Maybe it's a Michigan thing because we're bordering a state of economic depression but it seems to me chevelles are not bringing the strong dollar like before. It seems as though the 70's in particular have taken a dip. This makes me very nervous. I'm elbow deep into a restoration of a LS5, fathom blue, M22 car. I have the build sheet and it's in prestine condition. I didn't get the original motor for the car. So I did the next best thing. I have a coded 70 ls5 4 speed block, the correct heads (casting and date), correct intake (casting number and date), correct 7040205 carb, etc. For now I have a Super T-10 in the car. Later when I find a correct M22 I'll pick it up. So far total cost for the restoration is $42000 and climbing. I expect to come in around $47,000. Basically the thing will be far better than new. The paint will be nothing less than spectacular. And I mean everything will be new on the car.

So my question is, will the car bring enough money to break even when I'm done? Or am I getting worked up over nothing.

So my question is, will the car bring enough money to break even when I'm done? Or am I getting worked up over nothing.
IMHO quality cars with paperwork, in desirable colors, with popular trim, engine and trans combos will (hopefully) still be good future investments (even without the original engine)
I looked for 6 months for a quality "done" fathom blue/white stripe 454 - 4 speed 70 SS for sale and found nothing under 50K (this was a year ago though)
So relax :cool: and don't cut corners on the resto because it'll come back and bite you on the a$$ if you are stuck with it for a while.

A 1970 L78 was bid up to $90,000 at Mecums in late May of 2006, the next year about the same time it was bid up to around $60,000, or 60 something, I can't remember exactly.

But it was the same car, with a few improvements to it. So I guess you could say it was around a 1/3 reduction, and from what I have seen by reading on the forums this sounds about right for this price range car.

These cars will come back up in value, but I wouldn't want to guess when.

Right now as far as an investment in that price range car, it's probably not to good an idea to do one.

If you put your money in the stock market and kept it in there for a year, you should bring in $400 to $450 a month off from that, off a $60,000 to $75,000 investment.

The price of materials and labor isn't going down any, so that has some effect on the lower priced cars. They aren't taking the hit like the higher priced ones.

Over the last two years you will see more of the cars on ebay and dealers that show some pretty good pictures of them, especially the underside.

So now a husband and wife can look a car over pretty good setting on the computer.

The higher quality restorations are doing fairly well, probably more so on the lower end cars.

As far as your question, it doesn't sound like you will come out making any money on it, but, if the quality of your car is right up there at the top end, you might come out.

But, with the higher quality restoration, you need pictures of what you did, and I would save receipts, in other words documentation, the matching number guys understand documentation really well, but it is just as important on a restored car.

Anyway, I'll probably here it about what i put out here, but I'm just relaying what I have read.

Rob

You said blue, are you saying your car is allready painted, if it isn't you might want to do a little checking, maybe even a larger muscle car dealer, they might have a buyer for a particular color.

Rob

I guess I could suggest a few more things for you that might help you out when you get ready to sell it.

I would get some real clear pictures of any new parts, this could be brake shoes or body bushings or new belts, whatever.

Get pictures of your exhaust manifolds, it looks like there really nice, anything that looks really good, then i would talk to someone like showdown muscle cars in detroit, your from michigan.

Give them a disc or make up a new website that only has the car and its restoration on there, in other words you want something a dealer can show a prospective buyer.

A buyer can get a lot of information off from the internet on a lot of these cars, you could tell them about the paint and primer, anything that might add value.

Your web site is pretty nice, but not the type of set up to present your car.

Put plenty of information on the drive train, like the driveshaft and clutch and ujoints, something that says reliabilty.

Anyway, I have been a little critical here and there, but I guess you want some honest input.

It looks like to me from what I can see, it will be a really nice car.

Good luck.

Rob

So my question is, will the car bring enough money to break even when I'm done? Or am I getting worked up over nothing.

If you are doing it for the money.....the market will come back:yes:

if your gonna keep it, does it really matter?

If you are doing it for the money.....the market will come back:yes:

if your gonna keep it, does it really matter?

Yes! I like to keep track of my investments and see how they are doing even thought I am probably never going to sell them (leaving them to my children). ;)

Yes! I like to keep track of my investments and see how they are doing even thought I am probably never going to sell them (leaving them to my children). ;)

I always thought this was a hobby?

Mike

Mike
Hobby first, investment second IMO (this way I can have my cake and eat it too). :hurray:

Mike
Hobby first, investment second IMO (this way I can have my cake and eat it too). :hurray:

Can't argue with that! :D

Mike

is it possible that the car prices were over inflated, and the prices are in a correction? Jim

well last year my fathom blue( not compairing it was in bad shape) ls5 origional 4speed with a 71 454 with the build sheet still on the door panel but it was the most rusty car you ever saw sold on ebay to ground up for only 8 grand and there has been a blue ls5 on ebay with build sheet for 31000 for 3 runs now I think they are headed back to where they were 6-7 years ago in a hurry not as much money throwing around right now I cant see ls5 cars doing more than 46 -55 when some of the nice ls6 cars are doing 60- 90 grand and falling guick nothing against ls5s, but people are not going to home equ there house as quick anymore with banks tightend up and I am sure thats how most of these cars end up in most garages

Just to answer the topic question.

God I hope so.

:confused: :sad:

I think there is a slow down of purchasing. It's natural for any market to peaks and valleys. As long as you're doing quality work by yourself with quality parts, you won't lose value or money unless YOU decide to.

As with any limited commodity, there is a prime time to buy, and a prime time to sell. Enjoy the car until a situation comes along that's prime for you. Don't worry about the 'market' and what other people think. Unless the economy totally tanks, you'll be fine.

Now, those 66 SS cars, their values have fallen off the charts ;)

Like Jimmy says don't read to much into it, just go about your restore and most of all have fun with it. I agree with ya about prices here in Mi. Especially those 66's

So my question is, will the car bring enough money to break even when I'm done? Or am I getting worked up over nothing.Break even when you are done? I doubt it.

IMHO quality cars with paperwork, in desirable colors, with popular trim, engine and trans combos will (hopefully) still be good future investments (even without the original engine) .

"Future investments"... Typically, its very hard to make a profit (or much of one ) on a restoration, unless you did most of the work yourself (especially body/paint work), or you cut corners, or you got lucky with the initial price... Someday, the overall market will probably come back up on the less than perfect cars, but I don't think we will see the rapid price escalation we have for the past several years...

Aside from the rare exceptions, maybe a high quality "investment" piece, such as an original-engined car, and LS6/L78/etc, a convertible... Quality will make the difference.


So relax :cool: and don't cut corners on the resto because it'll come back and bite you on the a$$ if you are stuck with it for a while.

I agree, don't cut corners at this point.


is it possible that the car prices were over inflated, and the prices are in a correction?
This is what I think is happening... People with lots of money don't care, but they will be looking for the best; best quality with the original engine, etc... I think its the people that can't quite afford the best, those people maybe looking to buy/enjoy/sell for a profit a few years later, that are hesitating... Naturally, if you see the lower end of the market slowing, and you are not well insulated, you have to begin wondering if this is a wise time...

And even some of the higher-end cars are selling lower (or not selling/meeting reserves)...

I think alot fo the smart "investors" are going to be getting out of classic cars, leaving more collectors and regular guys...

The Europeans and Aussies are buying and paying real good money because the dollar is down so much. I know a guy who is making a living buying less than perfect Mustangs, redoing them and shipping them to Australia.

Ron

Are the values going down? I freakin hope so! This has been a huge fiasco and values were just insane. I do not believe they will ever go back up to where they were, as they shouldn't have been there in the first place. I believe lower values will only help the hobby as these wayyy over inflated values have ruined it for most that have been doing it for years and for the love of it. These people have subsequently been priced right out of their own hobby. When values of anything get inflated way out of proportion, people remember this, and shy away from doing this as investments or turn overs in the future. In my oppinion this ruins it for the die hard gear heads that do it because they love it. Not to make money on them. I feel that a lot of the reason these values got so far out of whack is that people want them to make money on. Not because they love the sport or even chevelles. If not chevelles then pork bellies or gold and silver. I dont care one way or the other. I just know that it has become very expensive to do this anymore because of these "investors". This drives up parts prices and repop prices. Greed has brought these sharks into our pound and I hope that the lack of food will make them all leave and good ridence!!! Ok boys tear me apart.
Bill

is it possible that the car prices were over inflated, and the prices are in a correction? Jim

Very good point...a little course correction along with the economy as a whole.

Are the values going down? I freakin hope so! This has been a huge fiasco and values were just insane. I do not believe they will ever go back up to where they were, as they shouldn't have been there in the first place. I believe lower values will only help the hobby as these wayyy over inflated values have ruined it for most that have been doing it for years and for the love of it. These people have subsequently been priced right out of their own hobby. When values of anything get inflated way out of proportion, people remember this, and shy away from doing this as investments or turn overs in the future. In my oppinion this ruins it for the die hard gear heads that do it because they love it. Not to make money on them. I feel that a lot of the reason these values got so far out of whack is that people want them to make money on. Not because they love the sport or even chevelles. If not chevelles then pork bellies or gold and silver. I dont care one way or the other. I just know that it has become very expensive to do this anymore because of these "investors". This drives up parts prices and repop prices. Greed has brought these sharks into our pound and I hope that the lack of food will make them all leave and good ridence!!! Ok boys tear me apart.
Bill


well put Bill. this market is finally sitting down. with 3 million dollar HEMI cars and 600k and up for some is just crazy. since the market is backing down in prices, the public will start buying them again, then the price will go back up again. all about supply and demand. since the prices are going down, i have noticed that the local antique car places are starting to sweat. investor have killed the market and will never understand why. thats what happens when you put money before a hobby....

I agree with a number of posters in as much as I hope the values do go down. This hobby of ours shouldn't be built around buy and flip or ruined by the fools on Ebay or at Jackson-Barrett.

Now back to the original question. The question about high end, big dollar cars appears to have been answered; they are losing value even though I believe the value they are losing was greatly inflated to begin with.

The daily driver Chevelles are another thing altogether, in least here in the Oregon/Washington area. I have searched the paper, Craigslist and Ebay daily for the last year looking for a decent 1970 Chevelle for my son; it was his choice for a first car. I finally found a decent one about two hours from my home with the asking price of $8000. I was able to negotiate the price to $7000 and I jumped on it. I have continued to look everyday, and I haven't found one in the same condition this one is in for less than $10,000. Most of them are in the 12 to 14 grand range. The car I bought is certainly no show car either. The interior is nice, the body is rust free and pretty straight and it runs well with the stock 307. The paint job is a 10 footer with chips and cracks in the paint and once again; it is just a Chevelle Malibu with a 307 engine.

I think the lower end daily drivers are going to continue to escalate in price and I hope that some day my son can fulfill his desire to acquire an actual Super Sport.

Just think of the lost interest from a meager bank CD at a rate of about 5% if the huge sums that have been paid, went their instead. That 70 Chevelle that sold for over $1,000,000 would have to appreciate $50,000 per year just to break even.

Check the '69 on my website below.

I spent (counting my time) right at 60k to build it. Sold it in December for 31K.

Granted, it was a COPO clone, but, it was an extremly nice build with as much detail that could possible have been done.

Now is not the best time to sell.

Are the values going down? I freakin hope so! This has been a huge fiasco and values were just insane. I do not believe they will ever go back up to where they were, as they shouldn't have been there in the first place. I believe lower values will only help the hobby as these wayyy over inflated values have ruined it for most that have been doing it for years and for the love of it. These people have subsequently been priced right out of their own hobby. When values of anything get inflated way out of proportion, people remember this, and shy away from doing this as investments or turn overs in the future. In my oppinion this ruins it for the die hard gear heads that do it because they love it. Not to make money on them. I feel that a lot of the reason these values got so far out of whack is that people want them to make money on. Not because they love the sport or even chevelles. If not chevelles then pork bellies or gold and silver. I dont care one way or the other. I just know that it has become very expensive to do this anymore because of these "investors". This drives up parts prices and repop prices. Greed has brought these sharks into our pound and I hope that the lack of food will make them all leave and good ridence!!! Ok boys tear me apart.
Bill

No tearing here man! I agree with you 100%.

No tearing here man! I agree with you 100%.

I second that!!

Definitely not, take a look at this killer deal.....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1968-chevelle-convertible-70-chevelle-1967-396-12-bolt_W0QQitemZ130188754501QQihZ003QQcategoryZ10076 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Are the values going down? I freakin hope so! This has been a huge fiasco and values were just insane. I do not believe they will ever go back up to where they were, as they shouldn't have been there in the first place. I believe lower values will only help the hobby as these wayyy over inflated values have ruined it for most that have been doing it for years and for the love of it.

If I were you, I would not be praying for the tanking of the market. You might just get what you wished for. If prices are down, especially prices of cars, there is no reason for people to spend there money on reproduction parts, which means the parts we treasure would become discontinued, and there would be no reason to improve existing ones, or develop new reproductions. Those of us who remember those days, when we could not buy anything, or anyone who has ever tried to restore a car that has no reproduction parts available for it, can tell you how tough that can be. I for one do not want to go backwards, only forwards. I want better stuff, that fits and looks better, and is more authentic, and at a price that is reasonable. Only a strong market can provide this, not a weak one. And is it too much to ask that the investment in the car can be recovered at sale time? Of course not. That being said, there has been a lot of rediculous prices in the last few years. Truth is, that has always happened, you just did not hear as much about it like you did in the last 2 years. And the market has settled down, and this is actually good. Volatility helps nobody in the long run. But dont pray for our downfall. pray for sanity.

Jeff Dotterer
Dated Components
Diamond Restored Judge

Definitely not, take a look at this killer deal.....

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1968-chevelle-convertible-70-chevelle-1967-396-12-bolt_W0QQitemZ130188754501QQihZ003QQcategoryZ10076 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

its easy cheap advertizing!! thats all no one is gonna buy that!!

Jeff, I remember those day well. While I agree that the over valued stuff has helped in the repop dept, But if you got into this to build one and then get your money out of it when you are done, that has always been very hard to do. Even in those days you would never get all your money back at the sale time. The gearheads then and now do it to enjoy them, drive them and race them. I believe they always knew the more you build it the more fun you have, and that fun has a price tag on it. take that price away and if you are lucky you will get the remainder at the sale. But once it becomes, Buy it, Build it, and sell it for a profit. Then it is a bussiness, and about the money not the sport. I have never gone into a build thinking "man when I am done with this it's gonna be worth a ton". That is not the sport or the hobby and most will lose their shirt in just about any market. Although your veiwpoint does have merit in the parts dept. I believe these type of views are what has perpetuated this charade. I strongly disagree with you.
Bill

Funny how everyone wants the prices to drop... :confused: If anyone one of the guys wishing for this had a high quality, high dollar car.. they would really want the bottom to fall out?? I find that hard to believe... does it suck to not be able to buy a Musclecar these days becasue the prices are so high?? YEP, sure does.. but that's the way of life.. Homes used to be cheap too.. but not so much anymore... and speaking of homes.. If you bought a home 6 years ago and spent alot of your time and money on improving it.. renovations, upgrades, landscaping, etc.. making it your OWN.. the way you like it... for you!! and then because for one reason or another.. maybe loss of a job, divorce, or a growing family in need of a larger home.. and you were forced to sell... would you be wishing for the market to be bad.. for homes to be selling Cheap?? No, I think you would be wishing that Prices on homes were through the roof!!! So you could get your investment back, or part of it.. Don't kid yourself!! The same goes for these Musclecars.. Many of us bought and built our cars to our own satisfaction!! and spent alot of money doing so...and if ever the time comes to sell them.. we all want to get the very most money we can.. everyone one of you would want the same thing.. don't kid yourself! Do I want the market to slow down, fall out.. NO WAY!! and why shoudl I?? It's the same old story.. those with lesser get angry with those with more, with better.,... not just cars.. everything! but anyone with a Chevelle right now, whether it's a DRIVER, Sunday Cruiser or Full blown Trailered Show Car.. if they decided to sell tomorrow.. would want the market to be RIPE for what they are selling!! If the Market goes sour, it goes sour for those who looking to buy and those who own as well.. remember that.

Mike Crown

Seems to me that the interest/demand for these cars, like those of our fathers and grandfathers, will peak with our generation (40+) and then slowly fade as the next round of car enthusiasts becomes financially able to relive their youth. Interest/Demand= $$ value. Those are likely to be..gulp...the tuner generation, IMO. If you want to secure your old age financially, buy a few scions, hondas, celica's, etc with neon ground effects, monster stereos, gullwing doors, rubber band wheels, fart sounding exhausts, etc. now and store them away in a warehouse for about 20 years, or so. They'll likely sell someday for 20+ times their original cost, too!

Fortunately, there will be exceptions. Just like '57 chevy's that always seem to survive the test of time, hopefully a few of the years of our chevelles will fall into that category with our children's children.

The Europeans and Aussies are buying and paying real good money because the dollar is down so much. I know a guy who is making a living buying less than perfect Mustangs, redoing them and shipping them to Australia.
Ron
Your right, our exchange rate and economy is the best it's been in 10 years, Thanks mainly to China and the US slowdown.
The majority of buyers here want nice drivers, not trailer queens (the 30 -50k cars) and aren't too concerned with them being 100% correct either.
Good quality restored cars will allways be easy to to sell here because of the price of shipping, parts and labour.
We are getting flooded with mustangs and camaros but chevelles are still a fairly rare sight at car shows and cruises.
Muscle car dealers are popping up everywhere and eBay is where most of the deals are done.
I know it sucks for you guys, but if our economy ever dumps you can always buy them back,
I've seen that happen before.

Thanks for the reply's. It basically affirms what I suspected. I don't plan on selling the anytime soon but it's nice to know if I had to I wouldn't lose %50 on the vehicle. I bought the car as a basket case with nothing and had to purchase everything to make the car whole again. The body looked as though they were starting to use it as a parts car at a point in it's life. Gauges were missing, Emblems, Seat, Steering wheel, trim, etc. And in my opinion I've had better parts car. Matter of fact I canibalized another 70 in better shape to get the interior pieces and assorted brackets and sheetmetal to complete the car.

Another thing I've noticed that the most vocal "nay-sayers" of values of cars are the same ones I typically run into that want top dollar for thier stuff. Case in point, a guy I know claim's my 70 Chevelle will only ever be worth 25 grand. But in the next breath says his 72 Nova with a 307 is worth 16 grand?

As with anything I understand fully that something is only worth what someone will pay for the product. Many things motivate the price prospective buyers are willing to pay such as, memories, availability of that certain car, desirebility. Or more simply put supply and demand at point of purchase. And in the case of a 3 million dollar Cuda, insanity.

Another thing I've noticed that the most vocal "nay-sayers" of values of cars are the same ones I typically run into that want top dollar for thier stuff. Case in point, a guy I know claim's my 70 Chevelle will only ever be worth 25 grand. But in the next breath says his 72 Nova with a 307 is worth 16 grand?

Don't you love those A$$ holes :mad:
I think 70s look great in blue & white and being an LS5 4 speed (matching #s or not) you'll have a real great car to enjoy when done and eventually pass down :thumbsup:

It wouldnt bother me if the market went back to the way is was back in the mid 90's price wise.

Am I to think you mean my newly finished frame off sucks. Well Ok, but I will tell you it shouldnt have cost as much as it did. But I loved every minute of the last two years building it. I have done several and have been at this for a long time. I will be at this a lot longer also. You see, I love it. Its not the fact that I have damn near 40k into it and wont get near that out of it. Its the hobby, the sport, and just all the damn fun of it. If I worried about how much it is worth I wouldn't enjoy it as much. Might even park it in a garage so I dont do something to hurt its value. Like maybe drive it. Or race it. Nope dont give a $#$%^& what its worth. I am having a damn good time.
Bill

[quote=66 MYSTERY CHEVELLE;1648908]Funny how everyone wants the prices to drop... /quote]


Mike, I have been around long enough to have seen it all, and there has always been a crowd like this. I remember when a friend of mine bought a nice Yenko Camaro in 1977. I was still in high school, he was a little older than me, and he paid the princly sum of $3200 for it. Everyone said he was crazy........Yeah, like a fox!!!!!! Another friend in the mid eighties bought a 70 LS6.,nice, low mileage car, paid $10,700. everyone then said it was too much. It also was a good buy. Both these owners sold out when the prices got really crazy. The Yenko sold for $17,900 (circa late 80's, another one which I should have paid "crazy" money for.), and the LS6 went for the princely sum of $22,500 in the late 90's (shoulda just paid it). All the while, we had ups and downs in prices, with everyone predicting their downfall. It just never happens. They go up, and there is a price correction and go down. Then everyone jumps back in, and they go right back up again. Count on this, as long as their is interest in these cars, and the interest is key, prices will be somewhat considered high, with some saying it is way too much and should fall into the cellar. This has not changed in the 27 years I have been fooling around with this stuff. As long as the interest remains, and I have a feeling there is a whole bunch of us not ready for the rocking chair for at least 20 more years or more, prices will remain at about what it takes to build them. Labor not included. Some will not meet this standard, some will exceed it, but that is really an underlying influence on the car prices. And Whiskey, you are not the only person who absolutely loves these cars. If I was only in it for the money,profit, etc., there is no way I would have stayed in it this long. I just have come to peace with the ups and downs. Ride the roller coaster and enjoy the ride. I have said before, none of us control this hobby, it controls us.:thumbsup:

Jeff Dotterer
Dated Components
Diamond Restored Judge

I remember one of the very first threads I made when I joined this site. It was about a Nova I had found I was asking if I fixed it up a little how much could it be worht because I really wanted a Chevelle. I got some grief from some of the guys because they were saying I just wanted the money. Which was true then and for that car.

But now after actually driving a Chevelle fairly regularly. I probably wouldn't have sold that Nova ASAP even if I did buy it. I would have had way too much fun just driving the thing. If I found a Chevelle or something I might have sold it to have the money to buy it or whatever the case might have been.

Now I would welcome it if the bottom fell out and these cars became worth what they were once upon a time. I like driving them too much so dollars don't really mean much to me anymore.

Whether it's a BJ special LS6, or a 307 Malibu I would drive it whenever I felt like regardless of the weather.

I hope they go down enough that the guys that will drive them will get a chance at them.

I don't give a crap how much my car is worth. It's worth nothing to me if I'm scared to drive it. Who am I saving it for the next guy? I don't think so.

sometimes I wonder if I have gone completely insane when I think about the $ I'm spending currently on my 70, we'll see. Like many others my dream car was always the LS6, but there was absolutely no way to afford it. Hell, after looking at quite a few "numbers matching" 396s in the last 3 years or so I decided to just go the clone route as many of the numbers matching cars I found needed a ton of work, were missing things I wanted, weren't a color I liked, etc etc.

I made the huge mistake of buying someone elses incomplete project becasue the price was right. Found a 70 that was in the middle of a frame off with the chasis painted, 12 bolt rebuilt, and a rebuilt TH400 for $5500 and thought WOW! this is the one for me! He even had a ton of SS stuff and I thought I had all I needed to do my dream. WRONG! the entire car was in boxes and after dumping a ton into body work (I am not capable or have the tools or anything to do the work) I slowly began to discover to my complete horror that most of the things I had were old junk that couldn't be used or that I was missing a TON of things I needed. I've had the car for almost 2 years now.

Well, the car should be done by spring this year and will have a ZZ502, heddman elites, 3" exhaust, TH400, LS6 tach SS/gauges, buckets etc etc etc....everything I always wanted in MY color choice done to MY standards the way I want it. I didn't cut any corners and 90% of the car will be built with brand new parts. Cost? you don't want to know :) Will I ever get the $ back? no way ;) Will I ever sell it? no way. Will it take me the next 2-3 years to pay off the loan I had to take out? yep.

