I posted a topic a few days ago about buying an Elgin cam for my 406. Most people told me a cam like the comp cams magnum 280 would be ideal. I found on another message board a topic about an Elgin cam being very similar to the magnum 280. I went ahead and ordered that cam and I received it today. It is part #E920P. However after receiving it I noticed on the box the duration is more than what the magazine said. The catalog said 288 duration, the cam is actually 292.
Here are the full specs for the cam and its a single pattern:
480 lift, 292 duration, 230@ .050, 109 lobe separation

Here is my engine: 406 with flat top pistons with 2 valve reliefs, 993 heads with 1.94 valves and 76 cc chambers, "pistons said with 76cc chambers I should be between 10-1 and 10.2-1 compression", edelbrock performer or weiand x-celerator intake, whichever one I choose, 1 5/8 headers, 750 Holley carb, 4 speed, 3.55 gears, 3400lb car.

Should I return this cam and get a smaller one or will this one work? I wasn't planning on going with this much duration. I don't plan on going with different heads at the present time. I went to the Elgin website and it said this cam makes power in the 2200- 5500 rpm range.
Thanks for any help,
Joe

I posted a topic a few days ago about buying an Elgin cam for my 406. Most people told me a cam like the comp cams magnum 280 would be ideal. I found on another message board a topic about an Elgin cam being very similar to the magnum 280. I went ahead and ordered that cam and I received it today. It is part #E920P. However after receiving it I noticed on the box the duration is more than what the magazine said. The catalog said 288 duration, the cam is actually 292.
Here are the full specs for the cam and its a single pattern:
480 lift, 292 duration, 230@ .050, 109 lobe separation

Here is my engine: 406 with flat top pistons with 2 valve reliefs, 993 heads with 1.94 valves and 76 cc chambers, "pistons said with 76cc chambers I should be between 10-1 and 10.2-1 compression", edelbrock performer or weiand x-celerator intake, whichever one I choose, 1 5/8 headers, 750 Holley carb, 4 speed, 3.55 gears, 3400lb car.

Should I return this cam and get a smaller one or will this one work? I wasn't planning on going with this much duration. I don't plan on going with different heads at the present time. I went to the Elgin website and it said this cam makes power in the 2200- 5500 rpm range.
Thanks for any help,
Joe


That alot of adv. duration for that compression and what ever you get for a cam get a P-55 core and GM hydraulic lifters

I think if you ran both cams ,you couldnt notice the difference!! the cam has an advertised of 292 , but the duration @ .050 is still 230 . I think it will be fine wiht that compression and a manual trans. should have a nice lope at idle .

i think the advertized duration is different on these cams but the 0.050 duration is 230* for both and a 0.480 lift on both. not sure on the comp cam centerline-i though it was 110*. so overall these cams are similar. i had one in my 68-malibu when it had a 350sb with 10.25comp and small tube headers and 4-sp/3.08 rear gears. it had to idle @ 1200rpm. sounded/ran good, even got 19mpg on the expressway when i took it easy....

The Cam you bought from Elgin is the same cam as the 280 Magnum. I check the duration @.050 on both cams and the both at 230 @.050. Theie Adv duraton may be measure diffrent at the base of the lobe. Most of the cam company measure the duration at .020 Tappet lift and Elgin might measure their at .015 is the reason the adv duration is so much bigger. The best way to campare cams is at .050 all cam companies do have duration at .050 on their spec list.


HYDRAULIC-Great for street machines. Needs Hyd. Hyd. 2000 to 6000 12-212-2 280H Ad Dur.280 280 Dur @.050 230 230 Lift .480 .480 Center line 110°
2500+stall, headers & gears. Rough idle.

I have a hyd roller cam that is 224/232 @.050" in my lil ol 355"er with 10.5 compression and it's fine.( 13"+ of vacuum) That cam should be purr in a 406" mtr. :thumbsup:
I know it is apples to oranges (roller to flt tap cam) but you've got me by 51ci" :(:D

I've got the Melling version of that cam in my about 9.5 to 1 406 SB that was in my 1st Gen. Camaro, (pulled to make room for my 496), now and I ran it as my daily driver for a year way back there!

Virgin big valve -461's w/ dished pistons and a .045" quench, a 750 Q-Jet on the early 2101 Performer and Hooker, 1.625" dia, 4-tube, long headers....

I was way under headed looking back..

My biggest problem w/ it was that my combination was an M-20, 3.31's and 26.5" tall, L-60 tires so it didn't get up on the pipe until like 3,000 GOOD!!

Once she hit, 3, HOLD-ON!!

Use the 280 /230, 110/106, .480" hy-cam instead and you should be fine!!

pdq67

I posted a topic a few days ago about buying an Elgin cam for my 406. Most people told me a cam like the comp cams magnum 280 would be ideal. I found on another message board a topic about an Elgin cam being very similar to the magnum 280. I went ahead and ordered that cam and I received it today. It is part #E920P. However after receiving it I noticed on the box the duration is more than what the magazine said. The catalog said 288 duration, the cam is actually 292.
Here are the full specs for the cam and its a single pattern:
480 lift, 292 duration, 230@ .050, 109 lobe separation

Here is my engine: 406 with flat top pistons with 2 valve reliefs, 993 heads with 1.94 valves and 76 cc chambers, "pistons said with 76cc chambers I should be between 10-1 and 10.2-1 compression", edelbrock performer or weiand x-celerator intake, whichever one I choose, 1 5/8 headers, 750 Holley carb, 4 speed, 3.55 gears, 3400lb car.

Should I return this cam and get a smaller one or will this one work? I wasn't planning on going with this much duration. I don't plan on going with different heads at the present time. I went to the Elgin website and it said this cam makes power in the 2200- 5500 rpm range.
Thanks for any help,
Joe

Lunati has a bracketmaster cam that matches those specs. pretty closely. http://www.holley.com/00010.asp
I think you will be fine with this cam in a 406. For comparison sake I am running a 290/297 adv., 235/240@.050, on a 112 LSA in a 355. And it runs pretty well. A 406 will swallow up a good bit of cam.

The Cam you bought from Elgin is the same cam as the 280 Magnum. I check the duration @.050 on both cams and the both at 230 @.050. Theie Adv duraton may be measure diffrent at the base of the lobe. Most of the cam company measure the duration at .020 Tappet lift and Elgin might measure their at .015 is the reason the adv duration is so much bigger. The best way to campare cams is at .050 all cam companies do have duration at .050 on their spec list.


HYDRAULIC-Great for street machines. Needs Hyd. Hyd. 2000 to 6000 12-212-2 280H Ad Dur.280 280 Dur @.050 230 230 Lift .480 .480 Center line 110°
2500+stall, headers & gears. Rough idle.


=
The two cams are not the same
Hyd cams are not measured at .020 or .015 lifter rise.
If both cams are measured in the same manner which I doubt there will be a sizable difference between the Comp & Elgin due to the seat timing
If they are measured differently you are correct the difference may well be small
At a guess I would say the Elgin is at .004.
Comp is .006 lifter rise not .015 or .020
Also, that 1° of LSA can be a big deal with regards to how the cam acts especially at lower speeds.

While I am guilty of using .050 numbes a lot,,, I do not ignore the advertised numbers any more than I ignore the 200 numbers. ;)
An engine does not care what the duration is at .050, it cares when the valves open & close, how fast & how far.

Thanks for all of the replies. Here are a couple of more specs about the cam. I said it had 109 separation, that is what the magazine said and its not.
107 on intake and 111 on exhaust
cam lift is 320 on intake and exhaust.
Thanks again guys!
Joe

(107 ICL + 111 ECL) /2 = 109 LCA!

pdq67

The two cams are not the same
Hyd cams are not measured at .020 or .015 lifter rise.
If both cams are measured in the same manner which I doubt there will be a sizable difference between the Comp & Elgin due to the seat timing
If they are measured differently you are correct the difference may well be small
At a guess I would say the Elgin is at .004.
Comp is .006 lifter rise not .015 or .020
Also, that 1° of LSA can be a big deal with regards to how the cam acts especially at lower speeds.

While I am guilty of using .050 numbes a lot,,, I do not ignore the advertised numbers any more than I ignore the 200 numbers.
An engine does not care what the duration is at .050, it cares when the valves open & close, how fast & how far.
__________________
Well At least I know the cam is the same because I do have the list of every inch the tappet rise and dergree of many diffrent cams and every cam company profile plus I.ve got over 700 masters to grind cams,and we can make bigger cams pull 17" on vaccum.
My dad has been studying cams profile and ramp speed for over 35 years....

to the original poster, looking at ad duration can help determine how lazy or aggressive the lobe is when compared to the duration @ .050" numbers.

