Does anyone know "why" a solid state relay would have a different post configuration than a regular relay?
I bought a Hella solid state relay, plugged it into my relay socket and my vacuum pump came on W/O the key on and wouldnt shut off?
It didn't do that with a regular relay?
Help please, what am I doing wrong?
T.C.

Got any part numbers? What powers the relay? How do you normally turn it on and off?

Thanks for the reply:
Here is the Summit link I ordered the relay from.

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=HLA%2DH41773001&N=700+115&autoview=sku

What I am using it for is to turn my vacuum pump on a off via a Stainless Steel Brakes Vacuum switch.
When the vac. switch see's less than 17" of vac. it switches, completing that circuit to ground.
The vac. circuit completes the coil circuit in the relay witch in turn closes the points in the relay and turns on the vac. pump.
I have been using regular relays but thought this solid state relay would last longer as the regular ones have been going out about every four months.
Yes I have been using quality relays, I think it's just the fact they switch so many times they just wear out?
T.C.

Does anyone know "why" a solid state relay would have a different post configuration than a regular relay?
I bought a Hella solid state relay, plugged it into my relay socket and my vacuum pump came on W/O the key on and wouldnt shut off?
It didn't do that with a regular relay?
Help please, what am I doing wrong?
T.C.
Some have a different pin wiring config. (than the standard bosch pin config) even though they will fit into the same socket. You need a different relay or change the wiring.

What I am using it for is to turn my vacuum pump on a off via a Stainless Steel Brakes Vacuum switch.
When the vac. switch see's less than 17" of vac. it switches, completing that circuit to ground.
The vac. circuit completes the coil circuit in the relay witch in turn closes the points in the relay and turns on the vac. pump.

What is the on and off point of the vacuum switch in Hg. If it is close to cruise Hg, the relay may be cycling unnecessarily.

I have been using regular relays but thought this solid state relay would last longer as the regular ones have been going out about every four months.
Yes I have been using quality relays, I think it's just the fact they switch so many times they just wear out?
T.C. A regular relay should last a long, long time. What relays have you been using (brand and part# numbers) You may need one with a resistor or diode.

Thanks again for the reply:
I realize the pin configuration is different, my question is "why" and if different "why" wouldn't they include a pin diagram? (there was none)
Also as I stated in my post the vac. switch comes "on" at 17" of vac. and I have been using quality relays.
If you think about it , how many times do you hit the brake peddle when you are driving?
Every time I do this relay must work, think about stop and go traffic, how many times would this relay have to switch?
Then it has to hold the load of the vac. pump drawing a vacuum to 22-23".
I think that's why they are going bad on me?
Thanks T.C.

http://www.arnnworx.com/relay.gif

It appears like the pinout is the same as a Bosch, however it is polarity sensitive:

http://www.hella.com/produktion/HellaUSA/WebSite/MiscContent/Download/AutoIndustry/Electronics/TIRelais_GB_TT_14.pdf

Look on page 7. Hella only rates the relays at 22 amps.

Thanks for the reply:
They must make more than one because I have seen them advertised at 45 A, the one I bought is advertised at 30A and only has 4 pins.
I realize the 5th pin is just a normally closed pin and would not have any bearing on my situation.
You say its polarity sensitive, could you show or explain a simple circuit for the load side and the coil side? (or how does the polarity sensitive come onto play?)
I know when I plug this into my setup , it comes on as soon as I touch the ground wire, Without the key switched ?
My system works perfect with a Bosh relay?
Thanks again T.C.

Polarity sensitive means that the inputs and outputs must use a particular polarity. Although the specifications are limited, I would surmise from the drawing that Pin 85, designated as ground, would need to be negative with respect to pin 86 for normal operation. I would also assume that pin 30 (V-Bat) would be positive with respect to pin 87 (output).

If it works perfectly with a regular Bosch relay, why are you gnashing your teeth at an SSR? I'd just put a regular relay in and hit the road.

Take a look here:
http://sonolithics.com/files/bosch.pdf

There are more ways to use Bosch relays in this booklet (to do cool stuff) than you'd think possible.

Page 3, top section, column 2 will probably have your answer - "Bosch states that 86 should be the 12V connection and 85 should be the ground since newer relays come with an internal diode."

You say its polarity sensitive, could you show or explain a simple circuit for the load side and the coil side? (or how does the polarity sensitive come onto play?)

Take a look here as well: http://www.4qdtec.com/catch.html
(it's a little techno-speakey, but explains the reasons for an inductive catch diode, and possibly why you're having a high failure rate on your relays.)

Hope this helps!

Thanks for the information, the reason is they don't last the points are wearing out.
These Statements were taken from there web page:

"In solid-state relays, the loads are switched with the aid of semiconductor components,
so electro-mechanical moving parts and contacts are no longer required.
This guarantees extremely quick switching times and wear-free work, which leads
to an almost unlimited service life."


"Hella solid-state relays have standardized housing dimensions and pin bases,
allowing them to be used as an alternative to electro-mechanical relays inside vehicles. "
After reading these two statements I "assumed" (key word) they would be a plug and play deal.
T.C.

After reading these two statements I "assumed" (key word) they would be a plug and play deal.
T.C.

