Just wanting to get some input on the Performer heads, and what you guys think the gains would be over the 049s. This will be in a '73 Blazer 4x4. It's my buddy's truck, and he wants to be fast as well as maintain some offroad ability. Here's the rig right now:
454 bored/stroked to 481
Estimated CR is 9.1:1
049 heads with 2.19/1.88 valves (no porting or other work)
Crane hydroller 214/222 @ .050 and .556/.576 lift
Thorley headers
4.56 rear gears with 37" tires, TH400.

Any good/bad experience with the Edelbrock aluminum oval ports and what gains (if any) we can expect to see over the 049s? Thanks for any insight!

jmo.......dont waste the money on them......the 049 are pretty darn good stock heads you would be money ahead just to remove them and do some port work on them........just a general clean up and a good three angle valve job......

alum heads imo are only good for one thing at this performance level and thats weight reduction to your wallet.... you will loose some power going to alum heads because of the heat loss. you would have to bump the compression up about 1 point to get that back from what you have now.

clean up the 049's in the ports and do the 3 angle valve job and you got about the best heads one could have.....

049's lightly touched as Dennis mentioned will flow the same if not more than the Edelbrock heads..he's all ready ahead of the game with the 2.19/1.88 valves.

Wyatt,

What RPM does he get out of that cam?

Which EDE's?
I have an engine on the dyno with the 290cc intake "rovals" & these heads flow reasonbly well for what they are.
They are about the same as a very well ported set of 781 style heads.
They are nothing to get excited about but are a pretty fair out of the box upgrade to a stock set of GM oval heads & are not bad for the market they were intended for.
You would need to to a very good job on a set of 781's to get them to flow what these did.

As for the point of compression deal,, you could argue this all day & while I agree a cast head in theroy at least should make more power this has to my knowledge never been shown to be the case in the real world.
Closest I have personaly done is with Dart 200cc small blocks which are supposed to be pretty close to the same & in back to back testing on a 9.5 to 1 mild 383 with no other changes I honestly couldn't measure any difference in power.
Ended up raising the compression on the aluminum ones by 1 point & it picked up about 3% in power across the torque curve as would be expected.

Mike: What would you improve on the 290 cc Edelbrocks? I remember looking at them when I got mine and Edelbrock did a pretty good job of blending the valve pockets and the ports were smooth. Is it just a case of raising the roof and work on the short turn radius and streamline the guides, or do you see other areas that could be improved?

My results (454) was going from 882's with slight cleanup and a 219/229 hydraulic cam to the Edelbrocks & 224/229 hydraulic roller. Before =328 rwhp, after 393 rwh, a gain of 65 rwhp.
/Markus

Originally posted by zwede:
Mike: What would you improve on the 290 cc Edelbrocks? I remember looking at them when I got mine and Edelbrock did a pretty good job of blending the valve pockets and the ports were smooth. Is it just a case of raising the roof and work on the short turn radius and streamline the guides, or do you see other areas that could be improved?

My results (454) was going from 882's with slight cleanup and a 219/229 hydraulic cam to the Edelbrocks & 224/229 hydraulic roller. Before =328 rwhp, after 393 rwh, a gain of 65 rwhp.
/Markus Markus,
Are 882 closed chamber or open? Reason I ask is the rovals I did were a "semi open" 110cc

I am not a head porter,, just don't have the time :(
And to be honest I took them out of the box & stuck them on the bench as this is supposed to be a deal for one of the magazines so it was kind of a freebie where all the parts were supplied.

This would be a much better question to ask someone like Mike Stark as it is what he does all day.
Post it over here & see if you can't get a better answer than I could give you:
Mike Stark (http://mikestarkcfm.proboards21.com/index.cgi)

or give him or your favorite head porter a call.
You might ask you friendly neighbor too,, a relatively unknown guy named Darin Morgan,, I heard he knows a little about cylinder heads :D

BTW, your numbers follow what I got on the dyno with about the same cam (the ede torker) 480 & 550 but this was a 489 ;)

Mike,

Can you share what the flownumbers were for the rovals or is that for the magazine only? CHP flowed them a few years ago and I think the intakes maxed out just over 300 CFM.

