Sorry if this has been asked....I am planning on converting my Nova into a manual. I wanted to use a 4 speed Muncie but I'm wondering if there's a 5 speed that is a direct bolt in for a 4 speed Muncie?

Meaning, it uses the same cross member, same manual clutch, etc?

Richmond claims their 5 speed is a direct bolt-in. I've asked for info on installing one of them months ago but it seems most are staying 4 speed or going with Tremec's.

Might do a search for past articles as there was a link to a Corvette site that had notes of an install. If my recall is accurate, it fit like "feet in slippers" (no issues).

I would get a TKO600. Direct bolt in, just have to cut/trim the floor a bit and weld or screw in a patch.

Sorry if this has been asked....I am planning on converting my Nova into a manual. I wanted to use a 4 speed Muncie but I'm wondering if there's a 5 speed that is a direct bolt in for a 4 speed Muncie?

Meaning, it uses the same cross member, same manual clutch, etc?

If by direct bolt in with no mods of any type, the answer is no. The TKO for a A body car require more than a "bit" of floor cutting. The later cars require a large cut out over the trans, the better kits come with the metal to fab a new tunnel to cover the trans.

Look on Calssic Chevy 5 speeds web site for you car, thay have install pictures.

I'm putting a Richmond 5 speed overdrive in my '66 SS. Two big reasons I went with the Richmond. First, it takes a stock length driveshaft, not a real biggie, I will be building a stronger driveshaft anyway. Second, the top of transmission is not greatly oversize to accomodate shift rails. The Richmond has operating rods on the side just like the old Muncies and Borg Warners.
I will be setting the body down on a completed frame, I will let you guys know how well it fits, that will be at least a couple weeks away though.

If by direct bolt in with no mods of any type, the answer is no. The TKO for a A body car require more than a "bit" of floor cutting. The later cars require a large cut out over the trans, the better kits come with the metal to fab a new tunnel to cover the trans.

Look on Calssic Chevy 5 speeds web site for you car, thay have install pictures.

Yes Wally I am aware of the TKO's and how you have to hack up the trans tunnel for it to fit. Which is why I will not run a TKO.

I want something that will allow me to not have to butcher up the virgin sheet metal. :yes:

Sorry if this has been asked....I am planning on converting my Nova into a manual. I wanted to use a 4 speed Muncie but I'm wondering if there's a 5 speed that is a direct bolt in for a 4 speed Muncie?

Meaning, it uses the same cross member, same manual clutch, etc?

Richmond claims their 5 speed is a direct bolt-in. I've asked for info on installing one of them months ago but it seems most are staying 4 speed or going with Tremec's.

Yes, the Richmond 5-speed... Sorry, CC, I don't racall your post...

The shifter hole needs some enlarging/massaging (but it usually does anyway for a Hurst shifter on the Muncie). Depending on the shifter and floorpan , the rods might rub the tunnel ; clearance the floor or lower the trans/mount slightly for clearance.

Richmond bolts directly to the stock bellhousing, uses the same clutch input as the Muncie (there are 2 different splines/versions for the Muncie, and the Richmond takes the later 26 spline clutch disk).

The Richmond can use the same driveshaft as a Muncie/Powerglide/TH350, just the front slip yoke needs to be changed (as easy as changing a U-joint, and I actually just found the correct yoke at the wrecking yard, TH400).

The stock cross-member works. I recall needing to slide it back further on the frame rails, but two "stock" holes still lined up (instead of the original four, so I used two grade-8 bolts, no problems). Stock speedo cable (drivers-side) hooks right up.


The "typical" Richmond is NOT an overdrive, but that shouldn't matter much unless you already have/already purchased "low" rear gears... It does have a lower first gear to work with "factory" highway gear ratios for better launch, etc...

Since the Richmonds (used to be called "Doug Nash" before Richmond bought the rights) have been around for 25+ years, you can often find used units pretty inexpensively (compared to buying a completely new conversion kit)...

I installed a nice used setup, with a new clutch/flywheel and shifter for well under $2000.

Keilser has a modified tko600 that they claim can fit without cutting the floor pans. I think they trim the top of the trans housing so it better contours the floor of the car. Of course I don't know anyone who has tried their trans, but I have their repro bellhousing and I can't say better things about it.

What if you want to keep the original 4 speed console?

Keilser has a modified tko600 that they claim can fit without cutting the floor pans. I think they trim the top of the trans housing so it better contours the floor of the car. Of course I don't know anyone who has tried their trans, but I have their repro bellhousing and I can't say better things about it.

What if you want to keep the original 4 speed console?

The keisler mod still requires you to cut your floorpans, just not as much. They make offset shifters to work in the original 4 speed console. If you patch the floor well, noone will ever be able to tell you cut them by looking at the carpet.

I don't have pictures of the under side but there is trimming involved the location of the 5 spd shifter moves it over and would have interfered with my console so I had a custom one made

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m187/fshrmn_2006/newupload113.jpg
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m187/fshrmn_2006/newupload115.jpg
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m187/fshrmn_2006/newupload116.jpg

Mike, sorry to hear you had this problem. Perhaps it is your year. I know there are people with 66's and 67's using the offset shifter. They got it from cc5s and I think its made by Mcleod?

I have the Hurst shifter and the Long shifter neither one of them mentioned that there was an offset available. I will be keeping the Long shifter I could not tell if there was a difference in performance between the two. Now what to do with the Hurst?:rolleyes:

I saw this early this AM and didn't have time to post. Tony has pretty much covered it. Richmond 5 spd is awesome IMO. I ordered mine new w/10 spline 3.27 1st gear ratio. I love mine and I'm using the Hurst comp plus shifter, which gets a lot of negative press on here. I mostly run my car at the track and the trans/shifter work flawlessly. I moved my stock crossmember back 1 hole like Tony said, but I drilled another set of holes. Those of us that have installed Richmond 5 spd trans usually can't get a word in edgewise because of the TKO guys (knock it off Brett and Mark) covering up with a bunch of OD banter :D. Oman, Gene (427L88), myself, and others have tried to respond to this topic before. If you search Richmond 5 speed, there is an abundance of info. Gene posted detailed info on the trans c member mods to get angle correct and Oman's posts were particularly informative prior to my decision to go with the Richmond trans. Hope this helps.

Yes, the Richmond 5-speed... Sorry, CC, I don't racall your post...

The shifter hole needs some enlarging/massaging (but it usually does anyway for a Hurst shifter on the Muncie). Depending on the shifter and floorpan , the rods might rub the tunnel ; clearance the floor or lower the trans/mount slightly for clearance.

Richmond bolts directly to the stock bellhousing, uses the same clutch input as the Muncie (there are 2 different splines/versions for the Muncie, and the Richmond takes the later 26 spline clutch disk).

The Richmond can use the same driveshaft as a Muncie/Powerglide/TH350, just the front slip yoke needs to be changed (as easy as changing a U-joint, and I actually just found the correct yoke at the wrecking yard, TH400).

The stock cross-member works. I recall needing to slide it back further on the frame rails, but two "stock" holes still lined up (instead of the original four, so I used two grade-8 bolts, no problems). Stock speedo cable (drivers-side) hooks right up.


The "typical" Richmond is NOT an overdrive, but that shouldn't matter much unless you already have/already purchased "low" rear gears... It does have a lower first gear to work with "factory" highway gear ratios for better launch, etc...

Since the Richmonds (used to be called "Doug Nash" before Richmond bought the rights) have been around for 25+ years, you can often find used units pretty inexpensively (compared to buying a completely new conversion kit)...

I installed a nice used setup, with a new clutch/flywheel and shifter for well under $2000.

Yes I was inquiring about if I could reuse the stock TH350 auto cross member, and what kind of yoke I'd need to make it to my driveshaft, and if any driveshaft mods would be required.

And yes I ain't hacking up my trans tunnel.

Not Tony, and I can't address the crossmember issue, but you will need a T400 yoke. My car is an original 4 spd car.

JYD if you are going from an auto to a manual then there will be tunnel changes.

JYD if you are going from an auto to a manual then there will be tunnel changes.

I can deal with cutting a hole in the floor.

I cannot deal with hacking the crap out of the tunnel and front seat to accomodate a trans not designed to fit the car.

I saw how Lou did this on Musclecar. That's how I'd do it if I wanted to do it back woods style. :)

I don't have pictures of the under side but there is trimming involved the location of the 5 spd shifter moves it over and would have interfered with my console so I had a custom one made

http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m187/fshrmn_2006/newupload113.jpg
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m187/fshrmn_2006/newupload115.jpg
http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m187/fshrmn_2006/newupload116.jpg

Hey Mike,wheres your tranny & shifter ????
LOL LOL
Guy

Those of us that have installed Richmond 5 spd trans usually can't get a word in edgewise because of the TKO guys (knock it off Brett and Mark) covering up with a bunch of OD banter :D. Oman, Gene (427L88), myself, and others have tried to respond to this topic before. If you search Richmond 5 speed, there is an abundance of info. Gene posted detailed info on the trans c member mods to get angle correct and Oman's posts were particularly informative prior to my decision to go with the Richmond trans. Hope this helps.

Thanks. I saw this thread and promised myself I would only read it and that I would not comment or add anything of editorial nature. Nice to see that I helped someone. Gene and I have talked about this before (offline) and I have supplied him with a detailed Richmond "shopmanual" that used to be supplied with the trans when it came from Doug Nash.

If you need / want one for your "tech library" let me know. I can gen up a copy. Send an e-mail to me and I will get it back via snail mail. The "manual" is short possibly 10 pages but it has all the exploded views and some critical clearances listed as well as some part number listings and an assembly disassembly sequence. Some but not all of the info in the manual is now avail on the web.