Will it be worth it? 100% yes :) and I can't wait for spring :) :) :)

You're really only worried about the market being ripe if you're looking to sell at profit.

As mentioned these cars should be bought and built as a hobby, but too many look at it as an investment.

If you have to sell, yes naturally you want to recoup your money but seldom do you. I know. I just did go thru this and have had it happen to me before, and I didn't just sell them because I wanted to.

Mike,
I agree with you, fact is I think most of the folks wanting prices to drop are simply not educated on the markets. Do not understand the value of hard work and effort to improve ones lot in life for themselves and their families. Expecting someone else to do the hard work and then reap the rewards.

Mike, could it be their all Democrats?
Kevin

hmmmmmmmm anyone??? Market?? MARKET??? this is what I mean. This is a sport/hobby. Market?? bussiness?? How many times do you use the word market in your sport?

I would love to see the prices drop because that way i could have a dozen not just 1 or 2! I get as much enjoyment out of workin on them (fixing them up) as I do driving them!
As others have stated i drive mine and dont just polish it and put it back in its bubble and ask what its worth once a month,or watch barret jackson to see what mine might go for?
Would i ever buy an LS6 with 3000 miles on it? Nope because i drive mine like i stole it as often as possible! thats why I drive malibus! Not because their cheap or i cant afford better but because i have common sense, which tells me if i buy the Ls6 i cant play with it for risk of ruining the value (kinda like the weird kid with all the coolest toys but wont take them out of the package!)
I feel the guys most worried about the prices are the Investor types buying the all original numbers Ls6 type of stuff hopeing for the big pay off on resale or the guys that just want them for bragging rights to tell their buddies what they got!!
Its not all about wanting something for nothing its about the true gear head/car guys wanting to enjoy a hobby without morgageing the house to the hilt to enjoy that hobby.
IMHO if your not in it for the fun of it YOU DONT GET IT!!!

Mike,
I agree with you, fact is I think most of the folks wanting prices to drop are simply not educated on the markets. Do not understand the value of hard work and effort to improve ones lot in life for themselves and their families. Expecting someone else to do the hard work and then reap the rewards.

Mike, could it be their all Democrats?
Kevin

Actually I consider myself a conservative Republican and one of the people who hates to see nice classic cars priced out of the range of younger drivers. I noticed the topic of classics going down in value hit a pretty sensitive nerve for some of the posters on here which would lead me to believe that it is a lot more about the money than the driving for some members of this forum.

The classic car market, like all markets, will self regulate. When classics become too expensive for people to own; they will lose interest. That's a shame, because it is about the cars, the driving, the fun and eventually the memories. I have just finished shelling out over $20,000 for my teen age daughter and son to have a couple of classic cars as their first cars. I hope these memories stay with them forever. They didn't get perfect show cars, they got daily drivers in about the same condition my 1958 Chevy was in when I bought it in high school for $200. I'm lucky because I can afford to do that, a lot of people can't.

For those of you who are upset with those of us who "wish" for lower prices; relax. Like my dad used to tell me: "You can wish in one hand and sh.. in the other and see which one gets full the quickest." Muscle cars, in fact any car, will always sell for what someone is willing to pay for it. Never any less and never any more.

I would love to see the prices drop because that way i could have a dozen not just 1 or 2! I get as much enjoyment out of workin on them (fixing them up) as I do driving them!
As others have stated i drive mine and dont just polish it and put it back in its bubble and ask what its worth once a month,or watch barret jackson to see what mine might go for?
Would i ever buy an LS6 with 3000 miles on it? Nope because i drive mine like i stole it as often as possible! thats why I drive malibus! Not because their cheap or i cant afford better but because i have common sense, which tells me if i buy the Ls6 i cant play with it for risk of ruining the value (kinda like the weird kid with all the coolest toys but wont take them out of the package!)
I feel the guys most worried about the prices are the Investor types buying the all original numbers Ls6 type of stuff hopeing for the big pay off on resale or the guys that just want them for bragging rights to tell their buddies what they got!!
Its not all about wanting something for nothing its about the true gear head/car guys wanting to enjoy a hobby without morgageing the house to the hilt to enjoy that hobby.
IMHO if your not in it for the fun of it YOU DONT GET IT!!!


Alright!!!! Thats what I am talkin about!! well put.

Mike,
I agree with you, fact is I think most of the folks wanting prices to drop are simply not educated on the markets. Do not understand the value of hard work and effort to improve ones lot in life for themselves and their families. Expecting someone else to do the hard work and then reap the rewards.



Sorry but thats BS! I have 2 classics worth somewhere between 30-40 grand Which i worked hard for and I own out right.
So because I didnt buy an original ss instead for the same money as an investment, I`m not a hard worker or dont want to better myself or my family? But i want a handout because i have a different opinion than yourself?

I would love to see the prices drop because that way i could have a dozen not just 1 or 2! I get as much enjoyment out of workin on them (fixing them up) as I do driving them!
As others have stated i drive mine and dont just polish it and put it back in its bubble and ask what its worth once a month,or watch barret jackson to see what mine might go for?
Would i ever buy an LS6 with 3000 miles on it? Nope because i drive mine like i stole it as often as possible! thats why I drive malibus! Not because their cheap or i cant afford better but because i have common sense, which tells me if i buy the Ls6 i cant play with it for risk of ruining the value (kinda like the weird kid with all the coolest toys but wont take them out of the package!)
I feel the guys most worried about the prices are the Investor types buying the all original numbers Ls6 type of stuff hopeing for the big pay off on resale or the guys that just want them for bragging rights to tell their buddies what they got!!
Its not all about wanting something for nothing its about the true gear head/car guys wanting to enjoy a hobby without morgageing the house to the hilt to enjoy that hobby.
IMHO if your not in it for the fun of it YOU DONT GET IT!!!

And what would be stopping you from driving that LS6? Is there a mysterious man in a black suit standing in front of the car saying "No!"? Or is it just some mental block that says "Oh man this car is expensive I can't drive it because i don't want it to get any marks from use."?

I drive a 454 Chevelle almost daily without a second thought. Sure it may not be pretty or the almighty LS6. But even if the car was back to brand new again. I would still drive it just as much as I do now.

I really don't understand when people say that they "can't" drive a car. The only time I can understand saying that is if the thing doesn't run.

And what would be stopping you from driving that LS6? Is there a mysterious man in a black suit standing in front of the car saying "No!"? Or is it just some mental block that says "Oh man this car is expensive I can't drive it because i don't want it to get any marks from use."?

I drive a 454 Chevelle almost daily without a second thought. Sure it may not be pretty or the almighty LS6. But even if the car was back to brand new again. I would still drive it just as much as I do now.

I really don't understand when people say that they "can't" drive a car. The only time I can understand saying that is if the thing doesn't run.

I was refering to the guys that buy the 100,000. plus cars for the investment and then freak when someone says the market is dropping.
Face it if you owned an all original never touched or freshly restored 70 SS LS6 with low miles are you gonna put 15 thousand miles a year on it???
These are the cars that drive the pricess up on everyone elses cars even the 307 malibus, So when these fall the rest tend to follow suit.

I was refering to the guys that buy the 100,000. plus cars for the investment and then freak when someone says the market is dropping.
Face it if you owned an all original never touched or freshly restored 70 SS LS6 with low miles are you gonna put 15 thousand miles a year on it???

Yes. I can honestly tell you that I would. :)

Yes. I can honestly tell you that I would. :)

well i commend you for that. but i doubt you would spend 100 thousand for one and still drive it?

hmmmmmmmm anyone??? Market?? MARKET??? this is what I mean. This is a sport/hobby. Market?? bussiness?? How many times do you use the word market in your sport?

I agree...

But I do realize that we all have different perspectives on what old Chevelles mean to us...

Some people are in it purely for speculation and investment.

Some people are in it for ego and investment.

Some people are in it for driving enjoyment and investment.

Some of us want our cars completely original, a show winning piece that rarely sees the light of day (or, gasp, an actual street with traffic).

Some of us want our cars to look original, even if not built that way

Some of us want our cars to be more modern

Some of us want our cars to be completely unique personal expressions

Some of us want our cars to be the iconic Musclecar (the Cranberry Red LS6 with Black Stripes)...

I am sure we all want to sell for as much as we can (if we sell), and buy for the best deal...


BUT, there are those that would NOT buy a classic car IF the investment wasn't there (or at least the potential for profit)... Those are the kinds of people that, IMO are bad for the hobby. They are the ones that look at this like a "market". There might be some sentimental attachment, some nostalgia, but for many, the overall driving factors are money and ego... If the money wasn't there, they'd likely be gone...

Lets face it, if someone doesn't want to drive their car on the street or bang gears, maybe a little spin of the tires because they are worried that something might happen to hurt your investment, then IMO, pick something else to invest in...

Maybe you don't want to subject your car to a potential rock chip, because your idea of "fun" is to have and preserve a perfect example of what once was... Thats fine, thats commendable, thats what you enjoy, thats your "hobby"... I am just talking about those where its due to the potential loss of value...

Yes, there has been some benefit to these people boosting the prices (like the reproduction parts business and insurance carriers)...


I don't think the market will crash, but I do think it will drop... Sure it will rebound eventually, but I think the prices have risen too quickly because of these "investors"

I hate to see anyone in a bad situation, but I'd love all those guys whose main concern was money, to lose their shirts... of course, I really don't want that to happen, because then those that "need" to sell, might also be hurt...

A market crash right now would not put alot of hardship on future restorations... There are already many many parts that can be purchased. not the best quality, but much better than it was 25 years ago when I bought my first Chevelle... And there still are many many people that would still buy parts and pieces to enjoy their Chevelle...


This is only from my perspective...

I love my Chevelles, and I probably paid too much for them, and will probably pay too much fixing them up... But even if their value dropped to that of scrap metal, I'd still be in this hobby...

I enjoy wrenching on my car, making changes, modifications, restoring stuff...

While I have hoped to make money on those few occasions when I did decide to sell, I NEVER expected to make a profit, and I NEVER bought any car with the intention or thought of flipping it for a profit...


For me, selling a car (such as my '66 convertible last year) was only a means to realistically, justifiably afford another "toy". So if classic cars prices plummetted, I could afford more... And have a nice supply of cars to play with...


I am not a "Baby Boomer" that just wants to whip out the check book to buy some nostalgia, or pay someone to do it for me... I could afford to have both of my cars "professionally" restored, or buy something already done, but thats not me... part of this hobby, for ME, is actually working on it as best I can (and trying to stay within a reasonable budget, as my wife doesn't totally understand my passion)... the other part of my hobby, is actually driving the car around town, local cruise-ins, driving several hundred miles to out-of-town shows, maybe spinning the tires a bit (Why else whould someone want a High Performance or Big Block Chevelle?).

Well I wouldn't spend $100k on one. But if by some miracle I had $100k to spend. I certaintly would drive it.

Cars are cars, and they are built to be driven. I love driving these cars way too much to just let them sit.

There are two reasons why a car shouldn't be driven ,at least to me. One is if the car doesn't run, and number two is the price of gas. But if I had $100k to spend on a car I don't think gas would really matter.

Well I wouldn't spend $100k on one. But if by some miracle I had $100k to spend. I certaintly would drive it.

Cars are cars, and they are built to be driven. I love driving these cars way too much to just let them sit.

There are two reasons why a car shouldn't be driven ,at least to me. One is if the car doesn't run, and number two is the price of gas. But if I had $100k to spend on a car I don't think gas would really matter.

I tend to agree...

I am still waiting for that buyer at the B-J auction, to step up, pay the Big $$$ for that Copo/Hemi/LS6 car, and Drive the car home from the auction, smoking the tires and getting sideways out of the BJ parking lot...:D

I tend to agree...

I am still waiting for that buyer at the B-J auction, to step up, pay the Big $$$ for that Copo/Hemi/LS6 car, and Drive the car home from the auction, smoking the tires and getting sideways out of the BJ parking lot...:D

You know thats funny. My dad and me have talked about that exact same thing when we watch BJ. Either he would mention doing that if he bought one of those cars or I would. :D

I guess great minds think alike.

Well I wouldn't spend $100k on one. But if by some miracle I had $100k to spend. I certaintly would drive it.

Cars are cars, and they are built to be driven. I love driving these cars way too much to just let them sit.


This was my point exactly. No one that is in it for the fun I feel would pay 100k for a car and not drive it, Thats why we dont have the 100 k cars COMMON SENSE!

my 71 is in excellent condition with all original body panels no rust ever AZ car was originally a 307 malibu, now a 383 torque monster everything new from radiator to rearend drivetrain wise. I have maybe 12 g in it I know i could sell it for a profit but i never will unless forced to by unforseen events, So i enjoy it to the fullest.
So why pay 100 g for a car i would be affraid to damage for fear of killing its value. Simple as you stated I wouldnt!!!

This was my point exactly. No one that is in it for the fun I feel would pay 100k for a car and not drive it, Thats why we dont have the 100 k cars COMMON SENSE!

my 71 is in excellent condition with all original body panels no rust ever AZ car was originally a 307 malibu, now a 383 torque monster everything new from radiator to rearend drivetrain wise. I have maybe 12 g in it I know i could sell it for a profit but i never will unless forced to by unforseen events, So i enjoy it to the fullest.
So why pay 100 g for a car i would be affraid to damage for fear of killing its value. Simple as you stated I wouldnt!!!

Or because we don't have $100k in our bank accounts maybe? :D

LOL well that too!!

But seriously if i did have 100g`s i would have 20 cheaper cool cars instead of 1 real expensive one!!

I personally don't think the LS6 is all that special. With a little work you could have an LS5 running just as good or better then the LS6.

So you could have a nice LS5, and a mean runner for about half the cost of these godly LS6's. I would personally rather do that then have a numbers matching LS6 car.

You know thats funny. My dad and me have talked about that exact same thing when we watch BJ. Either he would mention doing that if he bought one of those cars or I would. :D

I guess great minds think alike.

If I ever hit the Lotto I would do it! I would buy the most expensive COPO or Yenko at BJ and beat the $hit out of it all the way home to Maryland. I would even hire someone to video tape the whole trip. After getting it home, give it away.

hmmmmmmmm anyone??? Market?? MARKET??? this is what I mean. This is a sport/hobby. Market?? bussiness?? How many times do you use the word market in your sport?


The simple fact that Team Chevelle Exists at all is confirmation that this is indeed a Market. And since when is that a bad word? Is that not what this country was built on? A 'Free Market"? The minute something is worth buying and selling, there will be a market of some type for it. And there will be people like myself who make their living off of it. I can tell you that I am living the American Dream. I work with something I love. How many of us can say that? Not many, I am sure. And I know of lots of others just like me in this hobby. Now are there the profiteers who give it a bad name? Of Course, and they should be rode out of this Market, Hobby, Pastime, or whatever you wish to call it. And I have personally made a career out of doing just that. Some people actually don't like it when you catch their fraudulent parts and cars, and call them out on it. I could tell stories that would last for hours. But the bottom line is this. Cars and Parts magazine reports that the Restoration Parts Membership block of SEMA had a record year. Total sales in the Hobby......Er, Market, for 2007 were $142 Billion. Yep, that was Billion with a B!!!!!! Actually outperformed the street rod market ($101 Billion). Want to guess what will happen if that rolls back due to low prices on cars? You might think the restoration parts market is secure, but I have seen many other parts vendors go out of business in slow times. A market correction, and we will be fine, But a market crash, and all You-know-what will break loose. Businesses only survive on increasing incomes. A stagnant one, or one that turns downward is usually soon gone. Maybe I just have seen to much in how this stuff works. If you want a market correction, I have a feeling it is already here. If you want a market crash, better start stockpiling parts right now. One more thing, it may be a market, but it is a market for hobbiests. I have always tried to understand that and live by that rule. I have always been a hobbiest first and a parts vendor second. I have always had at least 4 or 5 Chevelles at any one moment, and usually if they are sold, it is in pursuit of a better one. Not all of us are in it for money alone, but sure makes it easier to keep a few of them for yourself and still put food in the fridge, and keep a couple of cold ones in the in the back of the Veggie drawer!!!:beers:

Jeff Dotterer
Dated Components
Diamond restored Judge

If you think you will live long enough to recap your investment on a muscle car you have restored, I sure hope you invested well in your 401K. Putting that money in a CD would have been the wiser choice, but you can't drive a CD or show it off at a car show and it certainly doesn't bring back old memories.

I think in about fifteen years it's going to be a "supply and demand" market regarding our muscle cars, unfortunately more supply than demand! Get out and enjoy your muscle car while you can! You knew it was going to be a risk to put that kind of money in a car, but you did it because it was your money and it made you feel good!

Remember...."he who dies with the most toys".........is still dead......

reading this post makes me kind of chuckle. Here we have a bunch of car guys putting alot of money, time, and energy into thirty-forty+ year old cars. Hoping after they spend years restoring thier pride and joy, they want to be able to get at least the money they put into it. But, Im sure theres a few of the same people here thats got about the same or maybe a little less money into some "New" SUV, or luxury car, and not blink a eye when the thing depreciated 20% when they drove it off the car dealers lot. Jim

So my question is, will the car bring enough money to break even when I'm done? Or am I getting worked up over nothing.

It amuses me whenever I hear from someone who's decisions about what to put into their car, or do with their car, are dictated by "how much" they think they might get out of the car when they're done...as if the end result of working on the car and getting it the way you want it, is to sell it.

Unless you're building a Barrett-Jackson type of car...and can find a Barret-Jackson type of buyer...the amount of profit you're going to make on your investment of money, labor, and time putting together a Chevelle is comparatively chump change.

