How's it going guys? My question doesn't related to my chevelle, but rather to my camaro (1995 Z28). I was pulling up my driveway today, being real light on the clutch (my driveway is steep and covered in snow)and I accidentally killed the car. Embarassing, I know, but hey, it happens to the best of us sometimes. I didnt think anything of it until I went to start the car back up and everything was COMPLETELY DEAD. Nothing electrical is working on the car whatsoever. What the heck happened???? I checked all of my fuses, and they seem fine, checked my battery just incase the ground came loose of something, but it is fine. I checked all the other grounds I could find on the car, and they are fine. Does anyone know what might have happened, or what I should check for?? :confused: This is my daily driver, and i'm absolutely screwed if I'm not going to be able to drive it. :( I can't afford to miss work, or college. I'd REALLY appreciate any advice you guys can give. I don't know if I posted this in the proper area or not?

Thanks

-ben

Do your headlights work?

Just a wild guess here.......is that year car equipped with a circut breaker, some cars are and need to be reset if tripped. Some times designed to shut off all electrical power in the event of impact. Strange.........check owners manual?

Absolutely nothing at all works. The dome light won't even come on. The car is completely dead by electrical terms....naturally I can't start it up, and it's blocking my driveway right now. I'm not sure i'll be able to push it up into my driveway seeing how it's so steep. *shakes head* This sucks! Any suggestions are abosolutely welcome.....I can't figure out what the hell happened. I mean WTF??

ak69 - I have no idea. I've been looking through the manual to see if i can find something,but i've had no luck. Any idea where I could look on the car to find out? I just recently got this car, and honestly haven't been under the hood much, or underneath. I kind of bought it because I wanted new speed, and "reliability"....go figure.

A couple of thoughts.

How old is the battery? The plates will crack and cause a short and then it shows up all of the sudden(the only way to start is with a jump.)The plates in the battery can't take the starting load. It happened to my truck. (new battery fixed it).

Ignition switch short? (or breaker?)

Fusable link on the ground wire?

Battery wire at the starter was weak and finally let go?

Just some options to throw out.

Rob

Badly corroded cables?

http://www.thirdgen.org/techbb2/showthread.php?s=d80644e265d60c451a475a4c4a6c43b0&threadid=274397

Copy and paste this link, thrid gen camaro site, sounds like the same problem?

mfsr - Thanks for the suggestions, but I don't think it's any of those. Everything is really new and very well maintained. I did just find out that there are a bunch of circuit breakers on the car. If that's what happened, i'm not sure, then I still don't know how to fix the problem. After looking through my owners manual, i've found that there are many. I also just found out where the damn fuse box is on the inside of the car, so i'm going to check all those fuses right now. I had only checked the ones under the hood prior to posting this.....I couldn't find the other box....they really know how to hide stuff in these cars.

Feel free to keep suggesting possibilities. Thanks a bunch of the timely replies guys. Hopefully I can get this licked before tomorrow....unfortunately I have class in 3 hours.

Thanks again

-ben

Do you have a voltmeter?

Check across the battery, then starter if possible. Our(well my generation at least) cars are known for loose contacts in the steering column. Maybe give it a bang? Have you also tried starting it in a couple different gears with the clutch in or in neutral? Have to ask :D

Have you checked your battery for any voltage? If your battery dies or won't charge any more then the altenator will keep the car alive until it's turned off. Then it won't start because there's no power to do so.

Quadruple post

http://www.chevelles.com/forum/ultimatebb.php/topic/22/5177.html

ak-69 I checked out the link, and it sounds like exactly what happened to me. I mean absolutely NOHTING is working. Dome light, power windows/doors, headlights, brake lights, parking lights, running lights, radio, fans, NOTHING. I just don't get it. I just finished checking all of the fuses, and they are all fine.

The battery is fine. I tried to put some jumpers on it and give it a start. It didn't work. There is absolutely no power getting to the car whether or not I try to jump the battery. The car is just completely dead....nothing electrical works. Even my little clicker on my key chain for the car isn't doing anything, so the power door locks are out also.

The fusable link is just that, a link, it blows to protect other things.

If it's attached to your battery cable then you have to replace the whole cable.

They WILL blow without warning

How/what do I check to see if this is the case?

Put a jumper from the battery negative to the frame or other ground.

Vince G I'll give it a shot.

You can take off the cables and check their continuity/resistance. If resistance is really high or there is no reading then you found your problem. If they check out ok, at least you've eliminated something else from the equation.

And how do I do that?

Correct me if I'm wrong guys but the "links" I'm used to are a small wire attached to the positive side cable and the link is encased in a rubber cylinder and if it's blown it will be very soft in the middle, blown out on the side, crooked, or burnt.

It's usually up by the battery terminal. Small 10-12ga. wire with a spade or terminal on the end connected to a secondary fuse block of some sort

Rob

without a wiring diagram, its gonna be hard
if the battery is good, see if you can reach the
post on the starter with a test lite, or does the battery have a wire going back to the elect panel-i know its hard to see anything on those cars, but its obvious its a total failure @ some point-some cars and trucks in the 90's had the bat cables corrode out-try shaking it with the light switch on, if its something in the cable
maybe the lites will flash a little
you did ck the ground cable from the bat?

Batterys now days are like lightbulbs,don't wear down just go out,charge on them allday and get nothing.Also had a loose + cable rubbing on frame onetime till it exposed the wire, just had to turn on ignition burned it in half.Didn't even see the flash or smoke from it.

hey 71Chevy there should be a fusible link at the battery junCtion bloCk that has gone bad CheCk it out.Follow the positive battery Cable to the junCtion bloCk.

Well guys, I looked at the car a little more, climbed under it a few times, froze my arse off, and have come up with nothing. At one point I was sitting in the car with the keys in the ignition, headlight light switch on, and just messing around with the trans as I tried to think of what might be wrong. I don't know if it was just a coincidence or not, but when I was shifting through the gears, all of a sudden all the lights came on and everything was fine. It was as if nothing had happened. I crossed my fingers, turned the ignition, and then it died again and was back to normal. Correct me if i'm wrong, but i'm doubting that it has anything to do with the battery or any fuse seeing how this happened. If the battery or a fuse were blown (at least a fuse that would do this) then it couldn't have "come back to life" for a little bit like it did.

HD - Do you mean to check the fuses in the fuse box? Sorry, i'm not sure what you mean....could you explain this a little further to me?

Is it possible that the cold and moisture could do this somehow? Also, does anyone know where the ground from the block to the chassi (i'm assuming this is how it is done on these cars?) is? I was looking all over for it, but found nothing.

I'm thinking it's just something stupid like some loose connection or something given what happened, but please keep sending ideas, and i'll be sure to check.

Thanks a bunch guys

- Ben

1, Hook up your charger to the car.
2, Connect the charger + lead to battery +.
3, Connect the charger - lead to a good spot on the sheetmetal.
4, If the dash lights, headlights or radio won't work, it's not a ground problem.
5, Problem still sounds like a cracked fusible link. Ed said in one of your other posts it's located off the battery towards the fender.

I had a '73 GTO that did that , ran to school came out and dead. unable to jump etc unless negative cable put on motor metal. I was able to take jumper and connect motor ground and battery with the jumper, started fine, on it's battery. The neg cable corroded through about 6 in down from the battery post connection. Just a thought.

jiggling the shifter might have made contact for the ground untill he hit the key and overloaded it again. Sounds like a ground problem

Are you sure that the battery is good? You just never know. Try looking for that fusable link again. I think there are 3-4 good decsriptions on here as to where it might be. :eek:

I'm still semi-convinced it could be a shorted plate in the battery. :confused: They just go go sometimes and if it is a cracked plate, the acid(gel)can still "detect" a charge, but when you go to start it that load "travels" up the crack and kind of goes nowhere.

Did you try to jump it. Not charge, then start it. Can you see a date on the battery.

Checking the voltage/resistance in the wires is a good thing but with new cars being a pain to get your hands into it might be easier to work on the most obvious and weed those out first.

Jump start it.
Check for fusable links.
Look for general heavy corrosion anywhere thats easy to see in the system.
Get the battery LOAD tested.
Go kick the neighbors dog. :mad:
Have a beer. graemlins/beers.gif
Stick your thumb out to get to work. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

It's easy to hear and see mechanical problems, but you can't hear or see(until there's smoke) electrical ones. It sucks graemlins/angry.gif

Rob

i know everybody is saying fusable links and batt... but just a thought...

could the neutral safety switch some how got burned or got wet? might be worth checking out. i know when mine went. the car would not start, no matter what gear it was in. i put a new one in, and bam, worked. i never even got a click or anything from the starter either. and some times the radio wouldnt work either.

just a thought.

aaron

OK just my .02. Sounds like the main battery cable to the starter is either corroded or the power line comming off the starter to the main fuse box is bad. You mentioned that you stalled the car...maybe jostled the starter enough to cause a problem. Also brought it up that when you where messing with the shifter you had power. Being on a hill as you mentioned maybe jostled the started again to get power back. I would start there. Good luck and dont freeze to death out there.

maybe try calling a local chevy dealer and ask to talk to a tech quickest way to find out if your stuck..