BTW..NICE looking Chevelle

I saw this early this AM and didn't have time to post. Tony has pretty much covered it. Richmond 5 spd is awesome IMO. I ordered mine new w/10 spline 3.27 1st gear ratio. I love mine and I'm using the Hurst comp plus shifter, which gets a lot of negative press on here. I mostly run my car at the track and the trans/shifter work flawlessly. I moved my stock crossmember back 1 hole like Tony said, but I drilled another set of holes. Those of us that have installed Richmond 5 spd trans usually can't get a word in edgewise because of the TKO guys (knock it off Brett and Mark) covering up with a bunch of OD banter :D. Oman, Gene (427L88), myself, and others have tried to respond to this topic before. If you search Richmond 5 speed, there is an abundance of info. Gene posted detailed info on the trans c member mods to get angle correct and Oman's posts were particularly informative prior to my decision to go with the Richmond trans. Hope this helps.

OK, I'll chime in..................

First of all, I didn't "hack" or "butcher" my car nor did I have to alter my bench seat to install my TKO. Yes I did have to cut the tunnel but it wasn't catastraphic. If the Richmond 5 SP OD would have been available, I may have jumped on it instead but it wasn't an option when I changed trannys and I wanted an OD in a bullet proof trans. The TKO fit the bill.

That being said, you have to see Mike's car and watch him pilot it down the strip to get the full effect of how awesome the Richmond 5 speed is. Mike has the right balance of power, gears and suspension and its deadly on the 1320. As I said, if the OD had been available I would have really considered it. The only problem with it seems to be the requirement to use a glove when running the car...............:D (Mike will have to explain)

Whatever happened to the Muncie 5-speed project?

Hey Guy, Brian at S-K has the trans checking the gears and machining the hubs and sliders also new bearings if needed and new syncros. Thanks for the funnies also I don't get to the E-mail often that is on my wifes side of the computer

Mike, sorry to hear you had this problem. Perhaps it is your year. I know there are people with 66's and 67's using the offset shifter. They got it from cc5s and I think its made by Mcleod?

Brett,

I think Mike (Aukai) is using the Richmond 5-speed... the "offset shifter" is something the Tremecs use to fit the early cars (I think its a pretty pricey option too).


As for the shifter/console interference. My car was originally a bench-seat column-shifted auto that I converted years ago to a Muncie/console... The Richmond was a direct swap, using a Long shifter.

I did not have a problem with the shifter hitting the console, BUT I modified the shifter to mount a factory Chevelle handle and look stock... I actually cut and welded a bracket to the Long shifter to mount an unaltered factory handle...

The handle was offset slightly (front to rear) compared to the Long shifter...

I also lowered the crossmember pad too, because my modified handle looked like it sat too tall. this also solved a slight interference problem with the linkage "rubbing" the tunnel... But it will still work without modifiying the crossmember...


As for the cross-member and frame holes, I had a convertible, so I couldn't just drill additional holes; there was no more room on the bracket...


It is very easy to move the console slightly to clear the shifter and NOT be noticible... I actually slid my console back about 1/2"+ on simple brackets (I couldn't get the shifter handle far enough forward without messing up the mounting).



As for "no overdrive", it was okay for me... I was planning on building a new rearend anyway, so I stuffed a spare 12-bolt with 2.73 gears and a stock posi unit. This made the overall first gear ratio similar (a little better actually) than factory 3.73/M21, but with 2.73 for freeway cruising... I actually preffered having the driveshaft RPMs lower than with an OD trans...

I also liked the fact that my trans was a close ratio, whereas, most of the Tremecs I was looking at had much larger gear spread that I wanted to avoid...

In all honesty, my main reason for the Richmond was price of the swap... At the time it cost me less than $2000 total (about $1500+ for the trans/shifter).

At that time, the Tremec swaps were much higher, I think I recall somewhere around $3500+ by the time you got the driveshaft, clutch, cross-member, etc, etc. There was also no offset shifter offered at that time (about 5 years ago?), and I didn't want the wide gear drops. I wasn't too worried about cutting the floor...


If I was doing another conversion today, I'd look more closely at all these new TKO kits...

If I was converting from an auto, I'd definitely be leaning that way (TKO)... Of course, price is still an issue, but not as much as it was a few years ago...

I think its still around $4k. I converted from auto so I had to buy pedals and I am using the 11" clutch pressure plate good to 600 hp which is now considered an "upgrade".

Do a search for the long awaited Muncie 5-speed OD tranny and you will find that it is basically just a MUNCIE in NAME ONLY!!

And fwiw, it still AIN'T on the market yet!!!

pdq67

Do a search for the long awaited Muncie 5-speed OD tranny and you will find that it is basically just a MUNCIE in NAME ONLY!!

And fwiw, it still AIN'T on the market yet!!!

pdq67

Now now now. Don't pick on the new Muncie Five Speed overdrive. The true believers around here will rise up and strike you down.