As alot of you know Im building my documented owner history M22 69,000 mile LS5 as an LS6. The only thing that wont be LS6 is the 2 bolt block. What will the judges think If I decide to show. Can I compete with a real LS6 or does it matter ???

You would be much better showing your car as a documented M22 69,000 mile LS5. Much harder to find an LS5 car than the LS6:yes: When I see a real deal LS5 they out shine the competition.:yes:

I will say it does not matter.. not in the Chevelle World anyway... think about it?? Where would you show it in the Chevelle arena where that level of judging would exist?? ACES?? Nope.. Regionals... I don't think so.. I could be wrong, but doubt even regional judging within ACES includes looking at Casting numbers and dates... Super Chevy?? JOKE.. not worth your time on any level.... Local yokel car shows.. No, I don't think so....

Yes, I am being a bit sarcastic.. but..it's True... I have been showing cars for over 20 yrs. now and and always Chevelles.. actually always 66 Chevelles.. but I have never had a Judge look at numbers, or even a TRIM TAG for that matter and have it affect the outcome... never. That includes the AACA ( Antique Automobile Club of America ) and many other larger Clubs...

Vette Fest will look at numbers.. but lets get serious.. the amount of shows where this will matter or affect the outcome.. is almost Nil.

BUILD IT with Quality and Correctness as best you can... that wins shows!! :yes:

I have to agree... I have no problems with clones..... I even own one.

But if your going to do a recreation, you better do it right, because there's nothing worse, than a Clone that can be easily identified as a fake.

The SS's with sweep dashes, missing rag joint coupling's etc.

You say the only detail you'll overlook, is the 4 bolt block...........

but on an LS6 Clone, you better have the 291 square port heads and intake, or you'll be busted.... The 6500 RPM tach, or you'll be busted, 4 core radiator, core support, top plate, side post battery and on and on.

Why...... would you take a documented numbers matching 69,000 mile LS5 and subject it to the additional scrutiny of being a fake?

I cloned an LS6 as well so I understand your desire to own a Legend.....

But your selling your numbers matching LS5 short.

If you have to do it I understand, but do it right.... there's more details that differentiate the LS6 than you may think.

The square port heads are a dead giveaway.

I agree with Mike, since N.C.O.A. judging is long gone, I'm betting that nobody will ever know the difference.

I helped tech cars at chevelle-a-bration and all we check for is factory or non. No vin# or cowl tag build sheets or any of that. Which puts you in a stock or modified class. But your peers judge the cars and you better believe LS6 guys will be hard on it. You need to look as original as possible.

I helped tech cars at chevelle-a-bration and all we check for is factory or non. No vin# or cowl tag build sheets or any of that. Which puts you in a stock or modified class. But your peers judge the cars and you better believe LS6 guys will be hard on it. You need to look as original as possible.

BUT, there is no judging at Chevelle~abration.

So basically what you are doing is creating yet another LS6 clone, except instead of taking a basic Malibu and cloning IT, you are using a documented LS5.

Don't be insulted, but that is just not a good idea IMO. Your car is special. Special enough to be restored on its own merit. If you want an LS6 clone, sell the LS5 and buy one.

That said, it is your car so you can do whatever you want to it. But, whatever you do, PLEASE don't paint it red with black stripes :noway:

Yes, lets just remember that the word "JUDGING" in this sense, as I see it.. is not Participant Judging.. when I think of Judging.. I think of a team of atleast 3 Judges that looks/inspects a car for the criteria at hand, whatever that criteria is predetermined to be... and not a bunch of people who walk around and do quickie looks for what they consider to be Correct or NICE.. and even if you consider the participant judging at ACES.. yes, you may get a few diehards that will scrutinize an LS-6 before they give it their VOTE.. but in a pool of 450 votes... that small bunch scrutinizing will not affect the final outcome.. even myself.. when I participant vote at a show.. even when looking at the stock 66 class., I do not look at the small details or trim tag, deck stamp, etc.. I only do that if two cars are so close to each other in quality that I might need to.. more often than not.. a row of STOCK 66's maybe 10 to 15 cars.... 4 or 5 of which are TRULY Stock.. and of that group.. always one, maybe two that are winners on just a glance.. no need to scrutinize... the 70's are normally of a better quality, but not much changes boys.. anal details are for yourself.. not for judges, least not in the Chevelle arena.

So basically what you are doing is creating yet another LS6 clone, except instead of taking a basic Malibu and cloning IT, you are using a documented LS5.

Don't be insulted, but that is just not a good idea IMO. Your car is special. Special enough to be restored on its own merit. If you want an LS6 clone, sell the LS5 and buy one.

That said, it is your car so you can do whatever you want to it. But, whatever you do, PLEASE don't paint it red with black stripes :noway:

I agree with this.....why ruin a nice LS5 car?


HEY, My car is Red w/blk stripes!:mad:
i know Andy;)

As alot of you know Im building my documented owner history M22 69,000 mile LS5 as an LS6. The only thing that wont be LS6 is the 2 bolt block. What will the judges think If I decide to show. Can I compete with a real LS6 or does it matter ???


Most people are infatuated with the LS6 because of the motor. If you are not going to build an actual LS6, I don't really understand why you would want to do this. Altering a factory LS5 M22 car to build an incorrect LS6 makes even less sense to me. I think you have a very awsome car that deserves to be celebrated for what it is.