I have the Speed Pro version of the CC-280H.
The cam card numbers at .050 cam lift are the same - so is the cam lift at .320" - same 110* LSA.

The advertised duration of both cams is checked at .006 VALVE LIFT (SAE J604) therefore .004" cam lift.
The Speed Pro has 287 advertised duration compared to the CC's 280.
The valve opening points are the same for both cams. The extra 7* on the Speed Pro is on the closing side of both lobes.
I guess the Speed Pro has slow, gentle closing ramps on it.

When dyno'd in my 358 CID small block (using 1.6:1 rockers) the HP peaked at 5800 and the HP curve was flat up to 6200.
A similiar cam in your 406 will probably have a HP peak around 5400 - perfect for a street car. Your cam is not too big for a 406 IMO.

I have the Speed Pro version of the CC-280H.
The cam card numbers at .050 cam lift are the same - so is the cam lift at .320" - same 110* LSA.

The advertised duration of both cams is checked at .006 VALVE LIFT (SAE J604) therefore .004" cam lift.
The Speed Pro has 287 advertised duration compared to the CC's 280.
The valve opening points are the same for both cams. The extra 7* on the Speed Pro is on the closing side of both lobes.
I guess the Speed Pro has slow, gentle closing ramps on it.

When dyno'd in my 358 CID small block (using 1.6:1 rockers) the HP peaked at 5800 and the HP curve was flat up to 6200.
A similiar cam in your 406 will probably have a HP peak around 5400 - perfect for a street car. Your cam is not too big for a 406 IMO.
=
Comp does not use .004 tappet lift, they use .006 tappet lift.
It makes them look better :D
Crane uses .004
Isky uses various points so it makes things even more confusing.
As for when the power peaks, it is not just a function of the cam
You can use the same cam with a different intake & it will move the peak Torque & or the peak HP
Same with headers.


The two cams are not the same
Hyd cams are not measured at .020 or .015 lifter rise.
If both cams are measured in the same manner which I doubt there will be a sizable difference between the Comp & Elgin due to the seat timing
If they are measured differently you are correct the difference may well be small
At a guess I would say the Elgin is at .004.
Comp is .006 lifter rise not .015 or .020
Also, that 1° of LSA can be a big deal with regards to how the cam acts especially at lower speeds.

While I am guilty of using .050 numbes a lot,,, I do not ignore the advertised numbers any more than I ignore the 200 numbers.
An engine does not care what the duration is at .050, it cares when the valves open & close, how fast & how far.
__________________
Well At least I know the cam is the same because I do have the list of every inch the tappet rise and dergree of many diffrent cams and every cam company profile plus I.ve got over 700 masters to grind cams,and we can make bigger cams pull 17" on vaccum.
My dad has been studying cams profile and ramp speed for over 35 years....
=
If you know every cam lobe in existence & have the ability to measure the lobes of cams with some modicum of accuracy than you should know that those two lobes may not be the same although I have not measured the Elgin so I cannot state for sure it is not real close to the Comp
At least not by the two widely accepted standards of seat measurement with some exceptions.
GM for one & on the other side Isky which uses varying seat timing points.

You should also know that hyd cams are not measured at .015 or ,020 lifter rise as you stated.
And I would expect you should also know that a cam with a 110 LSA is not the same as one with 109 LSA especially if you understand how to get vacuum with larger cams.
So,,, how exactly are the cams in question the same??

And since you bring up every degree of different cams it so happens I do have the ability to check them, do it all the time ;)

http://wsm.ezsitedesigner.com/share/scrapbook/19/190264/Rowdy_s_540_cam_002.jpg

http://wsm.ezsitedesigner.com/share/scrapbook/19/190264/Rowdy_s_540_cam_003.jpg

BTW, what constitutes a "bigger cam"??
Would that be one that is for a 12 cylinder?
Or would we be talking 55mm core
Possibly a "full race" one :p
Or only "3/4 race,,,,, :D


Now,,
With all that said, back to the original question,,,
Joe,
The cam should work just fine in your 406" engine but given the advertised numbers I would at least question where they are derived from
The lobes could very well be close to the Comp ones but if they do happen to be at .006 which I doubt, it appears to be a "slower" lobe compared to the Comp one.
As an example,
Consider the Comp 292,, (at .006 lifter rise)
It is 244 @ .050 :)

Does it happen to say where the 292 number is measured at on the card or box?

I had a similar cam in my 10.2:1 383, (it was a 292/292 adv dur) it was kind of a pig at lower RPMs. Where do you shift? I'd be concerned running that cam with a low CR.

Looks like the same cam a Lunati #00010, Bracket master series. A lumpy idle cam, good mid range , but if you have power brakes, you may have some vacuum issues. I had the same cam in a truck, a 355, with a 3.42 gear , and it was awesome. At times I would have a stiff pedal, but I never had to install a vacuum canister.

I wouldn't worry about the compression being too low.We installed a 238/248 @ .050 .540 lift 114 LSA into a stock 8 to 1 454 and it runs very,very well.Low 13's with 3.07 gears and no tuning.Runs on 87 octane.

This engine is going in my 57 chevy. It doesn't have power anything so I don't have to worry about loss of vacuum. My compression should be around 10-1-10.2-1. That isn't real low for a street motor.
I have the cam specs that are off of the box, I'll list everything it says.
cam lift: intake & exhaust .320,
valve lift: int. & exh. .480,
lobe centers: int. 107 & exh. 111
adv. dur. 292 int. & exh.,
.050 dur. 230 int & exh,
adv timing BTC 37, ABC 75, BBC 75, ATC 37
.050 timing BTC 8, ABC 42, BBC 46, ATC 4
Thanks for the many replies and technical expertise. I'm going to go ahead use this cam. I think everyone has said it will be a good cam for my 406. I don't plan on spinning this engine past 5000rpm. I may eventually down the road get some real good heads. I'm sure I will see the true potential of this engine when that happens.
Thanks again,
Joe

You will loose some vaccum with this cam, But you can find one with same at .050 with shorter seat duration will increase the vaccum.

This engine is going in my 57 chevy. It doesn't have power anything so I don't have to worry about loss of vacuum. My compression should be around 10-1-10.2-1. That isn't real low for a street motor.
I have the cam specs that are off of the box, I'll list everything it says.
cam lift: intake & exhaust .320,
valve lift: int. & exh. .480,
lobe centers: int. 107 & exh. 111
adv. dur. 292 int. & exh.,
.050 dur. 230 int & exh,
adv timing BTC 37, ABC 75, BBC 75, ATC 37
.050 timing BTC 8, ABC 42, BBC 46, ATC 4
Thanks for the many replies and technical expertise. I'm going to go ahead use this cam. I think everyone has said it will be a good cam for my 406. I don't plan on spinning this engine past 5000rpm. I may eventually down the road get some real good heads. I'm sure I will see the true potential of this engine when that happens.
Thanks again,
Joe

Run it.
I had a Lunati or may have been a Perfect Circle one in a 86 Silverado.(Same lift,same duration at .050. )It had a 412ci.S.B. Ran like hell.I spent more money on TIRES the first year than I did on GAS.And it was a flat top piston engine with open chamber heads,small valves and a Performer intake with a 600 Holley.And by the way,I had to use 92 octane fuel.Timing was set to 34 degrees total.

AND MY POWER BRAKES WORKED FINE.I did however see that you said nothing on the car was power and that you have a 4 speed.So..........

I ran a Comp Magnum 280 cam in my 406 (now has hyd roller). The engine idled at 750 rpm, ran hard to 6500 rpm and made peak power at 5200 rpm (425 hp). Lots of torque too. Very easy engine to drive and decent vacuum. I even got 27 mpg on the highway with my 5 speed.

You really should look at the .200 numbers on your cams when you select them as the bigger the .200 number the better the power.

That cam has identical timing specs as the Bracket Master #00010 cam at .050. I just compared them in my Lunati catalog. The power range is from 2000-6000, with strong mid range torque.

Thanks for the replies. I also noticed the Lunati Bracket Master cam had similar specs and it has a good rpm range that will suit me. I do believe I should be happy with my choice.
Thanks again,
Joe