remote, Permanent Magnet Starter w/ Remote

FWIW: Here is a very reasonably priced, modern starter that will work with points: http://www.db-starter-alternator.com/Items/pm300%20-%206562?&caSKU=pm300%20-%206562&caTitle=NEW%20Chevy%20305%20350%20454%20Mini%20Rac ing%20PMGR%20Starter%20HT%20PM300

Does the MAD kit include these various wiring options in their kit booklet? I think they have the best pre-packaged Chevy Hot Soak solution on the market, but I can't get them to answer the phone to place an order!

I also purchased a DB pm300 mini...it works great, and a good value. My solenoid is wired similar to the 3rd example (right most example) except my battery cable runs to the starter first, then the solenoid that is mounted beneath the "wire gutter." The wire therefore is NOT dead, but that is OK with me.

I think way too much is made of the "dead" wire going from the relay to the starter. There are millions of cars with live starter wires and you don't see fires caused by the wire shorting out. BMW has many models with the battery in the trunk and they run a live wire to the starter. Corvette has them in the passenger compartment.
The same guy who will feel safer with the dead wire will have 20' of pressurized fuel line running in the same general area. I would venture to say the fuel will leak out long before the cable will short out.
The Nova schematic on the right is how I would do it. The real need is to supply the GM solenoid with full battery voltage, you don't need to switch the starter current through two sets of contacts.
The real effect of 'heat soak' is to raise the resistance of the solenoid. There is far more wire wound inside the solenoid than all the external circuitry combined, and it is far more affected by the heat.

This is the type of problem, which will be cured with installation of the START'M UP kit. The problem occurs because the large solenoid on the GM starter draws 40 to 50 amps at the moment the key is turned to "START."

Where does he get this stuff?

The data I have found said the GM was somewhere around 30A and the Ford took somewhere around 8A to energize.

Sure, it is a coil or inductor but it's got an air gap in the magnetic circuit until it closes and that air gap causes it to draw a lot more current until it closes.

There are also actually 2 coils inside the GM solenoid and the one uses the starter terminal or starter motor as a ground so it gets 12V on each side once the solenoid pulls in which essentially removes it from the circuit. This second coil is the one that causes the solenoid to draw the high current compared to the Ford unit. It is there to get a higher pull-in force and then has power removed from it because the smaller coil can hold it energized.

Peter

http://www.classicalpontiac.com/restoration/hand/circuit.JPG

It looks like this.

Onovakind,,,,,,,, the reason for the "dead" battery cable is because the "20" ft pressurized gas line is there,, especially in racing with electric fuel pumps. LJ