Well - this one gonna' stir a few responses: I have a nice 1965 Chevelle SS from Ca - and it was built at the Fremont plant. I have some of the parts to build a Z-16...repop rear diecast, air cleaner, remote mirror, etc. I also have a good collection of NOS parts to restore the car. It's a rust free body with a 283 and PG. Here is the question...how correct should I try to make this? I am pretty sure that I have the ability to make a 99.9% correct car, but it could create a problem someday as someone could try to pass it as a real one...especially if I found a Kansas City donor car built in March or April of 1965 for the tags. I could also locate a correct 962 block and 208 heads, AM-FM, bell housing, build a 12 bolt out of the one Chevelle one that I have along with a 1965 Impala 12 bolt....you get the drift....I could just make it cosmetic with the outside trim and use a late model crate engine, or maybe find a 961 block and round port heads to get it closer. I would not try to ever pass it as a real one, but you can't control a future owner...so how far should someone go on this? Thanks in advance....

Well - this one gonna' stir a few responses: I have a nice 1965 Chevelle SS from Ca - and it was built at the Fremont plant. I have some of the parts to build a Z-16...repop rear diecast, air cleaner, remote mirror, etc. I also have a good collection of NOS parts to restore the car. It's a rust free body with a 283 and PG. Here is the question...how correct should I try to make this? I am pretty sure that I have the ability to make a 99.9% correct car, but it could create a problem someday as someone could try to pass it as a real one...especially if I found a Kansas City donor car built in March or April of 1965 for the tags. I could also locate a correct 962 block and 208 heads, AM-FM, bell housing, build a 12 bolt out of the one Chevelle one that I have along with a 1965 Impala 12 bolt....you get the drift....I could just make it cosmetic with the outside trim and use a late model crate engine, or maybe find a 961 block and round port heads to get it closer. I would not try to ever pass it as a real one, but you can't control a future owner...so how far should someone go on this? Thanks in advance....

It is your car and if you have the parts and resorces to build a clone and that is what you want to do then go for it! As for the future, that is something you cannot control. If you are honest if and when you sell it that is all that should be expected of you. Sort of like selling a gun. If the guy checks out ok to own one it is not on your shoulders to worry what he or who ever he sells it to down the line might use it for! Just do what ever is possible to let people know it is a well built clone!:thumbsup:
I do understand the concern of those with legitamate cars and what the influx of clones that are passed off as real items could possibly do to prices, but that should not be a reason to condem a guy for building a clone car of one he would not be able to afford in his lifetime!:)

You do know that it is illeagal (federal) to change vin tags don't you? OK just passed a law that makes it illeagal to chage trim tags. I'm sure that other states will follow suit.

As for "the future" - I think even <MrZ16> Mark Meekins would have a hard time building a Z-16 clone from scratch that would slip by anyone that knows much about them.

Maybe a "tribute car" :confused:

I would think that the first place folks would look would be the frame. Do you plan on using a convertible frame?

That's another thing - I could find a convertible frame as some do, but aren't they slightly different as far as the welding and being fully boxed? Probably better to stick with the frame that is with this car as the VIN would match...

Well,

IMO, if YOU aren't going to fool with the VIN tag, then I don't see a problem...

Everyone knows (or should know) that Z-16's weren't built in Fremont...

Personally, I don't have a problem with a "repro" cowl tag either, as long as it still states its a "Fremont" car... Fremont cars didn't have the option codes on the cowl tag, but I'd put them on (be a real head scrather for some).


Its really up to you, how much YOU want the car to look "stock"... Will you enjoy having a "stock" car? Or would you rather have something thats drives/handles a little better (but still has most Z16 visual clues)???



Personally, I'd look for a convertible shell, and build that into a clone...

For the money you'd have to spend to make it look like something even closely resembling a real Z16 you'd have an awful lot of money in a car that ISN'T the real thing and therefore likely wouldn't be worth on the market what you have in the thing.

It would be hard to fool anyone who knows about these cars, but some future potential buyer may not be as diligent as they should be. Is that your problem? Probably not as long as you are honest in your own dealings with the car.

In my opinion, a nicely modified Malibu SS with a big block and such is much more interesting than a clone of a legend that would have a hard time looking 100% like the real thing. That last comment isn't a remark toward your ability to build a nice car, only a comment related to how hard it would be to locate and obtain ALL the various parts to make the car a truly accurate Z16 clone. I don't think the average guy realizes just how many parts are different on a Z16 vs. a regular '65 SS car. A true Z16 frame is even different from the average convertible frame for those who know what to look for.

I don't think you'll fool people of national judging potential, the handfull of authentic Z-16 owners, or people knowledgable enough to realize the unique Z-16 only parts such as Radiator etc.

But let's face it, people with that caliber of knowledge aren't going to be impressed with 99.9% of our cars anyway.

But is that really your goal? Are you going to be showing this car on the National level?

I doubt that's the case, so if what your referring to is creating a real nice Z-16 tribute, a 50K local show winner that remains a top notch driver?

Then I'd say go for it.

I've done the same with my LS6/M-22 and you won't have to go much farther than reading the pad on the 83 Block to figure out it's not authentic.

The problem is using the rarer parts drives your build costs up and therefore may make you upsidedown on your creation.

For example I have the LS6 heads intake and carb which drives up the costs.

How many Z-16 recreations do you see out there that try to stay relatively true to form?

Sounds like a slightly expensive but interesting project if held as true to form as realistically possible.

Whenever I'm at a big show, the 'clones' and 'tributes' always catch my attention. It's like game to spot the most in-correct items on these cars. Some of them are VERY well done! There is an awesome Daytona Yellow 69 Camaro COPO in south Florida. Everything was date coded except the tires! The guy ended up selling the car for over $70K and he always touted it as a clone.

The worst 'nice' cars I've ever seen are clones or tribute cars that fall well short of their intended purpose. Aftermarket crap, even modern tires make them seem......far less than a well executed clone.

So, if you're going to do it, and I hope you do, do it well! As said above, don't worry about the car fooling anybody. A well executed clone or tribute car, even when advertised as such, it's value increases with the proportional amount of correct parts used. To me, I don't see a big difference in a restored documented original and an 'exact as possible' replica, except for retail value. I can look at two cars in equal build quality. One car has a pile of papers that make it worth a hell of a lot more than the one without.
(There IS a difference in a #1 survivor however, but that's not what we're talking about here.)

Clones and tribute cars have a growing place in the market. The REAL cars will be museum and show-only cars, while the clones will be driven and enjoyed by those who can afford a legendary muscle car as it was built and delivered. There is an increasing demand for the legends of the muscle car era. As the saying goes, "they don't make them anymore" is a true statement to an extent. This is what generates the extreme prices in rare collectables, but it also generates BUZZ when you see a duplicate, real or not.

i don't think you have anything to worry about. your car, done as close as possible to Z16 specs, will never fool anyone in the market for a real one. the frame, radiator, rear trim from a real one are probably worth $50k and i don't imagine you are talking about trying to find OEM stuff like that are you? if not, the only people your car would ever fool would be novice people like myself who aren't in the market for a $500k car. people spending a few hundred thousand tend to do their homework.