My 68 was running 12.7 at 108mph with a 406 sbc, then changed to a 505 to try to sneek into the 10s. Well, the first full throttle blast with the 505 made the trans completely let go when I hit about 5500rpm in second gear. Now 2nd slips with any throttle at all.

I am(was) running a 200r4 that I bought from Bowtie overdrives 2 years ago. I originaly called to buy a 700r4, but the owner talked me into a 200 and gave several examples of GSXs running in the 9s with the 200r4s. And before the 200, the 406 burned up a turbo 350. This is 2 transmissions now with only 2500 miles on the car.

Is any one having any luck with 700r4s behind 550 to 600 HP engines? I love the overdrive and really dont like the thought of going back to a 3 speed like the turbo 400.

What transmissions are you guys running in your high horse power street strip cars. I,m not completely against going to a manual trans. ?????? Now I'm not sure which way to go.

Th350 behind my 505 now, no full power passes at the track yet, TH400 will be behind it when/if it gives up.

I have a TH400 behind my motor.

California Performance Transmissions (The real Art Carr) can build you a 200-4R that will handle the power (very expensive though).

You should have got your 200-4R from the real Art Carr b/c they can be built to hold up under as high as 800 to 900 hp!!

I asked him directly for a price quote and he said no problem at my about 550hp/496 BB motor's level.

AND nobody/VERY FEW has/have gotten the 700-R4 to live much past 450/500hp RELIABLY!!! AND I'm talking SLICK TIRE RACING here!!!

pdq67

I run a billet 200 4R trans with my 496, which made 640 flywheel hp in its first iteration. I'm running a bigger cam now (no drag passes with new cam yet), and the 200 4R is still doing just fine - dragstrip or highway.

Bowtie OD is a nice enough shop, but CPT among others build stronger racing transmissions IMO. I'm pretty sure that none of the 9 second 200 4R transmissions are from BTO.

A built 700R4 would actually be a step backward from a proper 200 4R. Your confusion probably comes from the fact that in totally STOCK form a 700 is stronger than a 200 trans. In racing form the 200 has several design advantages over the 700.

Look in the transmission posting section. Search for 200 4R and Jakeshoe and you'll find plenty of interesting reading.

Thomas

Originally posted by pdq67:
You should have got your 200-4R from the real Art Carr b/c they can be built to hold up under as high as 800 to 900 hp!!

I asked him directly for a price quote and he said no problem at my about 550hp/496 BB motor's level.

AND nobody/VERY FEW has/have gotten the 700-R4 to live much past 450/500hp RELIABLY!!! AND I'm talking SLICK TIRE RACING here!!!

pdq67 Both my chevelle and my wifes camaro run the 700R's from BTO. I've run mine for almost 4 years with hundreds of qtr mile blasts. The quickest I've run is 11.10 and the camaro 10.90 I think if you set the tv cable correctly they will live...

Lee

Lee,

Please discuss this with Jake b/c I'm a stick guy that is just trying to keep up on this so that when my M-20 Muncie bites the dust I will be prepared to go with an automatic if I don't install my MOPAR A833 4-speed in my car.

And I'm not arguing with you at all and am really happy your 700-R4 has held up for you.

I'm mostly going by the old thread titled something like, "We will make this sucker live or else" that was about the 700-R4 behind a powerful motor and didn't live after several attempts.

Interesting reading on the 700-R4 if you want to look it up?

pdq67

Hehe, no experience here with 200 trannies, but I had a war story about a 700 tranny I though Id share. I dont think I ever mentioned my friends nova on here, but he had a street driven(almost daily) 72 that we threw together with mostly old parts and some new. On motor it ran 13 flat, but every weekend the thing got ran at the track on the juice in the 11.60's at 114mph. Either way, it ran for almost 3 seasons like that til the engine blew, not the tranny. Either way, the next logical step was a big block so now its in the 10's running a 427 and a glide. The 700 didnt run again behind the new big block just because it seemed as if its luck had to run out soon, so he didnt want to try it. The tranny is now sitting in the shop and he carved "Soldier" into the bellhousing cause the darn thing took such a beating for so long without ever giving signs of letting go. Id guarantee the motor was making over 400 ponies on the bottle and you know torque is up there enough on nitrous(150 shot was what it was running). Anyway, hes a tranny man for a living so he knows his stuff. I would say that just as Lee was saying, these trannes do have solid 11 second potential(the 700 tranny) in a street car if you put it together right. Back to the original point though, Id say you may be stretching it with such a large displacement engine with your horsepower estimate. Youd be safer with a good three speed or a properly built 200.

I researched and asked a bunch of questions before I changed to a 200r4 . I originaly was going to go with the 700, but several people finially convinced me the 200 had better strength when modified. Of course now the 200 would be an easy swap since that is what is in it now. It just scares me that my 200 failed on the first pass with the added horse power after working fine before with around 400HP. It was like the power just overcame the holding power of the clutchs and ripped the friction lining off of them.

I own a machine shop and build high performance and race engines in our area and use the performance of my street Camaro to help promote my shops street performance image and reputation. We already sponser the engine in a very quick(1/8 mile) race car.
So, I want my car very reliable. I live and breath engines and have made a good living from them, but I have never had much intrest in transmissions, so I need reliable advice from experts and no shops in my area I've spoke with can/will modify a 200.

I accept that parts can fail when stressed, I just dont want to buy another 200r4 if there is a strong chance it will fail.

Thanks, Scott

Pics of the car and engine "restored 68 Camaro" here.....http://community.webshots.com/user/wsm9808

Scott,

Mike Kurtz in Houston should be able to get your 200 trans fixed up and live reliably.

I know of at least one member here (Wes Colby) that runs a Kurtz 200 tranny, as well as 2-3 others that are making some good power. I believe Wes' car makes right at 800 HP with an 8-71 blown 502 BBC.

http://bruteforcechevelle.freeservers.com/

Scott, it is not hard to find people who have blown up just about everything - especially when real power and drag racing is involved. You will also hear all sorts of opinions based on different peoples real life experiences - for that matter I've heard people complain the Chevys are junk, FWIW. When you go drag racing there is a good chance that parts will break.

Since the 200 was the first common auto OD trans you will find techs who remember throwing away a lot of these transmissions as junk - but that was before good high performance internal parts were available. Remember too that the Powerglide was long derided as the "Powerslide", etc. - but anymore a Powerglide based trans is THE choice for a lot of applications. Point is that you will have no problem finding people who haven't kept up with changes in parts and build technique. Of course, those techs who haven't kept up to date will not build certain transmissions for performance because they have no idea how to do it.

I have no idea what kind of build, or what hard parts were inside your 200 trans.

Without disassembly there is no way anyone here can tell you what failed - or if the internal components you have were the right ones for your power level. Mine has a billet input shaft and forward drum, and I upshift between 6,200 to 6,600 rpm. As mentioned, the TV cable setup is critical on both the 200 and 700 trans.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Thomas

One thing I would like to mention, if you have a big inch torquey big block you will need more line pressure and have it come in much sooner then a high winding small block even at light throttle. look at it this way, two exact cars one with a 600ft big block and one with a 400ftlb small block.. the BB will produce more torque at 1/4 then the small block, with that being said, the BB will require more line pressure at 1/4 throttle then the small block.

I had to make my own TV setup so that it was far more aggressive at light throttle. To allow full throttle now I had to add a spring to the cable end of the cable so that once the tv extended all the way the throttle was still able to progress until full throttle achieved.

I hope this make sense. The biggest complaint I've heard was burnt clutches not broken parts! All from not enough line pressure at light and moderate throttle on the street.

Lee

Lee, have you checked your actual line pressure? Any idea how line pressure should relate to engine torque? I'm using the BTO E-Z T.V. - they don't make one for a Holley Dominator, so I modded their King Demon kit. The nice part about the E-Z T.V. setup is that the feed rate is adjustable - can be more, or less, aggressive at part throttle depending on what you need.

Thomas

Sounds like the 2nd band let go...

One of the weaker areas but using an Alto Wide Eagle Red band, Super Servo, good line pressure, properly working TV system, and on your application I would block the 1-2 accumulator, and use a deep pan.

I went through a couple of 200's when I was into my Buick GN phase of life. Hop on the Turbobuicks.com website and see if there is someone near you that can put one together for you. Not many are able to do it. The last 200 I did I put all kevlar clutches in it and I never had to go back into it but I also sold the car shortly after doing this. I ran 1.50 60ft. times consistently so it got plenty of abuse. The other option is a 4L60E but that will break the bank. Art Carr can do that one for you too.

John Weaver

I just checked out Art Carrs site. I didnt realize they were in Abiline Texas. That is only 120 miles from me. And we will be going through Abiline next Friday afternoon on the way to the lake. CPTs stuff looks really good too though. But, I go through Abiline a couple of dozen times a year so that could be helpful if I had any problems.

I've heard of problems with the Texas Art Carr. The real one is CPT.

what Jim said. Art Carr's shop is in California, those other guys bought the rights to use his name some time back and are not well thought of by many.

Tom

are you sure you didn't pooch the TV cable adjustment when you installed your 505? different manifold, carb or bracket? I'd be for checking into that very carefully.

Tom

Yea, I'm pretty sure on the cable setting. I use the EZ-TV from BTO set forward in the more agressive setting and I use a pressure gauge and set the cable to where the pressure hits as soon as you open the throttle as per BTOs instuctions.

Thanks for all the help and replies so far.

kamero68 - I actually set mine to have a little more pressure at idle then called for. If you go too much you get a harsh downshift. I set mine so that the downshift is bearable. I dont exeactly remember the numbers right now but 95-100lbs at idle seems correct. The draw back to raised pressure numbers is pump wear, I did install a 13 vane pump too.

Lee

I have a Performance Transmission from Bruce Tolle in Sacramento CA but I beleive Mike Kurtz uses the same billet parts in his trannies. I am hitting mine with 600+HP and TQ. The only issue was throwing the governor spring while winding up to 6700RPM in third on a chaysis dyno. The only cost to fix was new tranny fluid and the pan was remarkably clean with 2000+ miles and about 100 quarter mile runs and too many burn outs to count!

Simple, Do you want to dilly dally all season again? GO TO ART, spend the money or chance loosing it to a bottle fead VW,. graemlins/clonk.gif