Let's take the following example:

9.5:1 327
Pocket ported Iron 64 cc heads
Dual Plane Intake
Small Tube headers

Let's say we are looking at a cam with 270 deg @ 0.004, 215 deg @ 0.050" on both intake and exhaust lobes, and a LSA of 112 deg. Let's also assume we put the intake lobe on a 106 ICL.

Now, my queation is, without changing the ICL what happens when we tighten the LSA from 112 to 108? Since the intake is in the same place, we are not changing DCR. Tightening the LSA will provide later exhaust opening and closing points, right?

What happens to the torque peak? Does it shift up or down the RPM range? What about HP peak? I am assuming that the tight LSA cam will provide more midrange, and "fall off" quicker up top, but does the basic RPM range of the cam change, or does the "band" just become a bit narrower?

What do the experts have to say about this? smile.gif

Would get less rump thats for sure.

Actually, it would lope more on a tighter LCA. I am not interested in idle quality, rather, I am trying to get a better handle on the effects of a delayed exhaust opening / closing, and the effects it has on the powerband.

Delayed exhaust events will move the powerband down in rpm. Since the gases have mass and therefore inertia, it takes a certain amount of time to stop and start. With the events advanced, the gases get a head start, and have sufficient time at high rpm to get going, improving high rpm power. So I'm assuming the reverse is true with the delayed events.

The exh valve opening later will allow the expanding gases to push down on the piston some more, but the difference is only slight cuz the cyl pressure has dropped way off once the piston gets away from TDC.

The exhaust valve events occur before the intake events; so increasing the lobe separation opens the exhaust earlier, not later.

Increasing the LSA favors idle quality, by lowering the cyl pressure at the moment that the intake valve opens, which is why it's used in computer-controlled situations. It reduces low-end and mid-range torque ("mid-range" usually being the range in which peak torque occurs), by allowing the last few percent of usable energy to escape by opening the exhaust valve before all the work is extracted. It improves higher RPM torque, for the inertia reason; it allows more time for exhaust gases to escape, and the improved cyl fill offsets the torque loss from the early opening.

The net-net effect is better idle quality, reduced peak torque, and the whole torque band being flattened and pushed upwards. It's not necessarily a real huge effect; but is quite measurable with almost any cam. The "bigger" the cam, the more effect it will have on idle.

I hate to bring up magazine articles but this one is somewhat intresting in that it pertains to this topic.

Joe Sherman did some dyno pulls with 3 Isky circle track solid cams... All three were the exact same lobes but different LSA's.All three cams were ground straight up meaning that the intake and exhaust centerlines and the LSA were all the same.All three cams were degreed 3 deg advanced.This was a modest 357 in 10.8 SCR circle track SBC, Super Vic intake , 950 HP carb with 2 in spacer and 45 deg total timing.

Intake lift.... .580
Exhaust lift... .585
Adv dur intake...290 deg
Adv dur exhaust..294 deg
Int Dur @ .050...262 deg
Exh Dur @ .050...266 deg
lash .014/.016
Cams were ground on 106 , 108 and 110 LSA's

Timing on the 106 LSA @.050 = 28-54 /62-24
Timing on the 108 LSA @.050 = 26-56 /64-22
Timing on the 110 LSA @.050 = 24-58 /66-20

Cranking compression with 106 LSA = 180 PSI
Cranking Compression with 108 LSA = 165 PSI
Cranking Compression with 110 LSA = 155 PSI

The power figures listed were just the peak numbers but still it's intresting.

106 LSA = 580.2 HP @ 6500 / 503.9 FT LBS @ 5500
108 LSA = 578.4 HP @ 7000 / 489.3 FT LBS @ 5500
110 LSA = 583.6 HP @ 7000 / 479.3 FT LBS @ 5500

Average through 7000 RPM

106 LSA = 525.5 HP / 476.1 FT LBS
108 LSA = 514.2 HP / 462.8 FT LBS
110 LSA = 506.0 HP / 452.4 FT LBS

HG @ idle
106 LSA = 4 in HG @ 1200 RPM idle
108 LSA = 5 in HG @ 1200 RPM idle
110 LSA = 6 in hg @ 1150 RPM idle.

