the comp xe 268h-10 cam went flast in the chevelle over the weekend and im debating on wether or not to swap to a roller cam or stay with the hydrallic cam i cant justify spending about 1700 on everything to swap to the roller such as springs retaniers cam lifters and if i go of ne other size bigger than im going to have to swap to a stall convertor and if i do that with the roller cam then i cant afford it but if i go with a much more cost efficiant hydralic then I could afford it then........

motor is a 350 bored 60 over
Keith Black 120s 9.7 to 1 comp
441 heads springs matched to my old cam cut down to about 64 to 68cc's or so
mallory HEI dist
edelbrock torker 2 intake
TH-350 stock convertor and 308 one legger (2400 stall B&M hole shot) maybe....
gonna get a road demon carb or something of that nature...


I was thinking of the Lunati Voodoo 268/276 489"/504" lift....... what do yall think

You have email

might double check if comp will replace that, they replaced my dads the first time

why would he want another CC? Get something else, ditch the CC problems. You really need to think about getting the pan off the thing and cleaning it out, checking the bearings. That's a lot of metal floating around in there.

Tom

I'm not saying this isn't the case here but, can all these CC "flat lobe" issues be CC's fault? I see a lot of inexperienced guys here building an engine for the first or second time, seemingly asking good questions about assembly techniques, and still have a lobe or two go flat! My estimation is that excessive cranking at initial startup is a major contributing factor and I would have to say that lack of spark or ignition timing issues tops the list. It seems as though most everyone takes the time to prelube the engine after assembly (and I've always done this before the intake goes on) and for the most part get the valve lash set "close enough" prior to firing it up. Fuel in the carb is generally not an issue either. You shouldn't have to crank it over but a few revolutions if everything is in order.

Maybe what is needed in the tech reference section is a detailed checklist for this. It may save a few $$, cams and reduce some of the frustration.

Originally posted by Tom Mobley:
why would he want another CC? Get something else, ditch the CC problems. You really need to think about getting the pan off the thing and cleaning it out, checking the bearings. That's a lot of metal floating around in there.

Tom the cc i put in my 406 went flat so i replaced it with a crane but when i called cc they were more than happy to replace it. i told them i had already ordered a brand x replacement and they said did i need anything else? i said well i would love a set of your roller tip rockers. they sent out a set that day as "comp" for the cam. they are really the nicest people to deal with you will ever find and more than fair. its just that they must make their cams out of aluminum.

I've only seen one cc cam go bad, it was an xtreme energy grind, but the problem was spring related. I think more cam failures are a result of mismatched parts, not enough clearance, and improper breakin proceedures than faulty cams. CC probably sells more than anyone so the rate of failure is probably more as a result. JMO

I'll have to agree with some of the later posts on this one, but I do feel that sometimes these things just happen with no fault of the guy that put the engine together.

I've always seen it happen on the break in and thats why we do the break in. To try and prevent that. I've built 25-30 motors in the last 10 years and I've seen it 3 times. Once on one of mine and twice on a friends roundy-round car.

I feel on his first time his was because of improper RPMs on the break in(too low) at almost an idle and the other was just faulty parts.

The one that happened to me was about my 20th motor and I noticed it about 10min into the break in. Yes I followed all the steps I normally do. I used more than ample cam lube and regular lube on the whole assembly and the motor fired up right away. Got it to about 2500 and check timing and all was good. I heard a whooping type of sound coming from the exhaust so I shut down and checked lash. The #5 exh rocker was .040 loose and all the others were within .001 of each other. Pulled the intake and BLAM the the lobe and the lifter were HASHED. Almost couldn't get the lifter out. First time I had ever flattened a lobe.

I feel it was just fluked parts. The lifter needs to spin right away to "mate" with the cam. The RPMs need to be high enough to get oil there. So on and so on. Maybe there was an air pocket just below the surface of the lobe? Maybe the machine chattered when grinding the cam? Maybe there was a burr on the lifter to prevent it from spinning?

Hard to say but I know I followed all the regular steps to break it in and it wasn't a Comp or a Crane, but the company was more than helpful on a new one and it was a freeby that I won at a race. They didn't really even need to do that.

Yes I had to take the engine to my machinist to get it cleaned and check, but hey, that's the breaks that happen. Experience helps but I did my very first one with no problems and with that small of a cam and lower spring pressures a guy can miss a couple of things(I say that in jest) and still be ok as long as the engine fires quickly. It gets tricky when you get into high lift solid cams and high spring pressures that extra steps need to be taken.

Comp didn't make a bad cam onpurpose but the metal and the process isn't perfect, especially when your mass producing like almost all cams are.

A lot of good posts here and good ideas to check for but I would stick with a hyd or solid flat tappet for costs and ease of use.

Sorry, I put my $1.02 cents in.

Rob

Make sure the lifter bores are smooth and the lifters are able to rotate freely. Something to check before trying another one. Also I'd recommend heavy duty oil, like a Mobil Delvac diesel oil for break in.

I've built a number of motors in my life. Way back when I was young and dumb(as opposed to old and dumb), I could guarantee you that if I could do it wrong, I would and did. I never had a cam go flat. I cranked a motor once for hours trying to get it to fire. I used to assemble them with straight 30w. I had spring pressures so great that I was pulling rocker studs. No flat cams. Now in this day and age, I put a motor together with kid gloves, do everything right and just you watch. I have a 454 and a 350 awaiting fire. We'll see......

Cam

His distributor was bad I believe.

My dad did have 2 Comp 272H cams in the 468 in his 4x4 go flat though. One on break in they replaced and the other after about 5000 miles (but about 2 years) while towing my heavy ass car home up and down the ozark hills here in AR. This time it got bearing, lifters, oil pump ect too...

These are the first problems he's ever had with comp and they were very helpful the first time.

well it was all done how it was supposed to be done about 1000 - 1500 miles later i could hear a slight pop and I was like ohhh hell no..... pulled the valve covers fired it off and one of em was just barly moving and then i was pissed from then on out the rest of the day........

so what do yall think I should do go roller? or get another one like my old one just a bit bigger maybe.......

Certainly no harm in a hyd roller at all if you are willing to spring for the correct parts. The extra power is just another bonus. since I started using rollers (2 hyd, 1 solid) I don't regret a thing. Never had a problem with a hyd flat tappet, but the rollers were an easy way to boost power and from what I've seen on the boards over the years an insurance policy on cam eating. I'm still new to the solid roller experience, no problems as of yet, but can't say I wouldn't go back to a hyd roller next time.
I did have a problem with one roller that ate through the heat treat pretty quick (but caused no damage), not sure what the story was on that, perhaps because it was a small cam with alot of lift and they had to grind the core funny or something (I really don't have a clue..) (286 230 .639 single pattern)

matt

The very first cam I ever broke in was a CC cam. Rookie install. The only thing I did right was put some much moly grease on that thing that you couldn't really see the cam anymore.

Installed the distributor 180 off. My dad got impatient and cranked it A LOT. I got him to stop. Finally figured out the dist was in wrong. Took it back out, popped it back in the right way.

Then the timing was off, a little more cranking.

Finally got it running, did a 30 minute break-in in about 4 stages. Dumped the oil and changed the filter. Drove it about 100 miles the first night. Dumped the oil out again. Kept driving it as much as possible during the first 2000 miles. I drove those 2000 miles very quickly. At 2000 miles I changed over to Mobil 1.

That same week I was at Irwindale making the first runs with the 350. Kept racing every week that summer, slow car, but the engine saw 5000rpm on every run I made.

The engine car got a long break when I crashed the car. About 2 months later I was driving it again and racing once a month or so. Drive it to school once or twice a week.

Changed the Mobil 1 6 months after I put it in.

It is getting close to 8000miles now. I did an intake swap at around 7000 and I checked out the lifters, no sign of undue wear on them or the lobe.

Granted, it is a tiny cam with slow ramps (CC260HE or CC256DEH, never found out which one it actually was. Engine build sheet showed one, cam card was the other.) but it was indeed a rookie cam break in. And it has survived.

All that said, when I get around to doing a cam swap on this thing, I won't be going to Comp for my cam. Mine worked out real well, but it isn't worth taking a risk with all the CC cams that have flattened out.

I'll be looking towards Isky myself.

I guess you have to ask yourself "who does CC get their cores from?" (that's where the root cause may be) and then "what other cam manufacturer's use the same core supplier?", then don't buy a cam from any of those folks either. I think if there were as many Isky, Crane or Brand X installs as there are CC out there you would probably find an equal incidence of failures.

sxty9shovel, you dont have to spend 1700 bucks to get into a roller cam. I tried to send you email, but your address is no good. Can you update it or send me an email and I'll send you some info.

Originally posted by Johnny O:
sxty9shovel, you dont have to spend 1700 bucks to get into a roller cam. I tried to send you email, but your address is no good. Can you update it or send me an email and I'll send you some info. Can u post that info here? My dad was looking to possibly go roller, but it is going to be pretty expensive from the looks of it.

I'd bet a street duty solid roller w/ red zones, new springs, titanium retainers, so on and so forth could run 1700 when all is said and done. A hyd roller could be done for quite a bit cheaper, as long as its nothing crazy. IIRC off the top of my head my red zones, new springs & titanium retainers was right around 1000 bucks, not including the billet cam, but I don't have the slips right infront of me.
hyd roller lifters are cheaper and if its a mild grind I think you can get away with a regular roller core. I think that is what got me in trouble on my high lift hyd roller (~.657 @ 1.75 ratio, but it wasn't clear the rockers were 1.75 so I thought the lift was .639 ), it was a standard core and wore out very quickly.

matt

My cam is from Howard's Cams, part of Competition Products...it's a custom ground solid roller based on my needs, as discussed with the cam grinder. The cam was 279.00 I believe...Crane lifters, springs, retainers (dont need titanium) and 10 deg. locks, the whole thing came to less than $900.00....even if you upgrade to the Isky Red Zones, add about $200.00...still way below 1700.00. The tech I worked with is John, but anyone there can guide you, just tell them specifically what you are after. Phone is 920-233-5228. Check them out at least, I think you'll be impressed. John

someone mentioned to my dad something about race car pull outs that are used for one race then replaced, the guy claimed a shop in texarkana sells em...

what would be you guys opinion on those? sound like trouble?

keep in mind i have to get a stall convertor,carb,fuel pump and some stuff like that I priced the edelbrock rpm roll cam for 220 and the camPONET kit was like 700 or so and some i added it up and it was like 1740 bucks :rolleyes: can i bum a couple grand off someone???

I looked at my slips: cam, lifters, springs, retainers was 1034. lunati springs/retainers, isky red zones, comp cam.

matt