I'm certainly no authority, but I thought I'd share my experience and ask that others do the same......

Pre work - Do as much on the bench as you can. Even if you have a lift most of this is more comfortable to do with parts on a bench.
- Install grease fittings (there's three per side)
- Install snubber - factory style ones (I think that's what I have) need a portion of the indexing nub ground down.
- Can't remember the stock shock bolt sizes, but my coil overs use 3/8" bolts. Drill out the holes because the powdercoating made them just small enough to keep the bolts from running through.
- Don't use the grease gun yet, just apply a small amount of grease to the bushing sleeves to keep them in place during the installation. If you were to pump too much in with a gun, the bushing halves will seperate making it harder to install in the perches. (yes I did that to one)

On the car - You'll certainly only be working on one side at a time, but you may want to loosen both sides of the sway bar end links - it just makes life a little easier.

I have coil overs - so I'm not going into the safe removal of the front coils - it's been done here before, just be careful.

Coil over guys - you will likely want to by coil spacers as the effective drop (with my varishocks) was more like 2.5 inches. I can get it all back through the adjustment, but I need to save some for the AFX spindles.... so off to colemanracing I go!

I can't really think of anything else - except the drivers side, rear LCA mount bolt / header interference. Do yourself a favor and just 'fix' that problem with a cutoff wheel and a new bolt. Just install it backwards next time.
11527

Anyone want to buy some CPP tubular lowers, brand new??? Just siting in the boxes for the past 10+ months...

I should have known I'd never get them installed before I'd see something else...

Doh!

Good post! I just want to point out that most folks won`t experience that much total drop with the coil overs and the SPC arms. That`s just when going all the way from stock arms with raised lower shock mounts to SPC arms with lowered mounts and the same coil overs. Also `64-`67 and `68-`72are different. Nice thing about using the Varishock coil overs is that all of the cool racing coil over tuning aids fit them so it`s easy to tweak them for each application. :) Mark SC&C

I also have the Varishock coilovers waiting to go on... Did yours come with a T-bar to mount to the lower control arm? Mine didn't... :confused:

Rich - I guess its a T- bar - I'ts two pieces of billet aluminum with a steel treaded nipple that joins the two in the shock eye bushing. each piece has a protruding flat spot that you bolt through the stock shock hole locations.

11551
I don't see why you wouldn't see the same amount of drop I did - look at the mounting points between the two arms:

11550

The spring perch/box on the SPC arms seems to hang really low. I wonder what they look like when you look at the front of the car. They seem like they would drop the ride height since they appear deeper, but then again I don't have them. I would like to see photos of them from the front of the car though.

Brian - the very first post has that photo.

Rich, if memory serves your coil overs were ordered for a custom installation with fabbed brackets. You`ll either need to still fab brackets top and bottom (which isn`t very hard) or we can get you a cross bar kit for the bottom and just fab mounts for the top.

Live65,the spring seats are dropped just slightly (it looks like more than it really is) and with no other changes or spring shims will drop a car about 1". One set of shims will reduce that to about 1/2". Two sets will yield the same height as stock arms and three sets will raise the car about 1/2".

Congrats on the first installed pics! :) Mark SC&C

Rich, if memory serves your coil overs were ordered for a custom installation with fabbed brackets. You`ll either need to still fab brackets top and bottom (which isn`t very hard) or we can get you a cross bar kit for the bottom and just fab mounts for the top.

Congrats on the first installed pics! :) Mark SC&C

I thought the coilover version of your LCAs were going to have double sheer mounts... I knew the top was goign to be custom... There is no way I am going to grind off the powedercoat to weld mounts to my brand new lowers when they get here... I guess I'll be going with the cross bar kit.... I emailed you yesterday when I realized my dilema....

Actually Herb had them on two days earlier - I may be the first one to have them on, check everything out, then proceed to tear off most of the front suspension! I'm prepped and awaiting my AFX setup - unfortunately I've been overcome by the 'while I'm here' bug....Its a good thing its winter time!

how well will these work for a daily driven street car?
they hold up just as good as stockers, or better?

thanks.


aaron

Aaron - I believe they will be much better than stock - they are certainly stronger, plus you get some additional caster that you likely have lost in your frames 37 year lifespan.

Mike,
Did you get your AFX spindles yet? I was looking at my car today .. then back at your pictures.. My stock arms are completely level now... I am worried about how low the new arm pocets will hang down... After looking at your first pic again it looks like your car is still supported on the lift.... Was the front suspension fully loaded or was the lift holding it up some?

Rich - Not yet - I was really hoping to get them yesterday - Maybe in Monday's UPS. You do see the lift arms in that first shot - but the weight is completely on the suspension. I should be a week or so away from having is be able to sit on wheels again.

These lowers are killing me - this project snowballed from lowers, to new uppers and spindles, C5 brakes, all new hard and flex brake lines, z bar spring bracket, inner fender seals, center link, idler arm. I'm sure I'm forgetting something!

Mike,
Did you get your AFX spindles yet? I was looking at my car today .. then back at your pictures.. My stock arms are completely level now... I am worried about how low the new arm pocets will hang down... After looking at your first pic again it looks like your car is still supported on the lift.... Was the front suspension fully loaded or was the lift holding it up some?

Are you looking for a specific view/picture? I'm in the middle of my install right now. I atually have the passenger side buttoned up:
http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/2862/1001712kd0.jpg

But I just ran into this on the driver's side. The rear mounting hole of the driver's side LCA has openned (source of my until-now mystery clunk).
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/9657/1001711ly6.jpg

Waiting for my brother to get home so he can weld some reinforcement to this for me. I should have everything done in a couple hours if you need any specific pics/views. Let me know...


Sidenote: I also had to unbolt the driver's side header (Hooker Comps). One tube actually blocks the rearward bolt head of the LCA.

:beers:
Nelson V.

Are you looking for a specific view/picture? I'm in the middle of my install right now. I atually have the passenger side buttoned up:
:beers:
Nelson V.

I'm just worried about how low they hang... I measured the engine crossmember on my car yesterday... Its only 5" off the ground... and it looks like they spring buckets on the new LCAs may hang even lower.... I tried taking some pics last night but they came out too dark.. When you have it all finished and sitting on the ground ... If you could take a pic from the front of the car at ground level to show the lowest point.... :D

OK, it took a bit longer than anticipated, as I ran into another snag. Then had go run a couple errands. But I guess I’m “done” for now. The car dropped much lower than I expected. The first picture below shows the car with its weight on the suspension (there’s a also a brick under the tire). In this pic the inner fender is actually resting on the tire. It looks like I have about another inch and a half of thread adjustment in the coilovers, but I think I need around two or more inches of lift from where it sits now. The coilover is bolted directly to the spring perch. I’m thinking of machining some lift blocks to get my ride height up to where I want it. But first I’m gonna check with Mark on Monday to ensure I didn’t do something wrong to wind up so low.
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/4237/69724767xo7.jpg

These next three pictures are with the car’s frame on stands and the suspension in “full droop”.
http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/3194/75189265be0.jpg

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/3205/86439915zr3.jpg

http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/6536/63265461je0.jpg


I'm just worried about how low they hang... I measured the engine crossmember on my car yesterday... Its only 5" off the ground... and it looks like they spring buckets on the new LCAs may hang even lower.... I tried taking some pics last night but they came out too dark.. When you have it all finished and sitting on the ground ... If you could take a pic from the front of the car at ground level to show the lowest point.... :D

I live in Los Angeles, but where I wrench and machine on my car (at my brother’s house) is about 90 miles away in San Diego County. So unfortunately I only get to work on this stuff on the weekends. And next weekend is already dedicated to some Leadership classes I’m taking for work. That said, I’m still with the car until tomorrow morning as it’s going to have stay here now in its current drooping state. But if there’s any other picture that might help, I’ll be glad to shoot some more for you before I go. I just don’t know how helpful any pictures would be until I get the suspension at the correct ride height. Perhaps, with the frame suspended as it is now I can jack up the suspension to approximate ride height, then measure. Whatdaythink? I’ll try that in the morning.

Oh and for reference, this picture shows where I started. I didn’t expect to need a wider shot, so unfortunately didn’t take one. Because my headers (Hooker Comps) and electric cutouts hang pretty low, I can’t go any lower in the suspension than shown here. This is with SPC UCAs, AFX spindles, and stock BB springs (I guess) and stock LCAs.
http://img136.imageshack.us/img136/1443/24336288jn9.jpg

:beers:
Nelson V.

Nelson,
Here is some shots of how my car sits now... about a half inch higher then yours...
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i98/mcmlxix/Chevelle/frontheight.jpg

Driver Side Suspension

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i98/mcmlxix/Chevelle/floor3.jpg

Both Sides of the suspension - The Coke can is under the engine crossmember.. it clears by about a quarter inch .. . .

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i98/mcmlxix/Chevelle/floor1.jpg

What I would like is some measurements with the wheels on the ground.... at the corner of the frame right behind the front tire where is curves in and up... mines about 7 inches from the bottom of the frame to the floor..... and my stock LCAs are perfectly level. . .

Nelson - actually the coilover difference is more like 2.5 inches lower. I ended up buying 2" spacers from coleman racing. And yes that rear drivers side bolt is a problem with headers. I cut it off and just replaced it the opposite way.....

NelsonV & MJ what size, model, spring size and weight Varishock did you guys use? I too would like my car NOT to drop so low. Would a larger model Varishock Coilover solve that problem.

Thanks, Tony

Yea i installed the Varishock coil overs too and she`s sitting way low,i have to try to adjust it more but im scared that if i go so much more its going to be really stiff after??


Thanks

the springs are not progressive - so it's really just about ride height. The sell 1" and 2" spacers if your worried about not having enough adjustment.....they sell longer springs for that matter too - but the spacers are much cheaper.....

I have the 675lb springs, I think they are the standard 2.5"x9". Softer would require more adjustment, and with the new LCAs I can guarantee you would run out of threads.

the springs are not progressive - so it's really just about ride height. The sell 1" and 2" spacers if your worried about not having enough adjustment.....they sell longer springs for that matter too - but the spacers are much cheaper.....

I have the 675lb springs, I think they are the standard 2.5"x9". Softer would require more adjustment, and with the new LCAs I can guarantee you would run out of threads.


Where do the spacers go exactly between the varishock and the lower control arm?who sells them?did you have the same problem as me?

Thank you

Nelson - actually the coilover difference is more like 2.5 inches lower. I ended up buying 2" spacers from coleman racing. And yes that rear drivers side bolt is a problem with headers. I cut it off and just replaced it the opposite way.....
Did you buy their Coil-over spring spacers? http://www.colemanracing.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=49_434
Or do they have a spacer that goes between the lower shock mount and the pad on the LCA? I couldn't find one. Where the spacer goes in the assembly will affect where in the shock's travel the piston is at ride height. I guess I'll have to mock my car up to ride height and take some measurements to see how much lift I need, and where I need it. And as I type this, I'm realizing I can't do any wrenching for another couple weekends, which means I couldn't "order" anything just yet. I'll just have to fabricate whatever I need then (Scroll down to my latest pic in this post... That machine on the right is a CNC milling machine).
As to the rear bolt, I must be a glutton. I unbolted the header, did the suspension work with the bolt in the original position, then replaced the header. It wasn't too bad. I thought of reversing the bolt, but then I would have had to shorten the bolt as its threads would still hit the header if I reversed the bolt.

NelsonV & MJ what size, model, spring size and weight Varishock did you guys use? I too would like my car NOT to drop so low. Would a larger model Varishock Coilover solve that problem.

Thanks, Tony Springs: VAS 21-07575, 7in. long 575lb. rate; Shocks: VAS 161MN-350, 3.5" travel (:eek:), 13.13" extended length.

Where do the spacers go exactly between the varishock and the lower control arm?who sells them?did you have the same problem as me?

Thank youWhere the spacers go is my same question to MJRIBEIRO above. Colemanracing.com sells them.

Nelson,
Here is some shots of how my car sits now... about a half inch higher then yours...
***
Both Sides of the suspension - The Coke can is under the engine crossmember.. it clears by about a quarter inch .. . .
***
What I would like is some measurements with the wheels on the ground.... at the corner of the frame right behind the front tire where is curves in and up... mines about 7 inches from the bottom of the frame to the floor..... and my stock LCAs are perfectly level. . .See those drops of water in the picture? It's rain. :angry: (Sorry for the snide answer, just a little frustrated. My car goes in for paint in four or five weeks, and now this means it will be out of commission for at least two of those weeks.) Anyway, I need to get on the road in a couple of hours. If the rain lets up by then, I'll position the car/tire at the your heights, and measure what you're asking for. Else, I probably couldn't do anything for two weeks.
http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/6096/rainwk1.jpg
:beers:
Nelson V.

