Unclepennybags- I was just curious on how you like that Energizer cam? Is it lopey at all? I noticed your combo in your signature and I see you are running the same cam that I just ordered. As you might already know from previous posts i'm running a similiar combo to yours. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

333cu in
10.35:1
600 edel carb
Performer Intake
Performer RPM heads
Crane Energizer Cam .454" 216
Forged pistons, reconditioned rods, reconditioned steel crank.....balanced

thanks for any replies in advance

Originally posted by 71chevy0192:
Unclepennybags- I was just curious on how you like that Energizer cam? Is it lopey at all? I noticed your combo in your signature and I see you are running the same cam that I just ordered. As you might already know from previous posts i'm running a similiar combo to yours. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

333cu in
10.35:1
600 edel carb
Performer Intake
Performer RPM heads
Crane Energizer Cam .454" 216
Forged pistons, reconditioned rods, reconditioned steel crank.....balanced

thanks for any replies in advance 71chevy0192,

I love the cam. There is no lope. Best part about it is that while it idles pretty smooth, it pulls hard to ~5,500 or so.

While I do think that the cam is an excellant choice for the street, I wanted to comment on a few things. I notice that you are running quite a bit more compression than me. You might want to do a dynamic compression ration calculation compliments of Mr. Kelley. I think you are going to be just a hair high compression ratio wise for that cam. Crane suggests 10:1 max. http://www.cranecams.com/
Is your shortblock already assembled? If not, maybe you could knock down your CR just a hair.

To get the full benefit of that cam you will want to have your distributor recurved. Dale Johnson at the Mag shop did mine, and he did a wonderful job.

Finally, what stall converter are you going to run?

The Edelbrock carb you mentioned should be acceptable. Have you considered a Qj?

Have fun! graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Mike

Thanks for the reply unclepennybags. The engine is not yet assembled; however, the pistons I have came with the rebuild kit, and the rebuild kit is not returnable. I don't have the money to go out and buy another set of pistons either. This was intended to be a budget project, but already has exceeded the $$ limit. I called up summit tech and asked them if there will be any problem running this cam, considering that I have higher compression than is recommended. The guy said that as long as I run an octane booster....preferably running around 103 octane so I don't have to retard the engine......that everything should work ok. Now what i'm worried about is whether or not there is going to be a problem with clearance between the piston and valves. The pistons I got are .100" domed, and i've been told there might be a clearance problem because of this. (Things are just getting better by the minute *shakes head*) This is becoming a problem since i'm basically out of funds and the project is almost done. I guess i'll just have to see what happens. I wish that puppy had a little bit of lope to it...i'm kinda sick of having cars that run smooth. lol
Thanks again for the reply.

With 10.35 SCR I get 8.21 for the DCR. Should work with 91 octane. Are you sure of the 10.35?

Yes, the pistons are 10.35:1....so that would mean the compression would be also right?

When giving a comp ratio they assume a certain head volume - 64cc, 76cc....

Best to calculate it with your head gasket, head, piston....

Mike

p.s. I can squeak by with 89 octane. You MIGHT be okay with 91-92.

The heads are 64cc. So it should be around 10.35:1 right? I mean as long as they figured for 64cc heads. Now I just have to figure out if I can afford this engine rebuild, or not. If not I might as well sell the damn car. :(

I'd be very suspicious of mfg CR claims. Most do not state how they calculate it. KB is one exception, most of their's are correct (they use .040" for quench). Unclepennybags is correct, you should calculate it yourself.

I'm sure you guys are right, but how do I go about doing that?

What pistons do you have. Post the part number if you have it. KB .100 domes are .5cc but they have pretty big valve pockets.

Forged Speed Pro...I believe they are TRW pistons. I'm not sure what the part number is, and the guy who is building my engine right now has all of my parts. The pistons are the ones that come in the rebuild kit for a 327 with 10.35:1 comp. The kit was a Speed Pro/Felpro/Sealed Power kit in the new Jan/Feb summit catalog...pg 113...$459.95 I believe. I dont know if this helps at all... I can give summit a call tomorrow and find out whatever I need to. By the way....what do I need to know to figure out what the actual compression is? :confused: Oh, they listed the 10.35:1 comp for a 64cc set of heads, which mine are..I dont know if that matters, but I thought i'd mention it. I apologize for the lack of details here.....honestly i'm still working on understanding all the terms related to compression. redface.gif
"I'm learnding" - Ralph wiggum *simpsons* smile.gif

Are 10.35:1 comp. pistons usually domed? I always thought they would be flat top pistons. Do you guys think they might have thrown the wrong ones in by some chance? I think the next size up was 11.68??:1. When I checked the compression on my old setup, with flat top pistons, (same setup, now with a rebuild) the compression was 10:1 or 10.25:1......crappy gauge. :(

clearence for your valves should not at all be a concern..........domes are small and lift is so mild...........as far as the compression goes there are a few things you can do to help lower it.....smoothing out the combustion chamber of all casting roughness opens up the chamber along with grinding back the chambers edges. depending on the valve job too most of the time reworked stock heads have the valve seats sunken pushing the valves up into the heads making for a larger cc volume.........running a thicker head gasket i had 4 pairs of cheap head gaskets that was .051" thick when measured with calipers......

reworked factory rods ussually have the piston sitting down in the hole farther too. but that it usually offset from the the block being decked.

trw pistons are pretty good for keeping a better then stock deck height(bad for you i guess since a lower compression ratio would be better) which will hurt compared to alot of the cheaper pistons have a crappy "to far down in the hole" deck height..........

i think by its all said and done your compression ratio will be under 10 to 1.....most of the time its pretty hard to get the actual compression figure as stated by manufactures........its usaully a claim of "this is the most you will get" if you have a zero deck it, run the min. quench and your heads are dead on 64 cc's.

but as stated before kb does a pretty good job for stating compression ratios.

do some measuring and see where everything is at.there are way to many variables to try and figure compression ratio from paper.(unless your wrote your measurement down from the motor and you figuring it all up....lol)

Specifications:
* Bore: 4.030 in.
* Stroke: 3.25 in.
* Rod length: 5.70 in.
* Compression ratio: 11.20:1 (58cc heads), 10.35:1 (64cc heads), 9.87:1 (68cc heads), 9.43:1 (72cc heads), 9.03:1 (76cc heads)
* Head type: .125 in. Dome
* Oversize: .030 in.
* Ring size: 5/64 in. top/second ring, 3/16 in. oil control ring
* Pressed pin only

the part number is TRW-L2166NF30

here is your piston.............

ddeennis - wow. Thank you for the information. So you wouldn't worry about the piston/valve clearance then? I would really like to be able to save the money that it would cost to have my engine builder measure everything out. On the other hand, obviously, it's certainly important that there is enough clearance. I'm just going to tell him that i've been told not to worry about it from people who knows, and if he'll cover that in the warranty (if there isn't enough clearance i mean) then i'll just have him assemble it without checking. Sound like a good idea? Thanks again for all your help...and everyone elses.

71Chevy0192,

I was thinking about your engine a little yesterday. I realized that Crane does recommend 10:1, BUT they have no idea if the purchaser of that cam will have cast iron or Aluminum heads. Because aluminum transfers heat better you can generally get away with more compression than you could with cast iron. Therefore, I think you'll be okay with that cam and that compression ratio.

If you get a chance, calculate your compression ratio. If nothing else, it's nice to know and educational.

What are you going to do for a distributor?

What converter are you going to run?

Mike

Extrapolating using KB volume for a .100" dome with .5cc, the TRWs should be around .625cc. This isn't all that accurate but probably close enough unless you are right on the edge. Using this (and a .040" quench) the SCR comes out to 10.45. Adding in an estimated crevice space above the top ring the SCR drops to about 10.37. Again, this is only an estimate. If the dcr works out to be a bit high, the cam advance could be reduced a couple degrees. This would lower the DCR.

What cam are you using? Mike seems to have changed the link he had posted.

He's using the 10052 Crane. It's a .454"/216 cam, Energizer. I got rid of the link because it screwed up the display - you had to use the scroll to see the whole post.

Mike

Using the cam number Mike mentioned, The DCR comes out around 8.28 (8.22, allowing for the top ring crevice). You should be fine with 91 octane (assuming all the assumptions are correct). This is actually an excellent match and should make a lot of power. You definitely would not want to use a smaller cam.

Excellent! I'm happy to hear that I won't have to be running anything above 93 octane. I just don't know why the summit tech guy said I would need to run at least 96 octane? :confused: You guys certainly seem to know what you are talking about though, so i'll take your word for it. Just to play it safe i'll run 93. Not to sound like a broken record here, but do you guys agree with ddeennis that there shouldn't be any problems with piston/valve clearance?? (I'm kinda worried about this now) Or should I spend the extra money and have the guy building my engine check just to be sure? Funds are really tight right now, but I wouldn't want to make a stupid mistake just to save a few bucks. I should definetly have the cam dialed in/timed to the specs on the sheet that came with it right? Thanks a million guys.....I REALLY do appreciate it. graemlins/thumbsup.gif :D If you guys need any more info i'd be happy to give it.


Any ideas on what HP and TQ this engine might be putting out? Just curious...doesn't really matter though. I think I might make this car into a cruiser rather than more of a drag car as originally planned. Thanks again. smile.gif

Don't forget there are a lot assumptions in calculating the octane you need. You should be OK but no guarantees.

