I was wondering if any of you can help me finalize my combo. I got my '71 Monte back in february (my first car) and knew nothing about cars whatsoever. Since then the car broke down, needed an engine replacement and I've learned what I think to be alot about cars, but I don't consider myself an expert so I am asking the experts from this site to help me pick out the "weak links" in my combo, or just things that could be changed. I'm open to any suggestions.

This all wil be going into an all steel '71 Monte Carlo, more or less 3800#. My plan for this car is to build the quickest ETing daily driver car I can on a limited budget, this car WILL be daily driven, but also I want to get the best ETs out of it that I can, see how far I can push it, you know. Car will see the strip very regularly. Engine is basically set in stone, already built dynoed, and will be shipped off to my house sometime this week. But here it is so you can compare it to everything else: http://www.speedomotive.com/454_to_506_budget_master.htm. I plan on putting 3.73 gears into my 12 bolt posi (don't know what my gears currently are). This is where I'm second guessing myself, the torque converter, I already have ordered through my engine builder the TCI breakaway 11" 2600-2800 stall converter. Since then I have heard some bad things about it, like it can be rough on the street and that it does not make any difference in ETs over a stock converter. Can anyone help me out here as to what a good performance converter is on the strip that is still good on the street and won't be too expensive. I don't know how to figure in the cam, gears and what not to pick out the ideal converter, so I don't know if I've made the right choice or not, just want to find the best one out there for my setup. Also, do the gears sound right, I have heard of people getting better ETs with less gear, is 3.73 too much, maybe it's not enough, my friends '66 velle runs 4.11s and feels fine on on the stret he says. And the transmission is the stock th350 that came with the S/B that was originally in the car. I am debating on buying a whole new trans or having that one built up. I hear that with a th350 I'll be able to get more power to the ground vs. a th400. I know I have posted about help for this combo before, and I hate to be annoying, but there are so many knowledgeable guys out there on this site, I know this is the place to ask.
Thanks again
-Aubrey

Aubrey,what are your ET goals?

Now that I'm off work I can finally reply. As for gearing 3.73 would probably be fine for a street/strip daily driver. Something to think about is the exhaust sound. If you're going to run Flowmasters, and you end up with 4.11s eventually YOU WILL get tired of listening it while doing 60 mph down the road... Especially if the exhaust ends at the rear end.

I've never run an 11" torque converter, I have a 10". I have a Transmission Specialties 28-3200 converter. I got mine off ebay. The sellers website is http://www.gofaststuff.com . He is selling them for $289, or he puts them on ebay for $229. Something else you should think about is gas mileage. You can run ( insert really fast ET here ) second runs all day long, but if you're only getting 3 miles per gallon... You're gonna get real poor, real fast :( ... Unless you happen to be rich, in which case go for it graemlins/thumbsup.gif . Or maybe think about getting a little beater car to drive once in a while, to save on gas. My 71 only gets ~7-10 mpg. Fortunately when I was in school, I only had to drive about 13 miles each way, but that didnt count driving to town for lunch almost everyday. So, the tighter the stall, the better the gas mileage.

As for transmissions... I will never use a TH400 because its heavy, and it takes around 90 HP to run. Where as a TH350 is lighter and takes about 40. A TH400 is stronger, but you can have the TH350 built up. and I'll bet there are people out here that will say they will never use a TH350. Its all a matter of opinion...

Thats all I have to say about that... ;)

I'm thinking your HP figures between a th400 and a th350 are slightly inflated :rolleyes: . Todd upgraded to the 400 and there was zero performance difference, he lost nothing. I am in the process of doing the same swap,and results may be posted soon,,,I've got two sundays left,weather permitting graemlins/thumbsup.gif

My goals are 11's, eventually low 11's with the kinks worked out. My real question is the torque converter, thats where I'm stuck. I called ATI today to have them pick me out a converter to match my combo, one that will work well for a daily driver, and still make good ETs, well it's on sale for ONLY $820.00, so much for them, they said I'd have to go up to the more expensive converter because of the 4.25" stroke. So anyone know of any good converter companies that will make a good converter for my combo? The engine was dynoed friday, made 598hp @ 6500rpms, 570lb/ft @ 4500 rpms. But I'm not rich, so money is a problem, I don't think I can afford more than $400ish max for a good converter. I don't know where I'd be better off either, 32 year old rebuilt th350, or new, more power consuming th400, I'm undecided there as well. Thanks for the responses, keep em' coming. I rely on this site for help in making descisions. smile.gif

Well not to be a ***** here but if your on a budget whyd you spend 500 or so dollars for your engine to get dynoed?

I did't, I had the entire engine built by a speed shop, and the dyno wasn't that much, they have a dyno there so I figured I'd have it dynoed after they finished building it, it actually was worth, it, they completed the engine, dynoed it, and it made 500 horsepower(alot less than it was supposed to make), so it was actually good I had it dynoed, they then upgraded the carb, ignition, and valve springs at no charge to me, they re-dynoed it (alos, no charge to me), and it makes near 600hp, so it's kinda good I had it dynoed. Trust me, I'm on a budget. I just wanna make sure I spent my money right.

Originally posted by aubreyt213:
So anyone know of any good converter companies that will make a good converter for my combo? I don't think I can afford more than $400ish max for a good converter. You can try PTC converters www.ptcrace.com (http://www.ptcrace.com)
or even Torco www.torcoconverters.com (http://www.torcoconverters.com)

Nice dyno #'s graemlins/thumbsup.gif
I'd go with 3.73's max,and with a 275/60 for tires.Run the TH400 too since I'm guessing you have a 496 with that stroke.

You might want to check into a BTE converter. I just bought a 10", but haven't got to try it out yet. It is supposed to foot brake 2500-2600, and flash around 3800. I did foot brake it twice to 3000 RPM in the grass though. So I am hoping that it will go close to that at the track. I am supposed to get to run it in a few weeks. I paid 370 dollars, and it had balloon plates.
http://www.bteracing.com.

I really need to get in this conversation, but can't at the moment due to time..


about 5 years back I also switched from a TH350 to a TH400 and lost nothing measureable

I have a Hughes TH400 through Summit - 3 years - the mid 11's then the low 11's and now mid to high 10's. Runs flawlessly.

Trans Specialties converter $450 - 2 years in the 11's. Now a 9" Trans Specialties 900 FT/lb converter $630...flash at 4000 to 4200...perfect street strip converter for my combination and likely yours too.

You cannot cut corners on a converter, it will only come back and bite you in the a$$ like a Bengal Tiger...No way to the TH350 !! you will need a moderately upgraded TH400 for reliability and insurance against ruining countless other parts.

Trust me when I say it will be better to park the car for another month or two or three and get parts that will stand up behind your mill then to have to park it indefinetely after a couple weeks awaiting a trans and converter replacement due to parts failure.

You would like my converter.

You said it all, Tom.
So many guys will spend a bazillion dollars on a killer motor combo then put the cheapest converter/trans/rear/suspension parts behind it because of "budget" reasons. Then it won't fall out of a tree and they get pi**ed at the engine guy for selling them a dog. It breaks parts and won't make three consistent passes. It then ends up parked in the grass behind the house and the motor parts are on E-bay.

Remember, all those parts behind the motor are the non-glamourous parts but they're the ones that make the COMBO run hard and live.

Randy

what tire combo are you planning to run ,,, slicks?????
Tom and i have almost the same kind of car as you do with a few exceptions here and there however we both run with slicks!!
and i back up the whole you need a th400 or you will kill the th350 and its reliability for daily use i killed 2 on the way to my current setup which is a rossler race th400
our cars are heavy and you cant put all that torque you are goin to have through a th350 it will eventually break if you are goin to drive the sh!t out of it
And you dont have to spend a trillion on your converter just do some research and careful looking and you can find yourself a deal!
good luck man and i am happy for you about finally gettin your motor!
bryan

Alright, good, I was leaning towards a new th400 for the most part for reliability like what Bryan and Tom said, I'm gonna go through with that. Theres a fully ready street/strip th400 that my engine builders have in stock brand new for $1,049, I think they said it's good for up to like 1000hp, might do that unless I can a better deal. For tires at the strip, I'm gonna get a set of slicks, on the street I run 275/70/r15 in the rear and 245/50/r15 in the front. Still confused with the stall though. Is bigger better?? I talked to my friend who owns a street/strip '66 chevelle and he says anywhere from 2400-3000, no more than that, I thought you picked out stall by where your cam STARTS making power, maybe I'm wrong, I don't know, thats why I posted. Tom, if a bigger stall is better and a 4000 stall like yours will work good with my daily driver combo and still help produce the way yours does when racing then I will do something like that, I just thought anything higher than about 2800-3000ish would be impossible for the street. I just want the best ETs from the converter while still being able to drive daily. Thanks for all the help, this has definetely been the most difficult thing throughout this whole huge project. I think I might have it figured soon once I get this converter right. I'm not trying to be cheap with the rest of my combo, I fully understand that when you buy an engine like this one you have to back it up with components of the same calibur, and these components are getting real expensive, so I'm trying to make sure I get the perfect converter, trans, etc. for my setup. Thanks for all the help so far.
-Aubrey

I just sold the car below earlier in the year, it ran mid 12's with a mild 402, 373 posi gear, 400 turbo and and the TCI 11 inch converter.

