I have a cam kit that came with a long block I purchased (396 that will be .040-.060 over, using oval port closed chamber heads..targeted compression of 9.5:1 with some mild port work)..the cam kit is an Erson Brute Power hydraulic cam, BP270 grind, Adv. Duration 270I/280E (214I/224E @ .050), .501" lift I/.527" lift E, 112 LSA. Kit has Erson springs, pushrods, and rockers that all were installed in the engine for "600 miles"..hmmm...

Is this cam considered "mild"? I want to make around 450HP. I will use it if its ok, Id hate to buy new..but not sure if it fits the bill.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

John

JTM,

You will not even be close to 450HP from that setup with that cam. Probably closer to 350 - 360HP. Truthfully, I would rethink what you want to achieve. A 450HP 396 motor is actually rather potent and would need a lot more compression, cylinder head and camshaft. It would also not make much power below 3000 RPM. And last, the motor will need good quality components that will rev to 7000 RPM. I run a similiar engine combo that is in the 370 - 380 HP range that is very strong to drive at all throttle positions. If you really think you need 450HP, use a 454 motor to start with.

Actually,closer to 400 HP IMHO and experience,but what does that mean? I have a stock 67 396 laying around thats .030 over with #215 heads (about 9.5 to 1 with .180 domes) and small Crower solid lifter cam (.517/.530 lift,114 LSA)can't remember duration) anyway,not much different than what you have,other than the cam..this motor has gone a best of 12.45/105 MPH in a 67 Chevelle (Big Block Dave's car) running 4.10's/TH400 and a 3500 stall.The motor ran 13.20's/102-103 with 3.73's,less convertor,a Torker and 2.5" exhaust.Swapping to an RPM intake,4.10's,more convertor,3" exhaust and some rear suspension work got the aforementioned 12.45
Bottom line,get a bigger cam..something in the 220-230ish @ .050 ground on 110 or 112 LSA up to .550 lift.

Chris,

That 396 combo looks real familiar - I do believe that's what I am running now! But seriously, you guys all steered me correctly with the cam / converter / rear combination that my 408 powered '69 is just a blast to drive. What's most interesting is how all of us who grew up in the "Golden Age" of Muscle cars - for me that was a drivers license in '73, it was common for 11.0/1 street motors, big solid cams, 4 speeds and 4.56 gears - and ran the heck out of them. Today, we run big hydraulics, automatics w/ high stall converters, mid 3 series gears and go the same ET. No matter how you cut it, cam the motor for as big and broad of a torque you can get and the car will haul butt.

The Crower solid is 244/246 @ .050..just checked the cam card.
Joe,I'm from the old school too..big cam,single plane,4 series gearset..then 4 years ago,I started re-educating myself with the knowledge of current and past contributors to this website.
10 years ago if you told me you had a big block that ran high 12's/low 13's with 2.73's I probably would laughed at you (or myself for that matter) :D

i ran that cam last year for awhile in my 396 with 9.0 to 1 compression.and tell ya it just gave up at 5000 rpms.....it was fine down low but really did nothing on top........after several cams and changing head back i finally found what i was looking for....

if you was looking for 450 hp i would say you wont find it with that cam......

my 396 right now is puting an honest 350 hp to the rear wheels.....and that would be well over the 400 hp mark at the flex plate....

it took some time but this engines runs hard and smooth from idle to 6400 rpms....

my old school ways of making big power was just to go big or stay at home...

396 with a factory grind ZL-1 cam with 262/273 @ .050" with 11.7 to 1 compression using factory style 396/375 hp pistons, home ported heads,old trangula stlye intake with a fat 850 double pumper on top, and summit headers....with a 4500 stall and 3.70 gears would turn easy 12. teens at 115 mph in treet trim on radials....slick and open headers well into the 11's nitrous pushed it into the 10's.....this makes for a radical everyday driver less the 5" of vacuum at idle 11mpg out on the highway....and a very rough idle.....now this engine was well around the 500 hp level and loved to run to 7200 rpms....

