I had this in tech but I should have posted it here.
2 bolt block half filled studed mains and heads
lunati or callies crank (opinions?)
Crower rods 6in.
Je srp pistons 12.5 to 1
Solid roller 290 on a 104-105?
Arf 210 heads with some cartridge roll clean up
vic. jr. 850 holley 4150
msd ign.
The car is a 80 camaro (sorry no chevelle yet). Th 350 trans 3000 stall conv. 4.56 gear 28 in. slick.
What do you guys think I should run for a cam? I will swap out for an ATI conv., if I should, I think I could go higher. What kind of numbers should I expect? Thanks for the repies

Any idea what the car weighs?

I have not weighed it, I will as soon as spring weather gets here. I took out the bumper and brackets, inner wheel wells,heater box, padding under the carpet,p.s., has manual gear box, fiberglass hood, I know they arn't the lighest, but I have to of taken off at least 250 lb.?

A 12.5:1 406 with good heads and matching solid roller will go solid mid-10's in a 3500lb car. Just not with a 3000 stall, more like 5000. If your intent is to stay with a 3000 stall you'll need to dial back your gear, cam and compression. If you really want 12.5 comp and 4.56 gears you'll need a cam in the ball park of 264/272@.050 (maybe a little more) but the 3k converter will have to go.

I agree, thats a bit of a mismatch. The rest of the combo screams 4500-7000+rpm drag race monster(well, the heads, gear, and compression are capable), but then it sounds as if you might be trying to trick it into being streetable by running a milder converter and cam. That wont really work out. Like John said, if you stick with static comp numbers that high, you will want a lot of camshaft to make it worth it, and in turn, you will want a lot more than a 3000 stall to keep up with the cam youd need.

Are you looking for a strictly drag setup or is this street minded? I would think that this is a drag only effort, but if not, Id probably rethink that static comp and gear selection. Id keep the heads, go with around 10.7-11:1 compression, a 3500 to 3800 converter and for a cam, the crane 294 roller looks pretty good. These are the specs. 294/302 advertised duration, 244/252 duration at .050, valve lift is .543/.561. Its part number is 118521. Thats a 11 second motor. Definitely at least mid 11's and itll go low 11's. In the right car with some dyno tuning, it could possibly break high tens, but thats a little bit of a stretch. The track would have to be good and the tuneup would have to be on and of course the chassis cause its right at the level where it could go low 11's, high 10's on a good day. Thats probably just about as far as youd want to take it for a motor that will still be driven from time to time(thats as far as Id want to go at least).

If you wanna up the ante a bit, go with more like 11-11.5:1 compression, same heads, a minimum of a 3800 converter(probably about a 4200+ would be best for this cam at the drags) and the crane 118741 camshaft. Its got 248/256 duration at .050 and .630 lift on both intake and exhaust. That will make it easier to get you into the 10's without all the stars aligning just right. It will take even a bit more yet to go comfortably into the 10's. If you want mid tens or better for sure, the combo will look more like what John said. Thats gettin up there. If all of this sounds like a bit much to you and you want to be fast, but more streetable than anything that has been mentioned so far, forced induction or nitrous is probably the way to go. You could build a more streetable 11.90-12.10 second motor with a solid flat tappet nitrous horsepower camshaft(something like 240 degrees duration at .050 or just a little less with 1.6 rockers making about and about .540 lift) with those same heads again, 10:1 compression and a 3200-3500 converter, but hit it with a 175 shot and lose a little over a second, which is definite potential for getting you into the 10's. Yet, you dont have to deal with the headaches of a huge converter and 12.5:1 compression when your driving to and from the track. Id probably say 4.10 gears for that motor there would be good. I guess before we make to many more reccomendations, it would be good to hear what you want this car to be able to do and what kind of useage it will see cause I cant tell for sure which way you want to go.

your going to need to convert it to four bolt mains or your going to see cap walk. callies crank and crower or callies rods sounds great, and the je pistons sound good.

