I have a line on a great project Suburban (sorry for the off-topic post, guys!) with a 454 in it. Body is straight, needs interior work and that's about it. The reason I'm looking at it is that myself and my girlfriend each have 2 boys and we need something to haul this crew around. I've dropped the pan and found that it has 4-bolt main caps and a cast crank, so I can do just about whatever I want. I also have a steel 427 crank. Considering this road boat weighs in around 5200 lbs empty and will be close to 3 tons loaded as the boys grow, how much grunt would I lose with the 427 as compared to the 454 if they're comparably built? I know that gas mileage and big block powered lead sleds aren't dancing partners, but with cams in the 215 - 225 range in each, would I actually save any by going with the shorter stroke versus higher torque from the 454? I must admit that I'm a big fan of the '27, largely due to it's mystique as well as winding potential, but I think I could sell the shorter stroke crank and the cast one from the block and get pretty close to enough to upgrade to a steel crank for the 454. Also, I considered a stroker small block for this project, but I guess I'm a big block guy at heart and want a mill that will stand up to some abuse. I don't want to have to cringe at high rev shifts when my girlfriend decides she's not about to take that crap from some kid that zipped around her in their ricer (God, she hates 'em! worse than I do), let alone the "mine's better than yours" competition that women go thru MUCH worse than men (believe it, guys, it's true!). By the way, this sled has (I think) 3.73 gears and will have an overdrive tranny, either a beefed 700R4 or 2004R. I'd sure appreciate any Desktop Dyno or real world advice you folks could give me. Thanks in advance!

heavy tow vehicle, keep the 4" stroke 454 for the low end torque, especially with overdrive where you will be turning low rpms at cruise. The shorter stroke will take away low end, and give you the capibility to run higher revs, but only with the matching valvetrain parts. Also, you would have to change to 427 pistons (different compression height) and change the balancer/flexplate and rebalance the shortblock. The 454 is plenty strong, I would leave it as is.

------------------
Dave (NY)
70 chevelle ss396 conv
66 chevelle ss396 hdp/conv
72 chevelle
TC member #493
Never forget Earnhardt!

Just a little info if you don't already know it. Somebody makes up to .060" undersize bearings for the big chevy V-8 if by chance you want to (or have to) do a low-ball rebuild.

The cast crank ought to be fine because with the cam you are talking about running, you aren't going ta rpm your Sub!!

And for more grunt, go w/ a CC 210/218 hydraulic roller and get a lota T. pdq67

So, if hypothetically the crank needs turning (about $125 for a good job here with big radius on filets) and I could get a reasonable quality Scat stroker 4130 steel crank for around $400 that needs no machine work, would that extra 1/4" stroke be worth the $275 in extra grunt (actually about $175 if I sold the 454 crank to a buddy for $100)? From what I understand, that extra low end torque from a stroker is largely wasted on street cars since it fries the tires anyway. How about under a 3-ton sled? Worth going stroker or just stick with economy rebuild of what I have with a cam in the 220 - 225 range? I'm actually kinda surprised that nobody in this horsepower crazy bunch has suggested the stroker avenue yet. And if you haven't already figured it out, I'm dying to see the looks on faces of the ricer and 5-slow drivers when they get outrun by a Suburban, particularly with a woman driving!

Does that $275 include new pistons, cause you're gonna need em. Dont need no steel crank either. Save the 427 crank for a worthwhile project or sell it to some sucka' like me. Dont bother with stroker. You gonna screw with something to wake that stock flatop 454 up, do the old racer1320 trick of throwing some cc heads on there and getting your compression up.( dont know if piston/valve clearance is a given or not ) Or just freshen it up and be done with it.

If you're talking mpg for the 427/454 why would you be thinking 496?

Rebuild the 454 and spend your money on a cam.headers/intake.

------------------
Gene Chaas
Gold Member 62/ACES
67 SS 427 (http://www.chevelles.com/feature/october2000.html)

more grunt - 454

The reason I brought up the stroker idea is added grunt. With this heavy of a car, wouldn't extra torque equate to moving the sub at the same speed at lower engine rpm's - pretty close to the same fuel consumption, give or take a little bit? Or is the stroker just more of a pain in the butt than it's worth? BTW, wasn't the 454 just a stroked 427 when it was first built, more or less? I'm just throwing around some ideas and want to explore all options before I commit. Thanks again for all your comments.

Yeah it is a stroked 427. I dont really know how much this changes an engines charateristics really, but that old bore/stroke ratio is something to consider. The 427 is a revver, the 454 is all around, and the 496 is more of a hi-po stumper. So, yeah, if you unlimited riches, I'd build a 496 for the 'Burban. That is, in theory.

Everything is theoretical until you can pay to try it. http://www.chevelles.com/forum/wink.gif

Anyway, think you can get great torque numbers from a 4" 454 using well picked cam ( like the hyd roller), higher compression and good gas. And you might be able to get buy on those peanut ports too. Not so with the 500 incher I would guess.

Just a matter of bread man!

Heard of a blown 510 street/mudder that got up and ran like nothing that BIG should be allowed to! Aint much on mudders, but thats cool.

BTW, every see the torque numbers that come off a blown, or ever better, turbocharged BBC.

TO DIE FOR!

And I betcha a turbo'd EFI'd 454 a'la Jim Messler, will pull a decent mpg too!


------------------
Gene Chaas
Gold Member 62/ACES
67 SS 427 (http://www.chevelles.com/feature/october2000.html)



[This message has been edited by 427L88 (edited 03-12-2001).]

Im got about $3800/$4000 in my homemade 496.

New merlin ovals and 9.8 to 1 CR. CC 282S solid cam, small 1.75 headers, a Strip Dominator single plane and 750 cfm 3310-2 holley carb.

Dyno2000 says 550hp at 5500rpm and 580T at 4500rpm. I consider my engine just a great big tow-truck engine w/ alotta grunt, thats all. I'm not gonna run it over 55/5800rpm.

Put the single plane on it just ta kill a little low end and add to the top at 5500rpm. pdq67

Many years ago I built a fresh 468 for my buddies 78 chevy 1 ton double cab dually...I used a el cheapo 214/224, 501/527 lift wolverine cam and lifters, edelbrock performer intake, and a set of 325hp/396 heads he had laying around...with the stock carb, exhaust manifolds, and distributor with a cheap mr. gasket curve kit plus dual 2 1/2 pipes with brutally loud 16" glasspacks and megaphones, this thing would light all 4 back tires on a whim. Of course, it had 4.10's but the tall rear tires offset that somewhat. With 6 people in it and a load of stuff in the bed, we got 10 mpg average at 65-70 mph on a trip to new york. Later, when he got ready to sell the truck we dropped an old raggedy late 60's 396 in it and dropped the 468 in a 73 camaro with headers...the 396 wasnt even in the same ballpark as the 468...gas mileage was the same but it felt like a small block in that monster...it would just barely chirp the tires if conditions were right. As for the camaro, well, with a 2.73 posi rear it would blaze the tires from every stop light with just 1/4 throttle...man that car was fun! Gotta love those 454's.

------------------
375hp 78 chevy truck, 77 nova ss, 95 chevy lumina 3.4L, and building a 78 nova

Have you considered the new GM 502 ?
They make several different versions the tow motor sells for about $4400 I believe.