Hello

In my off time from working on the chevelle i collect baseball stuff. old cards, gloves, books etc etc. well i posted on a baseball card site a rare 1910 Christy Mathewson E93 card. I stated in the ad the length of the card is short (means in collectors terms trimmed). its not in fine print, or anything, right in the description. a man who has been collecting for many many years and i have done transactions with before. asked me is it short? i stated in the next email it was. he said i will take it anyways. the price was $600. so after 2 weeks he got the card, he said he wanted a refund. i asked why? he stated its short! i told the man who bought it that you had asked me that question and replied to the email that i stated it was short. i can not accept a refund. it was "as described" and cant do so.

then many ppl on the forum said "do the right thing, give him a refund". but i cant do so. i can not return a card for the simple reason he doesnt want it. i had emailed him the email he said "i will take it anyways". then i get a response. "i dont remember sending this". meanwhile, in the next email from that one, he sent his home address to me when i recieve payment. so were all back to square one.

i have stuck to my guns, but need a neutral party to access this situation.

thanks in advance.

Would this cause you to lose future sales ?.. have you offered to buy the card back at perhaps a lower price?


Hello

In my off time from working on the chevelle i collect baseball stuff. old cards, gloves, books etc etc. well i posted on a baseball card site a rare 1910 Christy Mathewson E93 card. I stated in the ad the length of the card is short (means in collectors terms trimmed). its not in fine print, or anything, right in the description. a man who has been collecting for many many years and i have done transactions with before. asked me is it short? i stated in the next email it was. he said i will take it anyways. the price was $600. so after 2 weeks he got the card, he said he wanted a refund. i asked why? he stated its short! i told the man who bought it that you had asked me that question and replied to the email that i stated it was short. i can not accept a refund. it was "as described" and cant do so.

then many ppl on the forum said "do the right thing, give him a refund". but i cant do so. i can not return a card for the simple reason he doesnt want it. i had emailed him the email he said "i will take it anyways". then i get a response. "i dont remember sending this". meanwhile, in the next email from that one, he sent his home address to me when i recieve payment. so were all back to square one.

i have stuck to my guns, but need a neutral party to access this situation.

thanks in advance.

no that was my last baseball card i will be selling ever. i did not offer to buy it back. i have no reason too.

His loss, keep the $

Is there any possibility this man is older and possibily starting to lose his abilities? Maybe he's simply confused?

Ona side note - did he pay via Paypal? If os, can he screw you by filing a claim?

Buyers remorse is a buyers problem. You made the disclaimer, he knew about it....let him work it out with his wife or therapist.

Byfield,
no paypal. it was a International Money Order. i cashed in when i received it then mailed the card out once cleared (like ebay auctions) .

no hes in his 30s, and buys sells cards all the time. full time job etc etc. he just didnt get his way and is crying about it you know....

Byfield,
no paypal. it was a International Money Order. i cashed in when i received it then mailed the card out once cleared (like ebay auctions) .

no hes in his 30s, and buys sells cards all the time. full time job etc etc. he just didnt get his way and is crying about it you know....

Then screw it - his loss. If anyone on that forum calls you out on it, post the email exchange and tell them all to kiss off

I have sold several items, some for over $1800 on Ebay, that the buyers were not happy with.

(1) item, an issue of description on my part as I thought the item was NOS., the other (2), clearly buyer remorse and as described.

In all 3 instances, I accepted the product back for a full refund to include the shipping charges.

Why?

Because $600 isn't worth your honor, and your Good Reputation as a stand-up guy.

I'll never sell my reputation, Conscious, and good name for anything less than an amount I can retire on.

I'd let him out of it. I treat the internet as only a communication devise (or for sale sign) if you will.

Once it's in the buyers hands, and he's unhappy?

Then no Sale in my Book. (maybe not by law) But in my Book.



Just another opinion.

I would 2walk away from it, but print out the e-mails and keep them in a separate e-folder you can access from somewhere. He may try to sue considering the amount. Also print the ad and anything else you had stated or conversed to him about. The best thing you can do is prepare to be sued and hope you aren't. Once in court, it's up to him to prove it isn't what you stated it was.

Again...... is it worth $600 to have to cover your A**"?

Offer him "in-store credit". ;)

I have sold several items, some for over $1800 on Ebay, that the buyers were not happy with.

(1) item, an issue of description on my part as I thought the item was NOS., the other (2), clearly buyer remorse and as described.

In all 3 instances, I accepted the product back for a full refund to include the shipping charges.

Why?

Because $600 isn't worth your honor, and your Good Reputation as a stand-up guy.

I'll never sell my reputation, Conscious, and good name for anything less than an amount I can retire on.

I'd let him out of it. I treat the internet as only a communication devise (or for sale sign) if you will.

Once it's in the buyers hands, and he's unhappy?

Then no Sale in my Book. (maybe not by law) But in my Book.



Just another opinion.

So in order to be a stand up guy and maintain your honor you have to bow down to nitwits and let them out of an agreement, eat the costs, time and then resell the item?

How about FORCING the other party to hold those values? Seems you have them, why not teach an idiot buyer that new exactly what they were buying, had ALL the details, etc up front a lesson in honor and being a stand up guy?

I see this as covering for others failures, ignorance and stupidity....much like welfare. People will be ignorant and do stupid things if you always let them. sometimes folks need a nice slap in the face. Ignorance or stupidity is no cause for a refund and honoring such a request puts you in the "aiding and abetting stupidity and ignorance" camp. They will move on to other things and operate the same way with other sellers.

I agree with Beaux...full disclosure and sold as is....its the buyers problem.

69396SS, That would be like selling a 69' SS 396 clone to a man. He acknowledges that he knows it is a clone and says that is fine and he still wants it. Then when the car arrived he emails you and says "hey, it's a clone ! I want my money back." are you saying you are going to refund the money and take the car back? I mean if the guy is fully informed on what he is purchasing and acknowledges so how is he entitled to and why would you give a refund? Also, how would not giving a refund make one dishonorable or how would that put ones reputation at issue?:confused:

You have no reason to refund his money!! and I would not get yourself all confused with this FACT by asking us or anyone else to give our two cents.. You are honorable and it sounds like you represented the item well. I would send him one email and say, Sorry, but the deal is done. I somehow doubt your reputation or character is depenedent upon an internet web bulletin board., please!!!

Accordong to your description of the sale I would say you are not obligated to refund him. I'm getting tired of the seller getting beat up over a sale when the buyer has second thoughts. You were honest and up front, have the emails to prove it and there for I would say let the sale stand. JMO Pete

So in order to be a stand up guy and maintain your honor you have to bow down to nitwits and let them out of an agreement, eat the costs, time and then resell the item?

How about FORCING the other party to hold those values? Seems you have them, why not teach an idiot buyer that new exactly what they were buying, had ALL the details, etc up front a lesson in honor and being a stand up guy?

I see this as covering for others failures, ignorance and stupidity....much like welfare. People will be ignorant and do stupid things if you always let them. sometimes folks need a nice slap in the face. Ignorance or stupidity is no cause for a refund and honoring such a request puts you in the "aiding and abetting stupidity and ignorance" camp. They will move on to other things and operate the same way with other sellers. Well said Beaux. :thumbsup::beers:

Heck with him; if he found a better item somewhere else it doesn't matter. A deal with full discloser is a deal; it’s final!

He didn't have a problem with the card being "short" but apparently the guy he was going to flip the card for profit too, Did!!!
His mistake, His loss, His card!!!

69396SS, That would be like selling a 69' SS 396 clone to a man. He acknowledges that he knows it is a clone and says that is fine and he still wants it. Then when the car arrived he emails you and says "hey, it's a clone ! I want my money back." are you saying you are going to refund the money and take the car back? I mean if the guy is fully informed on what he is purchasing and acknowledges so how is he entitled to and why would you give a refund? Also, how would not giving a refund make one dishonorable or how would that put ones reputation at issue?:confused:

I see your point and agree with it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not insinuating the seller wouldn't be a stand-up guy by sticking to his guns. It's just what I would do, no right or wrong, the seller's clearly within his rights both legally and morally.

In all honesty though, in the "Clone selling" situation described above, I would offer him full refund minus shipping costs if he wasn't happy with what he recieved.

If I sell something, I stand behind it 100%.

If it's in your hands and your not Happy, it's no Sale.