That TCI 11 inch was perfect for a driver! stalls about 2600 and very tight from the stop light. in an low buck deal, I highley recomend it! 2600 is about 1000rpm over stock and there IS a big difference!
http://home.swbell.net/kenladd/convertible.jpg

So what's better, a "low" stall (2400-2800) or a high stall (3500-4000)??? If I have like a 4000 stall does that mean if I'm driving at 45mph I'll be at around 4000 rpms?

You probably should go with a TH400, now that I see your engine. I think my HP #s probably were a little exagurated, I guess you shouldnt believe everything you read eh? Or what strange old people you've never met before tell you. To answer your question... with a 4000 stall, the car won't really start going untill around 4000. You were correct in saying that you should pick your stall according to where your cam starts making power.

So if you don't really go anywhere until around 4000 rpms with a 4000 stall why does it produce better ETs. As you can tell this is a confusing subjuect for me graemlins/clonk.gif If there will be a big difference in ETs from a 2800 stall and a 4000 stall and a 4000 stall can be driven on the road everyday without problems I'll go high stall,

On the matter of stall - it must first be understood that there is movement of the car below the rated stall speed, its just that the rpms below the stall speed are not being efficiently used.

The general idea of why a higher stall converter makes any given car quicker at the track has to do with quickly allowing the engine to rev up to the fat part of its powerband which allows for harder acceleration.

I have driven cars on the street with stalls into the low 4,000+ range. Definitely soggy in acceleration response at lower rpms. But man what a difference when the revs spool up smile.gif . The higher the stall, the bigger the trans cooler will be needed - higher stall = higher heat generation at lower rpms (remember the efficiency is lower in the rpms below the stall).

Thomas

well said thomas i was goin to say that the convertor puts the motor right in the powerband like on a dirt bike and maybe a trans guy will correct me that you want your stall rating just below the PEAK torque rating... however you plan to street this so i would go 1 step down from that prob a 3500-3800 somthing like that, cause it wont heat the trans up all that much unlike a 4500 or bigger
fyi i run a 4500 9.5 inch billet torco in my car and i have a semi large cooler in the car and my trans even in the heat of summer and transbrake blah blah never sees 200 most of the time right at 150-60.. most people like the trans to be about 20-30 deg cooler than the radiator so keep that in mind
p.s. those street tires will NEVER hook graemlins/thumbsup.gif
you have some serious torque so get a short set of slicks like 26 inch to overcome the gear you have... IF you stay with that 3.73
bryan

Originally posted by aubreyt213:
I'm not trying to be cheap with the rest of my combo, I fully understand that when you buy an engine like this one you have to back it up with components of the same calibur, and these components are getting real expensive, so I'm trying to make sure I get the perfect converter, trans, etc. for my setup.
-Aubrey hey kiddo get use to it the faster you want to go the more money it takes!!!! :D graemlins/beers.gif
Just be thankful you arent married graemlins/hurray.gif graemlins/waving.gif

When you say soggy acceleration is it real bad because around here most driving will be 45-55 and under. If it's too much of a sacrifice I'll stay low. So let me see, a 2800ish stall would b best for street performance and acceleration at lower rpms, and a higher stall like 3800 is better for launching at higher rpms and improves ETs? I think I'm starting to understand! Now that I got the difference between the two I have to decide which one would be better for me, lol, seems like it's always sacrificing one thing for another, and when you find a median between the two, you're sacrificing a little of both sides. How much of a difference in ETs would I see between a 2400-2800 stall and a 3600-3800 stall? Thanks for your patience and responses! BTW, I'm going 3.73s, slicks and a th400 for sure now.

Back to back testing...2 years ago..

2800 stall - consistent 12.20's..
4200 stall - instantly 11.70's..

No other changes...PERIOD.

I cruise at exactly 65 mph at 3200 RPM..
55 mph is 2800 RPM.

Jason, what you said about converters is not necessarily true, What Thomas and Bryan said is more correct...my car moves right off idle.

My converter flashes at 4200 +/-...with a tighter converter this year I couldn't get faster than an 11.25....the previous converter was too tight and flashed at 3000. when I bolted in the current one I have 10.99 first pass.

You should see how important a converter is by these 2 examples.