At the peak numbers the 110 LSA required 500 more RPM to produce 3.4 MORE HP and 24.6 FT LBS LES TORQUE vs the 106 LSA.

At the Average numbers the 110 LSA lost 19.5 HP and 23.7 FT LBS of Torque vs the 106 LSA.

Now these were not cams that are at all suitable for street use but it's still a usefull test.

I have another article somewhere with a smaller street HYD cam with the same thing with different LSA 108,110 and 112 with pretty much the same results with the tigher LSA beating the wide LSA 's for overall usefullness of power.

But every combo IS DIFFERENT so your results may vary .

Here's a thought.... When does the intake port really begin to move some air ? It's after the Exhaust valve has closed.If one opens the intake sooner with a tighter LSA or by advanceing the cam you will have a higher intake lift @ TDC and of course a higher lift @ the point the Exhaust valve closes...
There by exposeing more valve opening to the decending piston .... if the coloum of air is stronger and can maintain more momentum or ram effect in the say 60 deg ATDC through to BDC where things are starting to slow the rate of filling then the engine should be packing more air and making more power..... Perhaps when you get into the longer strokes say 3.750 and longer in a SBC and 4.250 and longer in a BBC the wider LSA start to really help ?

Any thoughts ?

1. The dynamic compression ratio stays exactly the same because the intake timing events are not changing. Cranking cylinder pressure will not change.

2. The overlap changes from 46 to 54 degrees. This causes the engine to increase scavenging in a narrow RPM band which in turn should increase peak torque. However the tighter LSA will also make the engine peakier so while it makes more peak TQ it will idle rougher and make less low end TQ. The top end will also fall off faster after peak HP.

3. The EVO and EVC events will be later with the tighter LSA cam. EVC mainly effects overlap (explained above) but EVO being later may allow more complete usage of pressure created during the burn. The downside is that if the exhaust port is poor a later EVO may create pumping losses.

Typically cams are ground with 4* advance in them. When you buy a cam cut on a 112* LSA the ICL will be at 108* -- when you buy a cam cut on a 108* LSA the ICL will be 104* if you install it "dot to dot." Because of this, the scenario you mention is unlikely unless you degree the cam and set them up on the ICL you want. Typically the tighter LSA cam with the standard 4* advance will create more cylinder pressure than the wider LSA cam.

heres a thought all engines differ and the affect on seperation , overlap , duration and lift , cumbustion chamber and pistondomes or dishes , intake and carbs along with transes rears and weight of cars and with the technolagy today if we are that worried about these aspects in our cars we make phone calls to cam makers and have them suggest one of there out of the box cam or spend the real money and get one custom ground to work with all the above mentioned items . just my 2 cents

69,

Were the cams ground straight up or were they all installed on say 106??

B/c that enter's into it too..

I played with a little bitty solid cam using D2k for my 9.75 to 1 CR., 283 and came up with a max torque grunt cam like 250/210, 104/108, .440" lift!! But several said the little motor really wouldn't like it?? Go figure..

pdq67

Pdq...

Cams were ground straight up with LSA... so 108 LSA had 108/108 CL's, 106 LSA had 106/106 CL's and 110 LSA had 110/110 CL's.... All three were degreed 3 ahead.... IE 106 LSA in on a 103 , 108 LSA in on a 105 and 110 LSA in on a 107 .

Did they say why the max grunt 283 wouldnt like that cam ? Chevy's 1st hyd cam was .334 valve lift and 174 @ .050 used from 1956-mid 1958.To me thats too small but something like you have there would be great with a 3.31 gear ... you wouldnt need the normal drag race gearing that 283's are normally assoiciated with.... I dont think it would be still makeing power @ 6500 but to 5000 or so it would be just about perfect.Crane has a couple of their really little (late model computor controlled cars ) cams ground on a 104 LSA and one on a 109 LSA...

A 250 deg cam just isnt long enough to make a 106 LSA idle like a 30-30 Duntov...just aint going to happen.

I have an old mag. somewhere with an article in it that Ron Isky helped write and they used a 100, a 110 and a 120 if not mistaken? Or something off beat like it.. (Maybe a 100, 108 and 116??)...


Anyway, the 100 made more torque then the others and Ron came right out and said it was not for sale b/c it was not a good cam for regular motors..

And the cams did show the classic high early torque vs higher hp as always talked about real pronounced..

(Close LCA's = tight, shorter, lower on each end and higher peak torque curve whereas wide LCA's = higher on each end, but lower peak torque curve and wider overall).

Kinda like this;
-
- - --------
-- -- ---- ----
--- --- vs sorta deal if it posts OK??

pdq67

He, He!! That didn't work.......

pdq67

Originally posted by 69LS1:
Here's a thought.... When does the intake port really begin to move some air ? It's after the Exhaust valve has closed.If one opens the intake sooner with a tighter LSA or by advanceing the cam you will have a higher intake lift @ TDC and of course a higher lift @ the point the Exhaust valve closes...
There by exposeing more valve opening to the decending piston .... if the coloum of air is stronger and can maintain more momentum or ram effect in the say 60 deg ATDC through to BDC where things are starting to slow the rate of filling then the engine should be packing more air and making more power..... Perhaps when you get into the longer strokes say 3.750 and longer in a SBC and 4.250 and longer in a BBC the wider LSA start to really help ?

Any thoughts ? =
Hi Al,
Thoughts,,,,,,,, crap,,, thoughts hurt my head,,,, :(

I guess the answer is,,, it depends,,,

When air starts flowing is hopefully when the intake valve opens but it is dependant on a number of things,, here's a few.

Hopefully Harold will drop in & add his wisdom.

How big is the cylinder in cu in in relation to the intake port.

How much overlap & at what rpm.

Where the exhaust is tuned to, is it "pulling" on the cylinder or is it at a point that is causing reversion or restrictive & causing backpressure in which case the intake valve may still be flowing but in the wrong direction :(

Is the valve job done to inhibit reversion & promote more cylinder filling & less scavenging of the incoming charge?
IE: intake margin chamber side square or cut at a slight angle, exhaust valve margin rounded on chamber side.

Intake at the same height or preferably higher than exhaust in chamber?

It doesn't do a lot of good for power if you are pushing the fresh charge out the exhaust instead of using it to fill the chamber.
As for where the valve is, you want enough lift to support what the cylinder wants as soon as possible & definitely want it open enough by 70-75 degrees ATC depending on rod length so it is a non issue & the flow is completely dependant on the port, intakde etc, from this point on.

Just a few rambling thoughts to confuse the issue ;)

Thanks Mike,

I knew it was a wide open question subject to a zillion different ways of interpreting it...

Somewhere around here I have a pic of a time pressure trace on a occliscope <sp> showing the valve opening , the lift cycle , closeing all in one graphical motion....

When the intake first starts to open there is indeed a small reversion spike...shown as a positive spike above a centerline on the graph... then a long negitive V shaped line as the cyl fills and starts to slow it's rate of fill , and then the closeing cycle and then at the close a very large reversion spike back into positive territory with an amplitude easily double that of the opening reversion spike... The piston really pushing reversion back into the intake port at the close vs the low piston velocity and small volume near TDC when the intake opens.

Ya know for some reason there is still someting I just dont understand about scavanging and actually pulling air through the intake during overlap....
I have read a ton of material on this subject and I still cant come up with a good view as to whether it really happens or not.... I can see it only during a very small RPM range at WOT if you can manage to get atmospheric pressure in the intake with a vac in the exh.... But at WOT does an exh system ever see no back pressure and is that really enough to allow a signal to actually pull A/F through the intake valve , past the piston , around the exhaust valve and out the pipe
..... or with a superior exhaust system are you just managing back pressure better and not really scavanging ?

I know people say that a long overlap cam causes the stinky gassy idle so often encountered because the exh is pulling A/F through and out the exh system.....I dont know.... Seems that at a normal idle speed with the throttle closed there is very little air entering the cyl and not enough mass of exhaust to actually cause a vacuum strong enough to cause a pull through.... I can see where during overlap at an idle the A/F coming out of suspension and large droplets of fuel not being consumed and then being pushed out the exhaust causing the foul gas smell.

Mike you said above about the intake at the same height or preferably higher than the exhasut in chamber ? Are you refering to lift at TDC of the two valves ? Or something else like seats sitting at different heights ?? I think I missed something there ?

Here is my simplistic understanding regarding at least part of the overlap triangle ;)

Where the hell is Harold when you need him :D

At idle & low speeds a cam with a lot of overlap is going to have more cylinder pressure than the intake or exhaust is going to have so you are going to have reversion.
When you get "on the cam" & there is sufficient flow out the exhaust, without backpressure & assuming the exhaust is tuned properly for the rpm you are running the velocity of exhaust is going to cause a for lack of a better description a high pressure wave that leaves a low pressure area behind it & will leave the cylinder below atmospheric even as the piston is still traveling upwards & this is what the intake air pressure is going to see.

Sorry for the confusion on the valve height,
I wasn't referring to lift but the actual valve seats.
If the intake is slightly higher than the exhaust & the valves are shaped properly it will tend to inhibit reversion or back flow into the intake during overlap.
The shapes that seem to work the best are an exhaust valve that has a radius on the chamber side of the valve & an intake valve that has a slight camphor or angle cut into the margin on the chamber side.

Thanks Mike,

Now I see what you mean with reference to the valves. Bill Jenkins used to modify certin areas of piston domes to help stop reversion during overlap and GM / TRW used to use the long single trench type valve refief in the 302 and also on one # flat top 350 piston... to " help Promote " flow during overlap as the trench offered less resistance that 2 valve reliefs did...so why not the valves... At least they have a more direct commumication than the reliefs do.

The worst reversion I have ever seen was on the intake manifold of two different circle track 351 Cleveland engines...both had single plane intakes
and both had the hard baked on exhaust deposits in the plenum and runners.... my guess is lifting in the turns and momentarly creating intake manifold vacuum pulling Ex into it and then back hard WOT.... These were unmodified ports (rules) and the Ford Exh ports arent known for being all that great to begin with.... this type of reversion is nasty.

I wish someone had some clear cylinder heads so we could watch these things happen... I know reversion does happen in both intake opening and closeing and if too high a pressure in the Ex system if the exh valve is open late perhaps some air being pulled back in from the exh by the pistons movement downward... I have seen the pressure trace and exh deposits in the intakes...
I understand the theory on the exh crossover / scavenging but somehow something is still preventing me from buying the idea for more than a brief RPM range.... I'll figure it out someday.

Speaking of clear cylinder heads, I was doing a search a couple years ago and found an article about a guy who did that... he took a Ford Flathead V8 and built a pair of cylinder heads out of pure quartz.... no water jackets but he didnt need them.... Fired up the engine and used slow motion film to capture actual images of flame travel.... The images were easily clear enough to see what was going on.... neat stuff.I wish I had book marked it... graemlins/clonk.gif .... I would love to actually see " scavegeing " take place. :D

I edited my post slightly so it makes more sense I hope in regards to the "exhaust wave" ;)
Have you seen Joe's wet flow bench yet? Really an eye opener!!
If not he will have it at PRI I am sure,, you are going right??

Thanks Mike... I like the way you wrote that ..very easy to comprehend...

I'm afraid I havent been to PRI since it was in Santa Clara... We do get to SEMA every year tho.The vast majority of the people we ned to see will be at SEMA and PRI both so just to see the few others ... well Gary doesnt want to pay for it. By far the most FUN show was PRI but for me SEMA is MAJOR WORK ! But I would love to see Joe's Bench ... that would be cool...

The end of quarter is near , PWA Confrences in a couple weeks , I have to fly to Asia ... 16 hour flight sounds like fun.... Then SEMA .... The Hollidays.... Gonna be busy.... graemlins/clonk.gif I hate this time of year... tongue.gif

Speaking of scavanging....

It's been a number of years ( the 1980's ) since I was involved with any Dyno work... either as an observer or partisipant. I had been involved in a little over 200 pulls on 4 different engine dyno's and none of them at that time had something like this...

Is there or has anyone come up with a way of measureing pressure / vacuum in both directions inside a header or exh port ? I know it must have been done before ... or at least Jere Stahl said it had but I think he said it was done in England... I think I understand the theory but if this high pressure wave leaves a low pressure wave behind it , then that should be something that is detectable or measurable ??

I was listening in on a conversation some time ago and Jere saying that at a low RPM just off idle these guys in England managed to measure an actual small amount of neg pressure in the pipe but at higher RPM there was
between 1.01 and 1.3 ( I think thats what he said ) atmospheres of pressure inside the pipe...measured in different locations with no neg pressures....

I dont know how old the info is or if it's still vaild today or what but was wondering if anyone has messed around with testing this ... especially with the last 10 years or so of header developement thats been going on ?

I was away for the weekend, so I am just getting around to reading this. Good discussion! smile.gif

Regarding reversion: Has anyone read the article on Isky's site? They have a tech article claiming that most reversion actually occurs on the piston upstroke, before IVC, assuming an unrestricted exhaust. If I recall, they reasoned that the piston was already near TDC during overlap, so most of the exhaust has already left the cylinder. Thoughts? :confused:

Also, I understand that the later EVO allows more "push time" on the piston during the power stroke, and this can (in theory) provide more midrange torque. If Isky is right, and the exhaust is already out of the cylinder near TDC (again, assuming an efficient exhaust), what if we were to leave EVO in the same place, and cut down exhaust duration to minimize overlap (improving idle quality) and make killer midrange and low end. I guess I am talking about a "reverse split pattern" cam, with more intake duration than exhaust, ground on a tight LCA.

I suppose the poor exhaust port on a typical SBC would not allow this approach to really work well in the real world. I'm just kind of thinking aloud as I type. If it worked, I'm sure it would be a more common approach! smile.gif

Here is an excerpt from the Isky tech article:

Reversion, carburetor/Injector "stand-off" or the general effect of the backing up of the intake Fuel/Air charge normally associated with longer duration high-performance camshafts is actually caused by a Later Intake Closing! How do we know this to be true? The answer lies in the basic principles of physics. For as with geometry and trigonometry, these sacred truths do not change simply because someone chooses to ignore them in an attempt to garner a reputation.

Specifically, when the intake valve opens some 40 or more degrees before T.D.C. at the end of the exhaust stroke, very little (virtually no) exhaust gases remain in the cylinder. The piston is in the vicinity of T.D.C. (only .425" down the hole @40o BTDC - on a typical 350" Chevy with 5.700" rods) and no appreciable threat is posed to the forthcoming intake charge. The "False Reversion Hypothesis" taken to an extreme would lead one to the equally false conclusion that any overlapping of the intake and exhaust valves is totally undesirable.http://www.iskycams.com/techtips.php

As far as a reverse dual pattern , yes that has been done before but it requires a very good exh port to do it.

In the occiliscope pic I have of the time /pressure trace it does show a small reversion spike when the intake opened , and it shows a large reversion spike when it closes. Just like achiving 100% thermal effiency hasnt happened yet achiving 100 % cleansing of the cylinder and chamber I doubt has happened either.There just seems to be some amount of residules or pressure left however small.

One thing about reversion ( both opening and closing ..especially closeing w/long cams ) is what it does in the intake manifold...especially a single plane but bad for a dual plane also.As the engine rotates throughout it's various cycles at any given RPM you have these reversion pulses blasting air back and forth in a combo of intake manifold vac , atmospheric pressure , compression pressure (late in closeing ) and in opening rev and through all this mess the A/F has to find it's way to the cylinder.... It's not smoooth sailing or a fairly straight shot from carb to intake port
.. it's headed twords the cyl head then gets blasted backward , then recovers and go back twords the intake port then the intake closes and the A/F that didnt make it in may be drawn back twords the plenum by reflection or vac or another pulse... the occilscope shows that also.. there is all kinds of drama going on.... And thats normal....

Al, i could be wrong, but i believe that pressure wave can be tuned with the length of the intake runner, to a specific RPM range (A tight rpm range) so that it will actually turn around at the port entrance and become a postive pressure wave. If the lenght of the runner is effectively tuned to the timing of this pressure wave it will help fill the cylinder on its return route.

My thought is that the velocity in the intake runner at a given point has an effect on the reversion wave.

Brian,

" My thought is that the velocity in the intake runner at a given point has an effect on the reversion wave> "

In my mind I have to agree completely that it's all a totally dynamic process and just like cams , maniolds , headers , carbs ect all work best in a given RPM ... I would have to think that reversion is most disruptive in a given range also.

When I was talking about scavanging earlier... maybe it's best to define that in the terms I was thinking.... Perhaps I should say crossover where this negitive pressure helps clense the cyl and actually pull A/F past the intake valve and out the exhaust valve.....It just seems to me that that could only happen over a narrow RPM range and not throughout idle to max RPM. I of course could very well be wrong on that.... But in such a dynamic device such as an internal combustion engine the various forces going on is almost incredable to say the least.I think it would be on thing is you had an engine operating only at one RPM like some stationary engines... but being dynamic under all kinds of different loads from idle to max rpm ...that throws all kinds of curves to the equation.

That pressure spike you saw after BDC on the plots... was that actually reversion (charge being pushed back out), or just a pressure spike from the valve slamming shut, causing the incoming air to suddernly stop (thus creating a pressure spike)?

It just seems to me that that could only happen over a narrow RPM range and not throughout idle to max RPM.I agree... I think that is why stock TPI engines have high midrange torque... the runners are tuned to take advantage of the pressure waves. They are pretty much dead up high though, as the long runner length hurts flow (pipe losses). Same thing happens with header primary lengths (I think). Runner length tuning seems to only work in a very narrow band, and I'd guess it also only works if valve events are timed just right to take maximum advantage of the natural frequency of the pipe length.

Been a long time since I had a fluid mechanics course, so I may not be saying this right...

Looking at the amplitue of on the closeing of nearly double that of the opening and that in the admitting small trace that was the highest amplitude shown it would seem that the force was greater than what I would think could be generated from just closeing the valve.


..................REV.......................
-------------------*---------------------------
-----REV----------*-*---------------------------
------*----------*---*-*---*---------------------
IO>>*--*-------*<IC---*--*--*--C/L of sine wave--
--------*-----*----------------------------------
---------*---*-----------------------------------
----------*-*------------------------------------
-----------*-------------------------------------
...........^.........
......^ Filling ^....
.......cylinder ^.....

Sorry for the impromptu graph above as it is obviously not to scale but you get the general idea.. above the line would be press and below negitive press in the port as the cyl fills , slows it's rate of fill and valve closes ect .

