Hi guys,i bit the bullet and had Balckstone test the following and here are the results,Valvoline racing oils being low on ZDDP didn not surprise me at all & its what i suspected all along but i got beat up over it. This is the 2nd test that showed low ZDDP for the valvoine NSL & VR1 20w-50 racing oils so believe it.

The pennzoil gt racing oil came in fairly close the ZDDP lvl stated by the mfg & is great for flat tappet cam protection. The valvoline NSL & VR1 racing oils were both crap for flat tappet cam protection,red stp was dead too but prior red stp tested in 2005 was great. The new 2007 EPA/Gov regs killed the ZDDP lvl's in current red STP & most over the counter oils, the discontinued (for now) GM & AC DELCO EOS was good as usual.

Here are te results:

Keep in mind,1200ppm-1400ppm P/Zn are rec lvls to protect perf flat tappet cams.

SCOTT

================================================== ==============

* VALVOLINE NSL 20W-50 - (P) 842PPM /(Zn) 973PPM /(DETERGENT)950PPM

* VALVOLINE VR1 20W-50 - 684PPM/763PPM/1630PPM

* PENNZOIL GT 25W-50 - 1483PPM/1676PPM/1901PPM

* GM EOS BLACK BOTTLE- 5059PPM/5850PPM/5,800

* AC DELCO EOS WHITE BOTTLE - 5183PPM/6095PPM/5,900

* STP 4CYL IN RED BOTTLE - 151PPM/171PPM/139PPM (WAS 2115PPM/3932PPM IN 2005)

Wow! Thanks for taking the time and expense to have them tested....and sharing with us!!


JIM

Scott,

Thanks for sharing.

Thanks guys.

540/Jim,thats one hell of a quick 67(?) vette you have there,freaking 9.90's with man trans,i watced it mult times just to hear you pulling some nice gears while twisiting up that 540 BBC stroker,loved hearing & seeing it.

Scott

Scott,

Thanks for your dilligent efforts in this research. :D

This is sad news indeed as I have run Valvoline for 25 years! :(

Now if you could only straighten the EPA out on a few things!!:boxing:

Thanks for the doing the testing and sharing your results. Based on previous threads, I purchased the STP Red, after quite the search to find it locally. Given the low zinc content, is there any point in using it at all?

Are either of the GM or AC Delco EOS still available? If so, where, and does anyone have the new P/Ns?

Unfortunately for me, I think it's time to bite the bullet and start switching my engines over to roller cams. Wes

looks like stp is just a waste of money. Any reports on the crane break in lube? EOS seems like gold.

Scott,

I really appreciate your diligence, and devotion to the membership of this board by sharing all of this wealth of information with all of us. U-DA-MAN! :thumbsup::thumbsup:

Thanks Scott, Great info. I to have been using valvoline.Gonna hav ta switch.

Scott, Thanks for your exhaustive efforts on this subject. Glad I didn't order a case of STP red bottle.

Damn it!

Anyway to identify the old bottles of red STP? My brother and I each bought a case a month or so back.

Scott, I echo the thanks here for you doing this. I am using the Valvoline NSL on my large flat tappet cam. Not for long though. Thanks again.


Bill

Scott, Thanks for your exhaustive efforts on this subject. Glad I didn't order a case of STP red bottle.

yup..you da man Scott

Thanks Guys,glad to be of service to all of you .

* GM EOS IN BLK BOTTLE-PT#1052367

* AC DELCO VERSION OF EOS IN WHITE BOTTLE - PT#12371532

* NEW GM EOS DUE OUT EARLY 2008-PT#88862586(HAVE TO TEST THIS WHEN AVAILABLE)

I plan on testing the Crane super concentrate breakin lube as it looks & smells like EOS and is advertised as having a lot of Zn & P so we will see.

On the STP,i contacted STP and they claim tonot know how much ZDDP is in thier produst these days let alone when they lowered the ZDDP and what the cutoff lot # was so sorry i cant help you with that.

And yes i too bought a case of the uselss stp with little to no ZDDP in it thats good for only a viscosity thickner at this point.

If funny though it still states in very small letters on the lower right side of front label zddp,thats a gas when there is alomst none in it.

Dont give up guys the pennzoil gt 20w-50 racing oil ihas plenty of ZDDP and the lubriplate 15w-40 comes in at 1040ppm Zn & 830ppm P which did better then the NSL 20w-50 on zddp ,but both of them are fine with a good hit of EOS if you have it.

Some of the full syn oils can do the job too like the new castrol 20w-50 due on shelves late 2007/early 2008 which is specifically designed with incresed zddp for the flat tappet cams in our older motors,willhave to test that one too.

Boy,i already spent $120 on this 1st round of testing and looks like i will be spending another $120-$150 when all is done,but then i/we will know the scoop on many of the oils and breakin lubes when it comes to Zn & P along with detrgent content too.

