The machine shop called me today and after he started to disassemble my engine he found all the middle rings to be broken in pieces. He said with a 11to1 compression ratio that I have and closed chamber heads and high dome pistons that most likely the reason the engine went South was because I was not running aviation fuel and the engine did not like pump gas. It did ping like crazy and with the lifters shot as bad as they were assumed that was the problem. Anyway in order to build a street friendly driver (this is my wife's car) he says I should go with a open chamber head and a flat top piston and get the compression ratio down to about 9.5to1 in order to make so I can turn my wife loose and let her drive it all day every day if she wants. I do not want to be under the hood of this car all the time. I want to be able to have my wife start and drive this car and run pump gas in it. What do you guys think? Can I get a 11to1 engine to run on pump gas and be dependable? If I go to a different head are the heads I have worth anything?????

Thanks in advance for any input :thumbsup:
I appreciate you guys helping a newbe out :hurray:

Your lifters going bad...loved the pics
Dunno why all your middle rings were cracked.

Ben's crate 454 HO has 8.75:1 CR and a decent cam, runs on pump gas.
211/230 deg dur @ .050
Running your existing heads (781?) with some small dome pistons will give you 9:1
Swapping to closed chamber heads and flattops will give you the same 9:1
With even 9:1 you have to run a good-sized stick or you become prone to detonation due to excessive cyl pressure at Low RPMs.

Old engines were high compression and small cams...made TONS of low speed torque but required HIGH Octane fuel.

I plan on something like the old 1970 LS-5 w/ closed chamber heads, 10.25:1 CR and but a cam much larger than the anemic stocker with 214/218 deg dur. I'll run a cam in the 228-248 deg dur range @ .050. If this proves to be too much, swap heads to open chamber, run 9:1

I'm sure some of the other guys will chime in here.....

The advise you got from your machinist sounds right on to me. You can barely get away with 11:1 cr with aftermarket aluminum heads, but why? For the use you are describing 9.5 cr should be great and with iron heads you would still have to run atleast the middle grade fuel and it should respond very well when tuned properly. You might ask him if you can still use your heads and buy a piston with a smaller dome to save some cash. The pinging sound is detonation and is an absolute engine killer, either poor fuel or too much timing, maybe both. I would recommend staying in the 9.5 cr to 10.0 cr range for a good driver/occational strip use car.

My stocker motor runs fine on pump gas and rips out low 12s with ease.:D

Flat top pistons, closed chamber heads, little 280H magnum comp cam, dual plane, and a double pumper and your set. It is fine cruising around, and can lay some serious rubber at will.

To get your piston/head combo to run on pump gas you would have to run a bigg cam to bleed off compression, this would kill the bottom end and not be to street friendly, maybe even have to retard the timing.

What condition are the heads in? stock? how many miles? for rebuiler heads I think you would get about 150$ for them(781 castings right?)

Berg builds 11:1 engine and runs stupid-big cams! And his cars kick butt.
Just not able to run on regular...

The machine shop called me today and after he started to disassemble my engine he found all the middle rings to be broken in pieces. He said with a 11to1 compression ratio that I have and open chamber heads and high dome pistons that most likely the reason the engine went South was because I was not running aviation fuel and the engine did not like pump gas. It did ping like crazy and with the lifters shot as bad as they were assumed that was the problem. Anyway in order to build a street friendly driver (this is my wife's car) he says I should go with a closed chamber head and a flat top piston and get the compression ratio down to about 9.5to1 in order to make so I can turn my wife loose and let her drive it all day every day if she wants. I do not want to be under the hood of this car all the time. I want to be able to have my wife start and drive this car and run pump gas in it. What do you guys think? Can I get a 11to1 engine to run on pump gas and be dependable? If I go to a different head are the heads I have worth anything?????

Thanks in advance for any input :thumbsup:
I appreciate you guys helping a newbe out :hurray:


What pistons and what heads????????? I would have to see what the parts are to know if it is really 11-1.

Ok, I looked through your Photobucket pictures of your engine.

You have closed chamber 1965-66 206 casting heads with 96-97cc chambers, maybe smaller if they have been milled.

The L2465F piston has a 24.3 CC dome and nets you more like 11.5 to 1 compression with the 206 heads.