First stab I had at using more modern technology and a a new more intuitive perspective into the less is more theory was a '71 454/365 LS5, 4 spd car that I bought in '86 (had to sell it in '88 to help pay for a house). First thing we did was throw in a Chevy solid cam (the old standard 242/242, .520/.520 on 114LSA) that I had taken out of a 396/375 years before. OK, fired it up and thought - this sounds real healthy now - wrong - dead slug. After much back and forth I contacted Crane and got a recommendation for a 278 Hydraulic Econopower Cam [278/290, 222/234, .529/.560 on 114] still have the Cam Card - looking at it right now. At first I thought the guy was nuts, there was no way that little cam would make the power I wanted. Installed it 4 degrees advanced at I believe ended up at 108. The tech rep was dead on. The motor felt like it gained 100 HP. Moral of this, this was my first introduction into a more modern way of thinking.

My 9.5/1 408 oval port motor runs a Crane 286 Powermax. I would highly recommend no more than this for a 9.5/1CR 396 based motor intended to run on the street. And truthfully, you could loose 10 degrees off the intake duration and probably not loose HP but pick up torque.

That's my .02.

Thanks for the info, it certainly is giving me food for thought.

One other question..I noticed tonite that I have 2 different oval port heads, from different years. One is 3917215, and the other is 3904390. From what I can tell these are the same..are there any issues with running these on my motor?

I figure the cam and kit you have is a rebox, Clevite PN 229-1737 or an Elgin PN E-930-P b/c Erson doesn't list such an animal and i am looking at their spec. sheet!!

I bought an Erson Hi Flow AH BB, hy-cam before the dreaded, "more power, Scottie", bug bit me!!

It's spec's are 284/218 or 220, 111/111, .542" lift!! I say 218 or 220 b/c I think it is the same cam but now listed as a 220???

It is a better match for a mild 396 motor then the one you have, but it won't make the kind of power you are hoping for!! It is, however, imho, a DANDY street cam in a street motor!!

D2K say's about 425hp with just small headers and stock, untouched small valve heads and your about 9.5 to 1 CR...

Your cam IF IT IS INDEED a 270/280 only makes about 363hp!! AND I say it this way b/c it is actually listed as having 280/290-from Elgin, or 292/302-from Clevite!!

And a 292/302 cam gives about 376hp.......

Confusing, isn't it??? To say the least...

pdq67

Thanks PDQ!

One last question..on the heads..I thought the heads I had were the same, but someone from tag team told me the cc's were a bit different..both heads are oval port, closed chamber, however I was informed that one is 98cc comb chamber, and the other is 101cc. Is this something I should worry about? And if I intend to get some bowl blending/port work done..will the machine shop make both cc's the same shape anyway?

Thanks PDQ!

One last question..on the heads..I thought the heads I had were the same, but someone from tag team told me the cc's were a bit different..both heads are oval port, closed chamber, however I was informed that one is 98cc comb chamber, and the other is 101cc. Is this something I should worry about? And if I intend to get some bowl blending/port work done..will the machine shop make both cc's the same shape anyway?

See if the Machine Shop won't fix you up with a good matching head for either one of yours so that you will have a number matched set by just trading one for the other.

It will save you and/or the Machinist a hassle balancing chambers, imho!!

pdq67

PS., my old '55 H/T had a stock, 265-P/G in it that had two different heads on it AND it never did run stone stock smooth! I figure the heads were just enough different so as to cause a very minor CR. difference between cylinder banks which caused it to run slightly rough....

My heads were 2 cc off side to side. No big deal, we took a few more thou off the bigger head and got them all much closer. Still have one outlyer, #7 is at 114.5, while all 7 others are at 112.5cc +/-.5cc.

Easy enough to mill another .010-.015" off the bigger head, no big shakes at all.

XE274, or XS278 would fit real well in that motor , or Chris's cam the old Ultradyne 280/88 or now Lunati 302A7. BBMike runs that cam in a 402 and it sounds, and runs, superbly.

Originally posted by ddeennis:
i ran that cam last year for awhile in my 396 with 9.0 to 1 compression.and tell ya it just gave up at 5000 rpms.....it was fine down low but really did nothing on top........after several cams and changing head back i finally found what i was looking for....

if you was looking for 450 hp i would say you wont find it with that cam......

my 396 right now is puting an honest 350 hp to the rear wheels.....and that would be well over the 400 hp mark at the flex plate....

it took some time but this engines runs hard and smooth from idle to 6400 rpms....

my old school ways of making big power was just to go big or stay at home...

396 with a factory grind ZL-1 cam with 262/273 @ .050" with 11.7 to 1 compression using factory style 396/375 hp pistons, home ported heads,old trangula stlye intake with a fat 850 double pumper on top, and summit headers....with a 4500 stall and 3.70 gears would turn easy 12. teens at 115 mph in treet trim on radials....slick and open headers well into the 11's nitrous pushed it into the 10's.....this makes for a radical everyday driver less the 5" of vacuum at idle 11mpg out on the highway....and a very rough idle.....now this engine was well around the 500 hp level and loved to run to 7200 rpms.... what type of heads? smile.gif

I'm with GRN69CHV with the crane 286 Powermax. Have this installed in a oval port (100cc) 396 with 9.0-9.5 compression. Used a Holley 750cfm with a Stealth intake. Produced exactly 340RWHP on a chasis dyno. This equates to at least 400 Flywheel HP.

ragtop,

One of my favorite street motor is the 427/390 oval port motor. That was my benchmark for driveable power when I put the 408 together. I had originally figured about 375 -380 HP at the flywheel, have not had it dyno'd, but I judging by the s-o-p feel and the way the car will light up the tires at will, it is definitely a 400HP motor. Have you ran yours for ET?

jtm60,

Like I said, the Erson Hi Flow AH BB, hy-cam is perfect for your combination!! IMHO..

It's spec's are 284/218 or 220, 111/111, .542" lift!! I say 218 or 220 b/c I think it is the same cam but now listed as a 220???

I ran a whole bunch of cams through D2K for my then to be 468 motor before I settled on it b/c I wanted max. grunt!! It did it!!

Send me an e-mail at home if you are interested in it b/c I will make you a deal!!

It is brand new with only "moly" on it!! NEVER had a lifter touch it!!

I have it and a brand new Clevite, 229-1636 cam that are sitting around taking up space.. Spec's on the Clevite cam are 306/222/322/235 306, 115/110, .500"/.505" lift. It's old school cam but in the right combination will still run very strong, imho..

I "moly'ed" the Erson up, stabbed her in my motor AND then sometime later the dreaded, "more power Scottie" bug bit me!!!!

I ended up going with a CC 282S solid for my 496... BTW, it's in my CC cam box..

pdq67

Guys, again, thanks for all the input on this, it has really helped me decide on what I/m going to do. Using this info and some other relevant posts I have read, I have decided that I want a cam with 220-230 degrees duration, .525-.550 lift, and 110-112 LSA. The guy doing my motor is aware of the slight differences with the heads and is going to address it, as I am having some port/polish/bowl work done to the heads at the same time, so in the end I think the cc's will be the same. The cam is going to be a custom grind Lunati hydraulic flat tappet ( I will follow up with the exact #'s when I have them). Engine is going to be built and dyno'd prior to my acceptance and I am being confidently told that 450HP will not be a problem, so we'll see. BTW this will be with .040" over 396, KB pistons, forged crank (2 bolt block). Balanced and 'blueprinted'..Honestly if I wind up over 400hp, its going to suffice, but I used the 450hp as a target just in case-my neighbor is doing a 70SS 396 up now, and I am trying to make sure I have bragging rights for a while anyway.

PDQ..thanks for the cam offer, but I already have that Erson that I now need to sell!