Scott

Putting the new Comp cam in my allready built and run motor this week. So if I use Crane cam paste on lobes and lifter bottoms, Crane break-in lube and Pennzoil GT, I should have the best lubricants for cam breakin? I will prime and re-lube lobes after I adjust valves with intake off.

Does the pennzoil gt come in anything besides 20w50? I don't want something that thick.

scott you have paypal? If we all chip in a little that would help. Strength in numbers.

Just wondering which oil thats not diesel or 20w50 would be good for a flat tappet cam. I am using the old formula delo oil but it has a lot of detergents which i heard is bad. I also don't want to use the 20w50 oil either, i was going to switch to the valvoline not street legal oil but guess i'll pass on that.

scott you have paypal? If we all chip in a little that would help. Strength in numbers.

Scott, thank you for the part numbers. I would also like to chip in and help you out with the test costs.

Wes

Guy's,thanks so much for the offer to chip in a few $,i really appreciate it and i am not rich money wise by any means so its very helpfull.

I do have a paypal email address which i will send in a p/msg because i am a little worried about putting it out there for the whole world to see.

So if anyone wants to chip in a few $ pm me and i will respond to your p/msg with my paypal email address.

Thanks...Scott

Lucky3/the new CJ rated Delo 15w-40 has more zddp then rotella and less detregnt then the older CI rated delo.

The has approx 1200ppm-Zn & 1040ppm-P which should be good enough to do the job because from what i have read the P can be a smideg lower then the 1200ppm and you should still be ok as long as the Zn is a min of 1200ppm which the newer delo CJ oil has with lower detrgent lvl's thats more in line with std gas engine oils.

Here is what the pennzoil site says pasted below:

================================================== ================

Pennzoil GT Racing Motor Oil

Available Grades include:
SAE 50, SAE 60, 25W-50
PennzoilŪ Racing Oil is designed for the lubrication of high-performance competition engines. It is fortified with superior additives and oils which resist breakdown under the high loads, temperatures and speeds experienced by fast revving engines.

Benefits:
PennzoilŪ Racing motor oil offers maximum protection for competition engines. Available in three viscosity grades, it is recommended for supercharged, turbocharged and naturally aspirated engines that use racing gasoline or other exotic fuels (including methanol or nitromethane).

Compounded especially for racing engines
Maximizes obtainable horsepower
Can be used with a variety of competition fuels
Suitable for use in most competition engines
SAE 25W-50 provides outstanding low-temperature service when a proper low-RPM warm-up period is not possible
For more technical data, see product data sheets.

Interesting stuff...Thanks for sharing, and going through the trouble! Good news on the Delo. At least it seems to have what we need, and its readily available.

Note to self.....buy more SLOB at Big Lots since STP pretty much stinks.

Bummer on the red STP, I wonder if the case I bought is the old good stuff or the new crappy stuff? Probably the crappy stuff....

Personally, I wouldn't put any Pennzoil product in anything I own, not even my lawnmower! I'll continue to use Valvoline NSL with a shot of EOS. Valvoline has been good to me for decades and my past brief experience with Pennzoil was not a positive one.

My one burning question is if my Honda, VW and Toyota can continue to survive on typical motor oils (I religiously use Valvoline DuraBlend in my daily drivers)? Heck, the VW may have a roller cam, I really don't know but I know the Honda and Toyota do not but I do know the spring pressures in them come nowhere close to those used on even a mild cam in a Chevy V8.

So if anyone wants to chip in a few $ pm me and i will respond to your p/msg with my paypal email address.


Scott. PM Sent.

Cheers,

Thanks Scott. Man, that is the second oil analysis I've seen where the VR1 was low on zinc. I usually run it in my Pontiac 400. So the new Delo 15w40 will be Ok? any analysis on the new silver cap Mobil 1 15w50? Mobil touts 1200ppm. Another thought. Havoline Deposit shield site shows 1100 ppm of zinc in there 10w40 and 20w50. but on the Inenginering site they show only about 400 ppm of zinc on their analysis for the havoline 20w50. Any thoughts. James

Hi Rich,yeh i have a case of useless stp red too.

You will be just fine with 1 full pt of eos with valvoline nsl 20w-50,the zddp lvl will be well within the rec 1200ppm-1400ppm ZDDP range.

i am thinking of switching to the pennzoil racing oil and would like to know what bad exp you had in the past.

I think i remeber hearing things may yrs back about pennzoil/quakerstate which were PA based oils having issues with sludge buildup /etc in motors ,is that the exp you had with it?

Thanks...Scott

I think i remeber hearing things may yrs back about pennzoil/quakerstate which were PA based oils having issues with sludge buildup /etc in motors ,is that the exp you had with it?



Bingo. It also left a scummy white film on things which smelled bad. It also seemed to increase oil useage (oil burning) and oil leakage. Perhaps it was psychological, but the car seemed to run better when I switched back to other oils (Trop-Artic at that time).

