I might be starting to sound like a broken record here. Either guitars, Doors, or guns. But I just keep finding new stuff I like so I want to know if anyone else has any experience with it.

In this case its a Dragunov Sniper Rifle.

http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976992447.htm

Does anyone own, or has anyone fired these guns? They are really starting to grow on me for some reason. Not that I would buy one because I don't want to spend that kind of money on a gun just yet. But I am curious as to what people think about them.

Besides my guitar and gun threads aren't nearly as frequent as the Dallas/New England fan boy threads. :p

Couldn't get your link pic without registering, but here's one off Gunbroker. They're nice. I've owned several AK's and an RPK, but not the Dragunov. Plan on $1,200 for a new one with the scope, mags and ammo.

if you don't mind me asking why ?? they shot a rimmed cartridge that doesn't stack or feed well ....... IMO if you want a full power 3.08 pickup one of the Nato rifles ... FAL ,L1, STG58, M14.. much better made rifles !! easier to get ammo ... the Dragunov is nothing more then an up sized ak & the stamped frame really isn't up to that much power

they shot a rimmed cartridge that doesn't stack or feed well.
Actually, the AK's feed and cycle with near flawless reliability.

phil........ the AK 47 takes a 7.62 x39 shell

the dragunov takes a 7.62 x 54 totally different brass it came from they machine guns where it was belt feed & the rimmed brass didn't mater !! but when you start stacking it in magizines its a whole different story ....

phil........ the AK 47 takes a 7.62 x39 shell

the dragunov takes a 7.62 x 54 totally different brass it came from they machine guns where it was belt feed & the rimmed brass didn't mater !! but when you start stacking it in magizines its a whole different story .... Okay...thanks.

No dragunov, but I just bought a Yugo SKS and droped it in a T6 stock with 20 rd mag and 3x9x40 scope. Lots of fun.

Seems like the one you're looking at is an FPK, which I believe is identical to Romak-3, SSG-97 and similar Dragunov look-a-likes, i.e. it's not the "real" Russian Dragunov. From what I have heard, they are pretty good but not really long range sniper rifles. The Romanian made rifles of this type that I have seen have all been a bit crudely made, but I would think that it would be a reliable rifle that's a lot of fun to shoot. I have been thinking about getting one too, should be a blast to take it out in the field and destroy things. :yes:

just remember, everytime you pull the trigger, it's .50 that could be going into the ss, and that's not counting the purchase price. get to work, we want to see the ss finished, you don't have time to go shooting....

I'm waiting for this one.

http://shop.lwrifles.com/product.sc?categoryId=2&productId=208

Plus you can treat it like an AK, with the short stroke piston.

I don't own one, but they are great fun to pick people off with on Call of Duty 4 on the PS3 :D

I don't own one, but they are great fun to pick people off with on Call of Duty 4 on the PS3 :D

Yep. :D

I don't own one, but they are great fun to pick people off with on Call of Duty 4 on the PS3 :D
Yep. :D

Indeed!

I got a slingshot with a marble pack and nightvision...got a doublesided blade in the stock. Friggin commy sniper rifles...pfffft....I'd rather buy an american made rifle from our good friends the palestinians...

I got a slingshot with a marble pack and nightvision...

Careful Beaux, if that nightvision device has an active illumination source your slingshot is illegal in California. :p

I've shot several Dragunov's. Accuracy is good for an AK platform (meaning OK overall), reliability is good (AK platform), but as mentioned the rimmed rounds & mags are the weak link. Didn't care much for the ergonomics or trigger feel though. The best one I shot was good for about 2 MOA of accuracy at 300 yards, pretty poor for a scoped rifle but certainly decent enough for its originally intended purpose at 400-500 yards. Most guys seem to get about 3 MOA out of them on average, better with handloads.

The Romanian rifles & parts kits are pretty crude in terms of fit/finish/machining quality, but they do function.

Oh, and Michael- I see you're in California. Make sure you comply with the SB23 (Roberti-Roos) assault weapons characteristics law. It's perfectly OK to buy an off-list Dragunov variant here in CA as long as it meets the law, which either means filling in the thumbhole stock if you want to keep detachable mags, or if you want to keep the thumbhole stock you'll have to install a mag-lock or tool-removeable magazine device and then you have to stick with 10-round mags.

Personally I'll stick with my M1As, FAL, and AR-variants as I like my accuracy. However I do like the looks of the Dragunov though and wouldn't mind having one just for collection purposes.

just remember, everytime you pull the trigger, it's .50 that could be going into the ss, and that's not counting the purchase price. get to work, we want to see the ss finished, you don't have time to go shooting....

Thats one way to look at things. :D

I'll see what I can do. :)

All I saw on that website was the Romanian copies. I didn't see any real Russian ones. Does the 54 part represent the length of the cartridge?

I won't lie it is the video games that peaked my curiosity in these rifles. But I have always been interested in guns even before the video games. ;)

I have seen a few Russian and Chinese "real" Dragunows at the shows, and the prices were quite a bit higher than the Romaks, like $2,000-3,000 or more. I'd say that you can have just as much fun with a $700 Romak. And yes, "54" means 54mm case length.

IMO ....... buying Dragunov is something for RICH people to do to add to their collection...
A weapon that is meant to be a long range sniper rifle that has an effect range of 400/ 500 yards in the right hands is a complete waste of money !!!! their are several NATO 3.08 that will better that in the hands of a marksman ........let alone what they can do with a scope & a sharpshooter or expert handling it !!! if your looking for a fun rifle to Blow stuff to hell get an AK 47 an a Few case's of Wolf ammo it will put a smile on your face & won't break the bank doing it !!... please don't take this the wrong way ..... but most people won't even see a target at 300 yards !! so why buy a rifle you're not really going to use ??

try shooting a trex .577

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAx0EWhWcEg

IMO ....... buying Dragunov is something for RICH people to do to add to their collection...
A weapon that is meant to be a long range sniper rifle that has an effect range of 400/ 500 yards in the right hands is a complete waste of money !!!! their are several NATO 3.08 that will better that in the hands of a marksman ........let alone what they can do with a scope & a sharpshooter or expert handling it !!! if your looking for a fun rifle to Blow stuff to hell get an AK 47 an a Few case's of Wolf ammo it will put a smile on your face & won't break the bank doing it !!... please don't take this the wrong way ..... but most people won't even see a target at 300 yards !! so why buy a rifle you're not really going to use ??

Well I've never fired one so thats why I was asking what people that had experience with them thought. ;)

All I know is what they look like, their semi auto, and they use 7.62x54.

I want an AK too. More then likely a semi auto Romanian one or something like that. My dad just went to a Crossroads of the West gun show in Phoenix and said he saw an automatic AK for around $6k. At least I think thats what he told me.

How about the Mausers how accurate are they at fairly long ranges?

I don't own one, but they are great fun to pick people off with on Call of Duty 4 on the PS3 :D

It works okay on infinite ammo too :D Although laying down a field of fire with the SAW is a much more effective tool when you have it available.

It works okay on infinite ammo too :D Although laying down a field of fire with the SAW is a much more effective tool when you have it available.

On the last level ,when you are storming the missile silo, I picked up the Dragunov and went 27/27. All one shot one kills. None of that wounding em crap. :D

There are some aspects of using a real rifle that are easier then in the game. For instance movement while you are aiming the gun. But I guess I'm just being picky.

I usually go for the sniper rifles if I can. I've done the sneaking mission when you control Price about four times since I beat the game. :D

For .30cal I always prefered the M1 Garand and the M14. Here's me NM M1A...
http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/7930/dscn0346gb5.jpg

She's on hiatus do to high ammo costs....

On the last level ,when you are storming the missile silo, I picked up the Dragunov and went 27/27. All one shot one kills. None of that wounding em crap. :D

There are some aspects of using a real rifle that are easier then in the game. For instance movement while you are aiming the gun. But I guess I'm just being picky.

I usually go for the sniper rifles if I can. I've done the sneaking mission when you control Price about four times since I beat the game. :D

Have you tried to eliminate the patrol and helicopter instead of being sneaky? In veteran mode all heck breaks loose and you can't survive. I also eliminate everyone in the house instead of just passing them by. For as short of a game it is I can't seem to move on to others yet. The only spot I can't get through without cheats (slow motion/infinite ammo) is the hostage rescue on the airliner. I also figured out you can eliminate helicopter troops before they repel at the Ferris wheel. Seems a tad bit unfair :D

PS sorry about side tracking your original topic :D

if you want to shoot something in the 7.62x54R, just go to your local big 5 sporting goods when they have the monsin nagant 91/30 on sale which is about every other week. you can get a shooter for 79.95 with a bayo, sling, aresnal refinish, its not the prettiest rifle but they shoot great and priced right. Ammo you can go to aim surplus or any of the gun shows I think the ammo runs about 90 bucks a can of 440 rounds. I dont recommend the M44 nagants unless you have big shoulders. We called mine "loud and obnoxious" because it was loud as head and kicked like a mule.
6K for a full auto ak sounds a little cheap, unless it wasnt transferable. Jim

How about the Mausers how accurate are they at fairly long ranges?

Extremely accurate...Espeically Swedish Mausers. What are you planning on doing anyway? Hunt? Targets?

Dragunovs are great weapons, IMHO. The cartridge, as 68KMENO pointed out, is an OLD- I MEAN OLD- rimmed cartridge. It is, however, VERY powerful. If you could get a Soviet or Russian version, that would be the shiznit. I'm not so hot on Romanian stuff, though. They seem a little crude, IMHO. That being said, I'd take it over CHICOM stuff just on principle :yes:

Put your money into your car and get a gun when your not so eager just to get "something"..

Have you tried to eliminate the patrol and helicopter instead of being sneaky? In veteran mode all heck breaks loose and you can't survive. I also eliminate everyone in the house instead of just passing them by. For as short of a game it is I can't seem to move on to others yet. The only spot I can't get through without cheats (slow motion/infinite ammo) is the hostage rescue on the airliner. I also figured out you can eliminate helicopter troops before they repel at the Ferris wheel. Seems a tad bit unfair :D

PS sorry about side tracking your original topic :D

Can you actually kill the all the guys when your supposed to crawl and sneak past the four tanks? I've tried a bunch of times. I always grab the RPD off the guard in the church tower. Run out to where he says "get down" and I sprint back to the church tower and get ready with the RPD. I wait until the tanks are about to hit the road and most of the guys are grouped together and I open up.

Captain Macmillian always dies though. :(

And I try to take out the guys when Macmillian says its a bloody convention. Go up to the fourth floor, grab the stinger, fire at the helicopter, and wait for everyone with the RPD.

I always die though. :mad:

Oh wait this thread was started about real guns. It isn't really hijacking if the thread starter goes off track is it? :D

Anyway back to the real gun discussion. I have a very soft spot for the M1 Garands as well. Dad's got a Carbine, and a Enfield. The Enfield is the shorter version. It's dated somewhere around 1942.

I've never really looked into the Mosin's but I'll take a look at some. I've looked at a couple SKS's and they seem alright.

if you want to shoot something in the 7.62x54R, just go to your local big 5 sporting goods when they have the monsin nagant 91/30 on sale which is about every other week. you can get a shooter for 79.95 with a bayo, sling, aresnal refinish, its not the prettiest rifle but they shoot great and priced right. Ammo you can go to aim surplus or any of the gun shows I think the ammo runs about 90 bucks a can of 440 rounds. I dont recommend the M44 nagants unless you have big shoulders. We called mine "loud and obnoxious" because it was loud as head and kicked like a mule.
6K for a full auto ak sounds a little cheap, unless it wasnt transferable. Jim

I'm sure I could handle the recoil.

Extremely accurate...Espeically Swedish Mausers. What are you planning on doing anyway? Hunt? Targets?

Dragunovs are great weapons, IMHO. The cartridge, as 68KMENO pointed out, is an OLD- I MEAN OLD- rimmed cartridge. It is, however, VERY powerful. If you could get a Soviet or Russian version, that would be the shiznit. I'm not so hot on Romanian stuff, though. They seem a little crude, IMHO. That being said, I'd take it over CHICOM stuff just on principle :yes:

Put your money into your car and get a gun when your not so eager just to get "something"..

Mostly target shooting. I'm not much of a hunter, but you never know I may go try for some deer or something some point in time. A friend of my dads has two Mausers. One is an all original, and the other is sporterized for hunting.

His dad brought them back from Germany when WWII ended. They were in a warehouse I believe. Anyway he brought them back. I've handled them both. Made me really want one.

I didn't have much intention of buying a Dragunov, at least not right away. It's just that damn COD4 got me curios as to how good of a weapon they were in real life.

I really want an M1 Garand but I don't know if I want to spend the money that they were bringing, just yet. I'll probably look into the Mosin Nagants and the Mausers.

And it's not "just to get something." I have always liked guns, and have loved shooting them. So now that I am almost of age I really want one so I can start shooting again, and get back to being a half way decent shot. ;)

Extremely accurate...Espeically Swedish Mausers.

I grew up with the Swedish Mausers, and they are indeed very accurate. You will have to compensate for the distance as the bullet drops rather quickly, but it's one of the straighest shooting army rifles there is, even with cheap surplus ammo.

"This is MY rifle, there are many like it, but this one is mine!!!" :D

Without me my rifle is useless. Without my rifle I am useless. :p

this is my rifle ....... this is my gun ...... one is for danger ... the other for fun :)

Awesome movie. I may just have to go and fire it up in a few minutes.

So let me get this straight. So far the consensus is the Dragunovs are not that good of a weapon and they are just something for someone to add to their collection?

I don't know anyone that owns one, and I don't know anyone thats fired one so thats why I asked. ;)

that about sums it up IMO..... they look cool :cool: but you can get a much higher quailty rifle without the short comings of the Dragunov ..... have a look at the Ruger mini 30 in Stainless Steel with a synthetic stock they fire 7.62 x 39 put a scope on it & you have a all around handy modern weapon .......for not a lot of money :) just a though ....

http://www.kaneohegs.com/images/ruger_mini_30_ss.jpg

Is this it? Doesn't appear to be a bad looking gun. What do they usually go for?

thats it ...... cost around 500 dollars last time I saw them on sale around 650 normally
if you get the chance check one out at your local gun shop ... their compact lite an with the materials its made of it's one of the easiest weapons your every own as far as upkeep ... of all my rifle's my sons like the Rugers the best .. the Mini 14 in .223 caliber & the Mini 30 in .308 caliber .....taking them out for a week of hunting & not having to worry about it getting wet & warping the stock or starting to rust makes them great rifles..an if you happen to be outside of California they do except double stack mag's .... meaning 30 round mag's are available to people who don't live in CA
BUT not legal for you ... since you'll after the cut off date out lawing them in Ca :(

In that case it would just have to be a secret. :D

I'll look into them the next time I go to a gun shop.

Money spent on a Mini 14 or 30 is money that could have been better put towards an AR. :p

Far more accurate as an overall platform and a lot more options when it comes to changing & accessorizing.

Or an AK.

