Hey guys,

I've been posting in the engine forum but I think I might have been pulling a newb move and posting in the wrong forum. What I have been looking at is suggestions on building my engine. Here is what I have acquired so far and have had a few suggestions.

350 4 bolt, 40 over now probably take 60 over to clean it
186 Camel hump heads, 2.02 1.60
set of solid roller lifters
Holley projection 4d system
HEI Distributor

I was looking at a Predator cam with these specs

PREDATOR CAMS

ENGINE: 265-400 SMALL BLOCK CHEVY

CAM GRIND NO: SR-3509-3509-10

INTAKE EXHAUST

DURATION .050: 224 224

LOBE LIFT: .350 .350

LOBE SEPARATION: 110 110

ADVERTISED DURATION: 260 260

GROSS VALVE LIFT: .525 .525

Should I even consider trying to do this with a 350 and go just go with 383? or scrap it all and get a big block. I was looking to make power around 1.5/2k up to 6/6.5k Not knowing alot about solid rollers I'm going off what I have read on cam sites.

Right now I'm really open to suggestion. I want something streetable, but not your typical stock truck with flowmasters garbage that everyone seems to have :D

Oh yeah, what the heck is the difference between a regular BBC and a tall block? :D

First, get some later heads. The double-humps had their day in the sun a long time ago.

Since you're planning to bore the block to 4.060, you'll have to buy new pistons. The thing to do now is figure out exactly what you want the car to do. This will help you decide which cam you really want to use. Don't forget to factor your gears and converter into the equation. Get the heads and pistons to match.

Remember, the entire combo needs to work together.

Originally posted by 70 Elco Joe:
Hey guys,

I've been posting in the engine forum but I think I might have been pulling a newb move and posting in the wrong forum. What I have been looking at is suggestions on building my engine. Here is what I have acquired so far and have had a few suggestions.

350 4 bolt, 40 over now probably take 60 over to clean it
186 Camel hump heads, 2.02 1.60
set of solid roller lifters
Holley projection 4d system
HEI Distributor

I was looking at a Predator cam with these specs

PREDATOR CAMS

ENGINE: 265-400 SMALL BLOCK CHEVY

CAM GRIND NO: SR-3509-3509-10

INTAKE EXHAUST

DURATION .050: 224 224

LOBE LIFT: .350 .350

LOBE SEPARATION: 110 110

ADVERTISED DURATION: 260 260

GROSS VALVE LIFT: .525 .525

Should I even consider trying to do this with a 350 and go just go with 383? or scrap it all and get a big block. I was looking to make power around 1.5/2k up to 6/6.5k Not knowing alot about solid rollers I'm going off what I have read on cam sites.

Right now I'm really open to suggestion. I want something streetable, but not your typical stock truck with flowmasters garbage that everyone seems to have :D

Oh yeah, what the heck is the difference between a regular BBC and a tall block? :D Everything all revolves around what the intended use is going to be. Since it's going in a truck, I personally feel you'd be better off building a 388ci, that extra torque from that stroke will get you truck moving easier then a shorter one. As for the camel hump heads, they're ok as long as their ported, etc. to get the air moving. If it's going in a daily driver truck, looking for that extra umph for hauling/towing i believe you should be fine. If you're looking just for power and will probably use it on the stip, I'd suggest going with better heads. If budget is an issue, you can get a good set of vortech heads that I believe will flow just as good or even better then a set of camel humps that have extensive work done. Personally, I don't really care for vortech heads, but they are quality parts. If you've got the cash, you can always opt for some AFRs, Trick Flow, Merlins/Wold/Motown heads, etc. As for the cam, I'm no cam expert, but the lift sure sounds nice to me :D . Someone else, maybe even UDHarold can help you out in the cam department, maybe even set you up with a better one. Now, if you're looking for all out raw power/torque, and have the cash, then you can obviously go with a big block. The difference between a stock deck height block and a tall deck is that a tall deck is an aftermarket block. It has been raised to accomodate a longer stroke, so that way the rods can clear the cam and inside of the block with ease. If, I've left anything out, I'm sure someone else will jump in and take over where I left off. Good luck with your project and welcome the TC and the great world of car crafting! graemlins/thumbsup.gif

New heads are definite option. I was probably going to have several $100 dollars in work done to them just to get the lift, springs, guide plates and screw studs done so I might as well just get a new set. I have been toying with the idea of stroking it to a 383 anyways so that just puts me closer to doing it.