Wow, thats a pretty big difference from the two converters. So 3500ish you think would be good or should I just say screw it and go all out to a 4000 stall? After I see the difference in your 1/4 mile times I don't think I'd wanna be lower than 3600 if it's still good for the street. After all this money, I'd like to see some 11's. Tom, what gears were you running when you made those passes. And was that on the 540 or the 468? Again, thanks for all the help, it takes patience to educate the stupid ones, lol graemlins/clonk.gif

ahh your not stupid just young :D :D
p.s. i am only 26 so graemlins/waving.gif
I have a 52 year old (crew chief) who is a friend of my dads who has been racing for 30+ years and i have learned a lot from him and he has learned a lot from me with the new technology and parts designs out there so we ALL are learning aubrey i am just happy we can help somone out there who has a fellow monte crush these chevelles graemlins/hurray.gif graemlins/hurray.gif
you, tom and i have all the potential to have 3 sub 11sec cars ( you just have to get that thing to hook!! :eek: )
and that was not a bash on ANY chevelle guys.. ya'll just have to realize our market and cars are not popular to most people so it is nice to see fellow guys want to push a 2 ton brick wall at 115+mph
Good luck and i want to see some pics when you get it and some http://www.geocities.com/igotta71@sbcglobal.net/smilies/burnout.gif !!!
bryan

The 12.20 and 11.70 passes were with 3.55 gears.
that was in a 468. Ran best of 11.401 with 3.55's and 11.36_ with 3.90's. I only made 4 passes with the 3.90's.

I would highly recommend the Trans Specialties converter I have They call it a MS for Medium Stall. It is 9.5" mechanical diode type (good for 925 ft lbs) and is tight enough on the street that it is no problem at all. Very nice to drive all things considered...$620. This is the 3rd different converter I have used from them and am very happy. it will probably flash around 3900 to 4k for you. It is considered a race converter, you will be overpowering the typical street/strip $200 to $400 converter now and need to up the ante.

Finally, my mind is made and I'm content! Thanks for the help, I'm gonna get the same one as you Tom, I trust you ;) , lol. Only problem is $620, I'll have to do without food for a while, oh well, if you lose weight it'll help your ETs right, lol, j/k. You're right about the converter though, even if I wanted the 2800 stall, it might not be possible, it'd probably just die out after a while, thats exactly what the guy at ATI said when I called them, they said that the engine would be too much for it with the 4.25" stroke and possiblity of nitrous later on and that I'd have to step up to their race converters too. At least it's all figured out now. Just ordered the th-400 trans today too, my car is spoiled. BTW thank you tom, and bryan for all the help and everyone else too that replyed.

Tom, is there a part number to the converter you ordered??

one thing you should never skimp on is the convertor. yes they are expensive for the good ones, but when you have 600+hp, you NEED a convertor that's set up for your car. just because it works great in some one else's car doesn't mean it's optimum for your car. ATI is expensive, but just remember that you get what you pay for when it comes hi-perf parts. ;)
i wouldn't pay $600 for a convertor just because it works in one guy's car. i'd rather pay the $800+ for the convertor that i know is going to be for my car's combo. you've got a very nice engine, don't handicap it over a few hundred dollars. when you've got thousands invested already, why take a shortcut now? smile.gif

Originally posted by m71:
one thing you should never skimp on is the convertor. yes they are expensive for the good ones, but when you have 600+hp, you NEED a convertor that's set up for your car. just because it works great in some one else's car doesn't mean it's optimum for your car. ATI is expensive, but just remember that you get what you pay for when it comes hi-perf parts. ;)
i wouldn't pay $600 for a convertor just because it works in one guy's car. i'd rather pay the $800+ for the convertor that i know is going to be for my car's combo. you've got a very nice engine, don't handicap it over a few hundred dollars. when you've got thousands invested already, why take a shortcut now? smile.gif What in the H_!! are you talking about?..Try Again..Where do you get off inferring that my combo is handicapped by using the converter I have. ATI is good, but not the only game in town...

Aubrey, Call Transmission Specialties and tell them about your combination, they will set you up with the right converter, it will be likely based
on their medium stall 9.5" version..Don't tell them what you want, tell them what you want to do. You will likely get a converter almost identical to mine.

http://www.transmission-specialties.com/

True, but me and him have a very similar setup, and the same car, I dont see where I could go wrong with a converter similar to his, if it's got a good reputation and theres otheres out there using TS converters and say they're quality for racing and street I figure it's better to go with something that's proven, not to chance it with some other company. I may not end up with the exact same one as his but one similar to it, after looking around for the right one for about a week straight, I pretty much got the stall down and my uses for it, etc. $800 is alot for a converter to me in any case, he's runnin more cubes, faster ets, obviously more power and his has held up fine for a year I think he said for $620, and he's layin down 10.78s in a 4,000# car, so I don't think it'll handicap me, lol. And I actually don't have the money for this :rolleyes: , I'm in debt for a long while now, but you gotta do what you gotta do right, engine dies, I want power, it's better to get it done with now, bite the bullet.