My old heads were open chamber, 113cc, with the small valves.

/Markus

Here's the whole deal again,,
Pretty simple basic bolt together deal, 489, Ede 60459 roval heads, Ede 5062 cam .527/.553, 224/232, 114 lsa, 109 icl. I believe it's called the Torker Plus, RPM intake, 1413 800cfm Ede carb, Probe rotating assembly.
(remember, I didn't supply the parts :D )
Carb was great at part throttle like hi 13's, low 14's & pig rich under power like 10.5 - 11.4 (AFR)
Timing was 36 degrees, 10.8 compression
numbers were:
2800 - 267 - 501
3000 - 306 - 519
3500 - 359 - 538
4000 - 427 - 547
4500 - 460 - 538
5000 - 480 - 514
5500 - 478 - 456

The compression was higher than planned but the parts were as supplied & I just supplied the machine work & dyno time along with profiling the cam & flowing the heads etc.
Cam was advertised as 302/304 but measured a surprising 285/288 at .006. The rest of the numbers were right on.

Heads were 315 on the good "port" & 307 on the "bad" port. Heres the 'bad" port, I don't have the "good" one in front of me.
050 - 38/ 31
.100 - 74/ 64
.200 - 146/119
.300 - 218/150
.400 - 260/179
.500 - 291/207
.600 - 307/229
.700 - 302/245

The sick part was using an original 512, H29 date coded 4 bolt 427 block for this graemlins/sad.gif

Thanks Mike. Not bad for a low cost out of box head. Surprised you got that much power from the torker cam. That thing is ancient.

I posted over at Creative flow.

Thanks,
Markus

What's the chance on them trying
Edelbrocks new RPM hyd. roller too ?

Thanks guys for all the replies. Forgot to mention this, but the 049s apparently had bowls blended and pocket porting. I think the thing runs incredible as it is, but my buddy's getting greedy for more power!

GRN69CHV, I can't tell you what RPMs he's getting out of the Crane, as the engine is at the shop right now to have it installed (thus his question of whether to swap heads while it's out). The cam that's being replaced is, I think, an Isky hydraulic flat tappet 230/230 with around .520 lift, but that's a ballpark figure for lift. With that cam, he hit a wall at around 5500 rpm.

Mike, my buddy wants to keep the CR where it is now, thus the consideration of the Edels with 110cc combustion chamber (290 intake). Any suggestions on some heads that would keep it close to this CR and make a noticeable difference in power? What are the Racerites, 115cc? Would that 5cc make a big difference in CR, and if so, would the better flow outweigh the loss of compression? He's not sure what head gaskets were used on the engine originally, so he might be able to go with a thinner gasket and help reduce the loss of compression. He also wants to maintain low end power. Btw, he's got an Edelbrock 850 carb on it. Any other suggestions on heads are appreciated! Thanks again guys!

Originally posted by wyatt:
Thanks guys for all the replies. Forgot to mention this, but the 049s apparently had bowls blended and pocket porting. I think the thing runs incredible as it is, but my buddy's getting greedy for more power!

GRN69CHV, I can't tell you what RPMs he's getting out of the Crane, as the engine is at the shop right now to have it installed (thus his question of whether to swap heads while it's out). The cam that's being replaced is, I think, an Isky hydraulic flat tappet 230/230 with around .520 lift, but that's a ballpark figure for lift. With that cam, he hit a wall at around 5500 rpm.

Mike, my buddy wants to keep the CR where it is now, thus the consideration of the Edels with 110cc combustion chamber (290 intake). Any suggestions on some heads that would keep it close to this CR and make a noticeable difference in power? What are the Racerites, 115cc? Would that 5cc make a big difference in CR, and if so, would the better flow outweigh the loss of compression? He's not sure what head gaskets were used on the engine originally, so he might be able to go with a thinner gasket and help reduce the loss of compression. He also wants to maintain low end power. Btw, he's got an Edelbrock 850 carb on it. Any other suggestions on heads are appreciated! Thanks again guys! =
If he is into buying the RaceRites I would give up the compression in a heartbeat for the flow & efficiency of this head.

