Whats your choice for hooking up to a 400hp 383 with 4:11's

the 200r4 might be better for you since its low gear isnt so deep

mine only has 3.42 and 1st can be kinda short at times EDIT: with a 700r4 I mean

Contact Art Carr http://www.cpttransmission.com/ and purchase a 200 4R Transmission. You will not have to shorten your driveshaft if you are replacing a 4 Speed, Powerglide or Turbo 350. You will only have to relocate your Crossmember. Then contact Herb Grabb at Shiftworks http://shiftworks.com/ so you can use your Stock Shifter.

Considering the 700-R4 is said to not be able to handle anything more than 450 hp and a 200-4R is the same length as a TH350, can accept Buick/Olds/Pontiac and Chevy engines, plus are known to live behind 10 second turbocharged Buick Regals/Grand Nationals....I think I'd go 200-4R and not look back.

I have the same combo 388, 411 posi, 2004r. The mileage is great, doesn't shift as hard as the turbo 350 did, put with the deeper 1st and the 2500 stall it is quicker. Its supposed to be good to 450hp. So far so good.

I run a 700 that I got for a case of beer. Friend of friend bought a new goodwrench 700R4 for his 92 Suburb, installed it, and it made funny noises, so he brought it in to the shop. GM covered a new one under over the counter warranty, but he had to bring it in, so he ended up giving them an '87 700R4 core instead of his. I gave him a case of beer for it (he refused, but I left it on the back step), and had mine hopped up w/better servo, lockup control, etc. Absolutely no problems after 3 years.

go with the 200r, won't have to shorten the driveshaft . Might want to get in touch with jakeshoe about a trans.

I would like to hear some more opnions on this debate.

I have read a few places that the 700 R4 is the stronger trans.

Corvettes had 700R4
Grand Nationals had 200R4


Which is cheaper to rebuild?
Which weighs less?
efficancy? (how a turbo 400 will be less efficant than a 350 with the same motor)

700 1st gear 3.06 4th gear .70
200 1st gear 2.74 4th gear .67

In a 700 there is big gear jump between 1st and 2nd 3.06 - 1.62, its hard to stop the drum with the 2-4 band with large torque engines plus the difference in gear ratios some lower hp engines will bog when they hit 2nd.

In a 200 the jump isn't as bad 1st and 2nd 2.74 - 1.57 not as critical in difference in gear ratios.

Price wise they are both about the same to overhaul
Weigh about the same

700 is marginally stronger in stock form. In built form the 700 doesn't compare IMO.

Simple math really. If you compare the 3-4 piston apply area of a 700-R4 with the direct (3rd gear, and used in 4th also) piston area of a dual fed 200-4R there is no comparison.
The 200-4R has more apply area, friction area, and a better method than the 700.

The 700 3-4 clutch is failure prone no matter who builds it, how they do so, or how much money you spend on it. I can put the fancy clutches in the 3-4, but I CANNOT overcome the GM design without completely redesigning the input drum, the 3 clutch packs it contains, and the front planetary gearset.

Then there are other issues in the 700 that haven't been addressed and that is because nobody wants to, if you fix the hard parts (input drum and shaft weaknesses) then the 3-4s are still going to fail.

The 700 is a very efficient design. The input drum being a large element containing 3 clutch packs creates an efficient package with a low drag planetary gearset. It has some good design features too, it is just limited in power capability.

200-4R has some weaknesses in stock form, they have all been addressed by the aftermarket and you can build an 800+ HP/TQ capable 200-4R.

700 is cheaper to build, 200 is a better unit at over 450 HP/TQ.

Above 600 HP/TQ I recommend a 4L80E. The 200 can be made to work above this power level but the 4L80E is more cost effective.

If you do go with a 700, you can also change the planetary to a 4L65E one which will cost you, but handle more power.

If you do go with a 700, you can also change the planetary to a 4L65E one which will cost you, but handle more power.

There's no issue with the 4 pinion planets.

The 5 pinion planets are just another way for some builders to take your money.

