My friends SBC 355 just wiped 2 comp EX 274 during or after break in. I honestly don't know what happened. They put the supplied lube on all the lobes and lifters. Did the break in per the comp directions. Only had the outer springs on. Primed the motor so that oil was coming out of all the push rods. Engine started on the first start. From what I can tell the break in was textbook up until the lobe wiped.

I tried suggesting to him after the first cam died to try another grinder like Crane or Lunati. Has anyone else had a problem with this cam?

What did you use for lifters???

And was the core a P-55???

Did he use the thin red lube that cam with the cam?

I'm convinced that that stuff is junk.

I broke my Comp Cam in with the regular moly paste and no problems yet.

Dwayne

That's frustrating - not to mention expensive. Sorry to hear about your problems. I have been there and feel your pain.

CNC - what's the significance of the P-55?

Troy.

It's got nothing to to with lube or pre oiling or non-optimal ( stars in alignment ) breakins. They are manufacturers defects and poor quality control. The parts should be hardened to a certain specification, and obviously they are not. There is no way you should be able to destroy a hardened piece of steel in a matter of minutes unless you are running abrasive slurry through the oil passages.....

I have a theory; ( conspiracy theory :rolleyes: )

Troy
AN EP1/P-55 core is a performance core its harder then most cores and stronger and is a little bit more money but well worth it.

WWW.CNCBLOCKSNORTHEAST.COM (http://WWW.CNCBLOCKSNORTHEAST.COM)

Originally posted by TJC:
It's got nothing to to with lube or pre oiling or non-optimal ( stars in alignment ) breakins. They are manufacturers defects and poor quality control. The parts should be hardened to a certain specification, and obviously they are not. There is no way you should be able to destroy a hardened piece of steel in a matter of minutes unless you are running abrasive slurry through the oil passages.....

I have a theory; ( conspiracy theory :rolleyes: ) Just curious, do you use the red lube supplied with the Comp Cams?

Another vote here to throw away the red Comp lube, I wiped a cam out on that stuff, new cam (same cam) went in with crane lube (moly based)..

Where did you buy the cam? MAKE THEM REPLACE IT..


Scott

Well, if TWO cams have gone bad, there may be something wrong with his motor, too. What lobes went out? Were there any lifters tight in their bores?

Originally posted by New68SS:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by TJC:
It's got nothing to to with lube or pre oiling or non-optimal ( stars in alignment ) breakins. They are manufacturers defects and poor quality control. The parts should be hardened to a certain specification, and obviously they are not. There is no way you should be able to destroy a hardened piece of steel in a matter of minutes unless you are running abrasive slurry through the oil passages.....

I have a theory; ( conspiracy theory :rolleyes: ) Just curious, do you use the red lube supplied with the Comp Cams? </font>[/QUOTE]I have an old bottle of Crane moly lube. I've had it for 10 years or so...

Are companies using off shore steel in cores now as a cost cutting measure? It wouldn't surprise me to see a switch to lower priced stuff in todays competitive market.

Aaron,
We just finished fixing a Big Block that was in a car that one of our customers purchased. It wiped three lobes and was getting ready to get more of them. When we checked the cylinder heads, we found a set of springs set up with almost 180 lbs of seat pressure and close to 500 open ... basically roller cam springs. That is what killed the cam .. which happened to be a Crane, but it rally did not matter .. any flat tappet cam would have been killed with those spring pressures.
My point here is .. have the heads been properly assembled with springs that match the camshaft ? If the engine wiped two cams, I would have to start looking at another cause other than the cam.

Sorry about not being able to respond quicker.

I'll try and answer all the questions. #7 exhaust and # 8 intake were the lobes that wiped. We used the supplied lube that came with the cam. The lifters were supplied from comp as well. All the lifters slide up and down just like they’re supposed to.

The outer springs were a light spring and recommended by our local head guy.

I'm convinced at this point that it's a defect in the manufactures hardening process. I refuse to believe you have to order a special core just to get the cam to live past break in. The motor is a daily driver. I don't see why we need to put "race parts" in it just to get it to go to work and back?