Tom Baird, for one thing i wasn't talking to you, dude. and another is that it doesn't matter if you pay $10,000 for a convertor or $600, if it isn't set up for the specific car it's handicapping it. that's all i meant by that. if they can make him a convertor specific for his combo then fine, but running the same part # that you are doesn't mean that he's going to get the most out of that convertor in his car. in which case i would rather pay a little more for the convertor to insure that i get one set up for my particular combo. i see guys make this mistake time and time and again, just trying to help keep him from doing the same. wasn't dissing you in any way, just trying to help him. lighten up! ;)

http://groups.msn.com/ChevyMonteCarlo/aubreys71monte.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=476

Hows this gonna affect my converter choice, I know I shouldn't get a 4000 stall if my power drops off at 5500 rpms right?

based on that dyno sheet, you should come over to my house and borrow my converter.

You want to be within a few hundred RPM lower than your peak torque. Some say the acceptable range is 0 to 300 below peak torque. I agree and as long as you are within that range you are good to go.

There is no real way to mathematically pick the absolute "perfect" converter stall for the range of temps and weather we race in especially in a street/strip application like our cars you don't want to get to loose. You can get very close using dyno pulls and track experiments and experience but unless your racing heads-up week to week and have to get every thousandth out of your vehicle every race under varying conditions. A close range is what you want to shoot for.

There are exceptions to this rule of course and many try a few converters and converter adjustments before it is exactly right. I personally loath converter swaps so R&R'ing a trans 6 times for perfecting a converter to get another couple thousandths you really can't prove it was due to the converter is not high on my priority list, I am bracket racing for God Sake.

with a 4200 stall and 3.42's it's nice crossing the stripe at a hair under 6000 RPM.

Trans Specialties let me try different converter setups..I wanted to get to the 10's with the tighest converter I could get with my wimpy 3.42's...so I asked for a tight HD converter that I wouldn't be worried about breaking. they gave me what I asked for but it was too tight, So I asked for one that was about 1000 to 1200 RPM looser and at NO Charge they sent me another converter so I could do the swap at the same time then ship the first one back..it was exactly what I wanted. I kind of thought the tight one would be too tight, but I had to try it.

They are a class act been around a long time and I know of MANY racers who use their parts. I believe Paul over there was with ATI for a long time, but I could be thinking of someone else if anybody knows please chime in.

i have to admit, based off of those dyno sheets, it looks like you need around a 4000 stall. do the hp numbers flatline at 5500rpms? 1300rpms between peak torque and peak hp seems like a narrow powerband for a an engine that big.

It's been 18 years since I drove an 11 second car on the street but I'll tell you what, a 4000 RPM converter is INSANE for a daily driven car.[And are you gonna shift it at 5500? Seems too close to me]

Geez the box will feel like it's filled with mush from traffic light to traffic light. It will be so loose you'll never feel the car shift. You'll feel like your driving around a big slushy one speed.....Lot's of sacrifices gonna drive you NUTS after the first summer if a REAL daily driver..IMHO.

Aubrey, friends don't let friends do Speed-O-Motive. Why? For starters that dyno sheet is wack on the hp correction factor. Simple science formula is (torque x rpm) divide by 5250 = horsepower. Short commentary: that engine doesn't make the power listed on that dyno sheet, its like 60 hp less on the top, and 25 hp less down low. And what is going on with that marker line through one column - what is under there?

L78 guy is correct about the mush feel of a 4,000 stall on the street. In normal cruising it will not feel powerful at all - plant the hammer from a standstill and the feeling is entirely different smile.gif

Thomas

Got a Trans Specialties converter in mine and it flashes to 5000 :eek: :eek: :eek: I tried a low stall and it wasnt loose enough, went right to a loose and it was the ticket for my combo...... I drive my car on the street everyday it's not raining or snowing.......Love my converter and it also picked me up a bunch at the track as Tom's did......I have a 411 gear and run a 29 inch tall tire and leave off idle......10.83 with a 60 ft of 1.519.......shifting at 5500..... graemlins/thumbsup.gif

L-78,

I absolutely hear what you are saying but it really isn't that bad. I could certainly drive mine every day but being a solid roller cam and I don't want to wake up my neighbors and my own kids every morning, no stereo and I have to admit the gas mileage, I choose not to.

I have to imagine but can't say for sure that converter technology has improved over the last 20 years maybe not a whole lot but it really isn't too bad.

I had a converter that flashed at 5300 +/- in my mid 11 second combination 2 years ago and that was awful on the street much like you are saying. It was out 5 days after it went in...I swapped for a 4200 10" lost 2 tenths temporarily but it was worth it. These were both Trans Specialties 10" converters, again no charge....I ran the 4200 for 2 years until I switched combos this year...I drove to work, too the track with that one too, kids soccer practice and it was fine.

Thomas,

That's interesting you say that about the mush feeling, I am not disputing it....but mine doesn't really feel like that at all...really :(

Tom this kind of mushey feeling....... :D :D

http://www.chevelles.com/showroom/blaauboer/scottburn1.jpg

Yeah, ...that kind of mushy feeling smile.gif

I'm suprised no one else is commenting on the Speed-O-Motive imaginative dyno printout.

Thomas

I don't know how old you Ballston Spa and Albany fellas are but if your my age [45] you remember my 11 second street car. I use to drive it to the NEBA nationals [from Pittsfield/Great Barrington]on Central Ave and spank you boys...A Butternut yellow 64 GTO with an L-88...Still have the engine 'zactly the way it was in a '67 Malibu. Except the car weighs 800 lbs more...the 4000 stall and the 4:88's are now a 2000 stall / 3:31 and the 11's are 12
:20 on dot's...now back to that 496 project......see you Wed. nites next year with the '67

Sounds great ......I'm 35 and you better bring your spanking paddle :eek: :eek: Because we are gonna be having some fun graemlins/beers.gif

I dont ever remember seeing your car before..........Scott.

No Scott, I'll bring my fanny pad...no way I want to run that monster of yours! Maybe in the old days... but not anymore![I'll run you on the Northway for top speed though.....]

Originally posted by L-78 GUY:
I don't know how old you Ballston Spa and Albany fellas are but if your my age [45] you remember my 11 second street car. I use to drive it to the NEBA nationals [from Pittsfield/Great Barrington]on Central Ave and spank you boys... Apparently you never called out Paul Pagliara`s "Golden Goose"... an absolutly mint, gorgeous 70 Chevelle SS (LS-6 original)Aztec gold with black stripes.
Maybe you came along sometime after, but for awhile Pauls car was the one to beat and He would have an 11 secound car covered easy ;)

Hey L-78, sounds like a blast..look forward to meeting you ! graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Aubrey, Cancel that engine, save yourself some future frustration. I wouldn't even want to hear SOM's excuse/reason for the rigged dyno sheet.

Thomas

''Apparently you never called out Paul Pagliara`s "Golden Goose"... an absolutly mint, gorgeous 70 Chevelle SS (LS-6 original)Aztec gold with black stripes.
Maybe you came along sometime after, but for awhile Pauls car was the one to beat and He would have an 11 secound car covered easy''

Nope don't remember him, Remember the Gearjammer Nova, Lynn in blue Monza [ffffast]Tony in 6 Pak GTX[ spanked him]... A guy in a GT-500..and a BUNCH of pretenders..I didn't have the fastest car...but I had the fastest car that drove 80 miles to get home...still gotta pick a cam for that 496...Harold where are you?

What color was the GT-500........

. :rolleyes: Sorry double post...

It was either Lemans blue or Jade green...I have two stuck in my memeory banks...I think it was the blue one. I do know it was fast and MINT!I remember it as a 427 not a 428 but I could be wrong....

The green one lives local to me........VERY SWEET car.......

Originally posted by blaauboer:
The green one lives local to me........VERY SWEET car....... Are you referring to John Barnes`s car?
I thought Johns was a GT 350!?

I'M not refering to John Barnes' car. His IS a GT-350. I use to own a 66 GT-350 and I met John thru owning that. Have you ever seen John's Shelby collection? Un freakin tastic!Why he even has a pair of ol' Carroll's underpants in a glass case in his basement! [among many other truly FABULOUS items] After seeing those I saw the error of my ways and sold the Shelby....them Shelby guys aren't regular folk..if you know what I mean...

Originally posted by Bomber '67:
Aubrey, Cancel that engine, save yourself some future frustration. I wouldn't even want to hear SOM's excuse/reason for the rigged dyno sheet.

Thomas Does anyone else see anything weird in the dyno?? Not an expert so I don't know what to look for. Bomber, do you have somehthing against S-O-M?? Or do you really thing this is a problem. How close are you from there? They're located in West Covina California, is there a way you could stop by, maybe check the engine out, see some dyno sheets or something, it would make my day smile.gif !

Aubrey, email me if you like. The nicest thing I can say about SOM is that their prices are low - which doesn't mean they are bad per se, just that the strongest performers generally don't come from the lowest bidder. Its kinda like the converter thing.

I gave the math formula for horsepower, just take a look at the dyno printout and tell me where any of those numbers make sense. Those are some of the strongest factored hp numbers I have ever seen.

I'm less than an hour away from their shop, but my schedule will keep me away from that part of town for almost two weeks during business hours. I'm not sure that if I showed up that they would want me third basing their work. Really, I hope that you receive what you have paid for and that it runs terrific.

Thomas

Aubrey,

As Bomber mentioned something is screwy with the Dyno Sheet....Here is some Info on the Dyno Sheet. I took all the numbers and tabulated them. I then made a line chart in Excel, then I used the HP formula....HP = RPM X Torque / 5252 to dtermine the true HP based on the Torque. I had to assume something was correct and I chose the Torque..

Using the Torque Numbers the spreadsheet calculated the HP numbers based on the formula. I then compared them to the HP numbers from the dyno sheet. And the results show that the HP numbers on the dyno sheet are EXACTLY inflated by 10.4 % for EVERY RPM shown on the dyno sheet.

Examples:

3000 RPM...Torque = 523.6, ACTUAL HP = 299.1
The DYNO Sheet reads - 333.8

4000 RPM...Torque = 568.6, ACTUAL HP = 433.1
The DYNO Sheet reads - 483.3

5000 RPM...Torque = 553.0, ACTUAL HP = 526.5
The DYNO Sheet reads - 587.5

The Dyno Sheet is rigged to read 10.4% more HP than it really is..

Shame on them.

http://www.boomspeed.com/mc71454/aubrey.jpg

uh oh i smell bullsh!t :eek: :eek:
i hope he is not locked in tight :mad:
that pisses me off that a company which if i recall dynoed the motor once and told him it did not make enough so they :rolleyes: modified it :rolleyes: and then they go and lie about the figures to take advantage of a kid who doesnt know any better!! graemlins/angry.gif What a crock of sh!@ i would demand my deposit or money or damn at least a fair dyno sheet graemlins/sad.gif graemlins/sad.gif
bryan

That is DOWNRIGH BULLSHEIT!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:

Since it hasn't bean shipped and you haven't picked it up yet,
call their bluff tell them what has bean found.
Be aware they will have an excuse of some sort.

Don't be an a$$ when you do it,but don't be real nice either.

Here is a thought...

Since Speed blatantly lied to you,
see if they will give you a discount on a package that a few of these knowledgeable big block people who post here come up with.

Ya know,a combo that will REALLY make close to 600HP.

If that doesn't work,

DEMAND YOUR MONEY BACK BECAUSE OF FALSE ADVERTISEMENT!!!

Cancelling the order, today is day 114, pretty big shame I waited this long to cancel my deal, well whos knows how much longer I'll have to wait now. Anyone have any ideas where I could go, building it from scratch myself won't do, there's no one around my area that can help me, and being 15 only a few months from 16 I'm gonna need to be driving soon. I still want a 600hp daily driver big block, not giving up on the dream. Crate engine, anyone know of any trustworthy builders (even though I doubt I'll do that)?? The BSE formula sounds real good right now.

Bummer on the engine,I don't know if you would be interested but I have a 402 in the garage,ran 12.0s in my car has about 80 1/8 passes and 1k miles on it carb to pan $1500.It might get you running until you get a new plan.It's no 496 and probably way short of 600 hp.It is a good running mill with about 4k in reciepts.Just let me know if you are interested.I am going to the snowbird nationals in Bradenton,Dec 5-7 I will probably race the 5th and maybe the 6th,come on by lots of cool cars and lots of parts for sale.

Hmm, that's a thought, definetely considering it. Once I figure out how long before my "big" engine is here and how much money there is to be spent I'll let you know. And you're only a few hours north of me so it won't be hard. By the way, gonna try real hard to make it on one of those days, will you be there all 3 days? I'd like to talk to you. Aren't you the one that one the bracket at the super chvey show with the '70 Chevelle?

Yep, that's me I will definately be there fri. and most likely saturday,I know the kids like to watch the night of fire.I can say with the utmost probability I will have the only orange 70 chevelle there.

