I heard on a sports radio show that Carl Edwards was fined 100 points, Jack Rousch was fined 100 points and the crew chief was fined $100,000.00 for the oil tank on the #99 not having a lid during a post race inspection. Just wondering why the heavy hand? I assume this is a remote oil tank they were talking about. Does not having a lid give that car some kind of advantage or is the fine and penalties a just because they can kind of thing?

They say by leaving the lid off it lets air move from one compartment to another and can gain as much as 10% more downforce on the car making it faster.
I think if Nascar really wanted to send a message they would have done something they have never done before, strip the win! That would most defininatly get their attention! The fine to the crewchief is peanuts to the team which will pat it. Not like it comes out of the CC's own pocket.:(

The fine to the crewchief is peanuts to the team which will pat it. Not like it comes out of the CC's own pocket.:(Depends on the team... sure they really don't effect the big players like Rousch, Hendrick, Gibbs, and Childress, but give that same fine to Robby Gordon, Stanton Barret, or any of the other teams on a shoestring-budget, and suddenly they're out for a few races, saving their pennies to get to the next one, and losing any chance at a points-guarantee to get them in the remaining races, which makes it hard to get sponsors, and could lead to bankrupting the teams.

They dont leave it off, they leave it "loose" so the air from under the car (high pressure) goes up into the cabin (low pressure) this creates a vacuum which sucks the car tighter to the track (more downforce) = faster racecar. Why they would try this with everyone getting caught with it at Daytona is beyond me. The need to strip all points from the race not just the hundred they took. Honestly the cash is secondary for any of those teams. Ralph

Depends on the team... sure they really don't effect the big players like Rousch, Hendrick, Gibbs, and Childress, but give that same fine to Robby Gordon, Stanton Barret, or any of the other teams on a shoestring-budget, and suddenly they're out for a few races, saving their pennies to get to the next one, and losing any chance at a points-guarantee to get them in the remaining races, which makes it hard to get sponsors, and could lead to bankrupting the teams.
Robby Gordon's reaction: The following is a statement from Robby Gordon regarding today's decision by the National Stock Car Racing Commission restoring his 100 owner and driver points as well as reversing the six-week suspension of crew chief Frank Kerr. The commission did increase the fine from $100,000 to $150,000. Gordon is now 21st in driver points. Robby Gordon: "We see this as good news. We are grateful the commissioners rescinded the points penalty and suspension but disappointed by the fine. Still, we see this as a victory for Robby Gordon Motorsports. We feel like justice was done and appreciate NASCAR creating a system that allowed us to take our appeal to the National Stock Car Racing Commission. Now we plan to put this issue behind us and concentrate on making the "Chase" in 2008 as well as getting the Jim Beam Dodge into victory lane. I want to thank the thousands of fans and our sponsors who have supported us through this episode and want everyone of you to know how much we appreciate all that you have done. Our goal is to be a model team in the future and never go through something like this again."(Robby Gordon Motorsports PR (http://www.robbygordon.com/cms/publish/article_1031.shtml))(3-5-2008)

What did Robby Gordon do?

They dont leave it off, they leave it "loose" so the air from under the car (high pressure) goes up into the cabin (low pressure) this creates a vacuum which sucks the car tighter to the track (more downforce) = faster racecar. Why they would try this with everyone getting caught with it at Daytona is beyond me. The need to strip all points from the race not just the hundred they took. Honestly the cash is secondary for any of those teams. Ralph

The report I read was that his cap was not "loose" as is the custom, but in fact "OFF". Hence the reason for further evaluation to see if it was a component malfunction or just "cheating" in plain sight.

They dont leave it off, they leave it "loose" so the air from under the car (high pressure) goes up into the cabin (low pressure) this creates a vacuum which sucks the car tighter to the track (more downforce) = faster racecar.

I guess I must be stupid, because I'm just not grasping the above explanation. How does leaving an oilcap loose/off affect undercar/cabin pressure? :confused: Is the oil tank an integral part of the body/bellypan?
Not getting it.

I guess I must be stupid, because I'm just not grasping the above explanation. How does leaving an oilcap loose/off affect undercar/cabin pressure? :confused: Is the oil tank an integral part of the body/bellypan?
Not getting it.
I believa it helps the engine to breath better, less pressure in the crank case so it can accelerate a little faster.
Kim

i might be wrong, but shouldn't an oil tank have a vent on it anyways?
i suppose this falls under the catch-all "actions detrimental to stock car racing" clause that NASCAR uses when they want to make a point. in a few weeks, they will quietly get their points back after an appeal- just like Robby Gordon...
as for the Robby Gordon thing- sure, he got his points back, but most casual fans will only remember that he got caught cheating, and that's what they will remember when they see his car in the same frame as their favorite driver on tv.

i might be wrong, but shouldn't an oil tank have a vent on it anyways?


It's probably an access cover, not a vent or an integral part of the tank. Removing the sheet metal would allow air to transit from the exterior to the interior of the car. Creating a small advantage in pressure in the interior of the car could supply a significant increase in down force on the track. There's a lot of area to push on.

What did Robby Gordon do?Sorry I couldn't find anything quickly to quote, so I'll use my crappy memory. The nose of the car did not have an approved part number from Nascar, although the nose is/was no different than any other team. Guess where the nose came from, Chyrsler/Dodge gave it to his team. This is why there was a large public outcry, since it was something out of Robby Gordon's control, yet Nascar deemed it illegal. Hope this is accurate. Daren

It's probably an access cover, not a vent or an integral part of the tank. Removing the sheet metal would allow air to transit from the exterior to the interior of the car. Creating a small advantage in pressure in the interior of the car could supply a significant increase in down force on the track. There's a lot of area to push on.

Thats what I've read too. Its the case that surrounds the oil tank and its located behind the drivers seat, if they leave the lid loose, or off, it bleeds air from under the car into the cab, creating down force on the nose. Sound like another trick is to allow air past the shifter boot into the car. The 100 points, $100,000 has been the new standard for messing with the new car.

A cut-n-paste that explains oil tank access covers and cheating. If you click the link it includes a diagram...

http://stockcarscience.com/blog/index.php/2008/03/05/oil_tank_covers

The Science of ...Missing Oil Tank Covers
Danny LaDue asks: Can you explain the location of a NASCAR oil tank reservoir and how the lack of one could improve aerodynamics?

Thanks for the question, Danny. I can–with a little help from Josh Browne, Chief Race Engineer at Red Bull Racing, who helped me disentangle a couple of things I heard on television.

First, the location. Unlike your car, the oil in a NASCAR car isn’t stored in the engine (which would be a wet sump system). NASCAR uses a dry sump system, in which oil is stored in an oil tank, and there’s a lot more oil than there is in your car. The oil tank is located behind the driver’s seat and is surrounded on the sides and top by sheet metal. The sheet metal plays an important role in minimizing heat radiating into the car, traps fumes from the hot oil, and serves as an additional firewall. This function is so important that NASCAR doesn’t allow the top of the tank to be attached using quick connect fasteners. The teams usually duct tape the lid on. The picture below shows the location of the oil tank with respect to the chassis. It doesn’t show the cover, which would sit on top of the tank.


So if the oil tank cover plays such an important role, why would you leave it loose, much less leave it off? The answer is aerodynamics. The air exerts forces on the car in different directions. We give different names to those forces depending on the direction in which they act. Drag is the force air creates along the length of the car. Air creates drag when it hits the front of the car, but it also creates drag when it gets inside the car because there is no way for it to get out. Drag always acts opposite the direction the car is trying to move, so you want to eliminate as much drag as possible.

Downforce and lift are the names we give the forces that push straight down or up on the car. Downforce pushes the tires harder into the track, while lift pulls up on the car. These two forces are in direct opposition to each other. Whichever one is bigger wins. You want to maximize downforce and minimize lift.

The oil tank is open to the bottom of the car. Air under the car creates lift. Even though you try to keep the splitter close to the ground, there is always some air that gets under the car. If the oil tank lid isn’t firmly tightened down, it creates a path for air to get out of the car, which reduces lift. Josh told me that there may also be a drag reduction–there was with the old car, but he wasn’t sure about the new one.

On NASCAR Now Monday, Ray Evernham commented that having the lid off "allowed the rear wing to make more downforce". The total downforce is the difference between all the forces pushing down and all the forces pushing up. From my discussions with Josh, I assume Ray means that the open oil tank lid decreases the force of air pushing up on the car, which means that there is less lift. If the rear wing (or spoiler in the case of the Nationwide cars) produces the same amount of downforce, but the amount of lift decreases because of the loose oil tank cover, then the net downforce is larger because there is less air pushing upward. I can’t see how having the oil tank cover missing would lead the wing to generate any additional downforce unless the decreased lift changed the car’s attitude, in which case all bets are off.

One of Rusty Wallace’s cars originally penalized in the Nationwide series won its appeal on the basis that all of the bolts on the oil tank cover were engaged fully and the design of the oil reservoir was such that it led to the apparent opening. I can imagine (especially having seen graduate students overtighten bolts) that if you screwed down really hard on the bolts and the oil tank lid were on the thin side, you might be able to warp the cover on the oil tank lid a little.