Originally posted by novadude:
I was away for the weekend, so I am just getting around to reading this. Good discussion! smile.gif

Regarding reversion: Has anyone read the article on Isky's site? They have a tech article claiming that most reversion actually occurs on the piston upstroke, before IVC, assuming an unrestricted exhaust. If I recall, they reasoned that the piston was already near TDC during overlap, so most of the exhaust has already left the cylinder. Thoughts? :confused:

Also, I understand that the later EVO allows more "push time" on the piston during the power stroke, and this can (in theory) provide more midrange torque. If Isky is right, and the exhaust is already out of the cylinder near TDC (again, assuming an efficient exhaust), what if we were to leave EVO in the same place, and cut down exhaust duration to minimize overlap (improving idle quality) and make killer midrange and low end. I guess I am talking about a "reverse split pattern" cam, with more intake duration than exhaust, ground on a tight LCA.

I suppose the poor exhaust port on a typical SBC would not allow this approach to really work well in the real world. I'm just kind of thinking aloud as I type. If it worked, I'm sure it would be a more common approach! smile.gif =
Actually, the "reverse pattern" cam works pretty well on some restricted engines where you can't fill the cylinder adequately above around 4000-4500 RPM.
On the reversion, I believe what Isky is talking about is the reversion you will see in injected or multi carbureted deals like 6 2bbls which were quite popular years ago. You would actually see a "fog" of fuel above the injectors or carbs at certain rpm's
I ran 6 Stromberg 97's years ago on a 55 chev that was street driven (no it didn't work worth a crap) & it would wet the windshield under certain circumstances.
This is real bad reversion & is caused by the length of the intake tract & when the intake valve closes when things are wrong.
You also get a lot of reversion here before you get the engine up "on the cam" & don't have the velocity in the intake to overcome the pressure in the cylinder

But there is also reversion on overlap at idle & low speeds with a cam with any substantial overlap.
I think you are going to have reversion any time the intake valve is open & the cylinder pressure is higher than the port pressure whatever the reason.

As has been eluded to in above posts, the runner length can have a dramatic effect on how or where the engine runs efficiently just as the exhaust does.

This is where the higher end computer simulation programs like Dynomation & Engine Expert shine but you have to know a lot of real information like exact seat to seat timing at the valve, runner lengths from the valve to the plenum or injector stack end, taper of the runners, size of the runners, exhaust lengths & sizes from the valve to the end of the pipe, length of the collector to where it dumps into whatever ends it's tuning,, the list goes on.
I am not referring to Desk Top Dyno here but some of the real programs & they are not cheap ;)

Still waiting for the "cam master" to drop in with his thoughts on all this, I have no doubt he could write volumes on this subject.

I know you are out there somewhere Harold :D

Hey Mike,

I cant remember for sure but I think it was the 2nd time Amos set the record at Bonniville in his old 53 Stude C/GC car, he was running I "think" 4 deg shorter exh than the intake... I'd have to ask him for sure....

Oh BTW I got your message from Michele.... Hope you dont mind but I will respectfully DECINE that offer.. tongue.gif Hehehhhehehhee

Originally posted by 69LS1:
Hey Mike,

I cant remember for sure but I think it was the 2nd time Amos set the record at Bonniville in his old 53 Stude C/GC car, he was running I "think" 4 deg shorter exh than the intake... I'd have to ask him for sure....

Oh BTW I got your message from Michele.... Hope you dont mind but I will respectfully DECINE that offer.. tongue.gif Hehehhhehehhee No problem,, I have the Wolves & they are really good at it,,, besides, I believe you have to live on the other side of the bay to,,,,,,never mind,, :D :D :D

Don't know if you know Warren Harnden but he called today to say Hi & he was at Bonneville this year & watched Amos unload his car & promptly set another record in a different class,
If you talk to Amos, tell him I said Hi

I'm afraid I dont know Warren but Joe Glade was in the other day and I was on the phone but he said something about 240 MPH and some change ??.... Didnt hear exactly but not too shaby
for a small block.I guess the new car doesnt have the handeling problems that the Stude had... Like swapping ends @ 180 MPH...Thats just not my idea of fun...

BTW I live in the EAST BAY :D At least we have better weather than you do !! graemlins/thumbsup.gif