Contact Art Carr http://www.cpttransmission.com/ and purchase a 200 4R Transmission. You will not have to shorten your driveshaft if you are replacing a 4 Speed, Powerglide or Turbo 350. You will only have to relocate your Crossmember. Then contact Herb Grabb at Shiftworks http://shiftworks.com/ so you can use your Stock Shifter.


Second this. Art Carr is da man for 200 R4. He does them without the lockups and you can get a 400+ hp rated or even a 700+ hp and up. I was able to get a conversion kit from opgi for my ceter console shifter to.

Oh and make sure when you get one you let them know the rear diff gear ratios and how tall your tires are so you can get the right speedo gear.

There's no issue with the 4 pinion planets.

The 5 pinion planets are just another way for some builders to take your money.

They were the cure for a buddies 67 Camaro w/supercharged 350. The 4L65E uses a much stronger planetary w/an extra set of rollers in it. I am his partsman, and I certainly don't need to take his money.

Here it comes again...the "5 pinion is soo much stronger" debate despite no proof and numerous builders who have been through hundreds of trannys with zero failures of the 4 pinion due to stress. They occasionally fail due to improper lube, but I have seen more 5 pinions fail than 4. Besides, the 700 and 4l60/65 have will cook the clutches and puke up the input drum way before it gets around to busting the "weak" 4 pinion...

Here it comes again...the "5 pinion is soo much stronger" debate despite no proof and numerous builders who have been through hundreds of trannys with zero failures of the 4 pinion due to stress. They occasionally fail due to improper lube, but I have seen more 5 pinions fail than 4. Besides, the 700 and 4l60/65 have will cook the clutches and puke up the input drum way before it gets around to busting the "weak" 4 pinion...


Exactly.
I guess the "partsman" knows more than the trans builder.

I'm not saying I know more. I was just relating what was a solution to a problem and thinking that someone may also want to use this information.

Cut/paste from TCI site http://www.tciauto.com/Products/GM/gm_4L60E.asp :
Add an instant 25% increase in your planetary's torque capacity! These units will fit all 700R4 & 4L60E transmissions. Available for the front and rear. Great for the most severe-duty uses.

If I wanted to go with a 200R4, what cars/trucks should I be looking for a core? What years of trucks and cars did they come in from the factory?

If I wanted to go with a 200R4, what cars/trucks should I be looking for a core? What years of trucks and cars did they come in from the factory?


Kyle,
In a near stock application, any good trans shop could probably fix you up for a 200-4R.
If you want one for over about 350 HP though, I would just buy a complete unit from a reputable 200-4R vendor.

I really don't know of any in WA, and I used to live right up the road from you in Auburn or the other way in Lacey.

They can provide you with a core.

You can also build it yourself if you want to try that.

Most of the mid sized rear wheel drive cars from 81-88 or so used them. G body's like Regals, Cutlass's, Malibus and even some of the bigger cars like the B-body cars. Caddys and Delta 88s, etc.

I have a 69 Chevelle and I am in the process of building a 496. Im looking at 550- 575 hp and the same in torque. Everyone up here is sold on the 700R4, but from what I have read on TC, I am sold on the 200R4 for this application.

I am not into building my own trans since they literally confuse me, I wouldn't even want to get into one.

550-575 hp holy crap. Maybe a 4L80E.

Dave

550-575 hp holy crap. Maybe a 4L80E.

Dave

I was thinking about just building the TH400 that's in it to withstand the HP, however, with 4.11 gears, I don't think it will be much fun at highway speeds for long periods of time.

Well I would recommend usng neither, I run a 4L60E in my 01 Silvarado 5.3L supercharged engine makes around 420 hp according to Magnacharger and i`ve bust 5 of them in the last 2 years. 3 have died since this september and 2 of those were Art Carr, the first from Art Carr last 10 months the second only one week. Art Carr would only warranty the first one. I have now spent 6 grand on tranny`s since october of last year and I just got back last nite from New Mexico because my tranny died there, thats 550 miles from home. Maybe its just my bad luck but I can`t help feeling these tranny`s are a weak kneed piece of s--t. Every one of them has busted up and crunched gears, ive been thru 3 cases and not one tranny has ever overheated they have all died at 180-125 degrees.
Go with a standard or turbo 400.

Sid

Sid,
What is breaking in your 4L60E?