30 rounds of 7.62x39 heaven. :D

But that would have to stay in Arizona.

the dragunov uses the 7.62x54R (rimmed) the same round the RPK uses.

i've fired an original soviet issue SVD in iraq, i would consider the rifle more of a sharpshooters rifle then a sniper rifle. it is rather long for tactical/urban carry and it's weight dosn't fare much better for it's use, although it is lighter then it looks. looks cool, yes. simply outdated.

Money spent on a Mini 14 or 30 is money that could have been better put towards an AR. :p

Far more accurate as an overall platform and a lot more options when it comes to changing & accessorizing.

yes ........ but in my case with two son's ....buying 3 Ar15's starts to get a bit expensive..;)

besides I prefer my Stg 58 :thumbsup: but it weighs quite a bit more then I'd like :rolleyes:

an since he's In Ca & buying this after all the assault weapon bans he wouldn't be able to grandfather any of the good stuff ... he doesn't have much in the way of accessories that the Peoples Republic of California will allow anymore :(

yes ........ but in my case with two son's ....buying 3 Ar15's starts to get a bit expensive..;)

besides I prefer my Stg 58 :thumbsup: but it weighs quite a bit more then I'd like :rolleyes:

an since he's In Ca & buying this after all the assault weapon bans he wouldn't be able to grandfather any of the good stuff ... he doesn't have much in the way of accessories that the Peoples Republic of California will allow anymore :(

I like my STG58 also (DSA build.) Oddly enough, it's more accurate than the Dragunovs I've fired... great rifle.

Or an AK.

30 rounds of 7.62x39 heaven. :D

But that would have to stay in Arizona.

Actually, you can get an AR, AK, or any "assault weapon" again here in CA... a lawsuit a couple years ago changed that. As long as the firearm is not SPECIFICALLY and EXACTLY named in SB23 (i.e. "off list") you can build whatever you want as long as it adheres to the characteristics section in SB23. You can still build a nice rifle as long as you cross your T's and dot your I's and stay within the letter of the law. ARs, FALs, HK MP5 clones, HK UMP/UMC's, G91s, Steyr AUG clones, AK's, Galils, the subject Dragunov, etc, are all legal as long as the model & make of receiver is not word-for-word on the SB23 manufacturer's list and you configure them correctly. There are a few rifles that we still can't build here as no 3rd party manufacturer has yet to step up to the plate and make an equivalent receiver; the AR-10 or SR-25 come to mind immediately. They are named specifically in SB23 and nobody yet makes a 3rd party receiver that is "off list." (Actually, Hesse/Vulcan makes an AR-10 receiver but they are so poorly made they really shouldn't even be considered an option.)

In the last year I've built over a dozen AR's for friends, 3 for myself with another 2 receivers still needing to be built up, and bought a couple of FAL's. AKs are next on the list, I will probably buy an HK UMP or USC carbine or MP5 clone, and I want to build 1 or 2 .308 AR variants of some sort probably on a DPMS platform using the Fulton Titan receiver, 1 in .308 or maybe .260 (DPMS is on the list, the Fulton is not.)

If you're interested in buying or building an "off list" rifle I suggest you go to the message board over at calguns.net and check out the "OLL FAQ" to get all the legal skinny. There are a LOT of options out there!

Thanks Troy ...... :D

I'll have to check out the calguns.net OLL FAQs :) it never hurts to stay on top of the latest changes :thumbsup:

So let me get this straight. So far the consensus is the Dragunovs are not that good of a weapon and they are just something for someone to add to their collection?


I would look at it as an AK, at least if we are talking about the Romaks. Not very useful or accurate, but cheap, cool looking and a lot of fun to shoot. If that's what you're after, just buy one. If you want a great target rifle, you probably need to look for something else. In that price range you're probably limited to bolt actions, really accurate semi-autos can be pricey.

http://www.kaneohegs.com/images/ruger_mini_30_ss.jpg

Is this it? Doesn't appear to be a bad looking gun. What do they usually go for?

I don't have one myself, but I have heard people say that they are not all that accurate. Some of my friends who have them (the .223 version) have told me that they were not all that happy with the reliability either. That's not to say that I don't want one, I'm sure it would be great around the farm or for plinking.

on the Ruger Mini's ...... I've owned several of them since they first came out !! My kids have run THOUSANDS & THOUSANDS of rounds through them .... with NO problems other then just plain wearing a couple of them out !!! what can I say I'm impressed with the use & abuse they took over the years ... not the most accurate rifle in the world some say but its not the most expensive either !!! then I bought my first Mini 14 it cost 129.00 at big five sporting goods store !!

then I bought my first Mini 14 it cost 129.00 at big five sporting goods store !!

I'd take two of those! :D And as I said, I have only heard some friends talking about the reliability, but I don't have any experience of them myself. And of course, most guns need to be maintained to be reliable, and I know that this could be an issue with at least one of the guys I'm talking about. :)

Now that I think about it I have fired a mini 14 once. I didn't hit crap with it ,I was maybe 10. But it was still a fun gun to shoot. :D

I'll check out that site and see what all they have. But I think for now I might go with something like a Mauser. Or maybe a Garand if I can get one cheap enough. But I would still like to own more then just those two guns some day. :)

I just started reading that FAQ. "Evil features"? Are you kidding me?

I just started reading that FAQ. "Evil features"? Are you kidding me?

