I read with great interest this build up because it was very close to my build up. he built a 454 bored it out to 475 inches. used the KB #207 hyper pistons and bolted on stock nonported 049 heads. camshaft is the much malighned Xtreme energy 274H. they tested a victor junior with a holley 1000 4150 based carb and found it was down over the oval port air gap. heads were cc'd at 122cc and comp. ratio was measured at 9.4-1. the engine made 540 foot pounds at 38000 rpm and 480 hp at 5000 rpm.this was with the air gap.
he makes some comments in the article that didn't make any sense to me about carburation. i always thought a 750 dp was a pretty good setup on a low rpm 454. he claims that it is way too small and likes to see at least a 950 1050 cfm carb and feels that even a properly setup dominator would be right for this engine. he used a swap meet 1000 4150 carb for this engine.
in the end he bolted on a team G single plane intake and picked up 28 hp at a low 5200 rpm. it seems to me that perhaps the team g might be a better intake even on an engine shifted at 6000 rpm in this combo. i notice that on my car it pulls great to 5500 then lays down. i have a C-396 intake and stock 750 dp carb.
my combo is the same except i'm running an estimated 10.2-10.5 comp. and 781 heads with 2.19-1.88 valves with minor bowl cleanup. i was going to order the air gap but i'm wondering if the 4150 team g might be a choice? it also seems my 750 dp is too small even with the K&N substack. i really don't want to spend the $ on a hp 950 or 1000 carb. would the proform main body($99) come close to the hp 950? my car has a 10" 3200 stall and 4.10 gears. thanx mike

I have an 850 annular booster DP that might do the trick for you. It was a bit too big for my 355. It has holes in the throttle blades (for large cam use) and the choke horn has been milled off (has a stub stack). Email me if you are interested.

ratuned, is that article posted on the PHR site? I checked it and couldn't find the one you mentioned. I was considering using that same oval Team G intake and a set of #049's.

I wouldnt want to run 4.10 gears with a tow truck motor that peaks at 5000 rpm.

the article is in last and this months issue of popular hot rodding. mike

Ratuned -I'm wondering about this myself...

I've got a 454HO with a 750DP which was pulling 4-5" of vaccum at WOT. About 17" at idle. This is basically a stock motor w/a tiny cam. If this appears to need more carb, then I'm sure you need alot more.

I wonder how that motor would perform in a 4000 lb. Chevelle with decent hook and 3.73's..not much different then my motor other than a slightly bigger cam

Originally posted by ratuned:
the article is in last and this months issue of popular hot rodding. mike Mike,
I just looked at the article & I don't believe they tested the Weiand from the way it is written,
The way I read it they are making the assumption it will gain 28HP from previous testing with a different combo not that it did.
Very misleading info in my opinion,,

And am I the only one who wants to call BS on the $1900 price they claimed?

DF

-Freiburger, i havent read the article but i doubt anyone built a running B/B for $1,900 bucks.

Originally posted by Nickel333:
-Freiburger, i havent read the article but i doubt anyone built a running B/B for $1,900 bucks. ..I built mine for $2500 and that included a $300 core and $125 heads,so mine would be $2075

I could even build it cheaper,without sacrificing reliability.
Think about it,just condtion as needed,say a valve job and the appropriate valve springs to match your cam.No hardened seats,etc.
Buy either KB or Speed Pro hypers,plus your standard shortblock recondtioning.Pick your hydraulic or solid flat tappet cam of choice
No roller rockers,no crazy oil pans,etc. You get the picture.


So,why would you doubt it?

I was looking at that article the other day and noticed that the torque and hp graphs was pretty strange, the curves didn't cross at 5252 rpm like they should?
The article did say that they were having dyno problems so maybe they got bad numbers.

Jeff
65 Chevelle

Freiburgur,

You aren't the Editor of HR Mag. are you??

Just curious is all??

pdq67

Names spelled the same is all sorta deal...

The one and only...

Originally posted by pdq67:
Freiburgur,

You aren't the Editor of HR Mag. are you??

Just curious is all??

pdq67

Names spelled the same is all sorta deal... Profile says Editor, Hot Rod Magazine - hmmm...

can this article be found online somewhere??