Check for loose connections on the starter and I had the same thoughts about the neutral safety switch. Could be shorted.

My bet is on the battery. If you still have the Delco battery in it the positive terminal may be leaking and causing a bad connection. Will be intermittant for awhile than all of a sudden...done. When you check the battery make sure to pull both cables off and inspect the terminals. If the positive cable bolt won't turn or pulls the contact out of the battery, then you found the problem. Other than that, the battery is probably shorted ,or you have a bad battery cable connection at either end of either cable.

..try another battery

remove terminals from battery. clean said terminals. reattach terminals. at the least everything should come back on. If you turn it over, and it dies again, reclean the terminals.

if the battery is providing adequate amps and volts then remove the positive terminal for 15 mins. Then reconnect as this allows the ECM to reset.

Thanks a bunch for the replies guys. I'm really SORRY to not have answered your replies sooner, but i've been busy/away for awhile. I will try all of those things you guys have listed, and keep all my fingers and toes crossed as I do. Where is the neutral safety switch, and how do I tell if it's bad?? It's 11:30pm right now, freezing ass cold, but i'm heading outside to try some things. (no i'm not a car guy ha haaa right!) =^D

Thanks again guys, i'll let you know what happens

- Ben

I have seen the terminal of the battery become disconnected from the internal contacts in the battery on side post batteries like in your car. I have seen the sidepost terminal come out of the battery yours might be ready to fall out. the battery manufacturer just stakes (crimps) the terminal in the plastic battery case.

replace the battery before going any further.

I believe the gent said he had no power what-so-ever to the car, ign, starter, radio, headlights, etc. That rules of the neutral safety switch or a clutch switch.

It is a main pwr problem, something common to the entire electrical system of the car. That is a fairly easy thing to find (not too many possibilities).

-Battery kaput or just discharged from a bad alternator.
-Cables
-Connections
-Short circuit?


Also note:



The battery is fine. I tried to put some jumpers on it and give it a start. It didn't work. There is absolutely no power getting to the car whether or not I try to jump the battery. The car is just completely dead....nothing electrical works. Even my little clicker on my key chain for the car isn't doing anything, so the power door locks are out also.

He does say the battery is fine (based on what kind of test?)

If the battery is fine (and you NEED to check this with at least a test-light, better yet a voltmeter, best of all pull the battery and take it somewhere to get it load tested) then it is in the cables, terminals or fusable link.

First test the battery properly to be sure you can rule it out:

1) Load test it as described above.

OR

2) Place test-light or voltmeter on the main terminals of the battery. Not the cables, the terminals themselves. Give 'em a clean before you do this, a crappy connection will spoil everything with a test like this.

Nothing? U have a dead battery. Remove the cables and put a charger on it. See if it takes and holds a charge. If it does, the battery is ok, but you have a charging problem (alternator). If it doesn't take a charge, replace it.

If the battery shows gd (test light lights up or shows voltage on voltmeter), turn the key to start. Goes dead? See above (dead or low batt) Recharge the batt. You might try the test also with the headlights instead of the starter.

Also if you measure voltage ok until you turn the key you could still be seeing the effects of a bad connection., Double check that you are on the terminals of the batt, no the cables. If its definately on the battery the battery is the problem, otherwise it could well be a connection problem, so clean everything as described below under "1. Terminals".

Okay, so the battery itself tests good beyond a shadow of a doubt, you have power at the battery terminals that doesn't fade with the headlights/starter:

Verify that you have no power at the fusepanel, and junction box with a test-light or voltmeter. Assuming you don't, procede with:

1) Terminals: Pull the battery terminals off and clean very thoroughly with a wire brush, sandpaper, etc. Don't stop until the metal is shiny and clean. Repeat this on both the battery cable ends and the battery itself.

2) Ground: Pull the negative cable off where it attaches to the motor, thoroughly clean it's lug and the place where it mounts. If there is a separate small ground wire to the body take that off and clean it as well.

3) Fusable link: Correct me if I'm wrong but the fusable link protects everything but the starter, right? So if this is out, there will be no power at the junction box/fuse panel but you will still have pwr at the starter. TEST IT! Find out! If you read pwr at the main starter terminal, and nothing at the junction box the problem is in the junction feed cable or fuseable link. If you have power at the junction box your radio, lights, accessories, etc should be working already so I'll assume you don't.

If you haven't found it by now the cable itself might be bad.

Also if you disconnect and charge the battery, turn off all the switches, lights, heater, etc, and reconnect the batt. If there is a huge spark you have a short or a large current draw. Seek professional electrical help.

You might want an extra pair on hands around to help you (turn the key while you watch meter, etc).

You can cheat and bypass bad cables with a set of jumpers, just make sure the CONNECTIONS ARE CLEAN! ex, you can run one jumper cable from the battery negative to a clean spot on the motor, that bypasses the ground cable. You can do the same with the starter and the positive terminal.

BTW, I don't believe there is much chance that an ECM reset would help.

If you try this stuff I just about guarrantee the problem will be found, if not, post the results of these tests back here so we have more complete info to work with.

Good luck!

I'm with BHawkmeck and Garry, I once scrubed the main cable from the battery to the starter off on a driveway hump. I had absolutly no power to anything.

Sounds like you have a similar problem. Check the cable to the starter.

we can all guess till hell freezes over(its cold enough to) but something he said in a later post about playing with the shifter(the car was a stick) and the lights came on for a second makes me kinda wonder if where the wiring comes thru the firewall is on a bulkhead type plug typical of most cars, and if it has come loose, and when he was playing with the shifter he was pushing in the clutch, it flexed the firewall enough to make contact for a second-i have seen this b4 over the years, but kinda rare-long distance trouble shooting is tough, and your at the mercy of the person explaining the trouble

I still say he has enough info to proceed, he just needs to be methodical.

I agree, we are at the mercy of the description of events. It is at best unclear whether he has power at the batt, firewall, or starter. Thats why we have to throw out so many possibilities to check.

Most of the possibilities named on the prev. 3 pages are good ones, it just depends on him testing them out one by one. Process of elimination.

Sometimes when troubleshooting we are tempted to take the easy route, make assumptions, etc, but I have learned over the years that you don't save time that way, and you don't save work, cuz you end up redoing it properly anyways. Best to go slow and sure so you don't have to second guess the conclusion of a previous test. I will try a couple of quick things first that are easy to do, just to see if that's it, and more often than not end up finding it straight away, but if I get stumped, it's time to go back to squre one and go step by step.

I am also the king of coincidence. If that was my car it is quite possible that wiggling the shifter and the car coming alive for a momement had nothing to do with the problem, just a silly old coincidence...Troubleshooting 101 though suggests a link so I would be compelled to investigate.

I'll go on record as predicting a dirty/loose connection somewhere, likely at the cable to terminal interface. Sometimes you'll have a partial (high resistance) contact to the batt due to corrosion and things like lights, radio, etc will work. Try to blip the key, though, and the large current draw creates a spark, maybe oxidizes the area of parital contact, and you have nothing. Wiggling the connection might bring it back, until you try a large current draw again. I think this might have happened when he was playing with the shifter, somehow or other, he ended up with parital contact, til he tried to start it. Now nothing again.

It'll boil down to something really simple. Just needs to be tracked down.

Well I found the problem, and i'm almost embarassed to say what it was. After checking most of the things mentioned I took another look at the battery. Prior to this I had only been able to work on the car in the dark with a flashlight.....fun fun. I noticed that the positive battery terminal did have some corrosion on it. Although I doubted that it was bad enough I cleaned it off and reconnected it. I jumped into the car, turned the key, and everything worked! I can't believe that I didn't notice this before, but at least it was something extremely simple. Thanks a million for the advice guys, I really believe that there isn't a problem out there that you guys couldn't solve.

Thanks again!

- Ben

The battery is toast...Time for a new one. It will keep leaking and corroding the cable.

Yes, when batteries are near the end of their life the start to corrode faster.

Course I like to get every blessed mile out of parts so I would end up keeping the battery in there. One dark cold night maybe a year from now I will be cursing on the side of the road with the dead battery I insisted on "using up".

Probably best to replace it within the year.

Yeah, I intend to replace it soon. I'm just happy that it wasn't anything serious.

What do I win. I think I won. why replace the battery, just make sure it's clean.

The battery isn't supposed to leak, and thats why his positive terminal corroded. The battery has failed. Most likely what will happen next is it will die again, but the battery terminal will pull out of the battery, and sometimes its very hard to try to seperate it, and you will wind up needing to replace the battery and the battery cable. Not to mention where you happen to be with the car when it decides to finally call it quits. Working for GM, I see this quite often. Spend the little money on the battery now, it will cost a lot more later.