I thought the measurement for EOS usage was a half ounce of EOS per quart of oil. That would come to 2.5 ounces per 5 quart oil fill. Has the formula changed?

I just posted a similar note on another thread, but - I just ordered a case of the Joe Gibbs Racing "Break In oil" to start up the +.060 396 for the 65 Elky. It seems to have the right stuff for flat tappet break in. Then I'll likely switch to the PZoil GT for it after the break in oil is drained. We'll do the same for a nice 454 going into my Son's 68 SS. OLDED

Thanks a lot Scott.

I think the most discouraging thing about all this is how the manufacturer's change their formulations, and we have no way of knowing without performing these tests. I too have a couple cases of Valvoline NSL which according to the most recent tests won't adequately protect my flat tappet cam.

I'm beginning to think it would by a good idea to purchase some of that ZDDPlus sold on Ebay. Someone analyzed it at Bobistheoilguy. It contains over 50,000 ppm zinc & over 75,000 ppm phosphorus. Adding even 2 oz to a 5-qt oil change would increase zinc to over 1300 ppm, assuming your oil contains 650 ppm zinc. Using the whole 4 oz bottle would provide over 2,000 ppm zinc in 5 qts. Phosphorus would be 50% higher.

Thanks a lot Scott.

I think the most discouraging thing about all this is how the manufacturer's change their formulations, and we have no way of knowing without performing these tests. I too have a couple cases of Valvoline NSL which according to the most recent tests won't adequately protect my flat tappet cam.

I'm beginning to think it would by a good idea to purchase some of that ZDDPlus sold on Ebay. Someone analyzed it at Bobistheoilguy. It contains over 50,000 ppm zinc & over 75,000 ppm phosphorus. Adding even 2 oz to a 5-qt oil change would increase zinc to over 1300 ppm, assuming your oil contains 650 ppm zinc. Using the whole 4 oz bottle would provide over 2,000 ppm zinc in 5 qts. Phosphorus would be 50% higher.

Too much of a good thing can be bad as well so be careful. On catalytic controlled cars, too much zinc can clog the converter. In an older vehicle, excessive amounts of zinc and phospherous really do nothing but create more pollution and in states in which cars have to be smog certified, excessive amounts in the oil could cause the car to fail the test.

Scott, sent you a PM...

Guys,thanks again for PM'S,i answered them.

Scott

What about this stuff
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q261/YENKO1311/12345501.gif
:confused:

Scott, thanks for your information and sharing.

When adding the EOS, I thought the same as a previous post. 0.5 oz. per quart of oil.

CHRIS,THAT PARTICULAR LUBE FROM GM IS APPLIED DIRECTLY TO LIFTERS AND CAM LOBES DURING ASSEMBLY,ITS NOT NORMSALLY ADDDED TO THE CRANKCASE TO INC ZDDP PROTECTION.

(OPP'SSORRY ABOUT CAPS)

TIM,the .5 oz EOS per qt oil was the rec per LN engineering rept and that small amt EOS would only inc the Zn & P 100ppm which is not nearly enough to put most oils into the safe 1200ppm-1400ppm range for Zn & P. So with that said you have to usually add approx 1 pint of EOS to get the ZDDP in line where it belongs .

Scott

WOW! thats awesome Scott!!! (I saw this thread a little late) I've been using a bottle of the Comp Cams lube with every oil change and so far everything seams to be working but that stuff is like $12 a bottle... I was planning on switching over to my now useless case of red STP...anybody want it cheap/free?. Looks like its Penzoil for now on. Anyway way cool Scott thanks man!:thumbsup:

I just got my case of red STP in last week:(:sad:

Jake,i too am stuck with a case of the STP RED so dont feel bad.

scott

I just got my case of red STP in last week:(:sad:

Jake,i too am stuck with a case of the STP RED so dont feel bad.

scott

And three of us makes a party.

Check out what Valvoline says about their NSL(VV851), the chart says .12 percent, isn't that the same as 1200 ppm? False advertising or do they have different test results? -Jim

Well, the link might help! -LOL. -Jim http://www.valvoline.com/products/Specialty%20racing%20oils.pdf

Jim,you are correct .12% = 1200ppm, but take note that the valvoline data sheet is dated 2004 which is almost 4 yrs old thus worthless IMHO.

I would not take any data sheets seriously that are dated prior to 1/2007 since the new gov regs for even further reduced zddp kicked in after that.

Iv'e seen two seperate tests done on the valvoline NSL racing 20w-50 racng oil this yr and both times it failed to meet the rec 1200ppm-1400ppm Zn & P required for flat tappet cams not even close to the ZDDP #'s stated in thier data sheet.

Scott

Wonder why Valvoline would cut the zinc in a race only(not street legal) oil? -Jim

Dont know why Valvoline would cut ZDDP,all i know is that 2 tests back to back came in low on ZDDP,thats all i can say about it.


I wish the valvoline did have better lvl's of ZDDP in their racing ils but it seems to not be the case.

Scott