I am going to assume this is not a street deal,,

,, unless you are VERY good at porting,, stay away from the AFR's with the cartridge rolls ;)
Outstanding heads but real easy to screw them up with very little effort unless you have a lot of time & experience on a bench,,,

And I agree, the cam is too small for the compression but the Callies crank, Crower rods & JE/SRP pistons are excellent pieces.
Also agree, a two bolt block ain't gonna make it with 12.5 & the RPM it appears you are planning. ;)

Yeah this is going to be more of a strip thing. The only reason I stated the stall is because it is already in the car. Iknow that I will want to change it. I wanted to keep the rpm under 6500. Because of the block. You guys think I am really going to see a problem? What makes the afr heads easy to screw up? I was just going the take the cnc lines out. But mabee I will stay away. Thanks alot.

Oh,
Thanks for the cam recomendation. I am new to rollers and don't know how to compare them to a flat tappet.

Mike, as far as the two bolt vs four bolt deal, wouldnt it be best to start with a good year, stronger 2 bolt block(like a 509 cast), fill it about half way with hard block and machine it for splayed 4 bolt caps? Maybe its just a rumor, but Id always heard when dealing with 400 blocks the two bolts are stronger to start with and converting a two bolt to splayed four bolt mains will prove to be stronger than a 4 bolt to begin with. Maybe not, but thats what I though.

As far as the heads go. The reason they are easy to screw up is because they really are very well profiled to begin with. They dont have huge ports, yet they move pretty huge air. A lot of it is due to the way the port is contoured, which they are made in such a way to move a lot of air through a relatively small port. Porting them can change the shape and charactoristics of the head, making them not as effective as their box stock condition. Thats why you should definitely be an experienced head porter, as well as being very familiar with AFR heads.

Back to the cam and compression thing, for a 6500rpm motor, youd be good with probably 11:1 compression at best, 4.11 gears and a 3500-3800 converter at the most Id say. That first cam I reccomended would be pretty close(part number 118521) and another crane cam that falls in line is part number 118581). It is a bit more milder, and that might actually do well if you plan to keep it at 6500 or less. The smallest camshaft that would make sense for a 6500rpm 406 is crane part number 118551). With that cam, id proably keep compression around 10.5:1 with about a 3500 converter, and it should rev to 6500rpm, but I dont think it will be as strong over 6000rpm as the others mentioned. It doesnt have to be a crane cam either, but Im sure you will find that the specs will be similar reguardless of who you go with. Your best bet is to talk to your cam grinder of choice and see what they reccomend for a roller cam that pulls a 406 to 6500rpm strong, and what would they say is best for compression with the cam they pick. They know better than I do. Than, talk to your converter maker of choice and see what they spec for a converter. Once again, they too know better than I do.

Ok,
I won't touch the heads. I wasn't planing on "porting" just a polish job. Expecally the exhast. As far as compression, 11 to 1 is race gas. So I think it is stupid to not go 12.5 or 13 to 1 if I have to run race gas any ways. I am going to the machine shop right now, if I can convert to 4 bolt for less than 500 I am going to do it. And 7000 is fine with me. Thanks guys

Let me suggest this. Get the compression as high as you can using a flat top piston. If 12.5:1 is gonna require a dome then you might as well go 14:1. You can get around 12.5-13 with a 58cc chamber and tight quench.

I can see what you guys are saying about being streetable. The car gos 12.30 s now with a 350 11.6 to 1, 240 at .050 solid, home ported 461s. I run av gas now 2.70 a gal. So I am not really streetable or really fast. I can give up streetable as long as I can drive around town a little (middle of now were) mabee 15 mile round trip. 5000 stall is ok with me.

I read the afr 76 cc heads flow best and to mill the to get a smaller chamber. How far can I mill the afr? Can I mill enough to get 12.5 with a flat top?

I would call AFR direct for that info. Probably will require an angle mill to get them down that small. Have you considered other heads??

What other heads should I consider?

Whats the budget for the heads?

About $1500. What are you thinking?
I just got back from the shop. Oh corse there are no promises but he thinks if we stud it and really watch the clearences we should be ok. It will cost 500 plus the caps, He said he wouldn't do it.
Also how do I get 12.5 to 1 out of afr heads? We can only get 11.2 to 1 pistons with a 76cc head. I don't think you can use a dome with the smaller chamber.
If you guys think I will deffinatly blow it with out a 4 bolt, I may have to step down on the power level a little.

I believe you will need the splayed caps for a strong effort 406. You need to select a head that flows strong and has a chamber around 64cc that can just be flat milled down around 60cc. I use the Dart
Pro-1 215's that have been fully ported. They went around 310cfm@700 and were 64cc stock then flat milled down to 60. My compression is right at 12.5 with a flat top and 6cc worth of valve reliefs.

I wish I could. All this machine work and porting is going to send me over budget. I can't afford to do the 4 bolt thing. I want to do as little machine work as possible. As I will have to have money for the susspention and fuel system.
I can get 12 to 1 with 76cc head, 8cc piston dome and the piston .005 out of the hole with a .041 gasket. That is my compromise. What cam and converter do you recomend? If the block will not do it, I may have to short shift at 6500. If I can see a 10.90 this year I am happy. And mabee I can find a 4 bolt or bow tie next year. Thanks

Originally posted by iwantachevelle:
About $1500. What are you thinking?
I just got back from the shop. Oh corse there are no promises but he thinks if we stud it and really watch the clearences we should be ok. It will cost 500 plus the caps, He said he wouldn't do it.
Also how do I get 12.5 to 1 out of afr heads? We can only get 11.2 to 1 pistons with a 76cc head. I don't think you can use a dome with the smaller chamber.
If you guys think I will deffinatly blow it with out a 4 bolt, I may have to step down on the power level a little. Ok, the AFR,s will go to about 56cc's.
You need about 58cc's for 12.5
AFR has a 66cc 210 that will put you at 11.3 with no extra charges.
This is a flat top at zero deck.
If you stick the piston out .005 you are at 11.5
If you use the 4cc SRP .010 down you will be at 12.3
The deal on not using the 68cc head refers to the 195's which are a completely different casting than a 210.

If you keep the RPM to 6500, 7000 max & do not detonate the engine you can probably get away with 2 bolt caps in a limited deal like you are talking about now.
If you try to RPM it or start getting serious you are going to need splayed caps.
I have done a lot of limited circle trace deals with 2 bolt caps & they are pretty reliable to about 450-500 honest HP & 6500 RPM.
From there on the success rate tends to drop real fast but remember these run a little longer than 12 seconds or so at a time :D

And yes a 2 bolt 400 has a better track record than the 4 bolt. I don't particularly like 4bolt 400's as the tend to crack in the outer bolt holes.
A 2 bolt 400 will take more abuse than a 2 bolt 350 simply because it has larger registers & more clamping area.
for more info on blocks go read this, it's a little long but some good info ;)
http://www.chevelles.com/cgi-bin/forum/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=9;t=016286

Thank you so much wolfplace. That is exactly what I needed to hear about the heads. The engine is over my budget now, so the 2 bolt is what I will live wtih. And I think it is one of those things were it may run for ever or may blow the first time. But I will take it easy until Next year when I will try and find a bow tie. If I can get around 12-12.5 to 1 should I be looking at a cam with 260 @ .050? What kind of lsa? Thanks

Originally posted by iwantachevelle:
Thank you so much wolfplace. That is exactly what I needed to hear about the heads. The engine is over my budget now, so the 2 bolt is what I will live wtih. And I think it is one of those things were it may run for ever or may blow the first time. But I will take it easy until Next year when I will try and find a bow tie. If I can get around 12-12.5 to 1 should I be looking at a cam with 260 @ .050? What kind of lsa? Thanks =
Yes, you will want a cam in the 260 range at .050, depends on where you are going to run the engine to.
You don't just cam the engine for compression, you look at the RPM first.
You will not need as much split with the AFR heads as they have a very good exhaust. This is assuming you have a good system behind them or are running with no exhaust.
I would prefer separation at 106-108.

If you email me I can help you with the AFR's,, might even be able to save you a dollar or two ;)

You'd need about 58cc to get 12.5:1 assuming .010 deck, double eyebrow flat top with -5cc, .030" thick head gasket, .030" overbore, and a 4.155 bore gasket. iwanta, please tell me you magged that block. Through a miscommunication with the machine shop, mine didn't and it was reduced to a bucket of parts in about 20 miles!

Nothing has been done with the block yet, It will get tested. As far as the heads go, I e-mailed you about a month ago. I will most likely buy them from you. Do you have the 210 in 66cc? If not how long do you think it would take to get them out to Mi.? I will be ordering in a week or two. As far as rpm, What do you suggest? If 6500 is as high as I want to go then will 260 be too much? Would you spin this thing to 7000? If I can get a high 10 at 6500 that will be fine for this year. Thanks

If you haven't done anything to the block, get it machined for 4 bolt mains now. Every other machineing operation registers off the mains, so you can't go back and get it done later. Then you can run the compression and rpm you really want. It doesn't need to be splayed but that is a better idea, and you better get that thing honed with plates too or that thing is never going to seal. I'm not sure if you can use 350 main caps but if you can they about as common as pennys.

Originally posted by kstanbach:
If you haven't done anything to the block, get it machined for 4 bolt mains now. Every other machineing operation registers off the mains, so you can't go back and get it done later. Then you can run the compression and rpm you really want. It doesn't need to be splayed but that is a better idea, and you better get that thing honed with plates too or that thing is never going to seal. I'm not sure if you can use 350 main caps but if you can they about as common as pennys. =
Just my opinion but,,,
You absolutely do not want to machine a 400 block for anything but splayed caps.
If you put a straight 4 bolt cap on a 400 all you have done is weakened the thinnest part of the main webbing.
This is why the 2 bolt block is the more desirable one in a 400.
Again, a 400 block will hold up reasonably well up to about 450 to 500 HP & 6500.
And again, this info is not from one experience but a number of them ;)
If you missed the link I posted above here it is again.
http://www.chevelles.com/cgi-bin/forum/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=9;t=016286

Go read it, lots of very good info.

For drag racing I would not be afraid of 7000 on occasion but this in my opinion is pushin it.

Yes, A 260is cam would be right for 12.5:1 compression, but I still dont see niether that much compession or a cam that large necessary for a 6500-7000rpm redline. Id say a 250ish cam with between 11-11.5:1 compression. With those heads and a solid roller cam specd similar to what I mentiond, you outa be able to wring 550+ horses and a high ten second pass out of it. You wont need to rev to the moon either and the point or more less compression will ease up on the bottom end a bit. I know your kinda thinking that since youd be running race gasoline anyways, why not go for all the compression you can get. Really, dropping the compression ratio a point or a little more isnt going to effect power production by a huge amount, so Id go a little less to keep it easier on the motor, especially since your goals are definitel reachable with the lower compression. Another thing, its not exactly the case that 11:1 compression means race gas for sure. Depending on the cam specs and the tuneup, you can make an 11:1 pump gas motor. Not saying that its the easiest thing to do, but static compression numbers alone arent the only determining factor for what gas you need. Back to the original point though, I dont think you need to blow this buildup that far out of proportion just to net a high ten. If you break the 500 horsepower mark(which does not require such a huge cam or compression) and really concentrate on the suspension and drivetrain you can be safely into the 10's.

Ah, I stand corrected, I know that the 2 bolt main 400s are more desirable, but I thought it was due to casting techniques or casting errors not present in two bolt main 400s, and adding regular 4 bolt mains would work as Smokey Yunick has said,” four-bolt, nodular-iron cap arrangement will work just fine up to about 550 hp" and he is talking endurance racing. The reason I'm so adamant about the 4 bolt main is from reading CNC block dude's opinion and Smokey Yunick. I’m also considering the new LS1s are straight four bolts(although cross bolted).

Well it looks like I will end up with about 11.9 to 1 area. What size cam should I run if I shift at 6500? And will this thing make 550 hp?