This is my toy now, so I want to make it as fun as possible. I was looking at 3:55 gears and probably a 2400 stall converter if needed.

Thanks for the info and letting me know what the heck a tall deck block was smile.gif

My 383 project has been on hold for a while. I have the block clearanced and the rotating assembly balanced. The heads are ready to go too.

I'm running with dished pistons so I can run a smaller cam without detonation issues.

Just remember that with more low end torque (stroker) you can run a little higher gear (lower numerically) and still get the same performance down low while "walking tall" up high without over-revving the engine.

My 357 (.040 over 350) with flat-tops, vortec heads, and a mild solid cam runs very nice from 2000-6500 with 3.55 gears, 26" tires, and an overdrive. You can see my cam specs by linking from my web-site.

BTW, why do you ask such stupid questions? ;) (Just kidding) If you don't know the answer, your question isn't stupid.

Watch it I'm senstitive! graemlins/clonk.gif

Nice website Chad, thanks for all the input. I find that the more I look around the less it seems like I know :D I found that set of mechanical rollers for dirt cheap so I really want to use them. I noticed that the rollers seem to have a huge lift compared to the flat tappets but are rated for less stall. Having a hard time getting used to that ;)

Now to find a set of Vortec heads (man I really wanted to stay away from centerbolt valve covers) :D

Originally posted by 70 Elco Joe:
Now to find a set of Vortec heads (man I really wanted to stay away from centerbolt valve covers) :D You can always buy a center bolt to outside diameter adapter ( I think that's what it's called tongue.gif ) Yeah Vortechs are good bang for the buck heads, and with some good porting and a matching cam, keyword "combination", it'll haul! I personally, like I mentioned earlier, don't care for vortechs, just preferance, I'd rather go with AFRs. Well good luck and have fun!!! graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Originally posted by 70 Elco Joe:
Now to find a set of Vortec heads (man I really wanted to stay away from centerbolt valve covers) :D That's only because you've never had 'em. They seal perfectly every time, and I've pulled 'em off a lot. Never bought a second set of gaskets either. I use a 3/8" nutdriver to remove 'em.

The roller cams allow more lift with shorter durations, that's why they can give you more low end torque and still have high lift.

With .525 lift you're probably gonna need to have some machine work done on the Vortecs to handle the lift, as well as heavier valvesprings.

Check out the money you'll have to spend on all that. You may be better off getting a set of Darts or Sportsman heads. You may even be able to get some AFR's, which will put you anywhere you want to be.

That's only because you've never had 'em. Nah I had a set on my Camaro, I just think the old style are better looking :D

Is there a general concensus on Pro Topline? I was reading a few guys weren't very happy with them, and that their customer service sucked. The cost of their heads sure are attractive, but then you probably get what you pay for.

I was looking into Dart Iron Eagles when I read the first posts. What size runners would a 383 need, 200cc? They come in 180, 200, and 215 that I have seen. I figured the median might be better for the stroker, but figured I'd ask.

And in case anyone was wondering, I'm at work and bored out of my mind. So figured I would get some answers to fun stuff instead of reading news. :D

Originally posted by 70 Elco Joe:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> That's only because you've never had 'em. Nah I had a set on my Camaro, I just think the old style are better looking :D

Is there a general concensus on Pro Topline? I was reading a few guys weren't very happy with them, and that their customer service sucked. The cost of their heads sure are attractive, but then you probably get what you pay for. </font>[/QUOTE]Scrape up all the money you've saved and get yourself some AFRs!!!!.. tongue.gif :D ..lol I don't have any knowledge of Pro Topline, I've only seen the prices, and yes, they do look good. You can also get yourself some Dart Iron Eagle heads, Edelbrock RPM heads, World Products, Brodix or even some GM Fast burn heads all for roughly around $1300 and less. I'm looking in the 04 issue of Summit, and the Dart Iron Eagle heads around going anywhere between $899 and $999, fully assembled...64cc-72cc, 2.02/1.60 valves-2.05/1.60 valves, and 180cc-215cc, all depends on what your combo is going to come out to. Good luck! graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Ok I think I have it figured out :D

