Just put K&N air filter in the Chevelle. What a nice improvement in performance!! Smoother and quicker acceleration. Maybe I'll get another half a mile to the gallon too!

skier - they are sweet. i have one too! :eek: :eek: :eek:

Do you happen to have a part number for the K&N filter that would replace the stock filter on a 70 cowl induction air cleaner housing?
Thanks

Jeff

ss jeff - i am running the k&n in my stock cowl set up, i'll see if i can track down that # :D

Just look for the part # thats for a K&N 14 x 3 filter at www.summitracing.com (http://www.summitracing.com)

ssjeff - sorry i don't have the part# for your cowl housing....your Chevelle is beautiful. What a paint job!!

Chris...thanks for that info. I'll give them a call.

70convt...hopefully I can get it through Summit.

Bob, thanks for the kind words. graemlins/waving.gif

Jeff

Jeff,click here..this is the 14 x 3.5"

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=KNN%2DE%2D3728R&N=120+4294925239+4294925170+304435

Yeah, I hear they can be worth 1 or 2 HP over a paper type element and more if the filter that it replaced was dirty. I wonder if the flow decreases after washing many times.

I run one as well, and even have the X-Stream top plate, IMHO, the tops are worth it. I have a cowl hood, and most of the air appears to go down the lid, as it gets dirty more then twice as fast as the round air cleaner itself. They are great and I won't run anything else now.

I agree with Wayner. I also have the setup that includes the lid. I would highly recommend it. It pulls air through my cowl hood. I was at the track this past weekend and noticed several race cars also running the complete K&N setup.

wasn't it debunked a LONG time ago that unless you write for a magazine whose wages are paid by K&N or you just want the stickers to impress your friends, your money is better spent on a wix or other cheapie?

do any of you above work for K&N or personally sell the product?

66 283, I really could care less about the performance aspect, but isn't it cost effective to have a filter that you can clean instead of a paper cheapie that gets clogged? I can understand that I'd by a cheapie too if it was a strip-only or weekend warrior. But what about us guys that drive our cars daily, on the highway, for hours at a time? All I know is my racing buddy (if you can call our slow action racing, lol) has to borrow one of my filters to race with because his cheapies are always clogged, the clog often, and his car doesn't perform very well with it clogged.

So as far as performance of a clean cheapie and a K&N, I doubt there's much. But a K&N seems to take much longer to clog, and I bet it'll out-perform a dirty cheapie.

Whatever floats your boat I guess.

Oh, and I DON'T work for K&N and I did NOT even pay for MY K&N filter.

This is an interesting topic. I always used them in my cars but I got turned on to this bobistheoilguy.com site. They have alot of people there that have done used oil analyses on engines that use K+N filters and the conclusion is that they don't do a very good job of filtering. Check out the site, there really is alot of great info there.

Originally posted by 66 283:
wasn't it debunked a LONG time ago that unless you write for a magazine whose wages are paid by K&N or you just want the stickers to impress your friends, your money is better spent on a wix or other cheapie?

do any of you above work for K&N or personally sell the product? Can you provde a link to this debunking or more info. on that?
I don't work for K & N, nor do I sell auto parts (filters)
We are all entitled to our opinions and to express our experieances within the site rules.

Here's the link 69ttop502 was talking about.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest3.htm

Mike

Basically the 411 on air filters is this:

K&N filters let more dirt (or larger particles)past the filter, thus they last longer between cleanings and flow a bit better on some flow tests. Not rocket science here, as larger pores in the filter element nab a bit better flow and let more dirt past the filter.

Paper elements filter better and when the same size filters are used they have very little or any performance loss for most streetable engines. My 600hp big block gained nothing significant on the dyno swapping between the two.

Personally this is one of those things that ricers whine and argue all the time and I just sit back and laugh. Buy what you want, but I guarentee you from a performance stand point it will not change your rwhp or ET's a bit. You are much wiser to look at your air induction, filter size, intake design, etc. etc. if you are looking for more power rather then your filtering material.

Sounds good. I'll keep my K&N around for now. I know the pros and cons and I'm okay with it. I like the way it looks and although it seems it lets more dirt through, I bet it is still better than running no filter.

I'll keep this in mind if I ever build a car that is all go, no show.

Thanks for the info everyone.

I'd take that bet Captn....I picked up 2 tenths going from paper to no air filter, swapped to K&N then removed it with no performance gain on a different trek to the track. I've got many passes on my car,still runs as good as it did 3 years ago when I started running points,,seems if it was inhaling all this dirt,it would have "bit the dust" a long time ago. I am also running a K&N filter in my 98 Silverado and it has over 165K on it and it still runs like a champ and doesnt use oil...if all this dirt was going thru either motor they would not have lasted. We have as many dirt roads here in Missouri as you do up there in Minnesooooooota :D

yep, i have a '95 z71 that's had a kn in it. has 135k on it now, and runs like new.

Originally posted by k20mike:
Here's the link 69ttop502 was talking about.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest3.htm

Mike Thanks for the link! After reading it, I will continue to use K&N! There are trade offs, and I am willing to accept them!

You really need to explore the website in the air filter section of that website where people post their used oil analyses results. It is very interesting reading. Granted these guys are really into it, but it does make you think.

When I dynoed my car 2 months ago I tried a K&N extreme & it made no diff. at all on my combo.

Two quick thoughts:

1. The number one problem with K&N is that they get cleaned TOO OFTEN. Leave it the hell alone until the crust gets thick, except to perhaps add a bit more oil. The dust layer absorbs oil out of the gauze, and you may need to replenish it.

2. It does a better job of filtering with a layer of dirt on the outside.

http://www.knfilters.com/facts.htm#WASHABLE

http://www.knfilters.com/facts.htm#PAPER

Check Here
http://home.usadatanet.net/~jbplock/ISO5011/SPICER.htm

Hmmm. That ISO5011 test stuff was pretty interesting. It looks like the AC and the Baldwin filters really do a good job, but with a bit of restriction. Seems odd that they did not test a Fram filter as those seem to be on the shelves of every store I go into.

A K&N will resist catching fire after a nitrous pop or cranking backfire. Paper and foam like to burn and get sucked into the motor - or - get attacked by a eager-beaver track worker with a fire extinguisher.

What a mess!


MAT

Wow - although I do "feel" the difference with my new K&N, I think I'll post a topic before I make a purchase from now on...... Great feedback on this post....I'm off to the Exxon Station to get fuel.....or should I go to Mobil?? smile.gif

Naaaa, go to Shell smile.gif

I have a real world experience with a K&N filter I would like to share.
One of my vehicles is an 03 Silverado with a 6.6 Duramax turbo diesel with 520ft/lbs torque stock. This engine has a flat element paper pleated air filter roughly 12" square and has a "plugged filter" 'pop' gauge that measures vacuum on the intake side of the filter to tell you when the filters plugged.
I installed a 4" exhaust and straight through muffler (like an Ultraflo) and a Banks Sixgun tuner computer and a Banks wastegate. Torque went up to 850 ft/lbs.
With a new paper air filter, the filter gauge would pop into the red every time I got on it hard. I installed a K&N in the stock air box and now it never comes out of the green zone on the gauge!
Hmm wonder why

FYI Napa Gold filters are reboxed Wix filters

wasn't it debunked a LONG time ago that unless you write for a magazine whose wages are paid by K&N or you just want the stickers to impress your friends, your money is better spent on a wix or other cheapie?Yup. I'm with 66 283 on this one. While a K&N may show gains on a car with a very small filter area (stock applications), the avaerage performance car with a 14" open element will see no gains, and you'll have a filter that does an inferior job of filtering.

Run what you want. I have dumped my K&N for a good paper filter.

a local guy here with a chassis dyno did back to back testing on many different types of cars, K&N vs stock, and found that the K&N actually made the same or LESS power!

You will never read that in the magazines because their wages are paid by K&N advertising.

Roads must be clean here because my Tundra has the same filter since 130K and it's now at 217K and the filter looks fine. On the LUMP i have had the same wix 16x4 filter on it since maybe 1997? I've never had a backfire so it's never caught on fire MAT. LOL.

I have noticed recently that other filter companies are now making cleanable filters that resemble the K & N, Holley has a line out and Air Hogg. Summit also has their own line.
I wonder why these companies are trying to copy a product if its really not that good.
There has to be more to this.

Originally posted by wayner:

I wonder why these companies are trying to copy a product if its really not that good.
There has to be more to this. ..just because someone copies something doesn't mean the original idea is good ;)

I personally don't use K&N filters in any of my cars,nor do I plan to.The only product I have used is their carb stub stack..seems to be worth about a half to 3/4 of a tenth
If you feel the filter works well in your application,thats fine by me.

I wonder why these companies are trying to copy a product if its really not that good.
Why? Because there is money to be made from ricers that think a K&N will add 15 hp to thier winged Honda. Might as well snag some of that market.

Originally posted by novadude:
Why? Because there is money to be made from ricers that think a K&N will add 15 hp to thier winged Honda. Might as well snag some of that market. [/QB][/QUOTE]

Well, I am not a ricer and run one, there were several members here that ,mentioned they run them as well, I don't think they are ricers either.
Its more then ricers that are running them, take a look at the engines in the pits at races and at engines at show n shines, there are alot of folks running them, good or bad, but definetly not ricers!

I can certaily understand wanting to get in on market share.
But to copy a product that has apprently been debunked by Official ISO testing, as oposed to exposing and making public the info on debunking.

I was not saying that everyone that runs one is a ricer... just saying that there is a big market out there, and money to be made based on K&Ns sucessful advertising. smile.gif

Fact is, they DO flow better, but at the price of letting more dirt in your engine. Personally, I think a clean 14x3 or 14x4 element can flow enough air to feed all but the baddest engines. I'd rather have the filtration, and low filter replacement costs. If you factor in the cost of the cleaner and oil, it seems to me that it will take a long time for the "payoff" of running a K&N.

As for seeing the K&Ns on many show cars / drag cars, that does not tell me anything about how well the filter works. It DOES say that K&Ns advertising works, though! ;)

There was a test done recently and the KN filtered car had 20% more Silica (dirt) in the oil than the car that ran a stock paper element.

what's a "ricer" and how do I know if I am one or not?

"Ricer" refers to those who drive and like to modify imports.

WOW - between my slowmasters and K&N - don't know what I'm going to do.

Better give me 4 car lengths and the go...just to even things out a bit. This car stuff always baffles me.

MAT

I've installed K&N Filters on nearly every vehicle that I've owned (that I planned on keeping for a while, anyway)and in just about every instance, noticed a difference in seat-of-the-pants acceleration. Another nice thing is that if it is on an everyday driver, you don't have to change it all the time. It may not make a huge difference in HP or ET, but I, for one, believe there is a benefit from using them due to my own first-hand experience. I believe the biggest benefit is that it doesn't hamper performance after some mileage is put on it as much as a paper element would after the same amount of mileage. Basically, it flows better when clogged than a paper filter does. I don't believe in this conspiracy theory that the mags are pushing them due to advertising. They advertise for companies that directly compete with K&N, namely Accel and Fram, too.

My two cents is K&N filters do not filter well in dusty areas based on dust tracks I find inside my air cleaner and through the entrance of my carb(venturis, choke, down to the throttle blades).

Over oiling the K&N also causes a reduction in air flow and a tendency to attract more dirt.

That said my car "feels" faster with a K&N than a paper filter.

Originally posted by 4spdrat:
"Ricer" refers to those who drive and like to modify imports. I believe you should modify that to say "japanese or korean imports". German cars are far from ricers, and there are several that will hand you your ass.

I like the K&N lids, The idea of drawing air down, instead of in sideways, seems like a winner. Not sure of the value of a K&N on a car with a mass air flow sensor, the oil can cause problems on some.

I just bought one because it matched my purple car.

Originally posted by MAT:
WOW - between my slowmasters and K&N - don't know what I'm going to do.

Better give me 4 car lengths and the go...just to even things out a bit. This car stuff always baffles me.

MAT MAT, I will give you lengths because of the K AND N and the slowmasters, but first, I must know your DYNAMIC COMPRESSION RATIO also known as DCR for short.

Lets all not forget the beauty of the paper filter...just throw it away and put a new one on when need be.

Low maintenace is what I'm all about.

Like paper plates...yea there not as nice and China, but who cares?

My DCR is really low cause I leave the valves open for soooooo long....better give me 5 lengths.

K&N - keeping the rocks out of my motors since '88.

MAT

I'll make it 3 lengths. How will I know if you don't have one of those new fangled UD Harold camshafts?? Damn, make it no lengths, a little bird told me that you use the same pan gaskets at the famous BSE combo! :eek:

I hear the BSE combo pan gasket is able to make more passes and is more consistent than the Ryan combo pan gasket though,with about 200 fewer cubic inches and no spray :D

LOL. His bitches are still defending even his pan gaskets to the end of the earth LOL. I use a billet pan and no gasket. If I wanted to go consistent lazy mid/high 10's for the rest of my life I would build a mild small block.

(but I think long before I woke up one morning and wanted to run consistently slow I would take my own life! graemlins/boring.gif )

:D

A billet pan with a hole in it, about the size of a connecting rod big end, right?

graemlins/thumbsup.gif Brian :D I guess if you call towing all the way to Memphis to skate down the track and not make a full pass :confused: fun,and ventilate the block while doing so...then you Canadians have a unique way of entertaining yourselves...LOL

I like parking it in the garage,waiting til the following weekend,loading it up and going racing again.

If my car was a slug like either of yours I would never break parts either LOL.

You wannabees aren't worth any more of my time - unless you have something to contribute about K&N filters :rolleyes:

I contributed to the thread,,you denounced the filters Ryan...then who got off on the BSE tangent? seems like you need to practice what you preach. I'll take my slug anyday over a blowed up 600 ci nitrous enhanced garage ornament.

Exactly what bob said.

I ended up getting a K&N extreme lid and 14 inch element at a swap meet for 50 bucks, for my 66SS.

They dont help with power much if at all but for 50 bucks how could I pass that up. Its nice to be able to wash it even though it is going to take years to get dirty since it sits half the year during winter anyways.

And I have to agree. This reusable air filter thing got bigger when the ricers got popular.

Chris.

personal experience. A std 14by3 filter will not feed a 750cfm carb. Wix is much better than Fram but they still are a restriction. A 14by3 KN will show a marked performance increase over a paper element if you have an open element air cleaner. The late model too small air cleaners are a real restriction any change is better whether it is to a KN or the open ended aftermarket types.

When we used to run dirt oval cars we'd use a K&N and spray the insides of the air cleaner housing with lithium grease. After a dusty night the inside of the base and lid would be full of dust, let alone what went past into the engine. This was properly cleaning and spraying the filter.