Most people are infatuated with the LS6 because of the motor. If you are not going to build an actual LS6, I don't really understand why you would want to do this. Altering a factory LS5 M22 car to build an incorrect LS6 makes even less sense to me. I think you have a very awsome car that deserves to be celebrated for what it is.

exactly. BUT, I had a thought. Nothing says you can't build the motor for a few extra HP :)

Nothing on mine is LS-6 and I like it that way.I'm proud of mine for what it is and what it does.Besides if I had an LS-6 I'd be afraid to drive it 3or4 thousand miles a year like I do now,with the crazy values.

Here I did a page to document the build. I have along ways too go. http://s212.photobucket.com/albums/cc240/wax-um/?action=view&current=23_4.jpg
Remember, Im only changing a few parts not entire car. I will save original parts if I have them to put it back too LS5 if needed.

Wax Um

Could we all bother you to please fill out your profile?? You posted a question, got a bunch of fedback rather quickly.. and it would be nice to know who we are giving advice to, where you are, etc..:yes:

Appreciate it!
Mike

Sure, If I can figure out how too. Im 38 yrs old and Located in Yukon Oklahoma.

Mike, can you tell me how to do my profile ???

Got it. check it to see if it works.

Thanks.. Welcome aboard!!!

I agree with Mike, since N.C.O.A. judging is long gone, I'm betting that nobody will ever know the difference

James Hinshaw told me the same thing but I want to prepare for real judging to happen again.
Plus its a fun challange. "Not sure I will do this again"

exactly. BUT, I had a thought. Nothing says you can't build the motor for a few extra HP :)

I agree completely. But I would show it as an LS5 M22 car. This car hits home runs with out pretending to be something it's not. I would love to have a 1970 LS5 M22 car. I actually know of one here in Stmaford, CT. An older guy owns it. He also ordered it in the summer of 1969. Black on black, LS5, M22, Cowl Induction, buckets and console. I would love to have it, and would have a care in the world for an LS6 if I had it. To each there own I guess.

I helped tech cars at chevelle-a-bration and all we check for is factory or non. No vin# or cowl tag build sheets or any of that. Which puts you in a stock or modified class. But your peers judge the cars and you better believe LS6 guys will be hard on it. You need to look as original as possible.

And I was totally amazed at the cars that were allowed in the stock class! Not that it matters because the people are going to vote what ever way they want but in my opinion half the cars had no business in the stock classes.


Rocky

Buddy of mine has an LS5 bench seat 4 speed car.....trying to talk him out of selling it!

Buddy of mine has an LS5 bench seat 4 speed car.....trying to talk him out of selling it!

Is he looking at another car or getting out of the hobby? He'll likely regret it, like most of us do:yes:

Mine is for sale too as soon as someone shows me an LS6 that I can afford. Ha Ha

I've read through the original post and replies here, and here is my take on this subject. First of all, I agree 100% with Mike Crown on everything he has stated. One thing I would like to add in is that, who do you think is actually qualified to judge a car in such a manner. In reality, no one is. I can say this for the simple reason that I am the lead judge for the 1970 Original Restored Chevelles at the only ACES Regional that does semi in-depth point judging. I do not look at block casting numbers or cylinder head casting numbers for obvious reasons. I do, however, have a fairly good working knowledge of the 1970 cars
No one except a handful of people, and I seriously mean a handful, will be able to differentiate between the fact that it IS a real LS5 or a cloned LS6. Just a personal opinion here, but you are ruining a documented car that is rarer than an LS6. Yes, there were LESS LS5 cars than LS6 cars built.

Also the thing with these investments is that if all of our hard work, dedication, obsession and toil is finally hammered down to a dollar figure because we are someday forced or obligated to sell, it would be nice to have your efforts realized by either recouping your money, or seeing profit.

Sure, many if not most of us are not in this hobby for the money, but neither are most of us willing to throw it out the window.

The individuals who respect and admire the fact that your car is an original numbers matching LS5, will be deducting every modification other than original, from the value of the car.

Whether that entails the need to tear apart the dash to replace the incorrect 6500 RPM tach, restore the top end back to LS5, rebuild the correct heads etc, there will still be deductions from that of an all original, numbers matching LS5.

I realize you've been beaten down on this enough, and ultimately, the desicion is yours and yours alone.......

But your getting opinions from what seems to me, do be a highly repsectable, knowledgable portion of this hobby.

We may only be looking at $4000 total in your variation from stock original LS5 which may seem frivilous and far from ruining the car.

But a numbers matching LS5 70SS Chevelle holds far more respect in my eyes than an LS6 Clone.

Numbers matching or not, when you put that 450HP decal on your air cleaner, you have technically transformed your car into a Clone.

Taking a numbers matching Icon of the Muscle car era and willingly making it a clone makes very little sense to me.

Clones are everywhere and i could walk 15 feet from my laptop to touch one.

I can not honestly tell you however, where a numbers matching LS5 is within my city limits.

Why take a legend, throw a sheep suit on it, and throw it into the flock?

That car deserves better than that after surviving intact, all of these years .:thumbsup:

You guys are making me do a double take. Its not too late. Maybe we should do a poll. We can call it project Team Chevelle. Let the members decide.

Why Not ???

.<snip>
.................the only ACES Regional that does semi in-depth point judging........................<snip>

We do it too Tom, at the ACES - Mid America Regionals.
The only thing is, we don't have enough qualified judges to be able to judge very many cars in the time frame allowed so we limit the number of entries on a first come first served basis.

Thanks for the correction Dean, I wasn't aware of that. We, in Maryland face the same problem, lack of knowledgeable people which in turn causes those of us that do know what we are looking at to double up on certain classes and it makes things hectic and sometimes unenjoyable.

BUILD IT with Quality and Correctness as best you can... that wins shows!! :yes:

Hah! Only if you paint it red. :sad:

Mine isn't RED and has been known to win a show here and there :disco: