I just picked up a 64 El Camino that looks very original. Can anybody tell me if this Elco is numbers matching? Engine numbers are Casting number 38498852 Pad# F0507 J date code is. E 8 4 Intake is still a stock 2 barrel Date code D 20 4 casting number 3840805 with a GM19 on it. Carb looks original with the screw in pcv valve that goes to the back of the engine behind the distributor. Trans is three on the tree with all the original linkage and levers. I'm thinking I have a original numbers matching elco? The only things the former owner did was put 2 inch lower springs and shocks and 16 inch rally wheels on it which are easily replaced.

Here is the vin#
45680K186480


Body plate reads:

058

Style 64-5680 K EP 7531 Body
Trim 750 919 paint
W
50

It would appear so.... check the pad ID to see for sure:
http://www.nastyz28.com/chevy-engine-code-stampings.php

Can anybody tell me if this Elco is numbers matching?

No, it is not...

"Matching Numbers" would indicate that the "VIN" derivative stamped on the block MATCHED the VIN of the car... The draw/desirability of the term "Matching Numbers" is a way to prove that the engine is original to the car. Without that stamped VIN derivative, there's no way to prove Matching Numbers... Of course, if the "stampings" are original, then the casting numbers and dates will correspond too...


Pretty sure these early small block Chevelles/El Caminos (non-L79 versions) did NOT have the VIN stamped on the engine block... Therefore no way to determine if its the original engine.

"Correct" components would be the correct casting numbers and dates for you year and model...


So while the motor could be original to the car, it could also be a "replacement" from another 64 Chevelle/El Camino...

I also posted this in the restoration section. You may want to check it out. You are correct as in the early years not having the partial vin stamped on the engine however when you read the findings in the restoration section you'll see it doesn't get any closer that this. I guess us older chevelle or elco owners have to settle with correct components or something like that. Thanks for the replies. RD

...however when you read the findings in the restoration section you'll see it doesn't get any closer that this. I guess us older chevelle or elco owners have to settle with correct components or something like that. Thanks for the replies. RD

Its not about being "close", its about the components preceding the car's build date within a reasonable time frame...


Actually (a quote from from the resto section post):
There are no numbers to positively link it to the car itself such as a partial VIN stamped on the block like in later years. Correctness depends on when the car was built. Block is a std 283 195/220 unit built at Flint and dated May 7 and 'J' suffix code is correct for a 283-2bbl w/3-speed. If the body date and VIN sequence puts it in the mid-late May, early June time frame then it probably is since suffix code is correct.

If the body date and VIN are before May 7 (actually May 8 since that's the date on the intake) then it can't be the original engine.

Trim Tag Date: 05B, Second Week of May... could be Mid-May...

Along the same lines, IF the engine was assembled AFTER May 8th (per the intake casting date), how long before the intake would be machined, the engine assembled and then shipped tot he Kansas City assembly plant (from the Flint Michigan engine assembly plant)? Then, once at the Kansas City assembly plant, wouldn't there likely be other engines (with same suffix) already in the que, waiting for a car to go into? First engine in, first out in a new car? And with the common, standard 283, how many units do you think the plant has on hand to avoid shortages?

Could very well be the original engine, could even be considered "correct" by some. There might also have been discrepancies in the dates. I'd be a little skeptical because the dates are so close together... If the seller pushed the "original engine" factor, then I'd question it more...

Finally, regardless of it being "correct", its not really "matching numbers", as far as the term is usually used (meaning there is only one "matching numbers" engine for each car)... For yours, there could be hundreds (thousands?) of "correct" engines...

Matching Numbers = it IS the original engine (unless it was fraudulently restamped)

"Correct" = it COULD be the original engine, or just a close replacement...



My comments were not that it wasn't "correct" or original" just that is wasn't "matching numbers"... After reading the "resto forum" post, I think it might be "correct" or original... but hard to say

I meant no offense to you Steve, just that so many of these terms get modified or morphed over the years by people that just don't know the meanings, and then it snowballs. I assumed that since you asked about an early Chevelle (with no VIN stamping on the block), that maybe you misunderstood the meaning of "matching numbers"...

Lots of people call stuff "Matching Numbers", "date correct", "correct", "musclecar", "rare" etc, when their cars/parts are nowhere near fitting these descriptions... Often its just because people honestly don't know, or they heard something or misinterpretted someone else, most of them, probably unintentional (there are the unscrupulous sellers that will use these terms to dupe the unknowing into overpaying for something)... Its just a pet peeve, but I try to help everyone understand... I like to share my knowledge of 25+ years in theis hobby, and I like it when others share their knowledge and views... I learn something new everyday on this site...

Tony, I take no offense and understand you point as to using the correct terms and understand that this Elco can only be cosidered date correct since the earlier cars don't have the partial vin stamped on the engine boss. The seller never mentioned anything about the car being numbers matching or date correct just that it was a nice original driver type 64 El Camino. That being said, I was suprised to find this car so date correct or close to it. In fact I have never been all that in to all the correct numbers matching thing anyway and care more about weather the car is rust free and presents itself well and of course is just flat out fun to drive. For what I paid for it I feel I got a nice driver and if it is date correct it's even better. The thing that I never liked about the whole numbers matching thing is that theres always someone with a different opinion on whether it's correct or not and as I said I'm just happy with having a decent Elco to enjoy. I thought it would be just nice to know if it could be a date correct car since it looks so original. Have a goodin, Steve

Have fun with your Camino................ when someone asks you if its "numbers matching" just say its close enough :) and ask what they're driving.......

Thats the plan

Thanks

Since it wasn't drag raced, it is probably numbers matching. Enjoy your Elky. :thumbsup: