I know it is not a Chevelle, but being that it is an A-body, I thought many of you might be interested. As many of you know and many don't, my 1970 GTO was done in October of 2002.

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/features/0304phr_1970_pontiac_gto/index.html

Since then it has lived a rather quiet life. Mostly in storage. Due to some issues in my personal life and a lack of interest, the GTO was a bit neglected over the last 4-5 years. Well that changed this past weekend. I finally sold my fuel injected 502 big block. The engine will have a happy home in a Chevelle.

Stay tuned for more details and future upgrades and pictures.

Andrew

Glad to see you back Andrew. Chevelle or not I'm sure your welcome here. I for one will be looking forword to seeing what you have in store for the next generation of your 70 GTO. Lots of new stuff since 2002 :D.

welcome Andrew.

Jody

Here are some pictures of the big block 502 extraction.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/IMG_0165_web.jpg

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/IMG_0166_web.jpg

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/IMG_0168_web.jpg

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/IMG_0169_web.jpg

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/IMG_0170_web.jpg

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/IMG_0171_web.jpg

Andrew

what's going in it's place.....................????????? ;)

Jody

what's going in it's place.....................????????? ;)

Jody

Some sort of LSx engine. I haven't figured out the exact details. Nothing crazy though.

Andrew

Some sort of LSx engine. I haven't figured out the exact details. Nothing crazy though.

Andrew

415" LS3/L92 based motor could be done rather economically and turn over 500rwhp. I am interested in this build up and enjoyed watching your first build.

What kind of gas mileage did you get on your efi 502? and what gears did you have?

415" LS3/L92 based motor could be done rather economically and turn over 500rwhp. I am interested in this build up and enjoyed watching your first build.

What kind of gas mileage did you get on your efi 502? and what gears did you have?

Strokers are OK, but I am not a big fan of how far the pistons come out the bottom of the sleeves. Little scary if you ask me. My power goals are fairly conservative, with a target of 430-450rwhp. The more I play with cars, the more I like stock parts.

I got about 15 mpg with the 502 with 3.73 gears, 28 inch tall tires, and .68 overdrive. I expect to get 23-25 with the new combo.

Andrew

Welcome Andrew, Sweet look'in Goat. Let us know about your progress. I also Have an Impala SS. Mine's a 96 black cherry. I'll never part with it. It's a great car.

Strokers are OK, but I am not a big fan of how far the pistons come out the bottom of the sleeves. Little scary if you ask me. My power goals are fairly conservative, with a target of 430-450rwhp. The more I play with cars, the more I like stock parts.

I got about 15 mpg with the 502 with 3.73 gears, 28 inch tall tires, and .68 overdrive. I expect to get 23-25 with the new combo.

Andrew

Thanks for the info. I assume you still have the Ls1 Rx7?

GM LS3 6.2L crate engine (P/N 19201992) based on the corvette is like 435hp stock... With headers and maybe a cam you should have 450+ driveable HP... Put a T56 6 speed behind it and you'll get good mileage too.. at least double the 502....:D

Its always cool to see you working on the GTO Andrew!

(Deep down inside I still want to see a Poncho motor in there, but I get the LS thing...)


~Scotch~

Thanks for the info. I assume you still have the Ls1 Rx7?

The RX7 was dismantled and parted out to fund the latest rounds of upgrades to the GTO and to pay off some debt. I ran a best of 10.95 with it. Running 10s was my goal.

I'm keeping everything the same from the bellhousing back. The T56 requires extensive mods to the trans tunnel that I don't want to do. The Richmond is a nice trans.

Andrew

Today I dropped off the big block at its new home and picked up an L92 truck engine. The big ugly truck intake will need to go, as will the water pump and balancer. I also picked up a take out LS7 cam, LS7 valve springs with retainers from Jeff Schwartz. I will post pictures of the new engine tomorrow.

Andrew

Are you planning on keeping the shaker hood? Sorry to hear about the RX7.

Are you planning on keeping the shaker hood? Sorry to hear about the RX7.

The shaker will definitely stay. I am not sure if I will go with a single plane style intake, or if I am going to do something similar to what Year One did on the new Bandit cars. Don't shed a tear for the RX7. It gave its life so others can live.

Andrew

Might I suggest a better cam than the LS7. It is a fairly good upgrade, however when you consider the time and trouble of installing a cam there are certainly better options out there. The LS7 is limited in that it was designed to make power of course, but also to pass emissions. Thats why people are picking up 50+rwhp on C6 Z06's with a cam and headers. However, I do understand when the price is right it might seem worth it.

Might I suggest a better cam than the LS7. It is a fairly good upgrade, however when you consider the time and trouble of installing a cam there are certainly better options out there. The LS7 is limited in that it was designed to make power of course, but also to pass emissions. Thats why people are picking up 50+rwhp on C6 Z06's with a cam and headers. However, I do understand when the price is right it might seem worth it.

Andrew is no stranger to the LS world and while I agree with your post I understand his goal. The LS7 cam will have valve events very close to what the L92 heads will like and the stock valvetrain will go for thounsands of miles even if the car sees track time without an issue. If you have conservative goals there is an advantage to using OEM parts. If it were me I'd go bigger on the cam and swap out the springs every 30k miles or so.

Andrew is no stranger to the LS world and while I agree with your post I understand his goal. The LS7 cam will have valve events very close to what the L92 heads will like and the stock valvetrain will go for thounsands of miles even if the car sees track time without an issue. If you have conservative goals there is an advantage to using OEM parts. If it were me I'd go bigger on the cam and swap out the springs every 30k miles or so.

I think you said it very well. The LS7 cam will have a little less lift in the L92 due to the 1.7 rocker ratio as compared to the LS7s 1.8. Even with the reduced lift, the cam will "feel" bigger in the L92 because it is a smaller engine. I am looking for low valve train noise, durability, and a stockish idle. A smaller cam will also help keep the low end torque that will be beneficial in a heavy car. I have less than $200 invested in the LS7 cam and valve springs. If I am not happy, its no big loss, and I can stab a different cam in it. If nothing else this will be a great experiment. To my knowledge no one has installed an LS7 cam in a L92.

Andrew

When I got home this afternoon I found some Edelbrock goodies waiting for me. Here are the engine mount plates:

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo08.jpg

Judging by the engine cradle these mounting plates will put the bellhousing in very close proximity to where it was before. This is critical for me since I am not changing anything rear of the engine.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo07.jpg

The Edelbrock headers came with a complete gasket and bolt kit, but I am going to use the stock MLS exhaust gaskets and bolts. The stock gasket matches the headers well.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo06.jpg

The headers are gorgeous!!!

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo05.jpg

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo04.jpg

The L92s feature variable valve timing. Since I am going to swap cams I will need a non VVT front cover. The balancer will also be swapped over to a C6 Corvette unit.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo01.jpg

Shot down the intake port:

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo02.jpg

Andrew

Andrew,

I enjoyed watching the first build of the GTO. I really like the L92 engine, I am keeping an eye out for one for myself. Keep us posted.

The headers do look nice and I will be interested in what you do for the shaker hood. I would like to keep the cowl induction working on my 70 along with the flapper door. Bczee made a custom air intake to work with a LS6 intake. If Year One would sell copies of their Bandit setup you could prolly modify it to work in both of our applications.

Mast performance? was tuning the VVT system. If you have any thought of keeping it you may want to look for them on Ls1tech.

The headers do look nice and I will be interested in what you do for the shaker hood. I would like to keep the cowl induction working on my 70 along with the flapper door. Bczee made a custom air intake to work with a LS6 intake. If Year One would sell copies of their Bandit setup you could prolly modify it to work in both of our applications.

Mast performance? was tuning the VVT system. If you have any thought of keeping it you may want to look for them on Ls1tech.

When we did the engine mounting we kept it as close to stock so things like the air cleaner to hood seal would work. The Edelbrock intake for the carburatored LS series engines is located very similar to the location on a SBC or BBC, that should allow the use of cold air "flapper" door hoods.

Andrew: The same applies for you as well with the shaker, if you use a OEM style LS series intake then there will be quite a bit of fabrication required. Did you know Edelbrock also makes a throttle body for the OEM intake that will make is cable rather than Throttle By Wire.

Andrew: The same applies for you as well with the shaker, if you use a OEM style LS series intake then there will be quite a bit of fabrication required. Did you know Edelbrock also makes a throttle body for the OEM intake that will make is cable rather than Throttle By Wire.

The shaker would definitely be easier to retain by using a single plate style intake. I hesitate to do that because I do not want to loose torque. The L76 intake has nice long runners. Given my mild cam it will be a very well matched combination. I am leaning towards doing something similar to what Year One did on the Bandit cars.

Andrew

Parts are slowly starting to trickle in. I got the proper cam gear to use with the LS7 cam. I also got a take off C6 water pump.

For the sake of my sanity, I removed the lifter valley cover just to double check that this engine does not have Displacement on Demand. It does not.

http://www.pro-touring.com/%7Eandrewb/gtov2/photo09.jpg

Andrew

Andrew,

Welcome back to Chi-Town. Are you up here for good?

Dan

Andrew,

Welcome back to Chi-Town. Are you up here for good?

Dan

Dan,

I am actually still living in Bowling Green, KY, but I will be moving back to the Chicago area sometime this summer.

Received the Keisler aluminum bellhousing today. Nice piece.

http://www.pro-touring.com/%7Eandrewb/gtov2/photo10.jpg

Andrew

Deleted

Andrew,

I was wondering if you are going Hydraulic clutch? I ask because I am trying to determine what I am going to do. I have a LS3 engine with a TKO and have the similar LS bell housing going into a 69 Chevelle. I thought about going mech linkage and trying to fab some mounting provision for the ball stud. I know most will say why do that but from my personal exp. I never had anything against them with 4 speed cars in the past. I am sure you will be up and running way before me so please post a little blurb about that if you remember. BTW I dig your car:thumbsup:

Thanks,
Tom

Sorry, Double post

Andrew,

I was wondering if you are going Hydraulic clutch? I ask because I am trying to determine what I am going to do. I have a LS3 engine with a TKO and have the similar LS bell housing going into a 69 Chevelle. I thought about going mech linkage and trying to fab some mounting provision for the ball stud. I know most will say why do that but from my personal exp. I never had anything against them with 4 speed cars in the past. I am sure you will be up and running way before me so please post a little blurb about that if you remember. BTW I dig your car:thumbsup:

Thanks,
Tom

Tom,

Thanks for the compliment! The bellhousing that I am using is exactly the same as yours. If you look on the drivers side of the bellhousing, you will see a cast boss, similar to where the ball stud would mount in the block. On my bellhousing that boss is drilled and tapped. I am assuming Keisler made that provision so people can try to reuse the mechanical clutch linkage, although looking at pictures of your frame, it does not look like the z-bar mount on the frame matches up with the boss in the bellhousing. Using the stock linkage would also require a custom z-bar.

Personally I am going to switch over to a hydraulic setup. The plan is to use the MC bracket from ATS and a MC from a 4th gen f-body. The throwout bearing will be either from Quarter Master or Howe. Once I get my clutch I will have a good idea of how much throw I will need and see what bearing will work best. I will definitely be documenting that portion of the build.

Andrew

Andrew,

Thanks for the reply. It helped as I had not given the Z bar issue much thought. I may just have to follow your lead and others on the hydraulic set up. :beers:

Thanks,
Tom

Lots of goodies showed up today including the L76 intake manifold kit:

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo11.jpg

Andrew

Today I took off the truck balancer and the front cover. This is what the VVT system looks like:

http://www.pro-touring.com/%7Eandrewb/gtov2/photo12.jpg

The VVT cam use a single bolt to attach the cam gear and VVT mechanism:

http://www.pro-touring.com/%7Eandrewb/gtov2/photo13.jpg

The LS7 cam uses the typical 3 bolt style cam gear. You just have to make sure to get the correct gear with the right pattern of bumps for the cam sensor. I got mine as a handy little kit from Lingenfelter.

http://www.pro-touring.com/%7Eandrewb/gtov2/photo14.jpg

Once the cam was installed I bolted on an LS2 from cover along with a C6 water pump and balancer. With the exception of the hollow stem valves, and of course the LS7 cam, this is pretty much an LS3 now.

http://www.pro-touring.com/%7Eandrewb/gtov2/photo15.jpg

I also installed the AutoKraft oilpan. I really wanted to use an OEM style cast pan, but no one seems to agree what pan will work best. So I went with something that is proven to fit and retains the oil filter in the stock location.

http://www.pro-touring.com/%7Eandrewb/gtov2/photo16.jpg

Tomorrow I will be installing some Patriot Gold dual springs and doing some minor detailing.

Andrew

More progress over the weekend. I finished installing the Patriot Gold dual springs and hardened pushrods. I am pretty sure I went overkill on the springs, but I figure if I don't like this LS7 cam, I can just stab another one in it without having to worry about the springs.

Next I wanted to check the alignment of the Keisler bellhousing. I took the engine off the stand and placed the bellhousing against the block. Tick, tick, tick, tick...it was rocking back and forth. No good. I inspected it and it looks like someone dropped the bellhousing after it was machined. It put a slight dent on the corner and didn't allow the bellhousing to sit flat against the block. Little work with the file and it was good to go. This is a perfect example of why parts should be mocked up before installing them in the car. I may not have noticed this if I was on my back, under the car, trying to install it.

Next I wanted to check the alignment. I first measured the flatness. Very impressive, at .001".