Originally posted by Jeff65SS:
I was looking at that article the other day and noticed that the torque and hp graphs was pretty strange, the curves didn't cross at 5252 rpm like they should?
The article did say that they were having dyno problems so maybe they got bad numbers.
They do cross at 5252, but they had the hp/tq scales shifted different for each curve. They look to be both about 460 at that rpm, so a normal graph would have them cross like you'd expect. smile.gif

The reason i doubt it is because ive built a few motors before, and even if you did a total stock rebuild CORRECTLY it might be would be more than 1,900 bucks. You figure around 800 for machine work to the block, a few hundred in the heads for a valve job etc. So you get your rods gone through and resized with ARP bolts in them, at least 100 bucks, crank gets turned .010/.010 another 100 bucks. So lets say your at a consevitive 1200 bucks on machine work. Are you going to get pistons, rings, bearings, cam ,lifters, springs, retainers, keepers, pushrods, intake, carb, valve covers, air cleaner/filter, HEI distributer, plugs, wires, headers, and good gaskets, and lastly good fasteners for less than 700 bucks.....NOPE. And thats assuming you reuse your oil pan, waterpump, timing cover, rocker arms, valves, and your heads dont need more extensive work, ie. new guides or surfacing. Now im sure somone could throw a pile of **** together {not saying your motors junk} for dirt cheap but i wouldnt trust it. when somone actually adds up every receipt, its ALOT more than one thinks! The articles ive read about cheapo motors are allways somewhat decieving.

[ 02-11-2005, 07:18 PM: Message edited by: Dean ]

If any of you are interested, ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,


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[ 02-11-2005, 07:26 PM: Message edited by: Dean ]

My Bad graemlins/clonk.gif

When I glanced at the article the other day I didn't notice the seperate scale for torque!

Jeff

All the machine work was free in that article. The school is doing the project.

My 454 didn't cost that much to build but it's stock. :(

I don't figure "air cleaner/filter, HEI distributer, plugs, wires, headers" to be part of an engine build.

When I do an engine story I include every part we use and every labor cost. Sometimes I include special tools if they are required but are not common in every guy's toolbox. You also have to incllude spray paint, oil, RTV, etc. As a result, I fight hard to keep costs down, and stuff still comes out more expensive than you think. The average guy who claims "I built this car for $1500" does not include all the nickles and dimes. And if a magazine tells you "It was $1900 because the machine work was free," then that's BS because you, as a reader, do not get free machine work. I even included real prices for parts I already have, because I figure the average reader can look at the price list and deduct anything that he actually has in stock. Better to include everything and have a higher price than to skip a lot of parts and tell people a bogus price.

I'm going to write my next Car Craft editorial on this exact subject. Too many magazines lie about price, and it gives the rest of us a bad rap. For example, I just did a 350 Chevy that made 470hp and 430 lb-ft for about $2400 (haven't done all the math yet), and my price list will include every single nut and bolt. Some readers will think, "so what?" because they read in PHR that a totally fresh big-block is only $1900.

DF

I am never leaving alabama if block work costs 1200 bucks at other places!!! To have my 454 cleaned, magged, bored .060 with torque plates, mock-up 496 to cut zero deck and check clearances, install cam bearings and freeze plugs was right around 300.00. It took a couple months but fast work is usually not good and if it is good it is not cheap. Then having an internal balance with 3 pieces of heavy metal was 228.00. My shop is really into the unlimited roundy round stuff so it isn't unusual to see a few hipo engines in different stages of assembly which is a good sign to me when shopping for a machinist. I also try to buy as much from him as I can because eventhough he doesn't stock much around the shop, he can usually get right down there with the large mail order companies price wise and have my parts in a few days. Sorry for being long winded.
Caleb

i think if you shopped all the swap meets and scored the best deals you would have a tuff time building that motor for that much $. but i don't think it would be impossible. dave freiburger, what is your feelings on true dyno numbers. it seems as if a lot of people accuse all the magazine people of using generous dyno figures? is it just impossible to similulate real world conditions in a dyno cell? do you or anyone else feel that the numbers are accurate on this build up? i have never had an engine dyno'd and have no experience in this area. thanx mike

Sorry guy's, I VERY seldom check Profiles...

The name just stuck with me is all...

My bad...

pdq67

..I'll just quietly keep building my stuff :D

DF,
That is great and I agree, just hope your article gives you a reliable piece and doesn't have those "special swapmeet finds" in it that other articles do as well.

It plain costs money to build REAL HP (not happy dyno HP) that will last.