Ok well, to make a long story short, my best friend ran his/wife's 2000 Camaro Z28 at Irwindale (1/8th mile) against a former racer buddy who has a '97 Firebird. They ran for $200 at Irwindale and my buddy unfortunatly lost. The thing about it is that the guy in the Firebird seemed too confident and rolled out $500, so a lot of us thought he was squeezing,(this was suppose to be an all motor race), and the guy refused to open his hood. Anyway, they ran for $200 and my buddy lost by 4 tenths. I don't remember the extact times or mph, but the Camaro ran roughly an 8.80 or so, and the Firebird ran in the 8.40s. All the Camaro has is a Flowmaster muffler, cold air, and he replaced that crunched up exhaust pipe that routes, (I believe), behind the oil pan. We have no idea what the Firebird had, or what was done to it, but it sounded really REALLY quiet. I'm thinking that the Firebird had a quiet exhaust, underdrive pullies, and a chip/custom computer work done. Does that sound like it'd be enough for a Firebird to run 8.40s in the 8th mile??? Or does it take more for an LT1 run that fast? Also, the Camaro is auto, and I believe that the Firebird was also auto. I appreciate any and all help guys!!!! I'd also appreciate any helpful hints and/or suggestions to figure out what the Firebird has done to it, and what other things to do to make my buddy's Camaro quicker. Thanks again!!!

8.40 in the 1/8th is a 13.10 in the 1/4 mile; doesn't take a boatload of mods to run that number. He's about .5 to .7 quicker than most the stock 97 LT1's I've seen at the track.

Jody

my 93 Z28 runs 9.00 1/8mi bone stock with stock radials and an automatic. i would say sticky tires, 4.10 gears, and a good stall and it could easily run the 8.40 that the firebird ran. my Z mph's better than my Chevelle did when i had a 355 in it. Z28 ran 9.00@81mph, my chevelle ran 8.56@79mph. difference being my chevelle had 4.10 gears and a 10" stall with sticky tires. if my Z28 was equiped the same, i believe it would outrun my chevelle. BTW, 8.80's isn't all that great for an LS1 car. were there traction issues?

I'm not sure if my buddy had any traction issues, I didn't have a chance to talk to him after he made his run. The car looked like it just took off, but then again, he was in the far lane, and I didn't really have a good view. Another thing is that the LS1 is roughly 1500miles old. The original motor spun a bearing a couple months ago, luckily their warrenty covered it, and they installed a brand new one. The weird thing about the car is, with the old motor, the car was running roughly 8.80s/8.90s on the 8th mile (at Irwindale), but when he ran it on the 1/4(Fontana), if memory serves me right, he was running in the high 13.60s/low 13.70s, but his 8th mile on the 1/4 showed 8.70's. Not sure why there was a difference. I feel/think if he were to get a full exhaust system, possibly an SLP loud mouth system, underdrive pullies, chip/computer work, along with his cold air, I think he'd be running 8.20s or so, but I could be optimistic.
What do you think is "ideal" for a pretty much stock LS1 to run on the 8th mile? And what do you think he should be running? (since he's got a Flowmaster muffler and cold air). Come to think of it, the track may have played a little role in the "not so good ets". It's been raining like heck over here, and we finally got a break a few days ago. Maybe the rain washing away all the rubber could have played a slight role in his ets? Maybe not? Thanks guys, and please keep the info/advice coming!

Guide to modding the LS1 (http://www.ls2.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=640&perpage=15&pagenumber=1)

i cant imagine your buddy in the Ls1 with some mods losing to and Lt1 with mods. Two of my friends have ls1's and racing a lt1 is like a joke to them even modded ones. The Ls1 makes far more power than the lt1 does (300hp with out ls6 intake and heads,330hp with them,2001 and up had ls6 stuff, to the lt1's 275hp or so. The lt1 your friend raced had to have some decent mods to beat him.

I used to have a 96 Z28 (LT1) that ran 8.33 in the 1/8, 12.9 in the 1/4. It had the following:

Airbox (stock is very restrictive)
Borla cat-back
1.6 rockers
Heads ported by me
Drag radials
4.10 gears (6-speed)

Stock exhaust manifolds. Stock cats. Stock cam.

Originally posted by 70cartruck:
i cant imagine your buddy in the Ls1 with some mods losing to and Lt1 with mods. Two of my friends have ls1's and racing a lt1 is like a joke to them even modded ones. The Ls1 makes far more power than the lt1 does (300hp with out ls6 intake and heads,330hp with them,2001 and up had ls6 stuff, to the lt1's 275hp or so. The lt1 your friend raced had to have some decent mods to beat him. True that the LS1 stock came with more power out of the box than a stock LT1 did. Once your modify either platform, the stock power argument is irrelevant. FYI, the LT4 engine (available in GS Corvettes and a limited number of Camaro's) was rated at 330, same as the rating of the later LS1's. The LT4 is the same reverse-cooled Gen II sbc architecture as the LT1.

To beat an essentially stock LS1 doesn't take much. An LT1 running 8.40's is a high 12 second car in the 1/4, and likely pushing 320~330rwhp. Getting to that range of rwhp in an LT1 requires a cam and/or heads, and well-selected and matched bolt-on parts.

Unfortunately, your friend got duped by a pretty stout LT1. I doubt that your friend got sprayed by this car, as even sprayed nearly-stock LT1's run low 12's pretty easily and his 1/8mi time would have been considerably faster.

I've taken money from folks who think the 'lowly' LT1 is no match for their LS1, but I also respect the LS1 for what it is. Anything can be made to be fast and thinking otherwise on the street will humble you and lighten your wallet quickly.

actually the mph that my stock LT1 runs, suggests that with the proper gearing and stall convertor and sticky tires, should be capable of at least 8.50's. it has a better power to weight ratio than my chevelle and my chevelle was ETing .5 quicker due to gear, convertor and traction, as the Z28 mph'd better. i have a buddy who has a 95 LT1 that has edelbrock headers and exhaust, cold air box, and stock radials that runs 8.50's all day. box stock LS1's should run at least 8.70's on stock tires with an automatic. track elevation might be the main factor here in this case.
i have another buddy who had a 96 LT1 with a 6spd, 4.10 gears, drag radials, 1 3/4" headers with custom exhaust and some computer tweaking and it went 8.20's without ever having taken the valve covers off of it. he drove the car like it was a super stocker though and has broken several drivetrain components.

Thanks for the link 91 Camaro, very interesting!

If its a white Firebird and there's a gym bag anywhere in the car, check the bag. A smelly towel and some socks... but a white NX bottle in the bottom. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Don't get too excited either ... racing for $$ can be serious stuff as I've seen on the streets around Michigan.

I would be awful suspicious of him sand-bagging the Firebird to boot. Chances are 8.40's won't beat him either.

I would offer the advise that your buddy race for bragging-rights only until he learns more of what he's doing ... and the competition is doing.

Neal

Originally posted by LXS:
Ok well, to make a long story short, my best friend ran his/wife's 2000 Camaro Z28 at Irwindale (1/8th mile) against a former racer buddy who has a '97 Firebird. They ran for $200 at Irwindale and my buddy unfortunatly lost. The thing about it is that the guy in the Firebird seemed too confident and rolled out $500, so a lot of us thought he was squeezing,(this was suppose to be an all motor race), and the guy refused to open his hood. Anyway, they ran for $200 and my buddy lost by 4 tenths. I don't remember the extact times or mph, but the Camaro ran roughly an 8.80 or so, and the Firebird ran in the 8.40s. All the Camaro has is a Flowmaster muffler, cold air, and he replaced that crunched up exhaust pipe that routes, (I believe), behind the oil pan. We have no idea what the Firebird had, or what was done to it, but it sounded really REALLY quiet. I'm thinking that the Firebird had a quiet exhaust, underdrive pullies, and a chip/custom computer work done. Does that sound like it'd be enough for a Firebird to run 8.40s in the 8th mile??? Or does it take more for an LT1 run that fast? Also, the Camaro is auto, and I believe that the Firebird was also auto. I appreciate any and all help guys!!!! I'd also appreciate any helpful hints and/or suggestions to figure out what the Firebird has done to it, and what other things to do to make my buddy's Camaro quicker. Thanks again!!! I have a good friend with a '94 camaro, it has a GM 'hotcam' kit, longtubes, and a few other very minor bolt-ons. I raced him with my '02 Z28, with a catback and an air intake kit, and we ran door-to-door the whole way down the track. Same result twice in a row, and we'd run the same from a roll.
We were running 13.0-13.1's on street tires.

Anyway, point is don't underestimate the LT1, it doesn't take a whole lot to get it rollin pretty good smile.gif . My friend later added a 75 shot, and with that and the above mods he dyno'd at 400 rwhp, and almost 500 ft/lbs!! He sprayed me one day on the way home from the track, and left my camaro like it was sitting still.