I'm glad to hear it's not your cam, Aaron. Sorry about your friend. I, too, like the black moly EP paste on the lobes. You don't suppose there was coil bind or other interference problems (valve guide, slot on the rocker?). Unlike some other here, I've not had any problems with Comp cams (knocking on wood).

Was it the same lobes on both cams? This is an extreme long shot but what is the side clearance between the 7&8 rods. Perhaps there isn't enough oil being slung on the cam.

Hi Aarron, I have a friend that had the exact same experience with two Comp Cams, I'm sure there is a problem with the cams but they haven't admitted it yet.
Rich

Pat I'm happy it's not my cam as well. Don’t want to go there again ;) We looked at the possibility of coil blind, don't think that was the issue.

The first cam ate #8 intake and the second was the #7 exhaust. My friends and I are just hobbyist, so there is a chance we did something wrong. But I don't think that was the case this time.

I'm not trying to say that we know what we're doing and Comp doesn’t but there could be chance it wasn't hardened correctly. I've heard others say they had problems with the XE series. Oh well I guess it’s water under the bridge now.

Rich what cams did he have problems with?

what do you mean the "possibility of coil bind"

Was this and other clearances not checked?

using the recommended springs doesnt mean anything unless they come up to the recommended pressures when installed. If the installed height was different then what is spec for the spring, then the spring pressures are different high or low.

Installed height should be checked with a spring height micrometer, using the retainer, locks, valves and shims that you will actually use.

Use this installed height to test the spring in a spring pressure tester to see what the pressure Actually comes out to be.

check for coil bind and retainer to seal clearance. Always make sure the rocker arm geometry is correct.

check valve to piston clearances!!!

Also i find that it is an excellent idea to degree the cam to find the actual installed intake lobe centerline.

Make sure the lifters rotate freely and easily in the lifter bores.


For mine, i used Black moly lube on the lobes, and oil on the journals of the cam. I used black moly on the heals of the lifters, and oil on the cylinder of the lifter.

I used black moly on the tips of the pushrods.

I poured EOS over the valvetrain moments before the inital fire.

As well i pre-lubed the motor with a modified distributor housing, while stopping to turn the motor over by hand (with the coil disconnected) watching for oil to come out of EVERY pushrod.

I also double checked the lash to make sure it was to spec.

My BB ate two Comp XE cams.I went through all the proper break-in procedures both times.I was pissed to say the least.On the third time I went to a Lunati solid roller.Since then,no problems.

Well, here's my comp cams story.

I have my whole longblock assembled at a shop and i asked them to install a small Comp Cams cam in it. It's a 252/260 advertised cam. We took delivery of the engine and waited about 5 months before we finally installed it in my car. By this time any comp cams lube onthe lobes was long gone and the cam barely looked shiny. So we lubed up the lobes as best we could with a grease gun with hose extension, and put as much black moly as we could on the lobes with the cam still installed. We spun the engine around and tried to get as much of every lobe covered as we could. Then we loosened all the rocker arms and readjusted all the valves (first time for us doing ANY of this). Turned the motor over by hand (still on stand) as we checked all the valves. Then we buttoned the bottom end up and filled the pan with 30W oil and a bottle of EOS, also pour EOS all over the valvetrain. After that we buttoned up the intake and dropped the engine into the engine bay. Once we had it bolted in, we preoiled it with modified dist shaft and put the valve covers on after we saw oil out of ALL the pushrods. We then put the carb on and everything else. Put together all the ignition components.

Then we tried to fire it up, we cranked it A LOT and ended up being on the wrong stroke. Then cranked it a bunch after that til it fired up, 35 minute cam break in. Changed oil after 200 miles. Changed oil again at 500. Change oil again at 1000 and then again at 2000 miles. Two trips to the dragstrip for about 10 passes and 2500 miles later the cam is just fine (knock on wood).

So i guess something's up if veterans are wiping on first try starts and rookies' cams are living just fine after hard cranking before first fire.

