I've decided to go with a Solid Flat Tappet cam for my 383 stroker small block. I have also decided to go with the Dart Pro 1 64cc Heads instead of the AFR195's, reason being I can receive these heads bare, instead of coming assembled and then reassembling them with my own valves, and springs.

Question is, Will somebody help me decide the grind on my cam?

The car has a 4.11 gear, and a 3000 stall TH-350. The car will be street driven, weekend warrior though.

Thanks,
Joe Phillips

Harold's 276/284 is really hard to beat. Use 110LSA and it *might* run brakes. There's a few folks running that grind in sbc's quite successfully. Hope they pipe in. At least the specs are max for a street cam in a medium sized motor imho. 243/251@.050, which may be a bit big for your application, but its a starting point.

DO you have a target compression ratio? Do you need enough vaccum to run brakes?

I'd use direct lube lifters and Crane 99893 springs or equiv.Good luck with your cam choice!

No power brakes, and I'm using a manual secondary carb. The compression ration should be 10.5:1.


Thanks,
Joe Phillips

Joe, when you get the heads, if the funds are avalible, you might want to get a very good head porter to touch them up a bit. low lift number priority, keeping the intake runner small as possible. even if its only a bowl job it could help. Dave

I have that cam in my 406 and the brakes work fine with 10:1 compression. Good cam and your gears are probably better suited than my 3.42's. The cam wakes up right about where I cruise. I drive my car everyday too.

MaTt

Joe,
use the same grind i have, crower #00321 242/248 dur at .050" custom ground on a 108LSA.

Good choice on the heads, my recommendation is to have them bowl blended, and have a competition 5 or 7 angle valve job done.

I'm planning on running a dual plane edelbrock intake. Will this intake work with this cam choice? Along with a 750 Double pumper.

Thanks,
Joe Phillips

yeah, i use an edelbrock RPM intake with my combo, and a 750 proform bodied "double pumper".

I like Brian's cam. Imho, Harold's grind will make more power, but we're shaving hairs and there is no way to prove it. Although, I beleive the few folks running the A6 here make gobs of power. I would recommend the direct lube edm'd lifters if this engine will see street time, i.e., 2+ hr cruises, idling alot ,etc. Cheap insurance imho. It barely moved oil pressure in the 427, and it allows you to run a tighter rod side clearance keeping those bearings well lubed as the cam lobes now has a secondary source of lube. Anyway, mine sees heavy street duty, I felt it proper to add that feature especially in a cam as intense as the Lunati A6(726/284).

The Crower oil bleed lifters are $$$ and then you need their shorter purshrods which are $$$. Ended up being price competitive with a solid roller! :eek: If you do buy the cam from Crower, see if they'll give you a deal on edm'ing your lifters. They charged me $3.12 a pop to do a new set of Cranes. Again, only for heavy street/cruise useage, I'd pop on it.

BTW, a local shop said they could have done the edm work right here, so if you have an extremely well equipped shop locally, check it out. Most do not have the wire edm machine. Not a standard item.

thanks, but harolds grind on a 110LSA wont ET as quick, part of the reason my combo leaves hard (1.55 60ft) is the 108LSA.

What does EDM stand for?

"Electrical discharge machining".

It is actually done by a submerged electric spark eating away at what you want to machine. The electrode is sized for what you want to machine and is self comsumming as the machining eats both up over time..

pdq67

110 is a great compromise for a car that is STREET DRIVEN. 106-108 imho, is for a car that is rarely driven and often raced. In any case, the cam isn;t going to like 10.5:1, particularly on 106 or 108 lsa. If this is STREET DRIVEN, I don;t think you want to be spiking the fuel with race fuel or toluene everytime you fill up.

Frankly at 10.5:1, I;d go 112 lsa, and it still may not take 93 octane.

Having said that, I wouldn't use a bigger cam than that or Brian's, but they're not compatible with 10.5 and pump fuel. Nor is Brian's cam for that matter. He doesnt have 10.5:1 either. Be careful, you don;t wnat a finicky ride that only takes the best fuel. PITA.

Don't guess on the compression, cal'c it, and then calculate the DCR with various cams to approximate the pump fuel compatibility.


Easy, huh! :confused:

Guys,

Please note that the 110 LSA is for 'polite' street manners. Most of the SB276/284F's that were sold at UltraDyne were of the 106 ilk. The 276/284 was a race-winner in oval track for about 5 years before I made the first 110 LSA.
On Peter Guild's ProMotor Engineering's dyno, the 110 LSA made 430 BHP at 6200 in a 9.2:1 355. Not much, you say? In a 383 on Westech's dyno, it should make over 550 BHP.
Peter Guild builds engines for NASCAR racing.
Lunati will make the 401A6 on whatever LSA you want, for about a $5 surcharge.....

UDHarold

Originally posted by 427L88:
110 is a great compromise for a car that is STREET DRIVEN. 106-108 imho, is for a car that is rarely driven and often raced. In any case, the cam isn;t going to like 10.5:1, particularly on 106 or 108 lsa. If this is STREET DRIVEN, I don;t think you want to be spiking the fuel with race fuel or toluene everytime you fill up.

Frankly at 10.5:1, I;d go 112 lsa, and it still may not take 93 octane.

Having said that, I wouldn't use a bigger cam than that or Brian's, but they're not compatible with 10.5 and pump fuel. Nor is Brian's cam for that matter. He doesnt have 10.5:1 either. Be careful, you don;t wnat a finicky ride that only takes the best fuel. PITA.

Don't guess on the compression, cal'c it, and then calculate the DCR with various cams to approximate the pump fuel compatibility.


Easy, huh! :confused: I have a 108 LSA, and i've used my car as a DAILY DRIVER on occasion, and i drive almost 2 hours too and from one of the race tracks i race at.

His 10.5:1 is theoretical, he hasnt bought the heads yet. if you are worried about the pump gas compatability, use a 72cc chamber, and keep the 108LSA.

if he wants to keep the 10.5:1, then use 6 degrees more duration on each lobe.
For example:

The Crower #00322 ground on a 108LSA has 248/254 duration, and more then likely ET quicker in my combo.

Although in my motor, with that cam i would have it ground on a 106 LSA to emphasize Mid-range power production.

My friend's 3200lb 69' camaro had a 10.5:1 355" motor with 244/252 duration at .050" ground on a 106LSA, he drove it too and from the track for years, racing on 94 oct. gas and it had 4.56 gears, a glide and a 10" converter as well.
60fting 1.50 and breaking into the 10.90's in very good air.

Brain, IMHO, he be better off fittting the compression ratio to one of the cams we mentioned, rather than going bigger on a cam or widening out the lsa to 114 or so. Solids in the 240@.050 range make great street cams.

And we must be careful of various definitions of street here. My "street" is clearly different ( and more restrictive) than most definitions of street.

No matter, only definition of street that matters here is Joe's and no one elses. Joe, maybe you can clarify if you mean drive it to the track a few times a month or more daily driving?

After reading How great this cam is (401A6), you guys got me wondering what the hell is wrong with my car. Its quick, but not lightning fast. Time to go play with the carb. WOuld a stock 1980 Z28 fuel pump feed this thing? Just curious.

MaTt

Exactly, fit the compression ratio to one of the two cams i suggested.

if you want to err on the safe side, then go with my compression ratio of 10:1, with a 72cc chamber, and .045" quench, with a 6cc valve relief piston (I used SRP).

Hi guys, I appreciate all of the replies.

My definition of a street car. I will drive it about 3 or 4 times a week around town. My race track is about 45 minutes away, and I would love to have the option of driving it to the track, but I would have to go down the highway. (US 30- 65-2- US 41.)

All I want to do for street is beable to drive it through town for a matter of say an hour or so. I dont mind having to trailer the car to the track (as long as i'm in the 11's ;) ).

Harold, can you grind the 401A6 on a 110 LSA? With the 10.5 CR will I beable to run this motor on 94 octane? I'm using a flat top piston with a 64 CC dome head.


thanks,
Joe Phillips

if your goal is 11's i strongly suggest a 108LSA. if you are worried about it, race with 100oct.

With that CR, personally, I'd run Harold's 288/??? cam on a 108 LSA and 102 ICL. DCR is around 8.28 with 10.5 SCR. Even with a 110 LSA and 104 ICL, the DCR is 8.14. With 4º advance (106 ICL) the dcr is 8.00.

Joe,

The 288/296F would be great in a street car, I have had a number of them in real street cars---Just ask Chris_69_SS about his BBC. He has a wav. file in the archives somewhere, so you can hear it idle.....
The specs are 288/296 at .020, 255/263 at .050, .540"/.556" valve lift, and the 108 LSA, if you so desire. Lunati's part number is 50199 for a custom SBC solid cam, and the grind number is 01-UF1-UF5-08-A01. Ask for Steve, ext 126. He worked for me at UltraDyne for about 13 years and is very familar with this cam.
Your converter and rear gears are perfect. Use a high volume Holley or Carter mech pump and 1/2" fuel line. It will even work with 1.6s, if you want to. Spring pressure should be about 130-135 lbs on the seat, 330-340 lbs open, broken in with outer springs only.
You will love this cam.....

UDHarold

Pat, with the cam that Harold recommends, I can run around on the street and not have any problems with pump gas (using 94 octane)?? What should I set the timing at? (Total, Initial and advance.) Or should I lock the timing in at a certain degree? I was thinking about putting a vacuum advance on the car.

Harold, this cam isnt too radical for the street? I would have figured it would be, but what do I know? =0) It sounds like an awesome setup, do you recommend any type of lifter? I know that they say to EDM them, but what lifter should I begin with? I plan on using a crower stainless 1.6 rocker. Does this sound like the hot ticket to stomp the car on down into the 11's?

Thanks,
Joe Phillips

It really depends on what you want. If you like a radical sounding and powerful engine, this cam will do it. If you want a smooth idle or good gas mileage, this isn't the cam you want. I'd install it at 102º (6º advance) for racing but you could install it at 104º (4º advance) for a bit of ping protection on the street.

I'd start with 16º initial and 38º total plus 10º vacuum advance. Hook the vacuum adv to manifold vacuum. Locking the dist is a race only deal. BTW, in most cases 1.6 rockers work best when used only on the intakes. With the right gears, tires, and suspension, 11's will be a snap.

Ok I asked this question before and maybe this is why my car is running so poorly with this cam. If I installed this cam using the 0* keyway showing the cam dot-dot, is this not 4* advanced where the next setting would be 8*? I have read that most cams have 4* ground in the core. Do Lunati's? Im confused.

MaTt

Matt, don't guess at anything, where the cam is ground etc. Without the hassle of pulling the balancer and cover to measure it correctly, use Harold's quick and dirty method of checking cam timing using the relative position of #1 valves when the motor is in #6 firing postion. You'll want to see the intake valve closer to the head surface than the exhaust for proper phasing of Harold's cams. Pull the valve cover and check it out.

Hey, I had a shop assemble, I happened to check with the Q-n-D method, and found the cam -8, not +6!!! As I rolled the motor over by hand to #6 TDC, the intake was opening and the exhaust closing, but at #6TDC, the exhaust was still closer to the heads surface. Careful how you measure it ( you can almost eyeball it for a rough check ), and you have to have TRUE TDC on your balancer.

This was during intial run in so I never knew how it performed there. With the cam in +7, I am really impressed with the power output of the lil 440. Watch P/V clearances when you change cam phasing.

Yes, with such limited street use, defintely tighten up LSA to 108, but 10.5:1 is not going to work with the *right* sized cam. 10:1 as stated.

Are the Dart Pro 1's iron?

The 288 cam is kind of big for your stall. If you want 60ft's better than 1.7's use more stall or the smaller cam. What converter do you have?

64cc heads and flat tops in a 383 is more like 10.8 or so.

12-609-5 Compcams OR something equal!!! :D

Lonnie,

Actually the 288/296F8 is PERFECT with a 3000 stall converter and a 4.10 gear. It has good power below 3000, and will pull to 7500. I have had hundreds in street cars just like this. Some have been in for over 10 years.
It hasn't been my most popular cam grind for nothing, although most were made on 105 LSA and installed at 99 ATDC....

UDHarold

Originally posted by Motor Martyr:
Joe,
use the same grind i have, crower #00321 242/248 dur at .050" custom ground on a 108LSA.

Good choice on the heads, my recommendation is to have them bowl blended, and have a competition 5 or 7 angle valve job done. How is the idle and power brakes with that cam? What do you shift at? What compression you running?

I've been looking at this cam for my street/strip 355 and would be curious on your overall thoughts...do you think it would be okay cruising at 2K or so on highway if I had overdrive?

Originally posted by UDHarold:
Lonnie,

Actually the 288/296F8 is PERFECT with a 3000 stall converter and a 4.10 gear. It has good power below 3000, and will pull to 7500. I have had hundreds in street cars just like this. Some have been in for over 10 years.
It hasn't been my most popular cam grind for nothing, although most were made on 105 LSA and installed at 99 ATDC....

UDHarold Harold,

I agree it will have good power at 3k, but it will have great power at 4k.

If he's only going to run regular street tires, it makes no difference.

I'm not bashing the cam, that's the one I bought. With 3k stall and slicks, it'll probably ET better with the smaller choice.

Originally posted by AllGoNoShow:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Motor Martyr:
Joe,
use the same grind i have, crower #00321 242/248 dur at .050" custom ground on a 108LSA.

Good choice on the heads, my recommendation is to have them bowl blended, and have a competition 5 or 7 angle valve job done. How is the idle and power brakes with that cam? What do you shift at? What compression you running?

I've been looking at this cam for my street/strip 355 and would be curious on your overall thoughts...do you think it would be okay cruising at 2K or so on highway if I had overdrive? </font>[/QUOTE]Mine idles at 950rpms in gear, 1250 out of gear. I like to have the idle somewhat on the highside, to made cold starts and cold running easier.
12-13" of vacuum in gear.
My power brakes fade on and off, but i have an 8" diaphram, with a big GM size diaphram they should work fine.

My shift points are still being played with, but i've found 6000rpms to be the best so far.

I dont see why it would be a problem with Overdrive, but with a 108LSA, this is for a street/strip car, for a car that sees only street use, 6 degrees less duration and a 110 LSA would suite the power range that you use most on the street.

I have daily driven this car, but your definition of streetable might be much different then mine, where i dont mind 3200rpms on the highway, some think its wayyyy to much.

As of now I am at 3200 RPM at 60 mph with the 235/60/15 tires. I will be changing to a 275/60/15 though, and this should drop me to about 2900 rpm. Hopefully.

I believe I am going to run the cam that Harold has suggested. The specs 288/296 at .020, 255/263 at .050, .540"/.556" valve lift, and the 108 LSA. I will run a Pro Billet Distributor with vacuum advance. I will run an Edelbrock EPS Dual Plane intake, and a Holley 750 double pumper.

I am still a little hung up on what lifters to run. Other than I know to EDM them. Should I use the Lunati Solid Flat tappet lifters?


What about pushrods, any certain type to look at, or anything I should know about them? (Such as legnth)

Thanks,
Joe Phillips

You'll need to have the cam installed and setup the valvetrain to know what length pushrods you need. More than likely, stock length will work but you need to check. Wrong length pushrods will side load the valve guides and cause premature wear.

Originally posted by Jp-15:
As of now I am at 3200 RPM at 60 mph with the 235/60/15 tires. I will be changing to a 275/60/15 though, and this should drop me to about 2900 rpm. Hopefully.

I believe I am going to run the cam that Harold has suggested. The specs 288/296 at .020, 255/263 at .050, .540"/.556" valve lift, and the 108 LSA. I will run a Pro Billet Distributor with vacuum advance. I will run an Edelbrock EPS Dual Plane intake, and a Holley 750 double pumper.

I am still a little hung up on what lifters to run. Other than I know to EDM them. Should I use the Lunati Solid Flat tappet lifters?


What about pushrods, any certain type to look at, or anything I should know about them? (Such as legnth)

Thanks,
Joe Phillips In my opinion its too big for the compression, CID and RPM range of the motor you want to build.

You wont see 7500rpms on the street, and you dont need to spin the motor to 7500rpms to run high 11's. I've shifted my motor at 5000rpms and was still in the 11's even turning the tire.

Just to give you an idea, my motor doesnt "turn on" until 3000-3500rpms and its focused on mid-range power. A 7500rpms motor is going to turn on at roughly 4000-4500rpms, and you will need an 8" converter with it.

Just telling you what i think you need to know, if what you like/want is a 7500rpms motor, then thats fine, but if its not really what you want then you should reconsider your decision on the cam.

I'm running the 288/296 cam in my 400 that I've had running for about a month. It will probably peak sooner then 7500 in a 383 but will have some idle issues. The F10 will be better then my F5 that pulls 8" of vacuum at idle with a manual.

*Probably have to drill throttle blades or crack secondaries.
*May not have enough vacuum for vacuum advance or power brakes.
* May have PCV issues

Dyno showed torque peeking at 3600 RPM and staying there until 6000. HP was still climbing at 6000 with 400 at the wheels. Pass on the Darts and get some nice rebuilt Vortecs from Tri-City for $450 or the Jegs 195 Canfields.

You just can't beat the Vortec heads.

hilljack, what's your full combo?

400 +.030
6" rods
11:1
Dart pro 1 heads 215CC
288/296F5
Super Vic
HP950
2.5 mandrel out the back
4.11
ST-10
1.75 super comps
275-60-15

I might try an RPM and see what happens. Combo is still pretty much out of the box. Dyno says it's pretty rich. I just pulled the intake off to drill for Vacuum port and jet carb.

What about Harold's 276/284, Marty? With 110 LSA? You're correct, if I can't run the 10" convertor, and I wont have any lowend (below 3500 RPM), then I dont want that.


Thanks,
Joe Phillips

Originally posted by hilljack:
400 +.030
6" rods
11:1
Dart pro 1 heads 215CC
288/296F5
Super Vic
HP950
2.5 mandrel out the back
4.11
ST-10
1.75 super comps
275-60-15

I might try an RPM and see what happens. Combo is still pretty much out of the box. Dyno says it's pretty rich. I just pulled the intake off to drill for Vacuum port and jet carb.

Dyno showed torque peeking at 3600 RPM and staying there until 6000. HP was still climbing at 6000 with 400 at the wheels. Pass on the Darts and get some nice rebuilt Vortecs from Tri-City for $450 or the Jegs 195 Canfields.
=
I don't mean to be argumentative here but with that combo of parts there is no way the torque peak is at 3600 ;)

My guess would be 4800-5200 area for a torque peak.
Did you mean it started making decent power at 3600?

Originally posted by Wolfplace:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by hilljack:
400 +.030
6" rods
11:1
Dart pro 1 heads 215CC
288/296F5
Super Vic
HP950
2.5 mandrel out the back
4.11
ST-10
1.75 super comps
275-60-15

I might try an RPM and see what happens. Combo is still pretty much out of the box. Dyno says it's pretty rich. I just pulled the intake off to drill for Vacuum port and jet carb.

Dyno showed torque peeking at 3600 RPM and staying there until 6000. HP was still climbing at 6000 with 400 at the wheels. Pass on the Darts and get some nice rebuilt Vortecs from Tri-City for $450 or the Jegs 195 Canfields.
=
I don't mean to be argumentative here but with that combo of parts there is no way the torque peak is at 3600 ;)

My guess would be 4800-5200 area for a torque peak.
Did you mean it started making decent power at 3600? </font>[/QUOTE]YEAH! smile.gif

Originally posted by Jp-15:
What about Harold's 276/284, Marty? With 110 LSA? You're correct, if I can't run the 10" convertor, and I wont have any lowend (below 3500 RPM), then I dont want that.


Thanks,
Joe Phillips Joe,
The cam i run has 274/282 dur advertised (i believe .015", have to double check) and 242/248 at .050" so it will be similar to the 276/284.
However if you want to see 11's my suggestion is My cam on a 108LSA, custom ground.

Yeah, while I'm sure there are some intricate differences on the flanks between those two cams, but generally, they're very similar.

Man, I run that in a 440 cid mill, you guys do like big cams!( I would've gone bigger if my heads weren't huge) Y'all must be taking after Harold!

He, He, He!!!!

Something about a bug??? I think it is called the dreaded, "more power, Scottie", bug if not mistaken...

Just had to AND please carry on...

pdq67

I think the 274 will be too small for a 10.5 CR. I think you will run into detonation problems. I wouldn't go any smaller than a 286º adv duration. If the actual CR is 10.0 or less then the 274 would work.

Everyone,

The 288/296F is not particularly noted for its' top-end power, although it is very good. In a 12.5:1 355 with a Holley 750 it will peak about 7000.
What it is noted for is its' extremely good bottom-end. When cut on 105 LSA, it has good power at 3000. When cut on 108, it has good power even lower.
Is it a Hot Street cam? Yes, Sir! Will it work in a 10.5:1 SBC? Of course....
It all depends upon what you want. I have many more milder solids, as many of you are familar with.

UDHarold

Harold I can't seem to find the Idle clip of chris's. Can anyone help me out and post it? Harold how do I go about ordering this cam, Can I just email you with the specs and have you put in the order for me?


Thanks,
Joe Phillips

God, I can't wait until December....
Details here first, right?

Cheers,
(Maker's) Mark.