All the have to do is put a pair of 049 or 781 116CC castings on it and you'll be around 9.8-10.0 comression. Unported these will flow more and make more power than the 206's.

With 11.5 to one it needs to be jetted up or you WILL get some pinging. Jetted right and a high duration cam and you'd be ok,,,,,,barely.

If you change the pistons,,,,,,how much you want for the L2465F pistons????????

Actually every engine compression calculator I have tried comes up with at least 12.5 -1. That's way to much... Open chamber heads and you're fine.

Actually every engine compression calculator I have tried comes up with at least 12.5 -1. That's way to much... Open chamber heads and you're fine.

Darryl, did you notice that he said that the heads are already open chamber?


Nevermind, reread your post. Should have known:sad:. My apologizes :D

Ok, I looked through your Photobucket pictures of your engine.

You have closed chamber 1965-66 206 casting heads with 96-97cc chambers, maybe smaller if they have been milled.

The L2465F piston has a 24.3 CC dome and nets you more like 11.5 to 1 compression with the 206 heads.

All the have to do is put a pair of 049 or 781 116CC castings on it and you'll be around 9.8-10.0 comression. Unported these will flow more and make more power than the 206's.

With 11.5 to one it needs to be jetted up or you WILL get some pinging. Jetted right and a high duration cam and you'd be ok,,,,,,barely.

If you change the pistons,,,,,,how much you want for the L2465F pistons????????


So I could run a pair of 049 or 781 116CC castings with the pistons I have and that would work? Or would I need to swap pistons as well. If I change the pistons you are welcome to the ones I have. I am sure we could work something out :thumbsup:

Darryl do you happen to have a set of heads laying around that will work for me??

What kind of cam would I need to run with setup? I would like to stay with the hydraulic lifters since I not worried about huge RPM and I would like to keep the tuning to a minimum.

Darryl, did you notice that he said that the heads are already open chamber?


Nevermind, reread your post. Should have known:sad:. My apologizes :D

My bad not Darryl's :( sometimes I am not so bright

Hoss,
I'm pretty sure Darryl has some 781 or 049 open chamber cyl heads amid his extensive holdings....
With your existing pistons, you should have around 9.75:1 CR. 781 heads have chambers that vary from 113 and go up to 119cc, so in your case, larger chamber size would be desirable. What did the shop say about your bores and pistons?

OK, you are thinking hyd flat tappet.
With the TKO, 4.11s, the Lunati 60203 for mild and 60204 for wild. The 60205 super wild. But you'd stated the wifey driving it all day every day if she wanted.....throws a wrench into the gearbox.....

Hoss,
I'm pretty sure Darryl has some 781 or 049 open chamber cyl heads amid his extensive holdings....
With your existing pistons, you should have around 9.75:1 CR. 781 heads have chambers that vary from 113 and go up to 119cc, so in your case, larger chamber size would be desirable. What did the shop say about your bores and pistons?

OK, you are thinking hyd flat tappet.
With the TKO, 4.11s, the Lunati 60203 for mild and 60204 for wild. The 60205 super wild. But you'd stated the wifey driving it all day every day if she wanted.....throws a wrench into the gearbox.....


Pistons and bores look good! Since the block is already 060 over I am glad to hear the bores are ok.
As far as the cam goes I would like to go middle of the road. A nice lope and still be easy to start in any weather condition and still have good throttle response. The car is mainly my wifes toy however from now on I will be taking a much more hands on approach to the car. I think if I had been driving the car once in a while I would have noticed the engine problems much sooner. My wife does drive the car like she stole it :thumbsup:
I am leaning towards running new flat tops with the existing heads and getting the CR down to 9.5 to 1

Pump gas and reliability are a must. Easy to drive and tune are benefits as well. I want to feel comfortable letting my wife drive this car all day.

Hoss,
You wanting new flattops will probably make the Bergman feel happy! He's after your old dome pistons! Yes, flattops and your existing heads will certainly work well. Flattops will be affordable. Going Forged pistons or Hyper E?

I have a few BBC cams here but they may be a bit short-winded for a 454 and 4.11 gears for optimal performance on the track. However, with your intended use, wifey driving, with the OD, they would cruise well. Their specs would work with 9.5:1 CR.

