Just shopping for heads and I was wondering about the Jeg's 197cc heads for my 400 build up. I looked at Edelbrocks but 170 seems small except the E-tec which has 200cc.

I also like the looks of Trick Flow and AFR. What heads would you guys lean to? Looking for 10:1 and 425 HP turning 6500 or so. Not sure of what cam but a solid roller is in mind.

They are Canfield heads and as such they are a very good choice.
The AFR`s are hard to beat but more $$ and you`ll more than likely have to wait to get them.
The CNC chamber Can`s are $1070 from Herberts.

I just got a pair of world Iron 2.02/1.60 170s. I'll let you know when I get it running.

If you want to see what can be done with them, look at www.webshots.com (http://www.webshots.com) under the listing oldanimotorsports (all one word when you enter it). I have a set of the Canfields from when they first came out in the mid 90's and did the porting shown in the photos myself. They are a very nice cylinder head, and these ended up flowing 305 on the intake side with only a 210cc port volume. I think they were only like $600 or so when I bought the pair of bare heads back then.

They look like nice heads. So Jeg's brand heads are Canfields?

dont buy from herbert, they are sent to him bare and he does a crappy job of building them. my freind bought his from them and the machine shop had to go back and fix all the installed heights on the springs. but the heads performed very well making 482 hp at 5500 rpm and 474 ft lbs at 4500 rpm with a very nice flat tourqe curve. this was a 10.4 :1 383 w/ a comp 230 at .050/.565 lift hyd. roller. topped of witha victer jr and a 750 hp holley

I bought a set on Oct 7. I installed them on a 350. Car now smoked at idle. I called John at Canfield and it was suggested that I double gasket the intake. I tryed it still smoked. Called John back with the info. he said it must be my engine(never used a drop of oil in the previous 20,000 miles)I disagreed with him and he suggested I send them to him not Jeg's so he could inspect them. i removed them and all the exhaust ports were full of oil. John said my engine must be badly worn and he woukd have UPS pick them up. One week later (after a call to Canfield) Ups called for the heads. It took multiple calls to get info from them and then I was told that nothing was wrong. During this time I purchased a GMPP 383. Canfield sent the heads back to me and I installed them on the new engine. Guess What!! still smoked. I contacted jeg's and explained this story. They said "Have you ever done a valve job on a set of heads and then the engine smoked?" Problem must be the engine. The first engine the heads where on is now in a different car with the original heads and no smoke. Jeg's and Canfield both during discussions attribute the problem either to my two engines or my ability to install these heads. Jeg's now have the heads as of yesterday so they can attempt to determine the problem. I told them that I did not really care what was wrong but I would like another set. I was told by Jeg's that they would not send another set until they were sure the heads were bad.Great customer service. The proper answer should have been Mr Spence we are sorry you have had all these problems and here is another set. I assured them after 5 sets of intake and 3 sets of head gaskets that it was the heads not me that had a problem. The point of this story is Canfields slogan of "Customer is King" stinks. They were no help and the owner John quit talking to me and had someone else take my calls and tell me storys.The guy Jeff at Jeg's we will see about I believe that he will refund my money or there will be a set of these heads on Ebay soon. Just my story

Wow, Making me re-think my head purchase. I had called Trick-Flow about their 195's and liked the performance and following they have in the 302 Mustang world.

Dart is in the picture but not sure where to buy from. I don't think World'd would be right I have read some bad info about them as well. Edelbrock's seem smallish at 170 except for the E-tec 200cc heads. What about the Victor heads by Edelbrock?

The reason I went with those heads was 64cc chamber,no special push rods or rocker arms and I would not have to change valve springs for my roller cam. They were a direct bolt on. The heads are quality. I spent some time thinking about it and I think looking at the heads the oil drain back holes are situated high up on the heads and factory heads,World products and Dart have the drain back holes located much lower and in a valley. I run a little higher oil pressure than stock and I think the oil puddled to high and leakage through the valve giude was the cause. Only exhausts were a problem maybe because the guide has more clearence due to heat on the valve. I don't know. If Jeg's figures something out I will post it.

would you really put a junk set of heads on E-Bay so they become somone elses problem??? Thats not too cool

I had to think through the same process with my pos bill mitchell 427. I could have just put it on ebay, taken a 25% hit on price (maybe a bit more) and passed the punchbowl (complete with floating "harcore racing" t**d) on to someone else. In the final analysis, it just wasn't right. I (actually, G&G) tore the damn thing down and rebuilt it right.

Gotta get my website up soon because there are a LOT of things I've learned over my years and through this process of dealing with mulitple entities all saying it's your fault that their crap smells. The things I've done may get you your money back, may save one or many people from making the same mistake, and may cost the vendor(s) tens of thousands of dollars by the time you're done running them through all the state and federal regulatory drills available to you. Just think of it as everytime they get an inquiry, they're probably too stupid to craft an answer so off it goes to the attorney for a $150/hr looksee.

At first, I was gonna dedicate a site to crappy crate motors, but the more I dig into this industry, the more I find this rampant "I got your money so **** off" attitude. This industry is prime for a major roto rooter job. Seems a lot of these guys fly just under the regulatory radar and their typical customer does not have the spare change to take, let alone sustain legal action when they get screwed. Now, the "vendors" I've tangled with say it goes both ways. They ship stuff out and never get paid, or they take returns when they know it was the customer's fault, blah, blah, blah. Bill mitchell accused me of plotting my whole engine problem situiation as a scheme to bilk the insurance company out of $4K. Now, I'm not saying $4K is chump change, but I get a weekly return of $4K on my worst investements - I don't need $4K. What I need is what was ADVERTISED.

The single point of fact is the transaction starts with a VENDOR advertising their product, in all its wonderment and superiority, for sale to include some combination of parts and service. 9 out of 10 include some b.s. warranty in which they can't be held liable for - hell, make something up - and people just believe them. They CAN be held liable for a lot of things - some of them can become criminal claims if you push hard enough. But then the customer calms down or gets sidetracked by all the delay tactics and the car is running again and the vendor skates on another one.....

Anyway, if I've learned anything it's "buy bare" and get to be good buds with good local machine shop/engine builder. The trick 3-angle valve job that was supposed to be on my motown lite 220's (came with the "hardcore" motor) was actually more like a 1.5 angle job done by my 98 year old grandmother. Needless to say, G&G Performance that rebuilt the motor put the proper 3-angle on it.

If the hi-tech industry wasn't so hot again, I think I would probably become a customer advocate fulltime. Too many people getting screwed and too many ways for fingers to be pointed - pisses me off.

There are good vendors out there, but way outnumbered by the bad ones. Out of the whole "harcore" situation, the only vendor that stepped up was Milodon - brand new FREE oil pan, gasket, hv pump, shaft, pickup, and a reinforced timing cover just for good measure.

Short version - don't be buyin' any of those pre-builts from WP either. Just get a bare set and go to town.

Best,

I'm not an engine builder, but I had good luck with a worked over set of GM Fast Burns. I had a local builder port my fast burns. He installed a 2.055 intake and a 1.6 exhaust, porting opened the intakes to about 218 cc. The 350 made 490 bhp @ 6100 rpm 460 tq @ 4900. The combo runs on pump gas with a GM dual plane intake on top. The builder says my heads have the potential to support 550 hp.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mikehartwell:

get to be good buds with good local machine shop/engine builder.

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