Hey guys when you buy parts from us you`re not faceless customers left out in the cold you`re clients. If you need some tuning help just call us rather than guessing at what to do and we`ll walk you through it,that`s why we`re here. :yes:
The main virtue of a true coil over system is tunability,so some tuning is to be expected. Everyone wanted Varishock coil overs to allow real low ride heights but the old Varishock conversion and the std. lower arms won`t allow that,the coil over itself bottoms out before you achieve full bump travel. Ride height is easy to adjust,full travel is not adjustable it needs to be built in. Putting a big ol spacer under the coilover mount will reduce the available bump travel and could cause damage to the coilover.
These parts were designed to allow full compression travel without bottoming the coil overs out and they do that well. A few guys just need some help establishing ride height. 3.5" of travel at the shocks allows about 7" at the wheels which is WAY more than you need or will every use,especially with performance spring rates and valving. New Corvettes use about 4" max. Even `70-`81 Camaros etc. only used 5" at the wheels. Increasing preload within the normal range does NOT increase spring rate or ride harshness. The weight of the car will only compress the springs so far,from that point one you`re just lifting the car.
The Coleman 2 1/2"dia. spring spacers are the perfect way to get more preload and they`re cheap too. They are not a bandaid,they`re one proper way to get more ride height without increasing spring rate. PN#ST-409-1 is the part you want. Remember 1" of height at the coilover should equal roughly 2" of ride height. In the real world it may not that much but it should be plenty to get the ProTouring ride height you want. We have some of these on order and will be offering them with the coil over kits in the future. Mark SC&C

:yes:Hey guys when you buy parts from us you`re not faceless customers left out in the cold you`re clients. If you need some tuning help just call us rather than guessing at what to do and we`ll walk you through it,that`s why we`re here. :yes:
.....
Thanks Mark. I'm sure everyone here that has dealt with you (and probably has since they have your products), realizes that. :thumbsup: We certainly appreciate the great service/advice you provide. (Can I get an "Amen"?) I'm just doing a little prospecting and speculating until I can make my Monday morning drive-time phone call to that familiar number in Pennsylvania :D.

...But first I’m gonna check with Mark on Monday to ensure I didn’t do something wrong to wind up so low....See? ;)
Talk to you tomorrow..
:beers:
Nelson V.

Where exactly do these spacers go?

Thanks

Here you go guys - remove the spring and put the spacer on top of the adjuster (and thrust bearing if you have it), put your spring over top, and reassemble....
12004

12003

Here is another option.... offered by Varishock...

http://www.totalcontrolproducts.com/support/VAS/VAS_400-202/VAS_400-202_TN.jpg

Shock Extended Eye
Increasing vehicle ride height without disrupting the correct balance of shock travel has never been simpler. Our direct-replacement, billet-aluminum shock mounts feature a 1” extended body, and perfect fit for existing VariShock polyurethane bushings. Mounts simply screw onto the top of the shock’s piston rod and are secured by a jam nut. Extended eyes can be used with any VariShock coil-over shock to raise ride height approximately 1-1/4”. Proper suspension travel and clearance must be verified prior to installation.


VAS 400-202
Price: $60.00 (pair)

Website I found them on.... HERE (http://www.totalcontrolproducts.com/vas_coilover.html)

I think that can only work on the top - which would require a different mount than an A-body has....

Mark ....will be installing my 1" Coleman spacers on my Varishocks soon ....any reason I cant put on top of coilover spring rather than bottom ?
Bill in Canada

Those extended eyes look like a good idea too would have worked fine for me since I mounted my coilovers with a A&A bracket with stud to the frame shock hole ,upper mount just like lower except bracket has stud welded to it

Seems like everyone is having issues with them being too low.

Thanks

Thanks for the kind words Nelson. I just posted that for the folks who haven`t figured out our way of doing business yet.

Anytime you do a coil over conversion a little adjustment and tweaking may be required. It`s just the nature of the beast. For every 20 or 30 happy clients we may have one or two that need a little extra tuning help but that`s what we`re here for. If the initial spring rate choice is off a bit we can simply exchange the springs for different ones as long as they`re in like new condition. Since the Varishocks are true coil overs they can also use all of the racing tuning parts on the market (like the Coleman spacers) so they`re easy to tweak to fit any specific application. A little time spent tuning now will pay off bigtime down the road. As Alton Brown says "Your patience will be rewarded." :yes: Mark SC&C

Anyone want to buy some CPP tubular lowers, brand new??? Just siting in the boxes for the past 10+ months...

I should have known I'd never get them installed before I'd see something else...

Doh!