Next I wanted to check the runout. I installed the dial indicator so it would ride on the inside of the bearing retainer register. This is what centers the transmission in the bellhousing. I set the indicator to zero.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo17.jpg

Rotated the engine 90 degrees. Still zero. Good.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo18.jpg

Rotated another 90 degrees. .005". Not bad.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo19.jpg

Rotated another 90 degrees. .004". Great.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo20.jpg

So the most the needle moved was .005". Divide that by 2 and you get total runout of .0025". Well under the recommended .005". Other than the minor issue with the bellhousing, I am pretty impressed.

Next it was time to see how the input shaft engages the pilot bearing. I am using a stock LS7 pilot bearing. I am happy with the engagement.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo21.jpg

Then I wanted to install the clutch so that I can take some measurements for getting the right hydraulic throw out bearing. Everyone should have a nice clutch alignment took. This one is from Quarter Master and is way better than a plastic one.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo22.jpg

There you have it, clutch and bellshousing installed. I am using a stock LS7 clutch on an LS2 flywheel. Heavy, but it will drive great. The distance from the clutch fingers to the outside of the bellhousing was 3.25". I will elaborate on why that's important later.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo23.jpg

I used some high temp "cast aluminum" paint to add a little detail to the valve covers.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo24.jpg

Time to start working on the car and get it ready for the engine. I want to redo some of the wiring as well as some of the fuel lines in the engine compartment.

Andrew

Today I got a few more pieces of the puzzle. I was exploring the Keisler website and I looked in the "clutch actuation" section. Their hydraulic kit seemed like exactly what I was looking for. I only got the partial kit that does not include the hydraulic throwout bearing. Keisler is in the market of selling Tremec transmissions, so the TOB is designed to mount on a TKO. I have a Richmond, so I will connect the dots from the MC. Looks like a quality piece and exactly what I need. The MC has a 3/4" bore and a travel of 1.5". That should make just about any hydraulic bearing puke its guts, so I will have to mock everything up and make sure that the bearing is not being over extended.

http://www.pro-touring.com/%7Eandrewb/gtov2/photo25.jpg

I also ordered a Quarter Master street throw out bearing.

http://www.racingclutches.com/product.phtml?p=53&cat_key=89

Andrew

Today I got some more parts for the swap. I got a starter, power steering pump, and a bunch of little parts to complete my accessory drive system. What I have here is basically the C5/C6 layout.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo26.jpg

I also received the GM Performance Parts harness and ECU package. Pretty good value when you consider that it is very complete. It comes with a big relay center and an auxiliary fuse panel that needs to be mounted somewhere. Its fairly ugly so I don't really know where I am going to put it yet.

Andrew

The benefits of being a bachelor and living alone include being able to have a bunch of car parts in the living room and not hearing "THE DISPOSAL IS CLOGGED!!!" LOL

Besides the engine swap I am doing some suspension mods. I already have some coilovers in the front. The springs in the front are 550 lb/inch. They were marginal with the big block. I think they will work very well with the L92, so for now I am not messing with them. In the rear I currently have some springs that I got way back in the day, from HO Racing.

Who remembers them? If you do, your old!!!

I wanted the ability to adjust the ride height in the rear and more importantly have the ability to properly set the corner weights once the car is done. There are all kinds of solutions to accomplish this, I chose a very nice product from Budzter:

https://www.budzter.com/index.html

Not cheap, but the quality is outstanding and it is a true bolt on. No hacking of the rear is required and its fully reversible. I like that. The spring is 9.5" tall, 175 lb/inch from the Coleman Racing catalog.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo27.jpg

Andrew

I got my Vette regulator/filter combo the other day. There are many ways to make it work in custom applications. I chose to go to the local hydraulic supply store and get some fittings. The compression fittings were about $12 bucks for the pair. Steel, made by Eaton. Dorman and autoparts stores can officially kiss my ass. The little tube in the picture was 16 bucks. Grrr....

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo28.jpg

Andrew

Quick question about the corvette filter/regulator. What pressure does it regulate at? I've got a pro-flow (know it's old, but wanted something easy for a efi newbie) that I'm putting on my 71 Chevelle build (gen VI 454, mild, street friendly) and I was wondering if I could use a similar type set-up and do away with the return line needed at the engine compartment? I was thinking this would be a cleaner install and would eliminate the potential buildup of heat in the fuel system. Am I completely off base, or is this feasible?

Quick question about the corvette filter/regulator. What pressure does it regulate at? I've got a pro-flow (know it's old, but wanted something easy for a efi newbie) that I'm putting on my 71 Chevelle build (gen VI 454, mild, street friendly) and I was wondering if I could use a similar type set-up and do away with the return line needed at the engine compartment? I was thinking this would be a cleaner install and would eliminate the potential buildup of heat in the fuel system. Am I completely off base, or is this feasible?

The Corvette regulator/filter is for Gen III/IV engines. It sets the pressure at 58 psi. It's really only suitable for LSx swaps.

Is your setup carbureted?

Andrew

It seems that just when you think something will only take a short time, the bottom falls out. I got the fittings this morning and got under the car. It's a good thing the rear end was out, because I am not sure if I could have done this with the rear end installed. That also makes me worried that it might be hard to get to the filter for maintenance, but I will cross that bridge when the time comes.

So here is the final installation. It was a little challenging because I didn't have quite enough room. There were some existing lines that I wanted to reuse and this is the best layout that I could come up with.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo29.jpg

Andrew

I have the Edelbrock Pro-Flo. I was thinking that the corvette regulator set-up was at a higher pressure but wasn't sure.

What type of fuel tank set-up are you running?? Looks like your return line is going into the trunk area?? Can you post pics of your set-up?

I'm trying to decide what I'm going to do far as the fuel tank. I'm thinking about installing baffles and a sump in my stock tank and using the supplied in-line fuel pump.

I have the Edelbrock Pro-Flo. I was thinking that the corvette regulator set-up was at a higher pressure but wasn't sure.

What type of fuel tank set-up are you running?? Looks like your return line is going into the trunk area?? Can you post pics of your set-up?

I'm trying to decide what I'm going to do far as the fuel tank. I'm thinking about installing baffles and a sump in my stock tank and using the supplied in-line fuel pump.

My car already had EFI before this swap. The tank is stock but was modified by Rock Valley. They installed a small sump on the bottom and installed an intank pump insert on top. The pump is a Walbro 255 L/hr. There is an access panel in the trunk so that the pump can be services without dropping the tank. I will snap a picture tomorrow. I would go with an intank pump setup if possible. It's quieter and the pump stays cooler.

Andrew

I also got the got the Quarter Master "street" hydraulic bearing today. Remember how I said in a previous post that the clutch fingers are 3.25" away from the face of the bellhousing? We this is where that dimension is critical. The bearing has to be shimmed so that it is .100"-.150" from the clutch fingers. The shims go between the bearing retainer and the bearing and move it closer to the clutch fingers. I have mine set with a .090" gap. Tighter than what is recommended, but I am comfortable with it. The gap is needed because as the clutch wears, the spring fingers will move back towards the bearing. If there is no gap, the spring fingers will start to press against the bearing and there is the potential for clutch slippage due to decreased spring pressure.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo30.jpg

Andrew

So tonight I tackled the installation of the Keisler clutch master kit. Overall I am pretty pleased with this setup. I had to clearance a small section of the mounting plate to clear the steering column, however that is no fault of the product. As I recall, my steering column is a hair over to the left. I did that so the steering shaft would clear the headers. The notch is minor as you can see in the picture:

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo31.jpg

The rod from the MC to the pedal makes a straight shot and fits well. I did have to remove the little bracket that held my backup light switch, so I will have to figure out something else for that.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo32.jpg

Once everything was installed I wanted to test how far my throw out bearing would move with the full travel of the clutch pedal. This is important because moving the bearing past a certain point will cause it to leak and possibly get damaged. So I connected a long hard line to the MC and ran it to the outside of the car. Connected my Quarter Master release bearing, and bled the system.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo33.jpg

It turned out that the bearing moved about .610" with the full stroke of the clutch pedal. This is perfect considering that the max travel on this bearing is about .650". The net step will be to see how well the bearing releases the clutch. Tomorrow I will bolt everything together and mock it up outside the car. This seems like a lot of work, but it sure beats taking everything apart after the fact.

Andrew

Looking good. Thanks for the pictures of the kiesler kit, I have been wandering how that setup worked.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo32.jpg


I wish the C5 would use the same linkage. A round rod is a pain to get grip on to adjust.

Keep up the updates I lurk over to Ls1tech as well.

Good write-up so far Andrew. I bought four of those L92 engines from the same guy, and will probably put one of them into my '69 vert now.

Tony

In the rear I currently have some springs that I got way back in the day, from HO Racing.

Who remembers them? If you do, your old!!!


Old is relative, but I do remember them...I have a set on the rear of my Chevelle too! I guess I'm old...

Nice job documenting your work! Looks great!

Old is relative, but I do remember them...I have a set on the rear of my Chevelle too! I guess I'm old...

Nice job documenting your work! Looks great!

Old is relative indeed. LOL...I am going to be 38 next week and I feel like I am 19. I had the HO parts installed on my GTO back in 1991!

Today I wanted to finalize the clutch hydraulics and confirm that everything will work. So I bled the clutch. I know that there are numerous methods out there, as well as all kinds of tools. My favorite solo bleeding method is still the "clear bottle with a tube" method.

http://www.pro-touring.com/%7Eandrewb/gtov2/photo34.jpg

Remember that bleeding hydraulics is not about pressure. There is no need to pump the pedal as hard and fast as you can. The goal is to displace air and replace it with fluid. Gently moving fluid through the system does just that, without aerating the fluid.

Once the hydraulics were free of air I was able to press on the clutch pedal to see what was happening at the bearing. The nice thing about doing this outside of the car is that I am able to look through the clutch fork hole and see exactly what is happening inside the bellhousing. I discovered that the fittings on the side of the throw out bearing were touching the clutch pressure plate. The LS7 clutch spring fingers sit a good ways down when the pressure place is bolted to the flywheel. So the solution was to press the bearing off the piston and put some shims behind it. This way there is more space between the body of the bearing and the face of the bearing. Hard to imagine what I am talking about.

Here is the bearing at rest, with the shims already installed.

http://www.pro-touring.com/%7Eandrewb/gtov2/photo35.jpg

Here is the bearing at full release.

http://www.pro-touring.com/%7Eandrewb/gtov2/photo36.jpg

The pedal is firmer than I expected, but the release is super smooth. So much better than the mechanical bearing with the z-bar. I would recommend this mod to anyone, regardless of engine choice.

Andrew

Today I worked on the rear end. I degreased it and gave it a rattle can make over. Along with the cosmetic touch up I installed new upper control arm bushings and finished up the installation of the weight jacks.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo37.jpg

If anyone else is using these weight jacks, I would highly recommend painting them. They are steel with a black oxide coating. I already saw signs of surface rust after sitting in the garage for only 2 weeks.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo38.jpg

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo39.jpg

Tomorrow the rear end will get plugged back in and I will start on the wiring. With any luck, the engine will be going in next weekend.

Andrew

The rear end is back in the car and the spring adjusters work great. Here is what the spring looks like at the new ride height.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo40.jpg

The old ride height was 28" to the top of the wheel well opening. The new rise height is 26". This is as low as I am going to go. As you can see there is not much room between the axle tubes and the exhaust. The 2" drop makes a huge impact in terms of looks. I have tall, 28", tires and now they are tucked up inside the wheel well.

Andrew

It is amazing what difference 2" in ride height makes. The rear seems to sit so much lower now. I am sure part of this is due to the fact that I have tall tires and now they looked tucked inside the wheel well.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo41.jpg

Andrew

I have been working on getting the wiring sorted out. The GMPP harness has three huge connectors that go to the ECU. In order to fit them through the firewall I would need at least a 3" hole. There is already a 2" hole in the firewall so I wanted to see if I could somehow feed the harness through it. The only way to do that was to start feeding the harness from the inside. With some effort I was able to feed it through. However the huge relay center was not going to make it. So I cut the wires to the relay center. It's no big deal since I will most likely have to lengthen that harness anyway. I would like to mount the relay center on the radiator support so it will not be so visible.

I also fixed some wiring oddities that were done by a shop that did the wiring during the original build. Odd things, like having wires that went from the bulkhead connector fed through the firewall then back out through the firewall, and back to the backup switch. Who does that s**t?

Another thing that I will have to do is get a different pedal. The one that is included with the GMPP harness kit is just plain awful. It is big, and huge, and ugly, and pretty much looks like it's made for semi truck. I think a pedal from a Corvette or a Chevy Malibu might work much better. Maybe a quick trip to the dealership is in order. LOL

Andrew

Sometimes one has to wonder, "WHAT THE F**K WERE THESE PEOPLE THINKING?" GMPP did a very nice job coming out with a harness and ECU combo that was priced right, fits well, and is easy to hook up. Then you realize that the engineer who speced the gas pedal has never turned a wrench in his (or her) life. The pedal that they send with the harness kit is on the right:

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo42.jpg

It is HUGE and looks like it belongs on a dump truck. I can't imagine that it would fit into any car or streetrod etc...

Thanks for Jeff Schwartz, I got an alternative. The pedal on the left is from a 2007 Monte Carlo SS.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo43.jpg

Nice and tidy, with an easy to mount flange. I was able to position it exactly where the old gas pedal was. I even used one of the original holes, drilled an extra hole, and was done.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo44.jpg

So with some luck, I hope to drop the engine in this weekend.

Andrew

wow... the modern technology you're putting in this car is amazing. I like the look of you new ride height, very cool. Never seen those coil spring adjusters before. pretty cool as well.

Not much to say, as a picture is worth a thousand words:

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo45.jpg

Andrew

Woohoo! It's in.

The pedal pics confuse me... I thought you were going to use the smaller one with the dimples.

IS that an I squared fuse panel your using? If so what do you think of it?

Woohoo! It's in.

The pedal pics confuse me... I thought you were going to use the smaller one with the dimples.

The pictures are a little deceiving. The one with the dimples is much larger. That is the pedal that came with the GMPP kit. It's pretty hard to mount. The pedal on the left is the Monte Carlo pedal and was much easier to install.

Andrew

IS that an I squared fuse panel your using? If so what do you think of it?

I am not sure what you are referring to but my car harness/fuse panel was from Centech Wire.

Andrew

Today I finally got done with modifying the GMPP engine harness. There were a few things that I did not like about it and I also wanted to give it some custom touches. The thought crossed my mind to completely reloom the harness, but I decided against it. Once I got the harness all hooked up and routed, it was pretty obvious that most of the harness is not really visible. It tucks very nicely behind the engine. The most visible parts are the extremities. The little branches that go to the various sensors, throttle body, and injectors. So I addressed just those areas. Here you can see how I kept the main branch of the portion of the harness that tuns along the fuel rail. What I did reloom were all the little fuel injector sections. You can also see the fuel line. It is a smooth bore Teflon braided stainless line that I covered with the nylon loom material.

http://pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo47.jpg

Here you can see a section of the harness that had several branches going to the coolant temp sensor, alternator, crank sensor and MAF. It looked like this:

http://pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo48.jpg

I changed it to this:

http://pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo49.jpg

Not a huge difference, but a small detail.

I also routed the line from the coolant crossover tube. This tube can be routed to several places. The most popular is to run it to the radiator by the upper radiator hose. Others run a T in the upper radiator hose and routed there. On 5.3L Trailblazers the line runs to the large heater hose. So I drilled and tapped the water pump and ran a stainless hardline from the crossover tube to the water pump.

http://pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo46.jpg

Getting really close to firing it up!

Andrew

Look at all that room even with the radiator installed. I love the Corvette accessories. Plenty of room on the passenger side for a GT42R. :secret2:

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo50.jpg

I would say 75% of the engine is behind the front axle centerline. With any luck this thing will have about a 50/50 weight distribution.

Andrew

I was looking at a fuse panel made by a company called I squared its pretty interesting it incorporates the relays right into the fuse panel. It looks alot like yours. I was hoping to find someone who has used it so I could get some feedback. Your car is coming along great by the way. Are those the Edelbrock headers?

I was looking at a fuse panel made by a company called I squared its pretty interesting it incorporates the relays right into the fuse panel. It looks alot like yours. I was hoping to find someone who has used it so I could get some feedback. Your car is coming along great by the way. Are those the Edelbrock headers?

Yes, those are Edelbrock headers and I have to say that they are the best headers that I have ever owned. Perfect fit, stainless, and coated. The only thing that I wish they did was to use a V-band collector clamp. That's just personal preference.

Andrew

Yes, those are Edelbrock headers and I have to say that they are the best headers that I have ever owned. Perfect fit, stainless, and coated. The only thing that I wish they did was to use a V-band collector clamp. That's just personal preference.

Andrew

I was wondering, do they have an o2 bung on them?

I was wondering, do they have an o2 bung on them?

The bungs are not welded into the header, but thats a good thing. Edelbrock includes the bungs and lets the customer choose where they need to be installed. This is a great way to do it because of the variables such as transmission crossmembers and such.

Andrew

Here is a short video of the engine being fired up:

Video Link (http://www.pro-touring.com/%7Eandrewb/gtov2/video01.wmv)

Please do Right click and Save Link As.

Sorry about the quality. It was made with a cell phone. LOL

Andrew

While this is all true Tony, the downside is that I have to travel 500 miles to see my kids, instead of seeing them everyday. You win.

So I am down to all of the little details that can take a long time to get done. Basically I am down to "connecting the dots." I got a small tube that goes from the power steering reservoir to the power steering pump. That allowed me to install the power steering pulley and finalize the accessory drive with a belt. I really like the Katech belt tensioner. I had some belt throwing issues on the RX7 and I am sure that this will cure any potential issues.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo51.jpg

I also mounted the fuse and relay panel that came with the GMPP harness. Originally I thought I wanted to mount it on the radiator support. This would have made it less obvious. The downside to that is that all of the wires would need to be lengthened. I really didn't feel like doing that. Having it on the firewall gives me quick access to all of the fuses and the relays. There is also a "check engine" LED installed in the fuse panel. Having it on the firewall will allow me to quickly glance and see if there are any trouble codes. The number one reason for putting it on the firewall is that it allowed me to cover up some of the holes that were there from the coil and ignition box.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo52.jpg

I also installed and bled the new, .700" bore clutch MC. The Keisler kit came with a .750" bore but I wanted a softer pedal and less bearing travel. You can see the hardline going from the MC down along the frame rail. It then mates with the braided line coming off the throw out bearing.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo53.jpg

Speaking of MCs. I also changed the brake MC. This one is a 15/16" bore MC from a 1979 Malibu. While I had no issues with my S10 quick take up MC, I was a little concerned about the shallow pushrod dimple. This MC has a very deep pushrod hole as well as a little snap ring that keep the pushrod retained inside the MC.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo54.jpg

Tomorrow I need to order some radiator hose couplers from Jags That Run.

Andrew

Since this was a truck engine there are a few things on it that are specific to being in a truck. The oil filler tube in the valve cover is one of those things, and the other is the dipstick. While both of these items are perfectly functional, they look a little out of place with the low, car style intake. Here is what I am talking about:

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo55.jpg

The short filler tube is from a C6. You can see how much better it looks than the tall truck style filler. Same goes for the dipstick. Here you can see the C6 dipstick tube. (I am still waiting for the dipstick to arrive)

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo56.jpg

The total for the 3 items at the local dealership was just over $40. No doubt mail order would be less, but then you have to add shipping. If you are ordering a bunch of other parts it would make sense to include these small items.

A while back I also received this handy, dandy fitting adapter kit:

Metric fitting kit (http://www.iequus.com/product_info.php?product_id=6848)

I used the adapters to install my oil filter sender behind the intake manifold, as well as to install the water temperature sending unit into the passenger side head:

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo57.jpg

Another company that has great products for adapting LSx engines into all kinds of cars is Jags That Run (http://www.jagsthatrun.com). JTR offers these simple aluminum tubes that allow you to mate up two radiator hoses of different diameters. This make making radiator hoses a breeze. Here is the adapter for the lower hose. It reduces the 1 3/4" lower radiator hose on my radiator, to the 1 1/2" hose on the thermostat housing of LSx engines:

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo58.jpg

I got the hoses at O'Reilly's autoparts. The little 90 degree upper hose was PN 20267.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo59.jpg

The lower hose was PN 21064. It has the perfect bend that follows the frame and included an internal spring. Here is the end result after the hoses were trimmed and joined together by the coupler:

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo60.jpg

Look for more updates this evening.

Andrew

Andrew, looks great so far. You should check out the shrink fit hose clamps from mcmaster.com. They make the unions on the coolant hoses so much cleaner looking.

Andrew, looks great so far. You should check out the shrink fit hose clamps from mcmaster.com. They make the unions on the coolant hoses so much cleaner looking.

I have seen it used on cars but can't seem identify it on the McMaster website. Would you be kind enough to link me or tell on what page of the catalog its located?

Thanks!
Andrew

I have seen it used on cars but can't seem identify it on the McMaster website. Would you be kind enough to link me or tell on what page of the catalog its located?

Thanks!
Andrew

Gates makes them too. Any parts store can get them, Jegs too.

I have seen it used on cars but can't seem identify it on the McMaster website. Would you be kind enough to link me or tell on what page of the catalog its located?

Thanks!
Andrew

www.mcmaster.com

Page 257

Mcmaster has an easy order system and fast shipping. You can imagine how many parts store guys gave me blank looks when I asked for shrink fit hose clamps. Trust me, mcmaster is the way to go.

Option B:

Gates Power Grip ... They are thermal hose clamps. Jegs carries them as well as the local NAPA I believe...http://www.jegs.com/p/Gates/943359/10002/-1

http://www.jegs.com/images/photos/400/465/465-32967.jpg

Don't trust your engine to just any hose clamps. Get a grip and get the revolutionary Gates Power Grip Hose Clamps. Maintenance-free clamps that retain dynamic tension and never need retightening. These clamps stop leaks, even on out-of-round applications. Clamp down better in all conditions and temperature extremes. Sold individually.

Benefits and Features:

* Easy to install with ordinary heat gun
* Wider sealing area entraps connector bead
* Conform to any shape of hose and housing
* Made from a heat-sensitive thermoplastic with a memory to prevent over- or under-tightening
* Unique indicator tells you when clamp has shrunk to seal

Temperature rating: -40°F to 302°F

Thanks for all the tips guys. I will give the local Napa a try. If they don't have them, I will leave it be for another time.

Andrew

I spent all day in the garage today, but I am afraid that there wasn't really anything new to show you guys. I did a lot more of "connecting the dots." I found the wire under the dash that went back to the relay for my fuel pump. This was used by the Commander 950 to turn on the pump. The GMPP harness already had a relay for the fuel pump, but I really like taking power directly from the battery to run the fuel pump. So after consulting with a couple of folks I decided to just run two relays. The relay in the harness activates the relay in the back of the car. After hooking everything up it worked perfectly. When the ignition key is in the "Run" position the pump primes for about 5 seconds and then shuts off.

Since I got all of the coolant hoses hooked up, I went ahead and filled the system. I filled the radiator. Then I filled the block through the upper radiator hose. I fired it up and ran the engine for a while. The O2 sensors are not hooked up and as it warmed up, and went into closed loop, it started idling a little rough, but it did not die. So I let it idle and warm up a bit. The stock thermostat is probably around 205 and the ECU turns on the fans at 212. The lower radiator hose stayed relatively cool until the thermostat opened. Once that happened, I just topped off the radiator and hopefully that will do it. The fans kicked on at around 212 as they were supposed to. Nice thing about the GTO is that I already had a giant Be Cool radiator. I never had any issues with the 502 and I am sure it will cool this engine just fine. The RX7 had half the radiator, and almost no grill, and I didn't have any issues.

Now I need a little help from everyone. The GMPP harness instruction say that the tach signal is a low voltage 2 pulse square wave. It also said that some older tachs may require a pull up resistor in order to function properly. I hooked up the wire from the tack and sure enough it did not work. So, what the heck is a pull up resistor and how do I hook it up?

I am trying really hard to resist project "scope creep." So with some luck this thing will move under its own power next weekend. LS swap in less than 2 months, not bad, if I do say so myself.

Andrew

So today I did as this thread above indicated:

http://ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=894418&highlight=resistor+up+pull

I installed a 1K Ohm resistor between a switched power source and the tach signal wire:

http://www.pro-touring.com/%7Eandrewb/gtov2/photo61.jpg

The tach worked, but the needle was kind of jumpy below 1000 RPM. Any electronics experts have a suggestion?

Andrew

So after being a little ticked off this morning about the whole tachometer ordeal I decided to make some calls. I called my buddy John Parsons and he gave me a quick run down of Ohms Law. So I decided that instead of getting a collection of various resistors I would get a 10K Ohm potentiometer and see what works best. So I hooked up the potentiometer to the tach and set it to the 10K setting. Fired up the car and the tach seemed to work fine at low RPM. I then kept reducing the resistance until the tach stopped responding. The I zeroed in on the lowest setting where the tach responded smoothly. I then turned off the car and measured the resistance across the potentiometer. It rea 3.9K Ohms. So I gave myself some headroom and installed a 4.7K Ohm resistor. So far so good. The tach does seem to flutter ever so slightly at about 800 RPM, but there are no random fluctuations to zero. I think that will do it.

I also went to Napa and they had the Gates heat shrink hose clamps in stock. They only had a couple of sizes, but I was able to do the upper radiator hose:

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo62.jpg

I have to say that the hose clamps work as advertised. I will order some extras from McMaster just to have them around.

I also finished bleeding the brakes, filled up the transmission with fluid, and tightened up the rear suspension bolts. Hopefully next weekend I can get it into the fabricator to have the exhaust finishes up.

Andrew

those hose clamps are very cool. I'm going to run down to napa and get some as well. thanks for the pictures. I suppose you just put them on and heat them up ith a heat gun and you're done?

The car is comming together, can't wait to see the finished product.

LS swap in a couple months, i'd say you've been pretty busy.

.....I suppose you just put them on and heat them up ith a heat gun and you're done?........

Yes, very simple to install.

The Big Brown truck showed up today with the hose clamps from McMaster Carr. I got the big clamps to do the 1.75" section of the lower radiator hose, as well as some smaller clamps to do the heater hose.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo63.jpg

In retrospect, I should have installed the little hose reducer a little further back in the heater hose so it would not be so visible, but oh well. It's done.

One thing that I learned while working on the RX7 is that the LSx engines are a little finicky to "burp." One trick that really helps is to fill the engine through the upper radiator hose. What this does is fill the block as much as possible before the engine is even started. After filling the engine through the upper hose, I fired it up and topped off the radiator. I don't think that cooling will be an issue at all with this engine. I have a huge Be Cool radiator and it took about 20 minutes for the engine to reach 210. Once the thermostat opened I topped off the radiator again. The fans kicked on at just over 210 (the ECU documentation said they are supposed to kick on at 212) and it only took about 10 seconds for the temp to drop enough for the fans to shut off. Driving around I don't think the fans will kick on at all.

Andrew

In a previous update I mentioned that I swapped out my brake master cylinder for another one. I did this mainly to resolve an issue with the push rod retention method. The MC that I am currently using has a nice deep pushrod hole as well as a clip on the tip of the pushrod that retains it inside the MC. Just because everything bolted up fine, doesn’t mean that this MC will work in my application. The pedal seemed to be very high and the pedal effort is rather high. So I decided to see what was really happening at the caliper. I went to my local hydraulic hose retailer and picked up an inexpensive pressure gauge. After installing the gauge in a bleeder screw in my caliper I had a friend step on the break pedal and to see what kind of pressure was being generated. Keep in mind that Wilwood rates their calipers at a maximum of 1200psi. From what I understand, past that point the caliper starts to deflect. So here is the result:

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo64.jpg

With moderate pedal effort my friend was able to generate a fairly easy 800-1000psi at the caliper. By pushing a little harder I am sure that he was going past 1200psi. With all that being said, I think that this MC will work just fine. The pedal effort will be moderate and the braking will be excellent!

Andrew

You have to get one of these . It makes filling antifreeze a one minute air pocket free deal and you never have to worry about air pockets again. we use it on every car that runs through the shop. try filling a 3.4 dohc Grand Prix with no air pockets. this thing does it first time everytime.
http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0geu8fPTyRIXrEAh4ZXNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTE0NnRwdjV yBHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMgRjb2xvA2FjMgR2dGlkA01BUDAwM184O Q--/SIG=12s9trf81/EXP=1210425679/**http%3a//www.amazon.com/UView-550000-Airlift-Cooling-Checker/dp/B0002SRH5G

Andrew,

It's coming along very nice. On the brake m/c you mentioned a 1979 Malibu back in this thread. It seems that the 1977 Malibu turns up on other searches I have done. Are they the same? Also if you don't mind what push rod are you using? I think I may give manual brakes a try and the Malibu m/c seems like it's priced right. I had thought about using the C5 M/C and booster, but I have not seen any chevelles running those.

Thanks,
Tom

Andrew,

It's coming along very nice. On the brake m/c you mentioned a 1979 Malibu back in this thread. It seems that the 1977 Malibu turns up on other searches I have done. Are they the same? Also if you don't mind what push rod are you using? I think I may give manual brakes a try and the Malibu m/c seems like it's priced right. I had thought about using the C5 M/C and booster, but I have not seen any chevelles running those.

Thanks,
Tom

Tom,

Thanks for catching my mistake. You are correct. The brake MC that I am using is for a 1977 Malibu w/manual brakes. I am using Raybestos PN MC39946. This MC should work OK with the C5/C6 brakes. Do you know the size of the pistons in your calipers?

The Raybestos MC came with a pushrod. I was able to cut it, thread it, and mate it to the A-body clevis.

Andrew

Tom,

Thanks for catching my mistake. You are correct. The brake MC that I am using is for a 1977 Malibu w/manual brakes. I am using Raybestos PN MC39946. This MC should work OK with the C5/C6 brakes. Do you know the size of the pistons in your calipers?

The Raybestos MC came with a pushrod. I was able to cut it, thread it, and mate it to the A-body clevis.

Andrew

Thanks for the reply and clarification. My front brakes are the Kore3 C6 (Think they are 40MM ?) and the rear is Baer (PBR) single piston...not sure what the size. I have a few other questions. Maybe if OK I will try and ring you in the next couple days.

Thanks.

Thanks for the reply and clarification. My front brakes are the Kore3 C6 (Think they are 40MM ?) and the rear is Baer (PBR) single piston...not sure what the size. I have a few other questions. Maybe if OK I will try and ring you in the next couple days.

Thanks.

Tom,

Feel free to call me anytime. I enjoy talking to you. The Malibu MC should work and if it doesn't, then your not out a great deal of money. I got mine for $30. Wilwood makes a 7/8" manual MC now. That was my plan B if the Malibu MC did not work out.

Andrew

any pics of the crossmember and how the motors mounted. i know you used the edelbrock plates, but did you spin the stands? what combo s/w t/n or a mix? any tie rod to pan issues? are the headers close anywhere?

Thanks, Tim

any pics of the crossmember and how the motors mounted. i know you used the edelbrock plates, but did you spin the stands? what combo s/w t/n or a mix? any tie rod to pan issues? are the headers close anywhere?

Thanks, Tim

Tim,

I am using the same frame stands that were on the car when I had the big block. The stands are the repop 68-72, like this:

http://www.ss396.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=chevellecamino&Product_Code=ACE-9794&Category_Code=ENGINEDETAILINGMOTOR

My motor mounts are from Energy Suspension. They are the tall and narrow version. They slip over those frame stands perfectly. I did not flip the mounts or the Edelbrock adapter plates. I want the engine as low as possible in the chassis, mainly for driveline angle issues. The inner tie rods do make contact with the pan at the very extremes. My tires also rub the swaybar at the same time. So I am either going to install different stops in the steering box or just leave it and remember not to crank the wheel that far when parking. I don't see this as an issue when driving, because I will never crank the wheel that far at speed.

Andrew

Big day today. After a rather dismal, windy day yesterday, the weather today was just amazing. I needed a little inspiration so I decided that it was time for the GTO to move under its own power. I so installed a seat, put on some wheels, cleared out the tools, and pulled it out of the garage.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo65.jpg

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo66.jpg

Of course I couldn't resist. So I went around the block. The clutch is silky smooth. Converting from the old Z-bar to the hydraulic release was definitely worth it. The clutch actuation is just like on a modern car. Super smooth. I still don't have exhaust so the drive was short. The brakes felt solid so the MC is working well. I also noticed some noises which I think are the result of my messing around with driveline angles. I raised the back of my transmission to get the angles perfect, but now the u-joint is grazing the floor. More on driveline angles later.

Notice how much higher the front sits. I bet it's up a minimum of 2". I can't wait to get the thing scaled. I am also contemplating getting a fiberglass hood and ditching the shaker. The stock hood is probably 40-50 lbs, plus another 10 lbs for the shaker. A Glasstek fiberglass hood is probably about 25 lbs. I am open to opinions.

Andrew

I am open to opinions.

Since you clearly have no idea which way you'd like to go, just give me your car and I'll figure out which hood is best later on! :D

Ryan

Since you clearly have no idea which way you'd like to go, just give me your car and I'll figure out which hood is best later on! :D

Ryan

Ryan,

You are so kind!

This is an update for the techno geeks. If you like looking at pretty pictures, stop reading now, and move on. If being diligent about every little technical detail of your car is something that you enjoy doing, than please read on.

Ever since I have owned my car, all 23 years, I have had some sort of vibration in the driveline at speeds about 70 MPH. Most of the equipment on my car has changed numerous times. The only constant being the ride height. In recent weeks I have really been studying what actually happens with these cars when they are lowered. I give a lot of credit to Troy, I forget his user name here. LOL He and I have exchanged some messages back and forth and he has really helped me to understand what it will take to make my car smooth. This is a thread that he started on Chevelles.com:

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=213271

There is also another great website that I used:

http://www.vibratesoftware.com/html_help/html/Diagnosis/Propshaft/Propshaft_Angles.htm

This is by far the best website for explaining and measuring driveline angles.

The problem with GM A-bodies is that as the cars are lowered in the rear and front working angle increases dramatically. While it is possible to match the the rear working angle to the front working angle with adjustable upper control arms in the rear, this still does not address the problem of just having too much working angle.

I have no doubt that I will get 10 different opinion on this post. There seems to be a lot of conflicting information when it comes to driveline angles. I feel that the information in the above website is the most accurate that I have seen to date.

For the sake of this discussion I will always refer to something pointing UP when it is pointing from the back to the front of the car. Like this:

[front] \ [rear] = UP

[front] / [rear] = DOWN

I made a spacer which raised the back of the transmission about 1/2". My final readings were as follows:

Transmission: 2.5* UP
Driveshaft: .3* UP
Pinion: 2* DOWN

Front working angle: 2.5 - 0.3 = 2.2*
Rear working angle: 2 + 0.3 = 2.3*

I ran the car on jackstands and took it up to about 4000 RPM in 6th gear, which is over 5000RPM driveshaft speed. It seemed very smooth. Much more so than at other setting. The ultimate test will be how the car feels at speed.

Andrew

andrew - i know that the angles dont need to be in relation to the frame, but were those readings? our combos are pretty close and it will get me in the ball park.

Tim

andrew - i know that the angles dont need to be in relation to the frame, but were those readings? our combos are pretty close and it will get me in the ball park.

Tim

Tim,

Currently my driveshaft is pretty much level with the frame.

Andrew

Ryan,

You are so kind!

I do what I can! I really miss my El Camino when I see ones like yours. Mine was never finished, but nowhere near the craftsmanship, either. Very well done and I'm not the least bit jealous ;)

There is also another great website that I used:

http://www.vibratesoftware.com/html_help/html/Diagnosis/Propshaft/Propshaft_Angles.htm

This is by far the best website for explaining and measuring driveline angles.

Bookmarked! Great site. I've been learning a lot about rotating group balance at my new job and can say that this is just touching on the basics, but very good info nonetheless.

Best of luck with the car, Andrew! Enjoy it!

Ryan

Today I got the notice of approval from Grundy Insurance. On Monday I will go get the car registered and it will be legal to drive on the street. I also ordered a new 3" to 3" Dr. Gas x-pipe. This will just make the exhaust work a little simpler and cleaner. That should be here on Monday.

My car is not orange..LOL

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo67.jpg

Andrew

I was going through some old paperwork this afternoon and I found my old corner scale sheet. Here are the numbers with driver:

[Front Left]-------------------------[Front Right]
1218----------------------------------1153



[Rear Left]---------------------------[Rear Right]
929------------------------------------884

Total Weight = 4184

56.7% front
43.4% rear

Andrew

Andrew

I just gotta tell you that the mag article about your car was the nudge that sent me to pro tour my 70ss....


I thank you - but my wallet and wife no not!

Joe

Andrew

I just gotta tell you that the mag article about your car was the nudge that sent me to pro tour my 70ss....


I thank you - but my wallet and wife no not!

Joe

I am glad that I was able to inspire you. :beers:

Andrew

what are those kenisis wheels? whats the specs

what are those kenisis wheels? whats the specs

Kinesis wheels are not what they used to be when I bought them. About 2 years ago they were bought out by Lexani. If you are looking for a true 3 piece modular wheels, I would give Forgeline or CCW a call.

My front wheels are 18x8 with 5" of back spacing. The rears are 18x10.5 with 6.5" backspacing. I plan on having the fronts widened to 9.5" wide.

Andrew

A stock GTO hood would be cool.

A stock GTO hood with functioning ram air feeding your LS would be awesome.

But you knew all that already...!

~Scotch~

Today I got the exhaust buttoned up. A new Dr.Gas x-pipe was installed and connected the headers to the mufflers. The car is very quiet. Almost too quiet. I has a nice deep tone. It is a hair louder than a new ZO6 Corvette. I got the wideband hooked up as well and as suspected the car was a little rich. Once I drove it a little the ECU started trimming the A/F ratio and now it is very close. I may not have to get it tuned at all. We'll see how the WOT A/F ratio is on the dyno.

I also weighed the car on the new scales at Beech Bend. I had 1/3 of a tank of gas, no hood, no passenger seat, and I was in the car. I think I am about 275.

Anyone care to guess what the car weighed?

Andrew

I'll guess down to 4000... how much fuel was in it at the last weigh in? I figure you shaved 175 lbs or so off the nose.

I'll guess down to 4000... how much fuel was in it at the last weigh in? I figure you shaved 175 lbs or so off the nose.

I don't remember how much gas it had when I originally scaled the car :/

With me in it, no hood, no passenger seat, 1/3 tank of gas, it was 3828.

3823
minus 275 for my fat ass
add 50 for hood
add 25 for seat

3623

So it looks like the car lost a little under 300 pounds from the swap. Not bad. It will be really interesting to get the corner scale data.

Andrew

No better place to loose 300 lbs than over the nose. That thing should get a nice boost in handling.

As for the hood. Go glass with stock looking RA scoops. A pail should be ok for a pass seat, just be sure to give em a seat belt.

This morning I took the GMAT test and my brain was sizzled.

I got a replacement alternator in the mail today. I have to admit that the partsamerica.com exchange system works quickly and effortlessly. I just hope this alternator will last more than a few days. After installing it I drove around town and put about 50 miles on the car. The alternator seems fine and the car runs strong. I got on it a few times and it certainly feels as strong as the big block did, although the lack of torque is noticeable in second gear. I used to be able to break the tires loose from a roll in second. No more. That's not surprising and I am sure that the drag strip times will not be disappointing. This engine pulls like a freight train above 3000 RPM.