Some Hella relays use a diff pin config.

http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/data/500/ScreenHunter_444.jpg

Thanks for the reply Greg, I will check tomorrow to see if that's the way it's configured?
It only has the 4 pins like your drawing and I know it's not wired like a reg. Bosh relay.
One would think no matter how the part was wired inside the company would put a diagram or directions on the part or in the box.
T.C.

Another thought... If your Hella relay is different from the "conventional" Bosch pin configuration, you could just remove the terminals from the socket, and re-arrange them to the Hella configuration. (Just remember that you're locked into using a Hella relay in that socket ;) )

http://machinedesign.com/Content/Site305/Articles/08_10_2006/SwitchTips0101j_00000032270.jpg

It is called an ISO relay because it uses an International Standards Organization pinout. The standard Bosch relay is also an ISO relay.

This looks like the same Hella Mini ISO relay from another vendor. Note the pinout diagram.

http://www.rallylights.com/hella/Relay_Mini_Solid_State.asp

Thanks for the help guy's, looks like I have some testing to do.
I'm going to setup a test today with a 12V power supply and a 12V bulb.
Maybe I can figure this thing out?
Moving the pins in the socket is a good idea, but then I would have to buy a $40 back up in case it goes out.
Good link's John D, thanks.

T.C.

http://www.industrologic.com/mechrela.gif

If contact life is a problem, put a simple arc suppressor across the contacts of a regular relay. Your pump motor is an inductive load and breaking the contacts causes an arc across the points.

http://www.industrologic.com/mechrela.htm

This guy uses a simple capacitor:

http://www.omgtr.ca/technical/brakelightrelay/brakelightrelay.htm

Cornell Dubilier makes epoxy-coated ones called Quencharcs:

http://www.alliedelec.com/Images/Products/Datasheets/BM/CORNELL_DUBILIER_ELECTRONICS/Cornell-Dubilier-Electronics_Actives-and-Passives_8527500.pdf
http://alpha.octopart.com/Cornell_Dubilier__104M06QC22.pdf

OK, I got nowhere!
I tried every combination I could and cannot make two contacts close two other contacts?
I sure would like to know how they have this thing wired inside?
Would there not be two independent circuits, one for switching and one for the load ?
I'm so confused................................?
T.C.

A man's got to know his limitations. Go back to the Bosch relay and put an arc suppressor on it.

I don't put limitations on myself, if the friggen company would have put a wiring schematic in the flippin box or if I could find one on line, I wouldn't be bothering you guys about this! (I cant imagine them shipping it W/O one)
I was in hopes one of you guy's would be using one of these or would have installed one in some application, I guess not.
I also don't think the "spark" is all of the problem, I would think it's more the heat created by the motor drawing more amps as it pulls the vacuum. (how many times in an hour drive?)
Or maybe a combination of the two ?
I will figure it out, don't get me wrong I do appreciate all you guy's and I thank you for your help,
Until then I will just keep replacing the relays.
Thanks again T.C.

Late to the party...

Note that with a standard relay it matters not which way you wire up the coil. Either side of the coil can go to +12 or ground and everything still works. This presumption is not necessarily true for a solid state switching device.

Likewise for the switched contacts on a regular relay: can go either way. A solid state device: gotta go the right way.

So if you know which two connections are switch control and which two are switch, then you only have 4 possible combinations to make it work :-)

Unless you have let the smoke out by putting it into an illegal connection and then there are NO combinations to make it work.

Thanks for the reply Steve,
That may be what has happened as I thought it was a "plug and play" item to replace a standard relay.
As I stated in my first post when I plugged the SSR in, the pump came on without the key being switched, thus telling me something was wrong.
As I also stated there were no instructions with this part so I had no reason to think it wasn't a plug in replacement.
A relay is a very simple item and if I had a wiring schematic I am sure I would not be having this problem, I have exhausted all the possibilities you have mentioned and can not find a combination that will switch anything.
Not to say I didn't blow it up or maybe it was just bad out of the box?
On the other hand I have not seen smoke nor have I gotten the part hot?
I do know it's going back to Summit unless they can provide me with the knowledge to make it work.
Just so you guy's know I have my head lites (high and low) and my two cooling fans all wired through relays and all work perfect.
In fact so does the vacuum pump, it just goes through relay's to often.
T.C.

Thanks for the reply Steve,
That may be what has happened as I thought it was a "plug and play" item to replace a standard relay.
As I stated in my first post when I plugged the SSR in, the pump came on without the key being switched, thus telling me something was wrong.

The switched side of the circuit was probably powering the pump. Have you checked for power and the fuses?

How about this schematic?

http://www.hella.co.nz/site_resources/library/Products/Catalogue%20PDFs/09acces2.pdf

Look on page 6. It shows the same pinout, but there is no connection to 85. If you ground 86, the relay will energize.

Thanks again for the replies, and the patience.
So 30 and 87 are the load and 86 is the trigger if I am reading it rite?
I will check it out in the morning, looks like a rewiring project to make this work.
I really want to thank you guys for helping me and finding all this information .
T.C.

Before you rewire, make a test setup for the new relay to assure it will operate in that configuration.