It's a wonderful acronym for Mrs. Feinstein's and others "characteristics" that make a rifle an "assault" weapon-- i.e. a flash hider, pistol grip, semi-automatic action, etc. It's these "evil features" in certain combinations that lead to the characteristic classification of what makes a rifle an "assault" weapon under the current law in CA (SB23, aka the Roberti-Roos law.)

Politicians in action... gotta love them.

But if you're thinking about building an off-list "assault" rifle of any kind in CA reading through that FAQ is mandatory... it walks you through what you can and can't buy and how you can and can't build/configure it to stay within the letter of the law.

It boils down to 2 basic configurations for off list semi-auto rifles:

1. If you keep the magazine detachable you can have no other "evil features"-- i.e. no flash hider or "conspicuously protruding pistol grip."

2. If you have "evil features" then you must run a 10 round fixed magazine, as rifles with fixed magazines of 10 rounds or lesser capacity cannot be classified as assault weapons as long as the receiver is not specifically named in SB23. This means you can have a pistol grip, flash hider, etc, but the magazine must be fixed. Also, the definition of fixed is "not able to be removed without a tool." So guys have come up with clever magazine locks that require a small tool (i.e. the tip of a bullet) in order to detach the magazine. They're quick & easy to use, but you are limited to 10 rounds. I have such tool-removable mag devices on my squirrel & varmint hunting AR's.

Well if they decide to ban guns all together they can have mine. Bullets first.

Sniper rifle?

What's wrong w/ a 300 Win Mag, 300 STW or a 300 H&H Mag??

I bet if you get to checking the OLD 300 H&H is one h-ll of an accurate long range rifle in shooting olympic style contests!!

pdq67

Also, the definition of fixed is "not able to be removed without a tool." So guys have come up with clever magazine locks that require a small tool (i.e. the tip of a bullet) in order to detach the magazine. They're quick & easy to use, but you are limited to 10 rounds.

You would think that Feinstein and her croonies would have realized by now that they can't win this battle. It doesn't take long for people to read the details of the new laws and come up with ways to get around them.

You would think that Feinstein and her croonies would have realized by now that they can't win this battle. It doesn't take long for people to read the details of the new laws and come up with ways to get around them.

Actually it took a court proceeding to get the "off list" door open. Someone challenged that the state's "assault weapon" law was too confusing for a "layman" to understand and the court's decision was that if the receiver is not SPECIFICALLY and EXACTLY named in SB23 then it is legal, even if it it a series or clone of the named banned rifle/receiver, as long as it is built up to comply with the characteristics section of SB23.

This opened the floodgates as people who missed the boat back in 2000 to buy the last of the "assault weapons" here in California were now able to buy them again-- although they had to be configured a little bit differently. Unfortunately I'd say about 60% of the gun dealers in this state still will not touch off-list receivers or rifles because our state DOJ was actually harassing dealers and sending out vaguely threatening memos to dealers who were selling them. Some dealers flat out say they're still illegal, while most acknowledge their legality but don't want to touch them because of the "memos" they have received from the state DOJ.

I was grateful for it because I was just getting into shooting as a hobby at the time of the ban. By the time I realized I might want one of these rifles it was near the end of the year and EVERYONE was out of stock... or had jacked their prices up so high I couldn't afford it at the time. I had just about given up hope of owning some of these rifles living in California until I found out about the whole off-list thing in October of 2006. My first order was for something like 14 or 16 AR lower receivers, 5 for me and the rest went to friends. :p

The problem is, some of the more "intelligent" people in charge up in DC have seen what has been happening here in CA... and these people have incorporated verbage and additional definitions into a couple of the new proposed Federal-level assault weapon bans that would eliminate the opportunity/loophole that we have seized upon here in California.

If the dems get in charge this year and another federal level assault weapons ban passes (which is something it seems all the Democratic candidates have touched on) expect it to be far more restrictive than the 1994 Federal ban simply because California has provided an example of what can be done to "skirt the law" and now they can draft a law that closes the door.

I think you are spelling it wrong! ITS DUNTOV, I had one in small block in 58. OH I only have a few guns, 1969 Mdl. 94 Winchester (Golden Spike Comemorative) lotsa gold plating. NEVER been fired. Permit to carry.
If you want to see my 12 Gauge pump, Walk into my house UNinvited !
" I would rather be judged by 12, Than carried by 6 "
Bob:hurray:
P.S.
Speed KILLS, Drive a FORD and live forever!!!!!!!!!!

Sniper rifle?

What's wrong w/ a 300 Win Mag, 300 STW or a 300 H&H Mag??

I bet if you get to checking the OLD 300 H&H is one h-ll of an accurate long range rifle in shooting olympic style contests!!

pdq67

I’ve got to ask … what the heck are you talking about? 300H&H in Olympic shooting? Part of me is being cynical, but I’m also curious … as I really don’t know much of the history in Olympic shooting. But was an African Safari round really considered in Olympic shooting?

Anyhow … to the rest of the conversation. I’ll add my 2cents. I’m probably more of a collector than a shooter.

First of all, please do not look at guns as some extension of a video game. They ARE very real, and WILL kill somebody if used improperly. I enjoy my guns greatly (and will be one p’d mofo if I ever lose my right to own them) … but they must be treated with a greater respect than anything else you use.

If you’re wanting to buy a gun, there are many choices (and price ranges). If you’re wanting to blow up tin cans & pop bottles, there isn’t much better than a Ruger 10/22. You can shoot that thing for days, and still keep the Chevelle. In my opinion, all Ruger firearms offer the absolute best bang for the buck! Now saying that, I don’t own any Ruger’s anymore … they’re cheap purchase price, is reflected in the workmanship. Plenty of durability, that’s not lacking, but the finesse that costs so much more in a premium gun becomes obviously lacking in a Ruger.

AR’s are great, though I think pricey for just plinking … and .223 ammo is getting tough to find. The typical gun show AR’s I still don’t think shoot that well, a mid-price sporter version should shoot <1MOA though. I have ~$700 into mine, and will regularly do ~1/2MOA to 100+yards. I have issues with it after that, as the .223 is just a lolly pop for bullet drop. Brother has a .220Swift, much much better at 300yards!

If you’re not trying to shoot as quickly as possible, I think bolt guns are an excellent choice. Mauser’s are a great rifle. I own an original Oberndorf Mauser (.30 ’06) that far surpasses any bolt gun I have ever seen or fired! Don’t ask the value on it. Problem with military mauser’s though is the oddball ammo they shoot. If you’re looking for a bolt gun, I’d still go back to the Ruger77 or Remington700 … both are excellent priced values, and in calibers you can buy at WalMart.

All depends what you want to shoot. And, then if you’re into personal defense … none of these guns make the list!
Neal

If you’re not trying to shoot as quickly as possible, I think bolt guns are an excellent choice. Mauser’s are a great rifle. I own an original Oberndorf Mauser (.30 ’06) that far surpasses any bolt gun I have ever seen or fired! Don’t ask the value on it. Problem with military mauser’s though is the oddball ammo they shoot.

Yep, Mauser is the best bolt action, and as Olle agreed (with a name like Olle, I'd bet he knows :) ), the Swedish Mauser is probably one of the best quality Mausers out there. They can still be had for OK prices, but they certainly aren't priced like they used to be.

Do you have a military Mauser or a commercial Mauser hunting rifle? Big difference. ALL GERMAN military, ie. Nazi Germany, Mausers that are original are chambered in 8MM Mauser, not 30.06. I want to make this clear just in case the poster DOES buy a Mauser. I don't know if you rebarelled an original rifle or what, but for the original poster DO NOT shoot 30.06 in a "German" Mauser if you buy one. It is extremely dangerous unless you are modifying cases, etc. etc.

Yep, Mauser is the best bolt action, and as Olle agreed (with a name like Olle, I'd bet he knows :) ), the Swedish Mauser is probably one of the best quality Mausers out there. They can still be had for OK prices, but they certainly aren't priced like they used to be.

Ah yes, as some of you already know, I'm originally from Sweden. :) I used to belong to something called "FBU" (loosely translated: "Voluntary officer training"), which is something you can do to prepare yourself for the military service. It can be described as boy scouts training with military equipment.

In any case, I was trained on the m/96 Mauser, and it sure is a sweet rifle. They date back to the late 1800s and I believe the last ones were made in the 40s. I have one that's dated 1914 and the workmanship is out of this world. The action on these rifles is all handfitted, so if you're interested in buying one you need to look for one with matching numbers. The action is extremely smooth on a gun with matching parts, the ones that are pieced together from spare parts can be a bit rough sometimes.

And the prices sure seem to have jumped quite a bit lately. When I bought mine, you could find nice, clean rifles with matching parts for $99. It seems like they bring $300 and up nowadays, and if you want the m/38 version with the short barrel and bent bolt handle you'll have to pay another $150-200 or so. But I'd say that they are still worth the money. You probably need to be quick though, seems like the supplies are drying up and I have seen some nice m/96's advertised for as much as $600 :eek:

Ah yes, as some of you already know, I'm originally from Sweden. :) I used to belong to something called "FBU" (loosely translated: "Voluntary officer training"), which is something you can do to prepare yourself for the military service. It can be described as boy scouts training with military equipment.

In any case, I was trained on the m/96 Mauser, and it sure is a sweet rifle. They date back to the late 1800s and I believe the last ones were made in the 40s. I have one that's dated 1914 and the workmanship is out of this world. The action on these rifles is all handfitted, so if you're interested in buying one you need to look for one with matching numbers. The action is extremely smooth on a gun with matching parts, the ones that are pieced together from spare parts can be a bit rough sometimes.

And the prices sure seem to have jumped quite a bit lately. When I bought mine, you could find nice, clean rifles with matching parts for $99. It seems like they bring $300 and up nowadays, and if you want the m/38 version with the short barrel and bent bolt handle you'll have to pay another $150-200 or so. But I'd say that they are still worth the money. You probably need to be quick though, seems like the supplies are drying up and I have seen some nice m/96's advertised for as much as $600 :eek:

You're right! I have a matching M38 bent bolt made by Husqvarna, and the workmanship on it is really something. Honestly, it's nicer than you can get from the sporting goods store. That bolt IS nice and tight...You really have to give it that last push to cock it! When I first took it out of the box when I recieved it, I was shocked.