I also noticed that it is running fairly rich at WOT. My wideband was showing a steady 11.9:1. That is not surprising since I am using the LS7 tune up. Once the engine is broken in some more I will take it to my local tuner and tweak a little bit. There is no black smoke and no drivability issues at all. I should pull a plug.

On the highway there is still a little vibration above 80MPH. Before doing anything drastic I am going to double check the wheels and tires as well as the driveshaft. Since the car sat for a while it is entirely possible that the tires have developed some flat spots and that will certainly be felt at high speed.

Andrew

get some video of it! keep up the good work! can you give a guess on how much the swap has cost you?

get some video of it! keep up the good work! can you give a guess on how much the swap has cost you?

A swap like this will run about 8-9K. If you used an LS1 it would be less. My car already had an EFI ready fuel system. So its really hard to estimate costs for such swaps because every car is different.

Andrew

Nice work Andrew.

Thanks for the info on the JtR radiator hose adapters. I posted a question at PT.com yesterday about where to find them.

Does the GMPP power center have most everything needed for the swap? Full fan and fuel pump power, etc.

Nice work Andrew.

Thanks for the info on the JtR radiator hose adapters. I posted a question at PT.com yesterday about where to find them.

Does the GMPP power center have most everything needed for the swap? Full fan and fuel pump power, etc.

Thanks Carl!

The GMPP relay and fuse center has everything that you will need. You just have to run an 8 gauge, or bigger, power wire to it. They say that you can mount the center anywhere in the engine bay, but yesterday I discovered that's not really true. I mounted mine on the firewall, about 12 inches from the headers, and that's too close. As I was driving down the highway I lost all power to the ECU. My engine dies and my fuel pressure went to zero. I thought I lost the fuel pump. So I pulled over and started checking the basics. I noticed that the relays were kinda hot. After letting it sit for about 30 minutes it fired back up. So I have to move the panel or make a small heat shield.

What engine are you using Carl?

Andrew

That's a nice setup if it includes all of the needed circuitry. I'm running a LS1/GTO harness and having to adapt relays and fuse systems while trying to fit it all in the front LH fenderwell.

Here's it is. LS1, LPE cam, Magnacharged, T56. Many similar OE systems like yours. Still need to get fresh air (a super PITA due to no core support room) ECM/sensor/fan/fuel power, coolant hoses, convert speedo, adapt tach, etc. The same game you're into. I really wanted to run an OE airbox but unfortunately cannot make it fit. I'm looking hard at ducting air from the hood. Some type of duct attached to the underside of the hood leading to a box in front corner of the engine bay.

How much were the JtR adapters? I'll order Monday.

http://img141.imageshack.us/img141/2723/img0050uc3.jpg

not the only non chevelle hear

but its a shame not to see it poncho powered

not the only non chevelle hear

but its a shame not to see it poncho powered :sad:

Why should the Chevrolet guys enjoy modern power plants, while the Pontiac guys are stuck poring money into an engine that was designed when Dwight Eisenhower was president??? Give me a break already.

Tonight I went to Beech Bend for their Saturday night test and tune. With the hood back on, passenger seat installed, half tank of gas, race weight was 3941 with me in it. I was running the same Nitto 555s that were installed back in 2002. Needless to say, they are a little hard. The temperature was about 85 degrees and very humid. After a few crusty passes, I managed to click off my best pass for the night.

60' 2.1
12.78 @ 111 MPH


I am pretty happy.

Andrew

Andrew,
where are you located. Says Chicago, but you say you went to beechbend tonight.

Andrew,
where are you located. Says Chicago, but you say you went to beechbend tonight.

I live in Bowling Green.

Andrew

I just had it chassis dynoed today. Anyone making guesses?

Andrew

I just had it chassis dynoed today. Anyone making guesses?

Andrew

I gonna guess 408HP

Edit: I know that is low but based on the ET which is not dialed in I could be off by 30HP or So?

422

Geez. A very mildly modified modern engine powerplant that gets great mileage, cup-cake driving manners, and will run low 12's in a 4000# setup. What's not to like?

Geez. A very mildly modified modern engine powerplant that gets great mileage, cup-cake driving manners, and will run low 12's in a 4000# setup. What's not to like?

You got that right Carl!

It made 418/389, running pig rich. I didn't bother getting it tuned right now because the shaker needs to be finished up.

Andrew

:sad:

Why should the Chevrolet guys enjoy modern power plants, while the Pontiac guys are stuck poring money into an engine that was designed when Dwight Eisenhower was president??? Give me a break already.

Tonight I went to Beech Bend for their Saturday night test and tune. With the hood back on, passenger seat installed, half tank of gas, race weight was 3941 with me in it. I was running the same Nitto 555s that were installed back in 2002. Needless to say, they are a little hard. The temperature was about 85 degrees and very humid. After a few crusty passes, I managed to click off my best pass for the night.

60' 2.1
12.78 @ 111 MPH


I am pretty happy.

Andrew

because anybody can drop a lsx in. but to take a 350 pontiac and putting new technology to it takes a little more than a basic engine swap. not trying to be offensive or anything but it takes away the cars character to me. but i like the car.

let me put it another way its like having a beautiful girl and finding out she has fake tits or is a lesbian or something. sorry if offended didnt mean too.

let me put it another way its like having a beautiful girl and finding out she has fake tits or is a lesbian or something. sorry if offended didnt mean too.

Everyone has their own opinion, and if you wont drive a hot chick because she has fake bewbs, thats your prerogative. But I think you will find that most people in the pro-touring forum are performance purists, not originality purists. To take a 350 Pontiac and match the performance and drivabilty of Andrew's setup wouldn't be hard, it would be impossible.

because anybody can drop a lsx in. but to take a 350 pontiac and putting new technology to it takes a little more than a basic engine swap......

OK, I'll bite. Please enlighten us all as to the magic formula of making 500 HP at the crank with a Pontiac 350. Just a basic list of parts will suffice.

Andrew

Now now Andrew, we know better than to ruffle the feathers of the Pontiac crowd when it comes to keeping the Pontiac powerplant... they get almost as agitated as the 'Vette boys with non-numbers matching parts. :D

putting an lsx in a car is not routine. it would be like installing that silicone by starting the process by inserting them through her rectum. trust me, not everyone can do it.

OK, I'll bite. Please enlighten us all as to the magic formula of making 500 HP at the crank with a Pontiac 350. Just a basic list of parts will suffice.

Andrew

no clue i never built a pontiac. im a buick guy sorry. im sure aluminun heads good cam. bore it efi system etc.. and you could see it but like i said i dont know alot about pontiacs. i have seen a 562 hp small block buick. so i dont see y you couldnt.

also you cant make 500 hp at the crank out a 5.7 liter ls1 either without quite a bit of mods

putting an lsx in a car is not routine. it would be like installing that silicone by starting the process by inserting them through her rectum. trust me, not everyone can do it.


well actually i considered this swap at one time myself after owning a lsx based truck and building it. anybody who frequents lstech could do it pretty easy. other than the modded oil pan and some new motor mounts its pretty simple.

well actually i considered this swap at one time myself after owning a lsx based truck and building it. anybody who frequents lstech could do it pretty easy. other than the modded oil pan and some new motor mounts its pretty simple.

Why didnt you do the swap??

also dont get upset about it its your car

do whatever

also dont get upset about it its your car

do whatever

Dude....I am far from upset...It just always strikes me as funny when people make comments like yours without even having first hand experience. People read magazines and various message boards and think that engine swaps are easy and 9 second time slips fall out of the sky.

I am sure that 562 HP small block Buick was a real treat to drive on the street. Oh wait, you didn't build it, you "saw" it somewhere. Maybe it was Hot Rod magazine doing testing on the Westech dyno?

Andrew

Dude....I am far from upset...It just always strikes me as funny when people make comments like yours without even having first hand experience. People read magazines and various message boards and think that engine swaps are easy and 9 second time slips fall out of the sky.

I am sure that 562 HP small block Buick was a real treat to drive on the street. Oh wait, you didn't build it, you "saw" it somewhere. Maybe it was Hot Rod magazine doing testing on the Westech dyno?

Andrew

i saw it racing at the gs nats smart ass:mad: my car has a nailhead which is what a 66 had originally.

Why didnt you do the swap??

cause i didnt want to rip out a 401 nailhead for it. rare engine and tq monster to boot.

Now thats finished can we go back to talking about the point of this thread. A discussion about a really nice 70 GTO. So, how much horsepower did it put out on the dyno?

Now thats finished can we go back to talking about the point of this thread. A discussion about a really nice 70 GTO. So, how much horsepower did it put out on the dyno?


i agree and if you dont want opinions dont post it

i agree and if you dont want opinions dont post it

Opinions are more than welcome. I am sure you know the saying....:D

Andrew

I'd say 418 RWHP is just shy of 500 Flywheel with a manual tranmission.

Not bad for a stock engine with a factory replacement cam. My old 388 SBC roller engine that had a rough idling cam made no where near that.

I'm sure you'll knock down 20++ on the highway.

Doesn't get much better than all that.

Being around car projects for a long time I can tell you that every build has a few dirty little secrets. Some have more than a few. My project is no different. When I got the car aligned the most caster that we could get was zero degrees. This might be due to frame sag, or who knows what, but thats how it was. This doesn't hurt the handling, per say, but it makes for a less than idea driving car. Without any caster the steering wheel doesn't snap back to center after making a turn. So you actually have to steer it out of a corner. Not the most ideal situation. So I called Mark at SC&C (http://www.scandc.com/) and he convinced me that his adjustable upper control arms are the way to go. I was going to get them at some point later because I want to swap to the AFX spindles, but not seemed like the perfect time.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo68.jpg

The SPC control arms will allow me to dial in more caster while not increasing negative camber, and they will work with the AFX spindles.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo69.jpg

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo70.jpg

When taking everything apart I noticed that my QA1 shocks were leaking and pretty much not working. This is most likely due to the fact that the car sat for a long time. So a new set is on the way and will be here tomorrow. I will send the old ones to get rebuilt and it will be good to have a spare set, just in case.

I am in a bit of a rush because I want to take the car on a road trip to Chicago on Saturday...:clonk:

Andrew

Andrew, if you install the UCA bolts the other way you get more header clearance and also one less thing to bang your knuckles into while working under the hood.

I also drilled my frame out for 1/2" bolts when I put my SPC uppers in, the SPC uppers are already drilled for 1/2" hardware.

You'll notice a big difference from 0 caster to 5.5-6 degrees. Straight line stability will be much better, and the car will handle better too as you'll get camber change (in the correct direction) while cornering.

What spindles are you using with this setup. The lack of caster on my car has been magnified since I change to the GC steering box and I hate having to work to keep the car going straight.

Troy,

I kind of like using the factory studs because you don't need a wrench on the backside. If I keep busting my knuckles on the studs, I will switch over to the 1/2" bolts.

I am using Belltech 2" drop B-body spindles.

Andrew

Andrew, Don't try and reason with the "only the original engine" crowd, it is like teaching a pig to sing.......irratates the pig and wastes your time. I have played the Buick game and can say that I find it really hard to swallow a 500 hp 350 Buick, they just don't make any performance pieces (yes I know about Poston and TA). I bet that Buick was a 455 based engine, and to get 500 HP out of a 5.7 LS series is kind like falling off a log and to top it off the LS will still get high 20's MPG something that Buick or Pontiac will never do at 500 HP. Would a fuel injected Pontiac in a GTO be cool, yeap it sure would and it has been done (local guy has a 455 67 Goat with hand built port injection), but you still will not get 500 HP good MPG and have the amazing driveability of the modern powerplant (close maybe, and I won't even bring up cost), and a 350 Pontiac is a crap engine only the 400 CID up are worth a damn in Pontiacs. It takes alot of work and planning to put any LS series engine in another vehicle, it isn't the "just mounts" that has been suggested. Nekkidhillbilly, a 401 nailhead is even more antique than the Pontiac in a tech so why don't you step up to a 455 Buick and get even more torque, and the only reason it is rare is cause they went to junkyard 40 years ago.

BTW my Pops has a 1969 GTO that is original, would I change it out for an LS series.....maybe, but probably not cause I have a less valueable car that I could do that too. Maybe I can get my original disc brake 1970 GS350 4 sp Buick back and do an LS swap.......hee hee hee.

Yesterday I got the new coilover kit and finished installing the control arms. I used the springs that came with the kit, which were 450 lb/in. In retrospect I should have stuck with the 550s. Oh well.

Here is the final ride height. It's pretty low, probably too low, but it look really good. I am leaving it for now.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo71.jpg

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo72.jpg

This morning I got the car aligned. The show here in town dabbles in circle track racing so they have a very nice Hunter laser alignment rack. We aligned the car with me in it with the following final specs:

Left -.5 camber +5.5 caster
Right -.5 camber +6.0 caster

zero toe

Now here is the cool part. The initial alignment was done with the control arm cross shafts right up against the frame. So with the street alignment settings in place, we did a second alignment using shims. With the shims in place I now have an auto cross alignment with the following specs:

Left -1.5 camber +6.0 caster
Right -1.5 camber +6.5 caster

slight toe out

So now when I got to an event I can take a wrench and in about 5 minutes install my shims for a more aggressive alignment. When I am done, just take them out and drive home on the street alignment.

Andrew

Great idea!

did you set up your driveline angles for that height, or did you drop it after? any solution to the vibration youve been having?

did you set up your driveline angles for that height, or did you drop it after? any solution to the vibration youve been having?

I didn't mess with the rear anymore after messing around with the driveline angles. On the highway I still feel a little something when going over 75 MPH. For now I am going to leave it alone, although I think I will have to raise the back of the transmission some more.

Andrew

So now when I got to an event I can take a wrench and in about 5 minutes install my shims for a more aggressive alignment. When I am done, just take them out and drive home on the street alignment.

Andrew

See? I told you those arms rock balls.

Tyler

See? I told you those arms rock balls.

Tyler

You sure did Tyler. I'm glad I listened to you. I can't wait to swap to the AFX spindle. I need to find a 2nd gen F-body guy to take my spindle and brakes off my hands.

Andrew

Better shot of the stance

http://www.pro-touring.com/%7Eandrewb/gtov2/photo73.jpg

Andrew

btw, i downloaded the vibratesoft program and there math is off a little. it would tell me to raise the pinion x amount, but when i the trig for the driveshaft and then plugged the numbers back in it would tell me my angles wouldnt work. it would also give me the option of lowering the transmission, but would tell me to lower it 0.00"???? its a great program to understand what is happening though and im glad you pointed it out.

awesome stance by the way. how much room btwn your bump stops and your rear axle?

.....

awesome stane by the way. how much room btwn your bump stops and your rear axle?

About 3 inches. It looks lower than it is because the rear tires are 28" tall.

Andrew

one more measurement if you dont mind; what is the distance to the ground from the center of the rear wheelwell?

one more measurement if you dont mind; what is the distance to the ground from the center of the rear wheelwell?

26"

Andrew

Andrew, it's looking good. Sounds like a blast to drive, I can't believe how quickly you've moved.

What size are those tires? 28" fits the wheel wells great, but I can't find wide tires at that height.

Skip

Andrew, it's looking good. Sounds like a blast to drive, I can't believe how quickly you've moved.

What size are those tires? 28" fits the wheel wells great, but I can't find wide tires at that height.

Skip

Thanks Skip. The rear tires are 295/45-18.

On Saturday morning I headed out towards Chicago. My journey started out on a beautiful, sunny morning. The temperature in Bowling Green was in the low 70s at 7:30am and it looked like the perfect day for a road trip. I was making good time but that quickly changed when I got to about 50 miles south of Indianapolis. The forecast called for thunderstorms but I had no idea what as about to hit. Keep in mind that up until this point my car has never been driven in the rain.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo74.jpg

Notice the large hole in my hood, later to be filled again by my shaker. i really wasn't worried about the engine getting wet, because I have hosed down the LS6 in my RX7 many times and it has never complained. All of the connectors are water tight so a little water on the intake won't hurt.

In this next picture the rain line can actually be seen. See how the pavement in front of me is dry, but just up ahead the semi going in the other direction has the giant rooster tail of water behind it. The sky was about to open up on me.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo75.jpg

The rain was unbelievable. With the wind gusting, it was actually raining sideways.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo76.jpg

Then as if it wasn't raining hard enough, it started coming down in sheets.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo77.jpg

More dirty little secrets about my car. It seems that it is not entirely water tight. After about 20 minutes of driving in the rain I noticed that both the driver's and passenger side carpet was soaking wet. I am not talking about just damp, but sopping wet. I suspected that the water was coming down the cowl and getting inside through the kick panel area. A few days ago I discovered that to be exactly the case. No names will get mentioned, but the passenger side cowl vent panel was installed by the same shop that installed my Vintage Air system. The panel where the hoses come through wasn't sealed against the body at all. Like I said before, the reputation of the shop doesn't mean s**t. It all boils down to that guy, making 15 bucks an hour, wrenching on the car.

In about a week I am going to drive the car from Chicago to Colorado for my (cough....cough...) 20th high school reunion.

Andrew

Wow that is some rain, LOL. Hate to hear about the water intrusion into your cabin, but at least it didn't drown the engine. What are your plans for the Shaker? Are you going to try and incorporate it into the LS engine? Maybe use it as a cold air intake.

........ Are you going to try and incorporate it into the LS engine? Maybe use it as a cold air intake.

Yes Sir!

Andrew

That will be interesting. We want lots of pictures of the progress.

You had mentioned in your pro-touring thread that you were going to come up with some sort of rear suspension limiters...did you ever do it? Just wondering which way you went with it or if it has even turned out to be a problem. I'm running a moser 12 bolt with short springs that come lose under full droop but with the moser spring pads it is tough to clamp the bottom spring coil like others have done on stock housings.

Car look great by the way!

You had mentioned in your pro-touring thread that you were going to come up with some sort of rear suspension limiters...did you ever do it? Just wondering which way you went with it or if it has even turned out to be a problem. I'm running a moser 12 bolt with short springs that come lose under full droop but with the moser spring pads it is tough to clamp the bottom spring coil like others have done on stock housings.

Car look great by the way!

I was all ready to make some straps using some coated stainless cable, when I laid my eyes on some axles straps that I use when I trailer my car. These straps are 2" wide made out of woven nylon. You know, the kind you throw over the rear axle, with loops on either end. I took the strap and held it up where the shock mounts, just to see if the length was close. As it turned out, it was perfect. I took the shock off the frame and slipped one loop over the T-bar at the top of the shock. On the bottom I slipped the loop of the strap on the shock stud, sandwiching it between the shock and rear end housing. When the axle goes into droop, the straps limit the travel so that the springs have about 1" of pre-load. Sometime I get lucky.

Andrew

Congratulations on a well put together car that handles most of what mother nature can throw at it. :D Sorry to hear about the panels not being sealed and the carpet getting wet.

Hope you have a good trip to CO. That's a great car to take a road trip in. :yes:

Dunno if you already knew about this but yearone is building the new BAN1 Burt Reynolds edition trans ams, and one of the engine options is an LS7. So they have devoloped some sort of fiberglass box it looks like that takes advantage of the shaker hood. Hope that helps some.

Dunno if you already knew about this but yearone is building the new BAN1 Burt Reynolds edition trans ams, and one of the engine options is an LS7. So they have devoloped some sort of fiberglass box it looks like that takes advantage of the shaker hood. Hope that helps some.

My setup will be very similar to the Year One Bandit cars.

Andrew

Did you check your gas mileage on the trip?

Did you check your gas mileage on the trip?

I am keeping track of total mileage and total gas usage. Once I get home I will post the results.

Andrew

Yesterday and today were two very exciting days. Monday morning I showed by to Schwartz Extreme Performance (http://www.schwartzperformance.com/) in Crystal Lake, Illinois. Jeff Schwartz and his crew were waiting for me so they can begin to adapt my shaker scoop to the new engine. One of Jeff's fabricators, Ken, was responsible for the project.

After looking things over and mocking up my old shaker base it as decided that a whole new base would need to be made. So Ken rolled a new base and bottom.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo78.JPG

The only part of my old base that was reused was the upper lip that attached to the shaker top.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo79.JPG

Ken also fabricated another piece that was welded to the inside of the base and held the air filter element. I picked this filter element because it is as large as the base will allow. The filter is also rather thick which gives it more area for better flow. It also happened to be in stock at the local AutoZone, which means I can get a replacement just about anywhere.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo80.JPG

Another one of Jeff's fabricators, Kyle, helped out with the TIG welding of the 4" pipe that connected the base and the throttle body.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo81.JPG

Today everything was starting to take shape. The MAF was mounted inside the pipe towards the the top, just after the rubber coupler.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo82.JPG

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo83.JPG

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo84.JPG

Tomorrow morning I am heading out to Colorado. I will be stopping in Lincoln, NE to visit my friend Brian. Brian did the body and paint on my GTO. We will smooth out all the welds on the base and paint everything a semi-gloss black. Thanks again to the crew at Schwartz Extreme Performance for a job well done!

Andrew

Andrew,

Looks awesome :beers:

Andrew,

That looks very nice! I haven't done much with MAF's, but do you think you have long enough sections of tubing before and after the MAF? Just curious for my own good.

Ryan

Andrew, don't mean to nitpick, but I believe the air filter is flipped from the "normal" OEM orientation. I believe the open pleated side of the filter faces the incoming air and the wire mesh side faces the TB. This is how I've seen all OEM flat panel air filters installed, domestic and import. I believe this is to prevent the air filter from "sucking in" and the pleats unfolding under lots of airflow, especially once some dirt gets on the filter and the pressure drop increases.

What holds the air filter to the upper plate? Any chance you could flip the filter over?

Looks cool though and very functional.

Andrew, don't mean to nitpick, but I believe the air filter is flipped from the "normal" OEM orientation. I believe the open pleated side of the filter faces the incoming air and the wire mesh side faces the TB. This is how I've seen all OEM flat panel air filters installed, domestic and import. I believe this is to prevent the air filter from "sucking in" and the pleats unfolding under lots of airflow, especially once some dirt gets on the filter and the pressure drop increases.

What holds the air filter to the upper plate? Any chance you could flip the filter over?

Looks cool though and very functional.

Troy,

You are correct, but its too late now. I guess we didn't realize that the filter actually goes the other way. Other than the problem that you mentioned above I really don't think it matters in terms of airflow. I did flip the filter the other way to see if it might fit, but there is no way. The filter element is just too deep and when it is flipped the other way the shaker hits it. For now I am not going going to worry about it. Eventually I will get a K&N filter for it and that should solve the problem.

Today I also swapped to the 550 lb/in springs. The 450s were just too soft and the car was sat too low.

Anderw

I too, would be concerned with the filter configuration. As the filter loads, it becomes more efficient and your differential pressure will increase. I wouldn't feel comfortable with the filter under a full throttle/max flow demand situation.

Is there any way to modify the housing to install a mesh/expanded metal basket in it to prevent a potential filter failure?

Is there any way to modify the housing to install a mesh/expanded metal basket in it to prevent a potential filter failure?

That is an excellent and simple solution.

Can You post a picture of the Hood, with the shaker mounted? I'd love to see that.:yes:

I just spent the better part of an hour reading, and re-reading this thread.......AWESOME!:thumbsup:

Given the current, and future Gas price's, I'm heading in the direction of the LS1 swap, but a more basic (cheaper) swap.:D


Seeing the like's of what You and Scotty, are doing, I Just gotta make My velle more street friendly, and dump the 468 into a Nova, for the track.

I love the shaker on there. I was hoping you`d keep it with the LSX motor.
I still have a left over early shaker from one of my TransAms hanging on the wall in the shop. It`s been hanging out there for the least 18 years or so just waiting for me to put it on something. Some day when I find the right project... ;) Mark SC&C

Troy,

Do you think that I can just change the filter element frequently to avoid the potential problem that you described?

Mark,

The front suspension is working very well with the new upper control arms. Since driving the car I can definitely tfeel the bump steer that you mentioned. I can't wait to put some ATS spindles on this thing.

My road trip is going pretty well. The car is running great and it is really a blast to be driving it all over the place. I put about 1800 miles on the car since I left Kentucky. Here is a shot of the car taken in Laramie, WY after being cleaned up a little bit.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo86.jpg

Andrew

It's great that your having a good run. Kinda like your own private Power Tour. Thanks for posting updates as it keeps us guy's with non running cars motivated :thumbsup:

Nice! :thumbsup:


Was the shaker an option on a 70 GTO?

Nice! :thumbsup:


Was the shaker an option on a 70 GTO?

No. The only GTOs that ever came with shakers were the 1974 models. 1974 was the last year for the GTO option.

Andrew

That's what I thought, Nice mod, I like it when Guy's do something different.:thumbsup:

My Brother had a nice 68 Ram air car. Wish He still had it, I love that body style too.:yes:

Oh the memories of Laramie. When I went to WyoTech we had a different way of saying Wyoming. We used to call it "Why-am-I-here-Oming."

Don't miss that town even a little bit.

Tyler

I finally made it home to Bowling Green on Monday night. What a trip. I drove a combined total of about 3600 miles and got just under 20 mpg combined city and highway. I am sure that on some tanks I was getting 23-24 on the highway and in the city it was probably 16-17. Keep in mind that I wasn't driving with economy in mind. I was going 80-85 mph on the highway most of the time.

Today I gave the car some much needed TLC. It got a thorough cleaning, followed by some minor swirl mark removal, and a wax. I also went through some of the pictures that I took.

Here is a shot of the shaker from inside the car. This picture was taken in Iowa on the way to my stop in Lincoln, Nebraska.

http://www.pro-touring.com/%7Eandrewb/gtov2/photo87.jpg

As I was pulling into Lincoln Nebraska, I could see some very interesting weather brewing to the west. Here are a couple of shots that were taken just as the sun was setting in the west. The clouds were truly spectacular and fortunately nothing came of it except a thunder storm.

http://www.pro-touring.com/%7Eandrewb/gtov2/photo88.jpg

http://www.pro-touring.com/%7Eandrewb/gtov2/photo89.jpg

I might have mentioned it before, but the next morning I installed the 550 lb/in springs that I got from Speedway Motors. I also cleaned approximately 1.2 million bugs off the front of the car and washed it down.

http://www.pro-touring.com/%7Eandrewb/gtov2/photo90.jpg

The following morning I headed west to Wyoming. This shot was taken in western Nebraska. I just thought it looked neat.

http://www.pro-touring.com/%7Eandrewb/gtov2/photo91.jpg

On the morning of Saturday, June 21st, my friend Rory and I headed to Estes Park, Colorado for our 20th high school reunion. Rory has been a great friend since I was 15 and he is one of very few people who I will let drive my car. I think he misses having a running hot rod.

http://www.pro-touring.com/%7Eandrewb/gtov2/photo92.jpg

The drive from Laramie, WY to Estes Park, CO is very nice. We took 287 down to Ft. Collins and then on to Love Land. From Love Land we picked up highway 34 which winds through the mountains, along the Big Thompson river, up to Estes Park. This section of the canyon is called the "narrows."

http://www.pro-touring.com/%7Eandrewb/gtov2/photo93.jpg

During the summer months the road to Estes Park is filled with tourists and most of them barely go the posted 45 mph speed limit. Having lived in this area when I got my driver's license it is easy to see how I would be attracted to the pro-touring build style. There aren't too many straight roads in Estes Park and we always used to haul ass up and down both this canyon and the canyon that follows highway 36 from Estes Park down to Boulder. Good times!