Sorry guys, it's just me.

thanks for all the posts. i just wanted to see what others thought. i dont own a business i just sell some items in a forum. not like it will break the bank if ppl dont like it.

the one comment i got in that forum was "you should refund his money" , i said excuse me? for some reason the members on the forum think there is a return policy for everything. also they stated i should stand by my product. i just think they do this to cause trouble and pressure for me to reufnd his money.

see many who collect high value cards, majority of them are lawyers, and office men. when they dont like something, i notice they love to complain about it, whine and scream. this is one case.

i'm glad i;m not selling anymore cards, i wipe my hands of card collecting for this reason....

thanks to all of you who believe i did the right thing. i will stand my ground on this :)

send him the emails and add where it says its short-then forget about him(he prob had a sale for it that fell threw

thanks for all the posts. i just wanted to see what others thought. i dont own a business i just sell some items in a forum. not like it will break the bank if ppl dont like it.

the one comment i got in that forum was "you should refund his money" , i said excuse me? for some reason the members on the forum think there is a return policy for everything. also they stated i should stand by my product. i just think they do this to cause trouble and pressure for me to reufnd his money.

see many who collect high value cards, majority of them are lawyers, and office men. when they dont like something, i notice they love to complain about it, whine and scream. this is one case.

i'm glad i;m not selling anymore cards, i wipe my hands of card collecting for this reason....

thanks to all of you who believe i did the right thing. i will stand my ground on this :)


How about posting a link to the other forum. It would be interesting to see how the people involved in the Hobby view the transaction.

It could the buyer was going to flip it and that deal fell throughand he didn't want get stuck with it. If you were honest and upfront in the sale than you have no obligation to refund.

Not too hard with the wonders of the internet.:D

His story certainly is different from yours, and he has the entire posting community and Moderators of this Forum pretty much one sided on this one.

In all honesty this would trouble me a bit being involved in this forum community for 7 years as you are.



http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/thread/1197426547/last-1197493243/N54+Scammer-+Bill+Bellamy+%28volvo947%40sympatico.ca%29




Could any of us honestly hold our Guns on this if it were 'team Chevelle" and Al ?

It's down to Sticking to your guns on a $600 sale or banishment and a community blackball.

i should stand by my product

IMHO, you did

thanks for all the posts. i just wanted to see what others thought. i dont own a business i just sell some items in a forum. not like it will break the bank if ppl dont like it.

the one comment i got in that forum was "you should refund his money" , i said excuse me? for some reason the members on the forum think there is a return policy for everything. also they stated i should stand by my product. i just think they do this to cause trouble and pressure for me to reufnd his money.

see many who collect high value cards, majority of them are lawyers, and office men. when they dont like something, i notice they love to complain about it, whine and scream. this is one case.

i'm glad i;m not selling anymore cards, i wipe my hands of card collecting for this reason....

thanks to all of you who believe i did the right thing. i will stand my ground on this :) I would not loose any sleep over it you did the right thing in my book. But there will always be a few who think otherwise. :beers:

i don't see how you could refund his money, how do you know he's not a scam artist (especially since he claims experience but doesn't notice a huge disclaimer?....and then missed an important e-mail!?) who might be reproducing your card and sending you back a bogus one? (or even the real thing after copying it) ....or even if its a best case scenario and he truly didn't see the disclaimer and really did miss an e-mail pertaining to a 600 dollar pending purchase he was negotiating, you did everything you said you'd do and everything you were supposed to do. it's his fault entirely. forget about it. and if you still feel a need to help out a fellow forumer, point out to him that his biggest mistake was method of payment, theres almost nothing he can do once the cash is in hand ...which brings up another point: even though this wasn't an e-bay deal, it's worth noting that e-bay now banners that one of the biggest red flags alerting a buyer/seller to a scam is wanting payment by or wanting to pay by personal check, cashiers check or money order.

If I understand this correctly, everything is documented in the e-mail correspondence. If he keeps bugging you, just send him a copy of his own e-mail where he said that he will take it anyway. It shouldn't be more difficult than that. IMO, it's a done deal, and it's up to you if you want to take it back or not. No one can force you to do it.

I'm also with Beaux on this one.
You'd get more respect from me to stick to your original plan and consider the sale complete.
And if that nitwit moans so much as a little bit, post your exchange with him on your trade site as an informative reminder that a lesson of honor is needed from time to time - and preface the message as such.
I worked in the returns department of a large outdoor products company and the stories I could tell....it was true what one of the senior ladies there said once - that a sense of shame must be maintained in our society or the world will go to hell in a handbasket.

It sounds like the Buyer's issue is that the photo in the sales Ad was "cropped" not clearly showing the bottom. in the posted questions in the Ad, someone flat out asks you if it was trimmed and you didn't respond directly to the question. The Ad said, it Maybe short. Buyer claims you edited that into the Ad at a later date. Ad was in fact edited, but you claim for a different reason.

In the photo posted by the seller. it is obviously trimmed, even to a novice as myself.