383 with hyper flat tops, should get me around 9.3 CR
World Sportsman II's 200cc intake runners 72cc straight plugs
The cam above
aluminum 1.5 rocker arms with poly locks
Edelbrock Performer RPM
2400 stall, 3:55's in the rear end


That should get me a pretty good street runner. I'm thinking that should get me in the low 400's for HP. Torque probably a bit higher. What do you think guys? Should push my Elco pretty good, now for that dang check to get here :D

World's sportsman heads are a good head BUT they are also notorious for having a weaker Intake to Exaust ratio {the 75% or better you need to run a single pattern cam efficiently just isnt there out of the box} SO my suggestion is find a good dual pattern cam to compensate for that. Ask old UD Harold im sure hes got somthing up his sleeve at Lunati that would run great for you.

Thanks for the info on the World heads. Hopefully UDHarold will pop in here when he has some time. Don't want to bother the poor guy, looks like he has a ton of stuff on his plate :D

Originally posted by 70 Elco Joe:
Ok I think I have it figured out :D

383 with hyper flat tops, should get me around 9.3 CR
World Sportsman II's 200cc intake runners 72cc straight plugs
The cam above
aluminum 1.5 rocker arms with poly locks
Edelbrock Performer RPM
2400 stall, 3:55's in the rear end


That should get me a pretty good street runner. I'm thinking that should get me in the low 400's for HP. Torque probably a bit higher. What do you think guys? Should push my Elco pretty good, now for that dang check to get here :D Sounds good :D ....didn't know that about the World heads myself, something to look into. I'm just curious tho, why r u leaning towards 72cc and not 64cc? It'll bump up your C/R a bit, maybe around 9.7 or so. Or go with the 64cc heads and maybe use a thicker head gasket if the C/R is a lil too high for you, then later on you can always slap in a thinner gasket and boom! your C/R is up! :D Or u thinking/planing on slappin on a hair dryer in the future? If so, then the 72cc would probably be better along with a thicker head gasket. I don't have much experiance yet with any type of blowers, someday soon :D , but that's what sounds good to me.

The only reason I was wanting to go with 72cc heads was to keep it on pump gas. I don't really trust the gas here enough to push the CR too much. The last thing I want to do is blow up my newly rebuilt engine because of the junky 91 octane they have here.

Can a 9.7:1-10.0:1 c.r. run off 91 octane? Or does it really need to be 93 octane?

(I'm thinking about going to 64 cc chambers from 76 cc chambers)

I think the 72cc heads are a better choice if you're gonna run flat-tops with a 383. I have to run dished pistons to run the Vortecs.

Another word of advice...

You may want to consider buying bare heads and having them set up to match your cam, rather than just using the out-of-the-box assembly.

If you're still set on going with a roller cam, the stock springs may not be adequate to handle the more agressive cam profile.

I'm no expert, but I've heard of many problems with unmatched cam/spring combos. I have yet to go that radical.

Junkyard Dawg, it depends on your cam. If you run a big enough cam it will bleed off your cylinder pressure. Retarding the cam will do the same thing.

Now you're getting into Dynamic Compression Ratio territory, and I've pushed the limits on both static and dynamic compression with pump gas.

I think if you set it up carefully you may be able to get by with 91 octane and 9.7 compression.

I just figured I would have to swap springs once I got the cam. Wouldn't that be more cost effective than buy valves, retainers, springs, seals and then having to have them assembled? I believe the World heads are already setup for a 525 or 550 lift, just need to match the springs to the cam. At least thats what I was thinking was it.

When you pick your cam, see what springs the manufacturer recommends. There's a lot more to it than just the lift that the head manufacturer's springs can handle. At the very least you need to have the correct spring pressure on the seat and at a given lift.

You'd have to check the difference in price. The money you save on buying bare heads may be enough to offset most of the machine shop cost. Remember, with assembled heads, you're paying AFR's machine shop fee too.