I'm thinking, why would you put up 2 bills when
the other guy won't open the hood?
Didn't you smell a rat?

Originally posted by SS_Dave:
I'm thinking, why would you put up 2 bills when
the other guy won't open the hood?
Didn't you smell a rat? Not uncommon to not lift (I won't race unless we both lift), but someone that confident would have made me suspicous.

Easy to make a car seem slow in computer days, I have a 3 position switch on my Thunderbird, one of the positions it for 87 octane use which cuts 6* timing and slows me up a good .4-.5 in the 1/4 while at the track, flip the switch back to the 91 octane setting and it picks back up again. If I don't trust the other guy I'll even put my 6psi pulley on the blower and run the 87 octane setting. (Usually ricers love to "challenge me" when the bird it running high 14's, then I toss the 9psi pulley on and flip the switch for 91octane and run high 13's)

The best mod for 1/8th mile times it a Stall converter, I went from 9.2's at best to 8.8's in my thunderbird by swapping in a 9.5" 3200rpm converter from Precision Industries. (60's went from 2.2 to 1.9)

My LT1 runs 7.5's NA so I'm sure the 97 FB
is capable of running a lot faster then 8.4's,
if he was willing to race for $500.

Emil 71SS-502,93Z 383

Originally posted by SS_Dave:
I'm thinking, why would you put up 2 bills when
the other guy won't open the hood?
Didn't you smell a rat? I hope I reach the point one day where my finances allow throwing away $200 like that. If it's "no open hood" and run what you brung, 8.80 in the 1/8 ain't bringin' much.

Originally posted by LXS:
The guy in the Firebird seemed too confident and rolled out $500, so a lot of us thought he was squeezing,(this was suppose to be an all motor race), and the guy refused to open his hood.[/QB]Your buddy is a dope. Just the above info would have been enough for me to say no thanks. The guy in the Firebird definitely had something up his sleeve (or under the hood!).

Well as great as a guy my buddy is, when he gets in his "mode", he does things without thinking. Then he says that he knows he shoulda did things differently. I wasn't there with him when he met up with the FB, I was in the stands while he was waiting to run. I talked to his older brother on my cell phone, he's the one who told me that the other guy didn't want to open his hood, etc. I personally, would have just ran for bragging rights if he didn't want to open the hood, but, even then, you can't really tell what's been done unless it sticks out like a sore thumb, i.e. nitrous, blower, etc.

Hey Steve, it actually was a white FB, lucky guess or do you know something I don't? :D

Your right Neal, but I think my buddy was a little too "focused" to think otherwise that night, and being that he's used to running quicker times in his old '98 Cobra, I don't think he realized or really thought things thru with the slower Camaro.

SS_Dave, if I was actually there in the waiting lines when they met up, I would have told him to really think things thru because yes, I knew something had to be up because that guy was too confident.

The only good thing, if you look at it that way, that happened is that once the race was over, for one reason or another, the guy in the FB left and never came back, so my buddy didn't lose his money. I don't know if he'll come back and try to "take what's his" another day or what. One thing's for sure, my buddy is gonna get himself another Cobra and race him again. I personally would rather get some bolt ons, chip/computer work, slicks, high stall converter, take some practice runs, then race that guy again....but then again, in the mean time, who knows what he could be doing to his car :confused: Oh well, as long as the races take place at the track, and noone gets hurt, and the money (if any) you loose or gain isn't vital to your bills, rent, etc., then I guess it's all good.

This is a real gray area. The LT1 cars had very restrictive intake and especially restrictive exhausts. My son has a '94 FB Formula, LT1, 6 speed, 3.42 gears. We installed, Edel Tubular Ehaust, High flow cat {car had a 3" Dynomax Cat Back on it when we got it). Reprogrammed CPM. Car as 275-40-17's all around. Subframe connectors were also added. Hardtop car, no t-tops, body is very rigid.

Haven't ran it at the track, but lay into it from a 20 mph roll in 1st and it will spin the rear tires effortlessly. 1st, 2nd & 3rd gears come literally as fast as you can shift them. Just comparing the drive feel against my 408BBC '69 SS car that ran 14.0's on street tires, I would put it as a 12.80 - 12.90 car as sits. Factory was 275HP, with the mods we made, it is probably closer to 325-330HP. The benefits of the LS1 were a lot less restriction in the intake and exhaust from the factory. A good warmed over LS1 motor can get to 400HP easily, but you don't get the big gains from simple intake and exhaust boltons with the LS1 because these motors weren't really restricted from the factory in the first place, whereas the LT1 cars were.