Andrew

great pics andrew!

:thumbsup:Nice!

Thanks for the kind words guys.

Some of you have asked how the shaker assembly is held to the engine. Here is how:

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo94.jpg

The tabs on the bottom of the base are shaped just like the tabs on LS7 coil covers. The grommets are available separately at your local Chevrolet dealership for under $3. At first I was a little concerned that the brackets would wear through the rubber from the vibration, but after 3600 miles everything looks good.

Andrew

Yesterday I spent some time cleaning up the welds on the air intake tube and on the base. I gave it two coats of rattle can primer, follow by two coats of satin black. Turned out pretty good. I could have spent more time smoothing the welds but I am happy with the way it turned out.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo95.jpg

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo96.jpg

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo97.jpg

Andrew

One of the things that I really want to do before RTTH (Run through the Hills) in September is to give the wheels a makeover. I have 3 piece Kinesis wheels that can be taken apart. The great thing about being able to take the wheels apart is that it makes it very easy to clean them or give them a new look. Here is the wheel taken off the car:

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo99.jpg

The outer lips were once polished but have since dulled. Not very pretty at all. The centers look OK but I want a slightly different look. There are 40 bolt around the circumference of the wheel. Once the bolts are taken out, the center separates from the inner and outer rim.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo100.jpg

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo101.jpg

The wheels get very dirty on the inside from driving. Don't ask me how this happens, but there were actually dead bugs stuck to the inside rim. Here is a dirty rim:

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo102.jpg

Here is a rim after some time with Purple Power and a red scotch brite pad:

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo103.jpg

I am going to clean up all of the inside rims and paint them silver. The pain will make clean up much easier. The outer rims will get re-polished for a nice, bright finish. The centers are going to get hard anodized and Teflon coated for extra durability.

I also measured the front wheels for the C6 ZO6 brakes that I have coming from Kore3. It's close, but it will clear.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo98.jpg

Andrew

those c6z brakes will be killer. i just got my pb setup from tobin and have mocked them up. theyre bitchin!!!

New tires should be here first part of next week. I decided to go with the Falken Azenis RT-615 tires. The tires will be slightly shorter both in the back and in the front. In the back I will be running 295/40-18 and in the front I will have 255/40-18s. So the rear tires are a hair over 27 inches tall and the fronts are right at 26 inches tall.

The Nittos were good tires and had plenty of tread but it was time for a change. They were pretty old. The date code on the tires was from 2002.

Andrew

The rear Falkens showed up today.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo108.jpg

I am also getting a good handle on the vibration that I have been having above 75 mph. I have narrowed it all down to insufficient engagement between the output shaft and the slip yoke. The lack of engagement is allowing enough up and down movement of the yoke to cause a vibration. I got a new Strange Engineering slip yoke and tomorrow I am having a new driveshaft made that will slide the slip yoke further inside the transmission. There are some pictures and more discussion on the subject here:

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=232582

Andrew

I am also getting a good handle on the vibration that I have been having above 75 mph. I have narrowed it all down to insufficient engagement between the output shaft and the slip yoke. The lack of engagement is allowing enough up and down movement of the yoke to cause a vibration. I got a new Strange Engineering slip yoke and tomorrow I am having a new driveshaft made that will slide the slip yoke further inside the transmission. There are some pictures and more discussion on the subject here:

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=232582

Andrew

Im curious to see how the yoke engagement affects your vibes. I also have a vibe above 75 on my TKO600 and I suspect I specified a driveshaft about 1/2" to 3/4" too short.

Im curious to see how the yoke engagement affects your vibes. I also have a vibe above 75 on my TKO600 and I suspect I specified a driveshaft about 1/2" to 3/4" too short.

Unfortunately the car won't be on the road for another 2 weeks or so, but I will make sure to post up my results. I would get under the car and see how much lateral deflection is felt in your yoke. Also rule out driveline angles before spending the money for a new driveshaft. My Richmond tucks up much higher inside the tunnel than a TKO and if your car is lowered I suspect you might have a driveline angle issue as well.

Andrew

I was fighting a highway speed vibration on my lowered Chevelle. Got the driveline angles correct, but it was still there. I also suspected the driveshaft was too short as I did not have enough yoke engagement. I ordered a new high speed balanced shaft from a local (suburban Chicago) shop that was a bit longer. Made a HUGE improvement.

Gary

I was fighting a highway speed vibration on my lowered Chevelle. Got the driveline angles correct, but it was still there. I also suspected the driveshaft was too short as I did not have enough yoke engagement. I ordered a new high speed balanced shaft from a local (suburban Chicago) shop that was a bit longer. Made a HUGE improvement.

Gary

Gary,

The driveshaft that I have in the car now was made by Suburban Driveshaft in Villa Park on North Ave. I used to live in West Chicago. :thumbsup:

Andrew

Some people have asked me to elaborate more on the driveshaft issue. Here is what the driveshaft looked like when installed into the transmission:

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo104.jpg

By the looks of it most people would say that it looks OK. I thought so too. Here is what it looked like "inside."

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo106.jpg

The seal sits at the edge of the shiny part of the yoke. The bushing is about 13/16" from the seal. My yoke was cut down some in order for it not to hit the speedometer gear. The gear is located exactly 3.5" from the end of the output shaft. My yoke as cut too much I think:

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo107.jpg

This is what it looked like with the driveshaft installed and the tailshaft housing removed. You can see there is plenty of room before the yoke hits the speedometer gear. I also wanted to see just how much the slip yoke actually moves with suspension travel. That is what the zip tie is for. I placed it firmly against the edge of the yoke and moved the car through about 7-8" of suspension travel. 3-4" up and 3-4" down. That is as far as the yoke moved. A whopping 1/8"!!!

So my new driveshaft will position my slip yoke much closer to the seal and it will give me barely enough room to install the driveshaft. I also installed 2 tailshaft bushings.

Andrew

This morning I took my slip yoke to Precision Driveline in Glasgow, KY. This is a one man operation and Terry was kind enough to let me snap some pictures while he made a new driveshaft.

The first thing that Terry did was slide my old driveshaft into a big lathe and cut off the old weld yokes. This was not nearly as dramatic as I thought it might be.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo109.jpg

I made some very careful measurements last night and the slip yoke needed to be trimmed just a little bit. Interestingly enough, the Strange yoke didn't have splines cut in it for the first 3/4" or so. According to my measurements that whole section without the splines needed to be trimmed off. Terry had a CNC Bridgeport that he used to mill the yoke.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo110.jpg

After the yoke was trimmed a new Neapco solid u-joint was mated to the weld yoke.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo111.jpg

Terry then measured and cut the tube, assembling it on his fixture, making sure that the ends of the shaft are indexed correctly.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo112.jpg

Once he was happy with the alignment and the straightness of the tube is was time to MIG weld the yokes to the tube.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo113.jpg

After the yokes were welded Terry allowed the shaft to cool down before balancing it. Here is the new finished shaft.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo114.jpg

The careful measuring really paid off. I was able to slide the slip yoke inside the transmission and the rear u-joint BARELY slipped into the pinion yoke. This is about as long as the driveshaft can be without being TOO long.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo115.jpg

After the driveshaft was installed there was no more noticeable lateral movement at the slip yoke. I don't know if this was my sole source of the driveline vibration, but I am 100% sure it was a contributing factor. I will know for sure once the car is back on the road in a couple of weeks.

Andrew

Here are the Falkens compared to the Nitto 555s. The Nitto 295/45 is about an inch bigger in diameter than the 295/40 Falken. This will translate to about a 1/2" drop in ride height, which is no big deal.


http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo116.jpg

The more interesting part is that the Falkens have just over an inch more actual tread width! The advertised section width on the Falkens are stated to be about .4" wider than the Nittos. I can't wait to see how these tires work.


http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo117.jpg

Andrew

Today I got my ATS spindles:


http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo118.jpg

ATS did an awesome job of packaging the spindles for safe shipping. I ordered mine with some new billet steel hubs from Vansteel. These use a tapered bearing design that is more durable and I also got the optional GM Racing wheel studs. These hubs are assemblies are being used on SCCA World Challenge cars with great success.

Before taking my spindles off I wanted to test for myself the bump steer that everyone has talked about with the b-body swap. I certainly felt it on my road trip. So I got my dial indicator out and attached the base to the frame and positioned the tip against the rotor. I made sure the rotor had a couple lug nuts on it to keep it steady.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo120.jpg

This was a very limited test because I did not take the coilover off and run the suspension through its full range of travel. However, I was able to measure the bump steer from approximately ride height through 1.5" of travel in rebound. Here are the numbers.

Ride height-------dial indicator set to zero
1/2" rebound-----.1" toe in
1" rebound-------.2" toe in
1.5" rebound-----.320" toe in

I am no suspension expert, but I am pretty sure the above numbers suck ass. Once my brakes are here, I will do the same test with the ATS spindles installed.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo119.jpg

On a side note, since the rear end was on jack stands I wanted to see if my vibration was gone. I started the engine, ran it up in 5th gear (1:1) and at about 3200 RPM I am still getting that buzzing vibration. I messed around with the pinion angle and nothing made any difference. I finally put a dial indicator on the driveshaft at the rear to measure the run-out. I watched Terry do this on his fixture and I knew the shaft was within .002". To my surprise I saw .038" on the dial indicator. I suspect that my pinion yoke is off. This is driving me insane. Tomorrow I may try the old "hang big hose clamps on the driveshaft test."

I am open to suggestions. :/

Andrew

To my surprise I saw .038" on the dial indicator. I suspect that my pinion yoke is off.

Are you using a Moser yoke by any chance? They shipped out a bunch a couple of years ago with excessive runout.

Are you using a Moser yoke by any chance? They shipped out a bunch a couple of years ago with excessive runout.

It's just a no name 1330 yoke. I am running out of ideas :/

Andrew

I got the wheel centers back today and they look pretty amazing.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo121.jpg

I should have the polished rims tomorrow and then I can start on assembling the wheels.

During a recent trip to Chicago I stopped by The Parts Place and picked up a new pinion yoke. After installing it, I measured the run out and it was .004", quite a bit less than the run out on the other yoke which was about .040". I ran it up to speed on the jackstands and it was very smooth in 5th gear (1:1) all the way up to 4500 RPM. It still vibrated a little in 6th, but I think most of that is due to the fact that there is no load on the driveline. I am going to leave it for now and see how it feels going down the road.

The brakes should be here next week, then I can be back on the road.

Andrew

At 4pm this afternoon I showed up at the polisher's place and the wheels were done, as promised. I have to admit the results were better than I imagined. This guy is simply amazing. His name is Jeff Smith and it turns out he did all of the brushed aluminum work on Bob Johnson's Cuda. I am pretty sure that they weren't this nice when I first got the wheels. I got them home, masked off the front, and spray painted the inner hoop silver. I figured that having a painted inner rim will be easier to clean than a plain aluminum one. After painting I applied a generous coating of wax to the polished surface to seal them a little bit. After that it was time to assemble the wheels. I lined up the center according to the marks that I made before taking the wheels apart. This way the wheels go together exactly the same way with the center going back to its rim. I used a little anti-seize on the splined section of the bolts and drove them through the center and the rim. Then I flipped the wheel over and started torquing the nuts in a star pattern. It took about 2 hours to do one wheel but the results were well worth it. It's like a brand new wheel!

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo122.jpg

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo123.jpg

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo124.jpg

The little notch marks on the back are to keep track of the torque sequence. With 40 nuts to tighten, it is very easy to loose your place.

Andrew

Today I assembled the rest of the wheels and had the tires mounted. I am very impressed with the Falken tires. Neither front wheels needed any weight. One rear tire needed .75 oz while the other balanced with only .50 oz. That is very impressive considering the size of the tires.

Andrew

Teaser shot of the wheels on the car.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo125.jpg

Andrew

Normally I dont like rims with bolts, but I'm dying to see these on the car with the black centers.

Simply wow, Andrew!

Must...not....get......jealous.............

And I only thought you were called Andrew! when people are mad at you and Andy when they are pleased with you! l:)

Simply wow, Andrew!

Must...not....get......jealous.............

Nothing to be jealous about. It's just a car.

Andrew

Nothing to be jealous about. It's just a car.

Andrew

Good point! I just miss my Elky. But don't worry, I don't dislike you...:D

Keep up the good work!

Ryan

Good point! I just miss my Elky. But don't worry, I don't dislike you...:D

Keep up the good work!

Ryan

Why would I worry, even if you did dislike me? Although you have no reason to, since you don't even know me. LOL

Look for more updates around the 18th.