The case of the No. 99 car’s oil reservoir lid is a little different, though, because the reports have been that the lid was entirely missing. Carl Edwards said on NASCAR This Week that a "bolt backed out", but it’s a little hard to see how losing one bolt would lead to the disappearance of the entire plate. Boris Said asked the important question on NASCAR Now Monday: "Was the lid in the car?"

As of Wednesday morning, still no ruling from NASCAR. We’ll have to wait to see how serious they think this violation was.

UPDATE: $100,000, 100 points and six weeks suspension for crew chief Bob Osborne (who, incidentally, has a B.S. in Mechanical Engineering from Penn State).

why doesn't NASCAR just build 43 race cars and hire 43 pit crews, take them to every track, and randomly issue them to the racers on the day of the race?
it would make enforcing the rules so much easier.

If it was off that creates a bigger dilema, it should have been loose in the car, which means it could have been a huge problem for the driver. One bolt does not hold it down. There are so many things diff. from car to car you might be surprised Derrik. We used to say "cheat to compete" the grey areas have gotten smaller but you need every advantage you can get so.....you "improvise" some times. For some of you guys, its not the oil cap thats loose, its a lid, from a box in which a large oil tank sits in, which is in the car behind the driver. Again think vacuum, if air can flow from the track up through the box into the car, the pull of air through the box sucks the car down to the track, creating more downforce and ultimitly more speed. Ralph

why doesn't NASCAR just build 43 race cars and hire 43 pit crews, take them to every track, and randomly issue them to the racers on the day of the race?
it would make enforcing the rules so much easier. Wasn't this called IROC at one time. ;) Thanks for the read from Stock Car Science. I would never have guessed it was that important. Daren

I heard that Robbie Gordon's front end was delivered WITH the PROPER part number. BUT, it was the first revision, not the existing version. What a crock for Robbie. That nose, that he orders from the "approved" vendor had the CORRECT part number and he gets hit for $150k???? How 'bout the VENDOR pay the fine! Oh, we couldn't make any of the VENDORS mad now could we.......................... that would affect the KICK BACK scheme.

If it was off that creates a bigger dilema, it should have been loose in the car, which means it could have been a huge problem for the driver. One bolt does not hold it down. There are so many things diff. from car to car you might be surprised Derrik. We used to say "cheat to compete" the grey areas have gotten smaller but you need every advantage you can get so.....you "improvise" some times. For some of you guys, its not the oil cap thats loose, its a lid, from a box in which a large oil tank sits in, which is in the car behind the driver. Again think vacuum, if air can flow from the track up through the box into the car, the pull of air through the box sucks the car down to the track, creating more downforce and ultimitly more speed. Ralph
but what happens when the interior of the car is "full" and no more air can get crammed in there? or does the air flowing past the driver's side door (where there is no window glass) keep sucking the air thru the car? and wouldn't that create a negative pressure in the car, which should lead to less downforce and actual lift, if my under educated high school dropout brain is wrapping around it correctly..

Hey Derrick the car constantly dumps air out the window/openings in the cabin. Yes you have some of it, the interior is a neg. pressure area which creates the vacuum which sucks the air out from under the car, therefore allowing the car to suck tighter to the track. The cars downforce comes from the air over the car, this pressure has to push against the pressure that is under the car, if you lessen the pressure that is under the car, the pressure on the outer skin can push it lower to the track. The cabin is supposed to be a evenly balanced area, with the air pressure inside equal to the pressure outside. If you alter the cabin pressure other stuff happens, think of a plane losing cabin pressure , it falls til it becomes equal to the air around it again, same principle. Damn and i thought i had forgot most of this stuff! I am no brainiac fellas, its just because we still race stockcars and i have to use this stuff regularly thats why i know it. I new i should have taken that nascar job offer. As for Robbie, i do agree to some extent this was one of those not his fault deals, thats why they cut him a points break. Don't be surprised if Mopar "helps" with the fine through additional sponsor help. Ralph

or does the air flowing past the driver's side door (where there is no window glass) keep sucking the air thru the car? Yes it does, The sides toward the front of the car are low-pressure zone, and the open windows make the interior low-pressure as well.

and wouldn't that create a negative pressure in the car, which should lead to less downforce and actual liftNo, the low-pressure interior is below the roof, and above the floor pan, and pulls evenly on both... It pulls the roof down, and floor up, which cancels itself out. :)

The lid being off allows it to pull high-pressure air from under the car out... It is high-pressure because all the air allowed in the grille has no way to escape from under the hood, except to go under the car.

I think they should race white mini-vans. (The preceding was a sarcastic remark to show my disgust for the COT).

I think they should race white mini-vans. (The preceding was a sarcastic remark to show my disgust for the COT).

x2

the fact that there is a ford fusion and toyota camry in nascar angers me, what ever happened to the good ol' days of nascar?