I think the end result of putting together one of these and getting it the way you want it...is to have it and enjoy it.

However, if your decisions are made by how much you think you're going to "get out of it" when you're done with it, or if you're putting one together to sell it and make some money when you're done, then you should have your money invested in the stock market instead.
You'll do much better by investing smartly in the stock market.

I mean, if profit is the end result that you have in mind, why spend weeks, or months working in your garage to make chump change?
Instead, invest smartly in the stock market and let your money work for you.

These cars should be a labor of love. The fruition of that labor should be the completed car itself...built the way you want it and enjoyed.

Most people work 40 hours a week (or more) at a job to make money.
Life is way too short to be spending a lot of your "spare" time trying to make money also.

Regards,
-Greg

All I can say is WOW! I thought Chevelle prices have gone down but that was increadable. Barrett-Jackson auctions selling LS6's for sub 100K??? What is arguably the greatest muscle car of all time is less than 100K??? While a 350 69 camaro sells for over 100K??? are these people eating retard sandwiches?

I guess you guys that are saying you hope the chevelle prices drop might want to be careful what you wish for. You never know with economy, health or just life happenings in general when you might need to sell your prized ride. If your child was in an accident and you needed a lot of cash fast you might be wishing that prized ride was worth a couple bucks more.

Like I stated before, I don't ever PLAN on selling the car. But if the instance arose it would be nice to have a solid asset. I'm not in this hobby to make money. I just want to go fast have fun and scare a couple old ladies along the way.

Also those who say the money is better spent on the stock market, or 401K? Have you been monitoring the trends lately. I figure I lost the better part of the equivilent of a nice paint job to the stock market last week.

All I can say is WOW! I thought Chevelle prices have gone down but that was increadable. Barrett-Jackson auctions selling LS6's for sub 100K??? What is arguably the greatest muscle car of all time is less than 100K??? While a 350 69 camaro sells for over 100K??? are these people eating retard sandwiches?

I guess you guys that are saying you hope the chevelle prices drop might want to be careful what you wish for. You never know with economy, health or just life happenings in general when you might need to sell your prized ride. If your child was in an accident and you needed a lot of cash fast you might be wishing that prized ride was worth a couple bucks more.

Like I stated before, I don't ever PLAN on selling the car. But if the instance arose it would be nice to have a solid asset. I'm not in this hobby to make money. I just want to go fast have fun and scare a couple old ladies along the way.

Also those who say the money is better spent on the stock market, or 401K? Have you been monitoring the trends lately. I figure I lost the better part of the equivilent of a nice paint job to the stock market last week.


Well first off I have medical insurance for in case a family member gets sick, I invested some cash about 2 years ago in gold 900 an ounce!! sweet!!! much easier to make profits from buying selling other stuff besides cars!!
I dont think anyone wants to see the prices of these cars crash through the floor but a more sane realistic range would be nice instead of 8-10 grand for a 67-69 camaro rusted shell or 10-20 for an ss chevelle 70-72 that is rusted and need complete resto!! thats all.

I tend to agree...

I am still waiting for that buyer at the B-J auction, to step up, pay the Big $$$ for that Copo/Hemi/LS6 car, and Drive the car home from the auction, smoking the tires and getting sideways out of the BJ parking lot...:D

Can't say he did any burn-outs, but he DROVE it home after paying 4mil for it. Here he goes down the 101 towards Chandler, AZ!! :yes:

http://members.aol.com/imnokla/future.jpg

I dont think anyone wants to see the prices of these cars crash through the floor but a more sane realistic range would be nice instead of 8-10 grand for a 67-69 camaro rusted shell or 10-20 for an ss chevelle 70-72 that is rusted and need complete resto!! thats all.

Thank you! nuff said! I remember back in 1992 when we drove my dad's 69 SS chevelle home for $2800. And it really didn't need a thing.

[QUOTE=camarofreak;1668176]Well first off I have medical insurance for in case a family member gets sick, I invested some cash about 2 years ago in gold 900 an ounce!! sweet!!! much easier to make profits from buying selling other stuff besides cars!!
QUOTE]


Most insurances only go so far. My Grandmothers cancer treatment/hospital bills has far exceded what thier insurance was able to cover. Just remember some families are not so fortunate to have medical insurance like you and I.

That's a great picture!!! Guess they didn't worry about his check clearing!!;)

IMHO quality cars with paperwork, in desirable colors, with popular trim, engine and trans combos will (hopefully) still be good future investments (even without the original engine)
I looked for 6 months for a quality "done" fathom blue/white stripe 454 - 4 speed 70 SS for sale and found nothing under 50K (this was a year ago though)
So relax :cool: and don't cut corners on the resto because it'll come back and bite you on the a$$ if you are stuck with it for a while.

Absolutely right. These cars are still desirable. It is the so so cars,clones and tributes that are going begging.

Absolutely right. These cars are still desirable. It is the so so cars,clones and tributes that are going begging.

begging?? did you watch barret jackson?? the resto mods and tributes were bringing close to what the real ss stuff was goin for?? I think any car done right with the right combonations 4-5-6 speeds in the right color with the right wheels will bring big money be it ss or clone or resto mod!!

Most insurances only go so far. My Grandmothers cancer treatment/hospital bills has far exceded what thier insurance was able to cover. Just remember some families are not so fortunate to have medical insurance like you and I.



if they cant afford insurance i dont think they could afford a high dollar chevelle??

Wow this is a great post/ I have a70 Chevelle 396 with factory A/C fathom blue pearl int. I bought this car on the high side and have spent hours and more dollars making it completely correct. Well almost...I have not changed the carb back to a Rodchester from the Holly it has now. I also have HEI ignition which I feel is better. But as far as driving it...well Florida is a great place. I drive it often but I still keep it away from the rain. I like to keep the undercarraige as clean as the rest of the car. I hope someday if I decide to sell it, to buy another and start again. I would hope to get at least my mobey back, or maybe a slight profit. I think the value should climb slowley as the car becomes older? Anyway, just my opinion....