The ' Ad itself, does not clearly specify the card as trimmed.

Nor does the original photo in the sales Ad.


The seller is claiming he was unaware, Based on the feedback from the forum users and moderators, they agree with him. And it appears it could be possible.

You are not legally obligated as the sale can be deemed final.

But what if it's true he didn't know?

It's not because the Ad was clear. it wasn't.

Would you still refuse to take back what the buyer didn't want?

It's a tough call for sure......

You have to admit though, your Ad and the actual photo, does not clearly describe or show the card as trimmed when the card itself, clearly is.

If you read all of the facts carefully, I would rule in favor of the buyer. But only after hearing his side of the story in the posted forum.

There's just enough questionable facts in this case to warrent a refund.


I think all of the facts may be being overlooked.

Again, The Baseball Card Forum thread below.



http://www.network54.com/Forum/153652/thread/1197426547/last-1197493243/N54+Scammer-+Bill+Bellamy+%28volvo947%40sympatico.ca29

And the original for sale Ad.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/376259/thread/1194809773/last-1195185572/E93+Mathewson+%2A%2A%2ASOLD%2A%2A%2A%2A



Devils advocate has to ask, Why not clearly show the trimmed bottom and unquestionably describe it as it is in the sales Ad? (as seen below on the left)

Buyer photo on the right.
.





.

[QUOTE=highlandlake;1605903]I'm also with Beaux on this one.
You'd get more respect from me to stick to your original plan and consider the sale complete.
And if that nitwit moans so much as a little bit, post your exchange with him on your trade site as an informative reminder that a lesson of honor is needed from time to time - and preface the message as such.
QUOTE]

I agree with these gentlemen too. You stated it was short in the ad and in the email. How do you know you will get your card back anyway? There are plenty of people buying stuff on ebay, asking for refunds, and returning copies or damaged similar items to the seller. I've sold thousands of items on ebay and have had people try the same thing on me. I tell them to re-read the description, not my problem if they don't understand what they are reading.

As I read thru this I tended to side with what was said and posted. I wondered why John had his panties in a knot but then I read the baseball forum. It looks like a 50/50 call as to who wins or loses or is right or wrong. Now it becomes a matter of "What is it Worth?"

A good friend of mine once advised me on a land deal we were partners in when dealing with adversity " Lets not worry so much about the battles, let's win the war." As the battle may be won here, but lost on the card site where credibility is at a premium. The issue is not about the $600+ in the sale but the discount to sell the card elsewhere, say $200. It would not be worth it to me to have to leave here for that amount.

My family has been in retailing for 52 years and one thing we have learned is no amount of money will overcome bad word of mouth and no amount can replace good.

As I read thru this I tended to side with what was said and posted. I wondered why John had his panties in a knot but then I read the baseball forum. It looks like a 50/50 call as to who wins or loses or is right or wrong. Now it becomes a matter of "What is it Worth?"

A good friend of mine once advised me on a land deal we were partners in when dealing with adversity " Lets not worry so much about the battles, let's win the war." As the battle may be won here, but lost on the card site where credibility is at a premium. The issue is not about the $600+ in the sale but the discount to sell the card elsewhere, say $200. It would not be worth it to me to have to leave here for that amount.

My family has been in retailing for 52 years and one thing we have learned is no amount of money will overcome bad word of mouth and no amount can replace good.

Very well stated!:thumbsup: I think others like myself were judging with only one side of the story and that is not quite right thing to do.
I guess it is just a matter of ones personal sense or right and wrong in the end.

i have all the emails documenting his questions. one email stats he wants clearer scans (i forgot to put this in the first post), i send them. another then stats is it short, i state yes. he buys the card. i mean how does this fall under my problem? i did everything in my power to help him and answered the questions honestly. the moderators only side with him because there friends and they would say anything to help him out. i sold all my cards because of that forum. they are very opinionated and also very emotional on there = EMO. there story always gets twisted. this forum is very relaxed and fun, i like it better here :D

to answer the question about my post. i dont no how more clearer i could have been really. when poeple request scans in higher res. i send them. i answer all questions honestly. this just loves to drive me nuts lol

i have to agree about another deal he had with this card. it fell through and hes stuck with it. also i really dont no he is a scammer. makes u wonder about this stuff.


thanks to all for your post :)

Is this guy just another buyer and seller that just turns stuff for profit each time? Perhaps he realized he paid too much and is now whining about it?

There is no excuse in not understand what the seller is clearly stating about a product. Especially when he is 100% honest about the details.