What do you want for the arms? I am sure they are better than the stock ones I have now. What color are they? Thanks

OK, here's the latest. My front coilover's came with 575lb. springs, which Mark and I have deduced are not heavy enough for my BBC convertible, so I ordered some new 650lb springs. Unfortunately, the springs haven't shown up yet. So, I am unable to do any real work for now. I do intend to install the new springs then measure the shock's extension at ride height; then I'll fab up my own spacer's accordingly.

For now, I've propped my car up to ride height (~24.75" from the ground to the bottom of the lip of the fender.)

At ride height, I measure right around four inches clearance under the crossmember:
http://img530.imageshack.us/img530/390/cross7upjx9.jpg

And about three inches under the lowest part of the LCA perch (which puts the LCA pivot just about in line with that of the LBJ):
http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/7548/lowerperch7upll7.jpg

Rich-
It's nice and sunny here in So Cal (as it should be) this weekend. Is there anything else I can measure or mock up for you while I'm tinkering?

:beers:
Nelson V.

****Update to my update****
I may have had a flatulation of the cerebral type.

I was under the Chevelle tinkering and realized that I had a bit more preload than I previously thought. So I cranked on the spring a few turns and got my body up within 1 inch of desired ride height. Then I took everything apart and found I have a few more turns even. (It gets crowded under there and difficult to see the threads on the shock body with everything in place.)

So I next mocked the shock onto the car without the spring installed. This allowed better understanding of where everything was in relationship to each other through various extensions of the shock's travel. It looks like if I turn the coilover adjuster to the highest setting, it's actually going to give me the exact ride height I desire. What's more it also looks like it places the shock's nominal position in just the right spot of its travel.

Also noticed:
At fool "droop" I was expecting the UCA's to limit suspension travel by contacting the frame, which was not the case. The shock can actually hit its internal stop at fool "droop." While I don't expect this condition to exist in regular motion, I will look into devising some kind of bump stop under the UCA.
With the original bump stop mounted on the LCA, my tire hitting the inner fender actually becomes the limiting factor before the bump stop contacts the frame. I discussed this with Mark and he mentioned the progressive jounce bumpers are actually taller than originals and should work to limit compression travel. (Note to self: go to Chevy dealer and order new jounce bumpers!)

Well, the sun has set here. I'm going to give this another shot tomorrow with the springs installed and the coilover preload maxed high.

I'll keep you all posted....

:beers:
Nelson V.

Thanks for posting the pics of your set ups! Mine is patiently waiting in boxes for my coil-overs to arrive (Hopefully this week! :D ). When I placed my order about 3 weeks ago with SC&C (Mark is a great guy to work with! :thumbsup:) I went with 650lb springs, because I wanted a little more aggressive setup.
Thanks for letting me know what to expect and give me a starting point for my installation. I was expecting about 2" of drop with the arms and ATS spindles, but I did not expect the coil adjusters to be at the upper limit. I will let you know how my installation goes.

Jon

You guys will be very happy with the 650lb springs. I have the 675s - I'm sure there is not much difference between the two....

Nelson - what were you thinking of doing for the upper bump stop? I'd be interested in doing the same. It just seams wrong to let the uppers hang off the frame. Stockers without a bump stop wouldn't be as bad - since there is nothing with threads that if bent would hinder adjusting. Put a slight, barely noticable bend in those adjusters and I bet they don't want to adjust anymore.... Of course they are much stronger, so maybe it would never happen. Did you think of just using straps to the lower arms?

...Did you think of just using straps to the lower arms?

I had thought about straps. But then that wouldn't be as fun as turning on my brother's CNC milling machine. :D

I'll let you all know what I wind up doing.
:beers:
Nelson V.

***UPDATE - 3:00p.m. Sunday***
- Tore down the whole front end because I wanted to count exact number of turns on the shock body to have a known starting point (plus, I had to install some new hex sections into the UCA's anyway).
- Re-installed everything.
- Adjust coilovers to max height on the preload.
- The body is up off the tires now, but still not high enough to keep my headers from dragging over every little bump

So:
- I still need to wait for the 650lb. springs; hopefully they show up before next weekend's wrenchtime.
- I'm going to fashion some coil spacers on the lathe.

It looks like 1-inch spacers are ultimately going to do the trick. (Yes Mark, you told me so. But now I have seen with mine own eyes. :thumbsup:)

See you all next week... :beers:
Nelson V.

Rich-
It's nice and sunny here in So Cal (as it should be) this weekend. Is there anything else I can measure or mock up for you while I'm tinkering?

:beers:
Nelson V.

Holy Crap thats LOW!