If you have a CUrio and Relic FFL or know a dealer and would still like to get a Swede, I wholeheartedly recommend this place to get Swedish Mausers and accesories from:

http://www.samcoglobal.com/rifles.html

My M38 came from there, and I coudn't have been happier. EVen the cleaning rod is numbers matching.

Just an FYI about 8MM Mauser- it's not that tough to find plinking ammo for it. I bought 2 dozen rounds of Portuguese 8mm for cheaper than 30.06 surplus. If it's possible to reload 8MM mauser cases with 30.06 bullets, that's one thing, and since I don't reload I'm not sure if this is possible anyway..But I can't stress enough to the original poster DO NOT USE store bought 30.06 in an 8MM Mauser military rifle if you get one! :noway:

Neal,

Try here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.300_H&H_Magnum

I should have said "The cartridge won the international 1,000 yard competition in 1937.", which I figure is long range bench rest competition!

Sorry about that.

pdq67

Anyhow … to the rest of the conversation. I’ll add my 2cents. I’m probably more of a collector than a shooter.

First of all, please do not look at guns as some extension of a video game. They ARE very real, and WILL kill somebody if used improperly. I enjoy my guns greatly (and will be one p’d mofo if I ever lose my right to own them) … but they must be treated with a greater respect than anything else you use.

Agreed. However, *anything*, including video games, that gets the younger generation (like myself) into firearms is a good thing IMO; we need more firearms enthusiasts. With the rural life steadily declining as more kids grow up in cities without any real exposure to them (other than the slanted reports on the nightly news) the anti-gun politicians will gain more and more ground and one day we might lose our hobby.

I'll be 100% honest here... while I have had a pellet rifle since I was 7 years old and had a lot of fun with it in the backyard over the years, I had no real interest in guns until I was about 20 and that was after playing quite a few first-person style video games. My interest level went up and I started reading & researching. Then one day I overheard one of the guys talking at work about going to the range and we struck up a conversation; turns out there were quite a few other shooters here at work and they all liked showing "the new kid" (me) around and taking me places to shoot and try different things-- long range rifle stuff, shotguns, action pistol, etc. I went out and bought my first handgun at 21 a few days after my first range trip... and it snowballed from there. Next thing I know I picked up an over and under and started shooting skeet & 5-stand, then picked up a couple of rifles for varmint hunting & long range silhouette shooting, and now thanks to other bad influences I'm shooting limited class in USPSA (might try Open soon too) and loving every minute it.

The more "younger" types we can get interested in this hobby for the RIGHT reasons the better... someone is going to have to carry the torch one of these days! I have been seeing more people my age (20's) at the ranges in the last couple of years and I think that's a very good sign. I used to be one of the only younger guys at the rifle range I'm a member of, now I see many others every time I go. :thumbsup:

The more "younger" types we can get interested in this hobby for the RIGHT reasons the better... someone is going to have to carry the torch one of these days!

And it's also a good thing that the increasing amount of gunowners makes them a force to be reckoned with when the politicians are suggesting new laws. I think we have seen signs of that already, but that discussion might be better suited for CE. :)

I grew up in a country where it's difficult to obtain guns (at least legally...) but I have always been interested in them. I almost had withdrawals after leaving the military service, so I was in hog heaven when I moved to the US. Almost went crazy buying guns the first few years, but my wife has been holding me back lately and set a "one gun per year" limit. I know I'm an addict, so I guess it's a good thing that she's keeping an eye on me... :D

Yes it's true I play video games. But I have been interested in guns since as far back as I can remember, and that is before I started playing video games. And I am well aware of what guns can do to people. ;)

And I hadn't even thought about putting 30-06 into a Mauser. My dad said he saw some never been fired, all original Nazi Mausers for $300 at a gun show. He said they were good looking rifles but he didn't handle it or anything.

Do you have a military Mauser or a commercial Mauser hunting rifle? Big difference. ALL GERMAN military, ie. Nazi Germany, Mausers that are original are chambered in 8MM Mauser, not 30.06. I want to make this clear just in case the poster DOES buy a Mauser. I don't know if you rebarelled an original rifle or what, but for the original poster DO NOT shoot 30.06 in a "German" Mauser if you buy one. It is extremely dangerous unless you are modifying cases, etc. etc.
OK ... didn't realize any of my original comments were in the slightest confusing. Yes, my gun is chambered in .30 '06. It's what's considered an Oberndorf Mauser sporter. Though rare, many were chambered in .30 '06 as that was a popular caliber when it was ordered in 1921. By the way, the German's mark it 7.6S (stands for Spitzer), and US1906 (what the .30 '06 was originally referred to as it was developed in 1906).

Anyhow, if there can be any confusion taken from that I appologize. NEVER, ever fire a rifle with a different bullet than it is chambered for. That includes whoever's suggestion that maybe an 8mm bullet can be reloaded to .30cal ... NO! Plain and simple, never fire anything but what the rifle is chambered ... bad things will happen.

As for choosing a good bolt gun, I would still strongly recommend the Remington 700 ... or, if you want something really nice, try the Savage AccuTrigger. Insanely cheap, and will outshoot most anything 2X it's cost.