You guys are scareing me!

I just installed a Competition Cams xs268....gonna fire it up today, hopefully everything goes okay!

we put the XE274H in my sons 355...its held up longer than the Crane or Lunati cam(knocking on wood) graemlins/clonk.gif , we just used higher priced "Lunati Micro Lube lifters" with Comps assembly lube.

Have the cam tested for hardness. Any heat treat or precision metal shop should be able to do it.

Tom

Brian- The motor and heads were done by Cope Brothers racing.

I was only there for the install of the cam and the break in

comp cams=crap. I've heard this same horror story over and over on several different boards I watch or participate in. The OVERWELMING number of these 'wiped cams' stories relate to comp cams...I say this with hesitation, too. I don't want to get involved with hype or hysteria, so I'm saying this with evidence. comp cams=crap.

Comp sells 10-20x more cams then anyone else also. Consequently they will have more bad press, deserved or not.

"comp cams=crap."

I wouldn't make a blanket statement like that.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Comp cheerleader and AM MOT currently using one of their cams in anything I'm running. My race car has a Lunati solid roller and my street cars currently have custom Bullet solids. (I prefer the Comp profiles when the application requires a hydraulic.)
But I HAVE run plenty of Comp's hydraulic, solid, and roller grinds over the last twenty years with NO failures. The only failure I've EVER had was with an Engle hydraulic and it was after 1100+ passes with high spring pressures.

Comp is using modern, aggresive ramps on alot of their hydraulic stuff and that means the cam may be a bit more finicky about breakin and maintenance than an old design cam with slow ramps. Couple that with the fact that they sell more cams than any 2 other companies, mostly to novice hobbyists, and the problems with lifter supply, and now you have all the makings of cam problems.

There may or may not be cam core heat treat issues, but I wouldn't discount the extent of lifter heat treat issues. With only one lifter supplier currently operating at a backlogged pace, I wouldn't doubt there's more than a few sets getting sent out with sub-marginal finishing.

When ***** breaks, there's always a reason. The trick is to objectively find the reason and correct it.

JMHO!

Randy

Get the cam treated...I think Nitride treated it was.

We did it and it was only $45. We did not check any clearances in my engine whatsoever (first time build..didn't really know), did not have the valves adjusted properly, or do a proper break-in. We lubed with lobes with the supplied black moly lube and primed the lifters, and got the engine in the car a week later and fired it up, or so we tried. Our valves were not adjusted and we cranked and cranked for minutes (with trying to adjust things inbetween) before we realized rockers were set too tight and we had no compression. Once we realized this we got it fired up but only ran it like 5 minutes at idle.

Engine works great ~10,000mi later.

The cam was a crane cam. My machinist recommended to do this cam treatment, and said the cam would last forever after it. I haven't done any engines but that one (350) but for it to live through what we did to it on break-in...either a great coincidence or the stuff really worked. Plus, cheap insurance if you can get it done in your area, and if it works...

Here is my Comp Cam Story

I had a 350 I swapped from my Nova to my s-10 blazer. When it was out I started making good money and lacked engine building knowledge so I went to my Summit racing book and went straight to the race section and started ordering parts. First I ordered a set of Dart Iron Eagle heads with 215cc runners and 2.08 intakes and 1.625 exhausts with double springs. I then called comp and said I needed a cam with a rumpity idle in a 350 they told me to get a XE274 so I did. I never touched the 20,000mile all stock bottom end and stabbed the cam in there and slapped on the heads. I also had an intake that was WAY to small. I stuck the Performer intake and 600 cfm carb on it and just started it up. Set the timing zinged it to 6500 a few times and finished bolting everything back together. I backed out of the drivway and first thing I did was a HUGE breakstand taking the engine to 6000+++. I just sold that engine off after 3 years and numerous drag strip passes. (I changed heads half way through to a set of aluminum ProAction 180's) The guy I sold it to tore the engine down because of a cracked block and the cam still looks perfect. I may have been lucky, but Comp does make some good stuff.