Why dont you want to build your own? I built my first "real" motor this spring with the advice and help of a good friend. Youll save ALOT of money,learn more than you ever thought you would and then you can say you built it yourself. Just find some good gear head friends to help you out and take it 1 part at a time, dont rush yourself and if you feel unsure about somthing, ask as many questions as you have to until you feel confident. Also as far as parts go. Doug herbert has a 496 kit with 4340 rods/crank and SRP's with rings and bearings for $1879 bucks, find yourself a block have it machined, and put it together. that right there would save you TONS and youde have your shortblock for $2500 bucks instead of $4500. Thats enough savings to pay for some AFR {or whatever} heads. Thats my suggestion.

I would LOVE to build my own engine, but I'm trying to catch up in school at home enough so that I can go to vocational school in a few months when I'm 16 and get a mechanic's license and soon I'm supposed to start working as an apprentice to someone who does bodywork on older cars. There isn't much time and on top of it I know no one in my area who knows enough about cars that can help me and nobody has the time anyway. I think I have enough knowledge to do it, but ont the time, and I don't want to chance screwing anything up. By the way, Pat, you have e-mail, and my fingers are crossed, if you don't like what you see, we can change the "deal" around if you want.

I got it, I will send you a reply tonight.I am at work and the computer here is really acting goofy,I suspect it has some kind of infestation,and I don't want to kill your computer too.Hopefully be home by 10ish.I would look into a setup like Tom's(MC 71454) for a daily driver,but most likely will kill your budget.I keep telling the boss,the next engine will be a 540 so I can run a/c and still click off low 10s :D and she says back porch with hot tub and pool,I think I will lose the battle,with the kids I am out voted 3 to 1 :mad: I would think something like a 496 with a hydraulic roller and some 3.4x gears and a good convertor would get the job done.With the daily driver thing, it is all about what you are willing to put up with.I drove mine to work today 37 miles each way, and with the 4.11s it would just be annoying to do everyday,but for a weekend cruiser it is not a problem.I would say there are several ways to get it done.

Does this mean you're saying yes to the e-mail??? If so when you e-mail me back I will be online(probably online just about all night like I usually am, researching car stuff), I'll let you know my boundaries as far as money and stuff.

aubrey213...If I can help let me know. I`m in Pt St Lucie.

Well, if you have the time and Pat doesn't you'll be getting the same question in your e-mail too. Are you an experienced engine builder?? :D :D Your pushing a 4000lbs+ Biscayne across at mid-11 second times, thats convincing enough.

Pat, you get home yet, I've been waiting for that e-mail of your to come, anxious to hear what you have to say about it smile.gif

Originally posted by mc71454:
with a 4200 stall and 3.42's it's nice crossing the stripe at a hair under 6000 RPM.

Trans Specialties let me try different converter setups..I wanted to get to the 10's with the tighest converter I could get with my wimpy 3.42's...so I asked for a tight HD converter that I wouldn't be worried about breaking. they gave me what I asked for but it was too tight, So I asked for one that was about 1000 to 1200 RPM looser and at NO Charge they sent me another converter so I could do the swap at the same time then ship the first one back..it was exactly what I wanted. I kind of thought the tight one would be too tight, but I had to try it.

They are a class act been around a long time and I know of MANY racers who use their parts. I believe Paul over there was with ATI for a long time, but I could be thinking of someone else if anybody knows please chime in. Digging up an old post.

Hey Tom, is your converter flashing to 4200 at launch? What RPM are you shifting at?

I ask because I was only looking to get a 3500 for street manners alone. Sounds like your 4200 is very liveable on the street.

My last concern with having a converter that flashes at 4200 is it blowing the 26/10.5/15 slicks away on my little 3000 lbs Z car.

Here's the combo as its planned so far:

SBC 406

Here are some minor details:

-SBC 400, 2 bolt block, 0.020" overbore (4.145"). Converted to 4 bolt w/billet steel splayed main caps
-ARP main studs will be used on all inter holes
-Dart Aluminum Pro 1 215cc heads w/2.08/1.65" SS valves
-ARP Head Studs
-SCAT 4340 Forged Steel 3.75" stroke w/400 mains
-SCAT 6.0" 4340 H-Beam rods
-SRP Forged Pistons, 10.5-11.0:1 compression
-Lunati Solid Flat Tappet Cam: .550/.550" lift, 283/283 adv dur, 255/255dur@0.050", 108 LSA
-Edelbrock Victor Jr. Intake Manifold
-Holley 750 cfm double pumper (tuned and choke horn milled off)
-Block Hugger 1 5/8" Ceramic Coated Headers
-TH350 or TH400
-3.69 Rear Gears w/Posi
-26/10.5/15 Hoosier QT's
-2800-3000 race weight without me (another 300lbs)

I might switch to long tube 1.75" S&S headers at the same time to gain max power