You are probably using Art Carr in Abilene?

I was thinking about just building the TH400 that's in it to withstand the HP, however, with 4.11 gears, I don't think it will be much fun at highway speeds for long periods of time.


it's going to cost you some money for an overdrive to hold up under that power. Jakeshoe has a website that you might want to check out as he has some info on different trans.

I was thinking about just building the TH400 that's in it to withstand the HP, however, with 4.11 gears, I don't think it will be much fun at highway speeds for long periods of time.

You could do this and then get a Gear Vendors overdrive for the tail shaft....just like Stacey David did on project Copperhead.

Does anybody know what donor cars came with 200r4s?.....

Does anybody know what donor cars came with 200r4s?.....

1984 and up G bodies (Cutlass, Monte Carlo, Regal, Grand Prix) for sure.

Also I believe in 1981 or 1982 they started using them in B body cars (Caprice/Impala, Dela 88/Regency 98, Bonneville/Parissienne and Electra/LeSabre).

Jake I am breaking sun gears and planetary gears, vain in the pump and a lot of other parts that I have no idea what they are. And ya I used Art Car in Abilene they great people but for me their tranny held up no better than any other, having said that I still believe that they know their stuff there. I think I`ll save up and swap to the 4L80E.

Sid

bump it

I have the same combo 388, 411 posi, 2004r. The mileage is great

If you do not mind... What is your MPG; city / HWY / Avg. ?

What shifter would one use on a car with factory floor shift PG to 200R4 swap?

Could something be stuffed in the factory center console?

Will the stock mechanical speedo work on the 200R4?

What shifter would one use on a car with factory floor shift PG to 200R4 swap?

Could something be stuffed in the factory center console?

Will the stock mechanical speedo work on the 200R4?


Shiftworks makes a nice kit to use the stock console and shifter.

Yes.

Does anybody know what donor cars came with 200r4s?.....

http://members.aol.com/powerrslid/thm2004r.html

any new ideas

I would def. go with a 2004r. And your best place for info and vendors would be turbobuick.com There's allot of good info over there. I recently put a built 2004r in my turbo buick w/trans brake and a 3500 converter. A guy by the name of Brian Hofer built it. < a very well known person on turbobuick.com

If your going to build it yourself I would try and locate a turbo buick or a monty carlo ss transmission for a core as the valve bodies are different/perferd. And if you do it yourself I would try ck transmission for their rebuild parts/kit.

Well I would recommend usng neither, I run a 4L60E in my 01 Silvarado 5.3L supercharged engine makes around 420 hp according to Magnacharger and i`ve bust 5 of them in the last 2 years. 3 have died since this september and 2 of those were Art Carr, the first from Art Carr last 10 months the second only one week. Art Carr would only warranty the first one. I have now spent 6 grand on tranny`s since october of last year and I just got back last nite from New Mexico because my tranny died there, thats 550 miles from home. Maybe its just my bad luck but I can`t help feeling these tranny`s are a weak kneed piece of s--t. Every one of them has busted up and crunched gears, ive been thru 3 cases and not one tranny has ever overheated they have all died at 180-125 degrees.
Go with a standard or turbo 400.

Sid
I was not recommending the Art Carr in Abilene, I was recommending the Art Carr of California Performance transmission in Huntington Beach, California

http://www.cpttransmission.com/

Whats your choice

200-4R all the way.

use neither they both suck the 700 is the same as the 4L60e I have trashed 3 of them since September with a super charged 5.3L makes about 425 HP. Two of these trannys were from Art Carr, he stood behind the first one but left me hangin on tranny number two and they aint cheap. Next time I will use a big boys tranny (4L80E).

Sid

Check out Bowtie Overdrives. They have a good site for info on both the 700 and the 200. They will give you the differences of their levels of transmissions. I have a 700R4 Stage 3 in my 70 convert with 3.50 gears being pushed by 575 HP and have had no problems at all. I did have to have an aluminum driveline built for it, but with anything over 450 HP it probably is a good idea. As the Trans Pro's posting replies know.. It is all in how you set up you trans from the start. (Pressure Readings and TV cable setting). It is time consuming but in the end well worth it. IMO