Does anyone have any insight on "Pro Systems" carbs? I have an oppurtunity to pick up a 950 CFM Pro Systems Pro Series 4150 for my 468. It has 4,000 miles and asking $400.

Is anyone running one? Any advantages to these carbs? Any knowledge or input would be welcome. Thanks.


Jim

I believe that Ed Bigley and Todd Geisler run them.

I know several racers (besides Ed and Todd) who run Patrick's Carbs.

Top Notch carbs that are set up specifically per application.

When I get a new carb (someday), it will be from Pro-Systems

I have had a few - they work great. Just sold mine on racingjunk.com.

The original 406 combination I ran was first run with a standard 4779 750 double pumper. I then changed to a Pro-Systems 820Hp which is Patricks version of a 950HP. I saw very little ET difference with the carb swap...less than a tenth. Looking back, that combination was not terribly refined and I was not really using that carb to it's full potential.

When I swapped to a bbc, I sold the 4150 carb and bought a dyno 8896 dominator which only had a few dyno pulls on it...had to be true as it would not idle for shyt. I had it sent to Patrick for a rework. Ran much better, but again, that initial bbc combination was so mismatched the dominator wasn't being used to it's true potential. With Ed's (racer1320) recommendation I sold the dominator when I changed to the oval port heads. I then tried a friends old Carb Shop 850 4150 Holley...which I wound up buying as it worked quite well.

In the end, I felt that none of my engine combinations were so radical to need a custom tuned carb. I could have likely bought box stock Holley HP carbs and ran just as well. Also, the resale value of a used custom tuned carb is quite low in my experience as the next owner will more than likely not have a combination close to what yours was built for.

I would say that unless your looking for every .01 in ET you can possibly find, that you should save your $$$ and buy a box stock carb and tune it...perferably a HP series. Don't get me wrong, Patrick is probably one of the best carb builders/tuners out there (plus his tech support after the sale is excellent), but in most cases, his carbs are several levels above what our type of street/strip cars need for good performance.

My original intent was to buy a box stock 950 HP 4150. The engine I have built is similar to Ed's (racer 1320)468 combination that he had at one point in his '68.(or the "BSE" as some of you might remember).

This Pro Systems carb (950 Pro Series 4150) was/is on a 406. From what I understand Patrick sold (and I asume tuned) the carb for the owner's combination. After trying to live with the carb he said it was too big.

Now, a new stock 950 HP 4150 is close to $700. Would it be worth buying this Pro Systems carb for $400 and maybe having Patrick tune it for my BSE 468? What do you think?

I'd call Patrick and he can bring up the original purchasers account and look to see how close the tuneup is between the combination it was built for and compare it to your setup. He could then give you an idea of if any tweaks are needed and what cost is involved. That should give you the info needed to make your decision.

hth
Todd

Todd, I know there might not be a cut-and-dried answer to this, but how much does Patrick charge to do a tweak and tune?

Originally posted by 70_FathomBlueMalibu:
Todd, I know there might not be a cut-and-dried answer to this, but how much does Patrick charge to do a tweak and tune? IIRC he charge like $350 to go through the dominator I had.

When we talk about "custom" carbs and "special tuning" what exactly are we talking about?

What I mean is….(referring to my current situation) If someone has a Pro Systems 950cfm 4150 on a 406 that is custom made or tuned for that combo and I want to put it on my 468 what do I have to change to tune it for my engine. Are we talking about jets, power valves and other changeable parts or are there permanent modifications that will not allow you to use that carb on another engine.

If there are just basic interchangeable parts involved what would make the resale of a “custom carb” so undesirable? Assuming I don’t need to squeeze every last tenth (though I’d like to get as close as possible) out of my car, could I just get the necessary changeable pieces (jets, etc.) and call the tech line for some tuning settings?

I have a lot of respect for what Patrick and others like him are able to do to a carb. I’m not trying to downplay the work that they due. I’m just trying to better understand this process.

Patrick may want to change the fuel curve via the booster, emulsion tubes etc.

Sure, you could make an attempt with jets and air bleeds and it might work fine - but patrick is very good at what he does - you should give him a call.

He really supports his product - I just sold a carb to a fellow in MI and I gave him my spec sheet and carb number, and Patrick is helping the new owner.

I'm not bracket-racer-joe so I wasn't concerned about a hundreth of a second, I am still working with two or three tenths at a time, so it didn't make noticeably more power, but it ran VERY clean on the street, didn't load up the plugs at any speed, and the AFR on my wideband was very flat throughout the RPM range. It had great throttle response off idle, or anywhere from 1500 to 7500.

This might be easy to do on a smaller engine with small cam, but to work that well out of the box on a 632 street/strip with big chiefs and 286/296 @.050" roller it was well worth the money. It didn't have any intermediate circuit "burbles" and that are common with 1300+ cfm dominators with huge throttle blades. If I ever run another carb I will use patrick for sure.

I have had alot of experience with patrick, every application is differant-he may change boosters,the fuel curve,air bleeds and jets. He will want to know your camshaft profile and compression what the motor will be used for he will faxe you a sheet and plus here is one of the biggest benefits you can call him anytime and he will call you back asap and help you out. I had a nitrous backfire one time and just split the crap out of the carbs and he fixed them and you could not even tell (by the way it was the worst set he said he had ever saw) LOL! but out of the box nothing can compare to his quality of work and accuracy.

His stuff is usually within 1% from what I have seen. I have had over 12 sets and never ever had one problem send it to him you will not be disappointed!!!!Sean

"If I ever run another carb I will use patrick for sure."
Ryan, have you switched to fuel injection?

Let's just say I'm "in between" fuel systems. I sold my intake too. Leaving my options open for different power adder(s).

There is snow on the ground here - time to make some major changes!

Originally posted by 66 283:
Let's just say I'm "in between" fuel systems. I sold my intake too. Leaving my options open for different power adder(s).Geez, some guys are "in-between" girlfriends, and Ryan is "in-between" fuel systems. tongue.gif

What kind of E.T.'s are you looking to achieve next year? Are you looking for a "shock and awe" effort at next year's "Pump Gas Drags"? :cool:

Justin,

I am not sure that I will make it to the PGD's in 2005. I doubt that I would be invited again - there are a lot of great cars out there and I feel priveledged to go the first time, but if I am READY, I might just show up and raise some hell.

I do not have an ET in mind, but I can assure that I would not disappoint this time. I would like to go 175-180mph.

I am making some major changes including more power (and more streetable with less camshaft, heater, and radio back in), ~500lbs lighter, rear suspension improvements, and more tire. I am building a keeper shortblock slowly as money allows, but in the meantime I am throwing together a "sacrificial" short block together on the cheap and these parts do not owe me anything. (just yesterday I got a well used block for free.)

I just bought a used mig/tig welder and the SFI specs so my chassis will be SFI 25.5 legal to 7.50 while retaining stock interior and frame.

I got pro systems carb earlier this summer and I love it! I went from 11.3 (on motor) to 10.93 sec and picked up 3 mph. My 60 is also better. I have called him on sunday and friday nights he was more than happy to help and asked that I call him back and let him know what happened. The jetting was right were he said it would be (do not konw how this is pos?, but it was). I have problems with traction on the nitrous now off the line, it hits much harder. I know you will be happy if you get it. Call and talk to him.

Ryan, I have the issue of HRM / Pump gas drags..............I think I read that the MOST OUT OF CONTROL AWARD WINNER is automatic invite for next year's event. If not, it damn sure should be!!! You could always use your "Hey, I am the crazy Canadian that ran top MPH spinning the length of the track provisional postion card" graemlins/beers.gif

Invite or no invite, I can't wait to get it back together and flog the car somewhere sometime!