Crane 228/228* .544/.544" 112 LSA
Summit 228/238* .540/.540" 114 LSA

Both cams have more nutz than 468Brian's cam and he went very low 12s, think he had something like 223/223* .520/.520 110 LSA (best guess, my memory only)

112 or 114 LSA makes for nice street manners

With your 454, both cams would make around 450 horse and 500 ft lbs gross output, certainly suitable for a grocery getter for the wife. Not such wild grinds as to have valvetrain noise or problems. They should pull like raped apes up to 6000 rpm. See the thread from last week about Desktop Dyno for the graphs. Rough estimate only w/Desktop Dyno. My cams are Hyd flat tappet. Reasonable cost compared to Lunati VooDoo.
I'd bought these cams to counter Ahsom69 Ben's 454HO crate engine. Since he's talking a larger stick, time to liquidate and move up......the replacement should be here any day....

OK, back to remodeling.
PM me if interested.

My cam is 230/230@ 50 .520/.520 lift FYI

My cam is 230/230@ 50 .520/.520 lift FYI

Thanks Brian! I'm doing push-up for getting your cam specs wrong...

Speaking of cams, guess what arrived today? Won't do me any good unless I build the 454 and plant it in the Meeno unless the RatVette is up to the task....
I'm afraid the cam in a 427 would be on the edge of streetable.......hmmmm
(Berg is thinking that is THE place to be)

Yup Hoss, quite a few cool grinds out there for your Wife's Chevelle.....:yes:

I talked to my machine shop guy and I am going to have him install new pistons rather than getting new heads. I am shooting for a 9.5to1 CR when complete and I still have not decided what cam to run. This should make for a much less temperamental engine

Hoss,
Here's a video of Brett's Voodoo 60204 so you get an idea what it sounds like.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5j7uUckIsg8

With your gears and manual trans it would get my vote. :yes:

Hoss,
Here's a video of Brett's Voodoo 60204 so you get an idea what it sounds like.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5j7uUckIsg8

With your gears and manual trans it would get my vote. :yes:


This get's my vote as well. Need to run better valve springs for sure.

My vote too! Plenty mild for the lady.

Hoss,
The new pistons, Forged or Hyper E?

Hoss,
Here's a video of Brett's Voodoo 60204 so you get an idea what it sounds like.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5j7uUckIsg8

With your gears and manual trans it would get my vote. :yes:

This get's my vote as well. Need to run better valve springs for sure.

My vote too! Plenty mild for the lady.


That works for me!! You guys know these engines much better than I do. As far as springs go they are aftermarket but I am not sure what they are. I will look thru the info I do have on the parts installed and see if I can figure out what is in there.

Thanks for the help :thumbsup:

By the way Brett your car sounds great!!!!!!! :hurray:

By the way Brett your car sounds great!!!!!!! :hurray:

Thanks, that video is pretty crappy though. You should hear it in person, lopey idle is awesome with great throttle response. It was running pretty lean in that vid, I think it sounds a little healthier now. This summer I plan to get rid of the flowcrappers though and use 3" pipes. I want a little more mellow deep sound. I think dynamax mufflers might get me that?

I am going to go for the Lunati 60204 cam :thumbsup: Looks like it will be a good choice for the engine.

I think you'll be happy with that cam......very popular grind.....
ensure you tell your machinist so he gets the right springs for you AND ensures you have adequate retainer to valve guide clearance.

I am going to go for the Lunati 60204 cam :thumbsup: Looks like it will be a good choice for the engine.

I think you'll be happy with that cam......very popular grind.....
ensure you tell your machinist so he gets the right springs for you AND ensures you have adequate retainer to valve guide clearance.

Darryl picked out a spring for me but didnt tell me the part number. I know the brand but he will be able to tell you. He chose the same springs for his fathers 454 with the same cam. I think they were pretty innexpensive and I have run the engine to 6k many times now. :hurray:

Darryl picked out a spring for me but didnt tell me the part number. I know the brand but he will be able to tell you. He chose the same springs for his fathers 454 with the same cam. I think they were pretty innexpensive and I have run the engine to 6k many times now. :hurray:


The spring is from Competition products part #2427. Darryl told me to get the same ones for my 204 cam.:thumbsup:
https://www.competitionproducts.com/searchprods.asp

Just type in the # again and it will come up make sure you switch to item # then search.

Thanks for the info :D