Andrew

This morning I got my brake components from Kore3 (http://www.kore3.com). Tobin at Kore3 has outstanding customer service and I am very pleased with the parts. I got C6 Z06 calipers, 14" DBA 4000 rotors, and Hawk HP Plus pads.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo126.jpg

More pictures to come.

Andrew

should look stunning with those black centers and the red corvette caliper behind. can't wait to see a picture

what made you go with the hp plus pads? ive heard the plus are way too harsh for street use and the hps are the way to go.

what made you go with the hp plus pads? ive heard the plus are way too harsh for street use and the hps are the way to go.

Sorry. They are HPS pads.


I drove it again this evening. In the morning I am going to get an alignment. The C6 Z06 brakes are very nice. I really like how the ATS spindles work with the OEM style brakes. Everything bolted together beautifully.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo127.jpg

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo128.jpg

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo129.jpg

The car is sitting a little higher in the front now. This is due to the fact that my old spindles had a 2 inch drop compared to stock. I believe the ATS spindles are about an inch lower than stock. I was going to lower it, but I think I am going to keep it this way. It's nice not having to worry about any sort of rubbing with the tires. I also think that the springs will settle some over the winter.

Andrew

yes if you have new springs just give it a month or so to think about dropping it anymore. still looks great. It would probably be the perfect stance 1 inch lower in the front if thats how its going to stay, but heck... go enjoy that thing.

amazing!!!!!! those rotors look much better than i would have thought. ive been searching for a d/s, but i think i just made up my mind.

amazing!!!!!! those rotors look much better than i would have thought. ive been searching for a d/s, but i think i just made up my mind.

I plan to hammer on these brakes hard, so I need a rotor that isn't going to cost a lot of money. The DBA rotors are only slightly more than the OEM rotors, and I prefer the slotted vs. drilled. People forget that rotors are wear items. I personally won't do a brake job without replacing the rotors.

Andrew

Andrew,

Looks killer! The 40 series profile tire's look great. Would love to see a straight side view and one from the rear when you get around to taking more pics. I may change to those if/ when I can spring for some CCW wheels.

Look very good Andrew, but you already know my opinion: at least 1" lower front and back.

It would look cooler IMO but I hear you on how nice it feels not having to worry about scraping.

Look very good Andrew, but you already know my opinion: at least 1" lower front and back.

It would look cooler IMO but I hear you on how nice it feels not having to worry about scraping.

Troy,

I think it would look better, lower, but I am going to leave it for a now. The front lower control arms have a very slight downward angle from the crossmember to the wheels, which from what I understand is ideal from a geometry standpoint. Maybe next spring I will go a little lower.

I also want to let you know that my vibration is almost gone. There is still a little "something" around 75 mph, but as I go faster it gets less noticeable. I would bet that if I had a T56, I would not be having these issues.

Andrew

refresh my memory; which tranny are you running? just curious, but why would the t56 change your vibration issue?

Tim

refresh my memory; which tranny are you running? just curious, but why would the t56 change your vibration issue?

Tim

Tim,

I am using a Richmond 6spd. I just feel that even with my careful setup of the slip yoke for some reason there is still more play than "normal." I have a T56 sitting in the garage with a slip yoke. Even 2" of engagement makes the slip yoke firm on the output shaft of the T56.

Andrew

I measured the distance from the ground to the headers and right now it is 5". While the car would look a little better lowered, I think it is important to keep the car as practical as possible, without the danger of hurting parts. So for now, it will stay where it is.

Today I did a little project that I have been neglecting to do. Many of you have asked me what I am doing to retain the axle in rebound. To recap, I am using short 9.5" springs in the rear. The problem is that when the axle drops, the springs get unloaded. This is not a good situation. And while the odds of getting the car air borne are fairly slim, if it were to happen it might be catastrophic. The other issue is that the single pigtail springs do not seat really well in the upper spring pocket.

I picked these up on eBay for $20 shipped:

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo130.jpg

They are rubber spring isolators from a 4th gen F-body. They fit the single pigtail springs perfectly:

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo131.jpg

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo132.jpg

The rubber spring isolators fit perfectly into the upper spring pocket on the a-bodies.

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo133.jpg

Here is what I did to keep the axle from dropping too far. I took a 2" nylon axle strap. It used these to loop over the rear axle when I was towing the car. At the top I attached one end to the T-bar of the upper shock mount:

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo134.jpg

At the bottom I looped the loop around the shock mount stud:

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo135.jpg

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo136.jpg

When the axle drops and hangs by the straps, the springs are still compressed about 1". This will keep them safely in place in case I want to do some Dukes of Hazzard maneuvers. :screwy:

Andrew

Yesterday I took the car to get the corner weight set and to make sure that my front sway bar was installed in such a way that it was not pre-loading the suspension. I took my car to Nashville, to Earl Owens Chassis. If anyone in that area needs any kind of fabrication or setup help, Earl knows his stuff.

Here are the new corner weights:

--LF------------------RF
1094-----------------1044



--LR-----------------RR
968-----------------913

This is with driver of similar weight to me.

Total: 4019 lbs
Distribution: 53.2 Front / 46.8% rear

Cross weight 50%

This was done with the front sway bar disconnected. Minor adjustments were needed on the drivers side rear spring jack to get the cross weight to 50%. Once the weights were adjusted I installed the sway bar in such a way that it did not alter any of the corner weights. I know that the sway bar was preloading the suspension fairly heavily before. This was evident by the fact that when I made right turns, the car would handle very neutral. There was just a hint of understeer that was easily controlled with the throttle. When making left turns the car would push much harder and the understeer was less controllable with the throttle.
Now the car handles the same way whether I am making left or right turns.

After installing the AFX spindles, I had to get the car aligned again. I decided to add just a hair more negative camber.

-.7* camber
5.5* caster ( little more on the right)
0 toe

The handling is very neutral. There is just a hint of understeer that is easily modulated with the throttle. The biggest difference is going over bumps, especially when just one wheel hits a bump. Before, the car would dart and wander. I have no doubt that this was cause by the bump steer due to the b-body spindle swap. With the AFX spindles all of that is gone. The car tracks straight as an arrow when going over bumps. There is a slight tendency to track along the grooves in the road, but I attribute that to the shorter sidewall on the new tires.

Andrew

An A-body with awesome balance and power. Now if Car Craft would do the Real Street again....huh Andrew?

An A-body with awesome balance and power. Now if Car Craft would do the Real Street again....huh Andrew?

I think I would get killed again in RSE..LOL The year after I won (2003) the cars got nuts. The winner in 2004 ran low 10s.

I am looking forward to the Run Through The Hills IV event this year. There will be a little competition there, although I don't think I have a chance. It should be fun however.

Andrew

Tonight I decided to take the car to the drag strip to see how my new tires worked. I got to the track, did my burn out. The car pulled hard out of the hole. I was able to launch it from about 3000 RPM, slipping the clutch a little, no tire spin. On the 1-2 shift, it felt like I missed second. No big deal. I aborted the run. Stepped on the clutch and got nothing. No pressure at all. Straight to the floor. I matched the RPM and got the car into 3rd gear and drove back to the pits. Looked under the car and saw a nice little stream of fluid coming from the bellhousing. So the hydraulic TOB puked.

I now have less than 9 days until RTTH IV. I need to order a rebuild kit. I may even order a new TOB. I am not looking forward to spending the weekend on my back, but it's better that this happened now and now a week from now.

Andrew

I think I would get killed again in RSE..LOL The year after I won (2003) the cars got nuts. The winner in 2004 ran low 10s.

I am looking forward to the Run Through The Hills IV event this year. There will be a little competition there, although I don't think I have a chance. It should be fun however.

Andrew

Nothing a bit of oxide couldn't take of...........snicker

Ouch, that does suck. Was it a new tob?

Good luck.

Ouch, that does suck. Was it a new tob?

Good luck.

It was a new Quarter Master TOB. If the problem is that I over traveled it I will be able to see it on the seal. The seal will be cut. If the problem is the seal going flat, that will be obvious as well. I may get the Howe TOB because it is advertised as having a longer stroke. This will give me some extra piece of mind.

Andrew

No mystery here:

http://www.pro-touring.com/~andrewb/gtov2/photo137.jpg

Based on the cut in the o-ring the problem was over traveling the bearing. I guess the excitement of drag racing made me press on the clutch pedal just a little bit more than when I drive around town. I will do some more investigating and see if I can limit the movement of the pedal and still get enough travel at the bearing to release the clutch.

Stay tuned for more.

Andrew

Andrew, I suggest you do as I did... install a clutch pedal stop on the floor. There are some stiffening ribs in the firewall behind the plastic "toe panel" behind the pedals, you can drill a hole in the firewall there and install an adjustable clutch stop bumper using threaded rod, some hardware, and a threaded rubber bumper. Use a holesaw to cut a hole in the toe panel for the bumper to poke through.

I also put a small 1/4" thick aluminum plate (maybe 2.5" x 2.5") on the interior side of the car to reinforce things a bit for the clutch stop, it sits against the firewall and has a hole in it for the threaded rod to pass through. Then put a washer and nut on the engine side of the firewall.

After that, shove away on the clutch pedal as much as you want. :p

Looks like the TOB is pretty easy to service.

How do you like the LS7 clutch so far? How is the vibe issue?

Andrew, I suggest you do as I did... install a clutch pedal stop on the floor. There are some stiffening ribs in the firewall behind the plastic "toe panel" behind the pedals, you can drill a hole in the firewall there and install an adjustable clutch stop bumper using threaded rod, some hardware, and a threaded rubber bumper. Use a holesaw to cut a hole in the toe panel for the bumper to poke through.

I also put a small 1/4" thick aluminum plate (maybe 2.5" x 2.5") on the interior side of the car to reinforce things a bit for the clutch stop, it sits against the firewall and has a hole in it for the threaded rod to pass through. Then put a washer and nut on the engine side of the firewall.

After that, shove away on the clutch pedal as much as you want. :p

Troy,

No doubt your way the proper way, but I did the lazy man way. I shortened the rod between the pedal and the MC. The floor is acting as the pedal stop but I reduced the amount of MC stroke by shortening the rod. Even with the reduced stroke the clutch was releasing nicely so I am sure that I had excessive TOB travel.

The LS7 clutch is very nice. It is super smooth and quiet. Like you would expect a stock clutch to be. The is no chugging, jerking, lunging, any of that non-sense.

Andrew

Andrew, I only installed the bumpstop because I didn't like whacking the plastic toe board with the clutch, it was acting as the downstop. I figured I should rig up a "real" stop before I cracked or broke the plastic toe board!

Andrew, I only installed the bumpstop because I didn't like whacking the plastic toe board with the clutch, it was acting as the downstop. I figured I should rig up a "real" stop before I cracked or broke the plastic toe board!

That certainly makes sense. When I finished the car I never installed the plastic toe board, so it's not a big deal to put the pedal to the floor.

I really hope this doesn't happen again. It's kind of a pain in the ass.

Andrew

Here is a link to some pictures from last weekend's Run Through The Hills IV event. Good times!

Run Through the Hills pictures (http://www.flickr.com/photos/trapin/)

Andrew

Andrew,

I read some of the posts and this event sounds great. Maybe next year I will jump on a plane to see it. BTW your car looks killer!

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3020/2864533798_ceef8b6e52_b.jpg

Thanks Tom,

There is talk of having another event in Michigan on Memorial Day weekend, next year. I am going to do my best to make that event.

Andrew

What did it end up running on the strip?

What did it end up running on the strip?

It was only an 1/8th mile track and I didn't really want to beat on the car since I had a 300 mile drive home.

I only ran 3 times and my best was 8.54 @ 85.79 MPH 2.033 60' time

Andrew

I really need to go to RTTH one of these years. That looks like a lot of fun!

Or, they need to have one out this direction as they are hinting at doing...

I really need to go to RTTH one of these years. That looks like a lot of fun!

Or, they need to have one out this direction as they are hinting at doing...

I really hope that Bill Howell will be able to start putting on these kinds of events all around the country. There are now plans for an event in Michigan on Memorial Day weekend. Road racing at Gingerman and drag racing at US131.

Andrew

Did you just move to Chicago? I just noticed your info and was always under the impression you lived some where else.

Did you just move to Chicago? I just noticed your info and was always under the impression you lived some where else.

I actually live in Bowling Green, KY now, but I used to live in the Chicago area.

Andrew

I took the car to the track this Saturday. The weather was awesome. Clear skies, dry, and high 60s. I only made 3 passes because my time was limited and there were a ton of people at the track. All passes were made without fooling around with tire pressure or shock settings. Drove it right off the street, into the staging lanes. My first pass netted the best MPH to date; 112.31 MPH. The second pass netted a my best ET to date:

60' 2.064
1/4 12.602
MPH 110.97

This is my last trip to the track for this year and I am very pleased.

Andrew

Here is a video clip that was made by Brian Finch. Thanks Brian!

RTTH Video (http://hotrodtransformations.com/AndrewB70%20RTTHIV.wmv)

Please right click and save to your local drive.

Andrew

Normally I'd say ditch the Tool but you can't hear those mufflers anyways;) What kind of cars did your auto-x times compare too?

Normally I'd say ditch the Tool but you can't hear those mufflers anyways;) What kind of cars did your auto-x times compare too?

I didn't make the video, so I had no creative control. :D

My quiet exhaust keeps me from going nuts on the highway.

I was off about a second from being in the top 5.

Andrew

Cool video, better without the music. :)

Car looks killer going through the course!