They will go hi 340's to low 350's in a usable range with the CNC chamber & have a smaller intake port (270cc) too,, all good things.
They also have a 110cc version for a bit more money

If he is interested in the Brodix heads, email me as I have pretty good pricing on them ;)

702s with a little work and flat pistons will give you somewhere between 100 and 110cc and a CR of 9.5 to 10. They will also flow very well with little work. You need the bigger valves. I like the 049s.

882s are SBC with 76 chambers but that's all I know.

Mike, thanks for the info. Do you think there's a better choice (ovals) than the Brodix heads?

jobberone, he doesn't want to have to swap out the pistons or shave anything off.

882s are SBC with 76 chambers but that's all I know. [/QB]I must be remembering the numbers wrong. My old heads were Corvette LS-5 heads (1971).

Originally posted by wyatt:
Mike, thanks for the info. Do you think there's a better choice (ovals) than the Brodix heads?

jobberone, he doesn't want to have to swap out the pistons or shave anything off. =
I don't think there is anything right now that compares for a direct bolt on head with stock exhaust locations.
I would say the AFR's if Tony would ever get them done but they are still probably a year away :(
And that is the same answer I gave about a year ago so,,,, I wouldn't hold my breath on the AFR's in the near future.
When they get done they will be killer though judging from the rect port ones.
BTW, the AFR's have the exhaust port raised .375", not a big deal but I don't want to confuse anyone :D

I would have to think with that short of a cam in a 481 stroker, the powerband will be off idle to about 4000 and fall off real fast from there regardless of the heads. Stock 454's used similiar timing and made peak (advertised) HP at aout 4600. If I have this right, the powerband moves down about 500RPM for every .250" increase in stroke. Personally doubt he will take advantage of anything other than a production/mild-modifed head with that RPM range.

One good thing, it ought to pull like a tractor!

Mike, thanks again for the info. I'll shoot you an email if he decides to try out the Racerites.

jay, sorry I missed your post earlier. He just got a new Crane roller that's being installed, so he probably won't be trying a new cam for a while.

GRN69CHV, thanks for the info there. The 481 had a pretty rough idle before, and he wanted it smoothed out a little for driving around town and offroading. Thus the lower duration on the roller.

If he decides to go with something besides the 049s, I'll let you guys know the results. Thanks again for all the help!

11.10 at 123.2 with barely 10.0 compression. race rites rock!!!!!

I ran 10.90 @ 123 with the Edelbrock Rovals at 9:1 CR using UDHarolds 288/296 F10 grind, a 950 Holley HP Vac Sec carb on a Dart oval intake.
3500lb Nova.
The Edel heads aint that bad. Flow as good as the Rect port Chev head.
I buy my gas from Texaco.
At $1600, when I bought mine, they were a deal, and one of the first affordable Alum heads to be had.
Now there are many.
For a short time, Edel offered a Chapman ported version, but they didn't seem to last long on the market.
My 37 cents worth.
Ron

mr68, what are the specs on the rest of your setup?

Ron, that's a very impressive number. Are you still running that setup?

Hey Wyatt,

I took that setup all apart to do a more serious 496.
Sold the heads and port matched Dart intake to a buddy who bugged and bugged me to sell him the stuff......then he turned around and sold it to another friend at a profit.
Nice huh?
I plan on humiliating him at the strip this year....and he can bring all the nitrous he can afford..........

wyatt, 454 .030 over, 10. compression, ultradyne 288/296 solid, ported victor jr, 950 hp, ms6 dist, +6al, 2in headers, 4.56 gear, 4 speed trans(.279 1st gear). block is 0 decked.

mr68, what was your vehicle weight? nice times!

3700 lbs with driver.