I think checking P/V clearance is part of building the engine. Something he should check anyway. In all likelyhood there will be no problems.

I should be alright running 93 for the break in period then right? After I break it in i'm going to get a compression gauge, one of those that screws into the spark plug hole, and just find out once and for all. Those read the SCR right?

Did I leave out any info for figuring out the compression? Just curious. I'm just completely paranoid about this engine after what happened to the last one. :( Sorry for all the questions.
Thanks

I used a .040" quench distance, the dome volume is an estimation, the chamber have not been cc'ed. 93 octane should help. A compression gauge doesn't tell you anything about the CR. However, they are informative about the condition of the engine.

Pat Kelley - Ok....I guess I misunderstood the purpose of a compression gauge. They are 64cc heads.....as for the rest I really don't know. :confused:
Thank you for all your help

Originally posted by 71chevy0192:
I should be alright running 93 for the break in period then right?
You won't need it for the cam break-in. You'll just be at part throttle. Once you get to a gas station you can put 93 in then.

You should have a really nice package there! Two questions for you:

What are you going to do for a converter?

Has your distributor been recurved for a perf. camshaft?

Mike

Please consider..

A set of W/P's SR 2.02 heads right at 67 cc's should do you better as would a set of 66 cc 2.02 double hump heads, imho..

OR it's been mentioned recently the availability of a stock, 70 cc thick head, but with little valves. Might want to get a set and just add big valves??

pdq67

PS., You could always plunge cut relieve, (on the intake side), your present heads out to the stock big valve double-hump heads 66 cc's..

I don't doubt Pat at ALL here, but I like to run just below 8.0 to 1 DCR with iron heads and our poor gas here just b/c I'm conservative!! That's all..

Unclepennybags - I will be using the converter that I have because of a lack of funds. It's somewhere around a 1500 stall. I don't have any extra money to get another one...i'm still trying to figure out how the heck i'm going to pay for what is already done....and the car MUST be running soon because I am moving and will need to drive it. I'm not sure if the distributor has been recurved, or honestly what that means. It's an Accell HEI distributor, and it seemed to work great on the last combination that I had. As long as this engine runs fine with the distributor the way it is, i'll be leaving it the way it is for now. What does it mean to recurve your distributor? Also what is involved? :confused:

Thanks in advance smile.gif


pdq67 - Getting different heads for me isn't an option. I have absolutely NO extra money, and I love the heads I already have.

71Chevy0192,

The converter and distributor tweaks aren't critical, BUT will help you to get the most potential out of the combo that YOU have.

IF you find the low end grunt of this cam isn't quite enough, when you get the funds look into a 2500 rpm or so stall converter. You'll probably be okay now with a 1500, but if you want this cam (or any bigger cam) to really shine to it's fullest potential, it's going to need some stall.

Your Accel distributor might be curved already, but check it out once you get the engine running. When you "curve" a distributor you are changing the amount of ignition advance that you get at different speeds and loads. An engine with a high performance camshaft will need more advance sooner, and in many cases less total centrifugal advance. Typically, a stock distributor will start the advance curve late which could lead to a slight bog. You could also end up needing less vacuum advance, and for it to come in at less load.

To check: Remove vacuum line to distributor and start engine. Record your timing at idle (700 rpm or so). Take the engine up to ~3,000 rpm. Record where the timing is. This second figure is your total timing. You are going to want it to be ~36 degrees, with your initial set at ~14 degrees. This means that the difference between the idle figure that you recorded, and the 3,000 rpm figure that you recorded, is your centrifugal advance. If you have ~20 degrees centrifugal advance, your in great shape. If you don't, consider getting the distributor curved.

The actual act of curving a distributor involves installing a different vacuum "can" for the vacuum advance, and different weights/springs for the centrifugal advance. If it is done at a distributor shop they will mount the dizzy in a distributor machine, spin it up to 7,000 rpm or so to verify proper function, and then verify that the advance comes in EXACTLY where it should. Dale Johnson at the Mag Shop in Buffalo NY did mine. He puts out really, really nice work.

Have fun! graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Mike

Unclepennybags - Thanks for explaining that to me....I see what you mean now. I'll check to see how it is when I get the engine back in, and if it's off i'll have it recurved when I have some $$. I was actually going to buy a stall that was for around 2500 or so, but like I said before, I just don't have any money to spare right now. :( I can't wait until I'm done with college and get a real job so I can really start building this puppy up. graemlins/thumbsup.gif Thanks again....you've been very helpful. smile.gif

71Chevy0192,

Glad to help. Us 327 guys are outnumbered here so we've got to stick together!

Let us know when you get that 327 up and rippin!

Mike