As for entering the hobby ... I strongly suggest entering 4H clubs, shooting clubs, etc. I very seldom shoot with other's from work, as I'm extremely picky about those shooting guns around me.

I'll also stick with my first comment, that I do not endorse folk joining the gun hobby based on their experience in video games ... but then again, that also shows my extreme bias against Kill'Em All video games.

Anyhow, take care. If any of you would have questions about shooting, first guns, anything ... just give me a shout. It's quite a hobby of mine.
Neal

I was into real guns long before I was into playing video games.

I do believe I mentioned that already. :p

How is the Remington 1917 Enfield bolt action??

pdq67

OK ... didn't realize any of my original comments were in the slightest confusing. Yes, my gun is chambered in .30 '06. It's what's considered an Oberndorf Mauser sporter. Though rare, many were chambered in .30 '06 as that was a popular caliber when it was ordered in 1921.

It wasn't confusing at all. It just wasn't clear. I wouldn't be surprised if there were newbies that have tried to fire .30.06 in a K98 because they didn't know any better.

MEJ1990TM, I hate to tell you this, but you aren't going to get a Nazi Mauser in unfired condition for $300. I explained this to you in another post...Your Dad saw Yugo M98's at that gun show. They are Mauser based, and actually are pretty cool weapons, but are NOT Nazi Mausers. They are not collectible, nor will they ever be collectible if that is what you are looking for. If you want a pristine Nazi Mauser with proof marks intact, you'd better be ready to pay a lot of money for it. If you want an inexpensive plinker that is also "based" on a famous and excellent weapon, it is actually pretty hard to beat an M98.

Why doesn't your Dad buy a Curio and Relic FFL for 30 bucks? Then you can buy what you want right out of a catalog, and you can get the guns delivered right to your front door?

How is the Remington 1917 Enfield bolt action??

pdq67
Enfields are bulky ... but on a sporterized gun, are considered one of the more desirable and strongest.

It was a Nazi rifle he said it had the markings on it when I talked to him. Maybe it was a fluke or there was something fishy going on.

My brother has a Nazi K98 Mauser that has Nazi proof marks on it, and right next to them is Star of David (six-pointed star) proof marks. Apparently, some leftover K98 Mausers were used by the early Israeli army. They re-chambered them for .308, and the receivers are stamped "7.62" (.308).

Does anyone have any opinions on these ?

I guess theres just a little bit of irony in all that isn't there. :p

I guess theres just a little bit of irony in all that isn't there. :p

It certainly is.

Yes it's true I play video games. But I have been interested in guns since as far back as I can remember, and that is before I started playing video games.

You should check out action pistol shooting / USPSA... I got dragged into coming to one event by a good friend and now I'm hooked. The best way I can describe it is that it's about the closest thing to a video game in real life as you can get. Even not viewing it from that angle, it's still a LOT of fun. :D

Unfortunately between the equipment and the rate at which you burn through ammo it gets expensive pretty quickly! It's not uncommon to burn through 300-400 rounds in less than an hour at a practice session, and it goes quickly in the stages too. Last stage I shot was 38 rounds and it was over in 23 seconds, including 1 reload and running between 5 different windows... and I was one of the slower guys as I've only been doing it about 2 months!

As for entering the hobby ... I strongly suggest entering 4H clubs, shooting clubs, etc. I very seldom shoot with other's from work, as I'm extremely picky about those shooting guns around me.

I'll also stick with my first comment, that I do not endorse folk joining the gun hobby based on their experience in video games ... but then again, that also shows my extreme bias against Kill'Em All video games.

Anyhow, take care. If any of you would have questions about shooting, first guns, anything ... just give me a shout. It's quite a hobby of mine.
Neal

Neal, I can see where you're coming from, but if you have a level head, common sense, and know right from wrong I don't think video games in and of themselves are a bad influence. I've played them for YEARS (still do occasionally) and never let them influence my use of *real* guns. They may have influenced a couple of my purchases but they have never influenced my practices when it comes to safe handling & discharge. Then again the 2 main guys at work who got me real interested have been shooting for nearly 40 years each, are both avid reloaders, and a wealth of information, and I didn't do anything before running it through them until I had a good feeling on my own. I do agree that a mentor-type, club, etc, is always a good thing for someone new in this hobby-- there are a lot of pitfalls, places to waste money, and at the very basic and most important some very critical safety, procedural, and practice things that you need to know before you really get started and the best way to learn that is under someone else's wing. Granted you can pick it up on your own but it's always faster and with much less chance of an "oops" when someone with experience shows you the ropes.

I have seen total newbies doing VERY careless and unsafe things at ranges and have seen them yelled at by fellow range visitors or the range officer. They obviously never had any help, not enough common sense, or they were just so overwhelmed with everything they simply forgot. Help is always a good thing... As you said, I'm very particular about who I shoot with too (for the above reasons.) If I'm taking someone new with me I never put them and live ammo together, both for my safety, their safety, and everyone else around them, without first showing them everything they need to know ahead of time at the house. If I don't feel they are ready we'll go over it again before live ammo comes into the picture.